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Human level Tournament Round 2, Match 1 (Hinata Tachibana vs Yuka Minase) (Grace)

I'm very curious about how their abilities would interact...

I'm quite unsure. I tend to favour Yuka very slightly as I think that Hinata's effects are less certain and are not immediate fight-enders, while Yuka can force peace more easily, but I'll refrain from voting.

In any case, if this was a F&G thread, it'd be very interesting to think about how they'd interact. Abilities-wise, at least.
 
Hinata has probably the best chances of defeating Yuka of any character in the tournament.

Reason for that is that Perfect Beauty is a passive ability that doesn't care whether or not Hinata is caught in an illusion. Sure, Hinata will be caught but she will charm Yuka before being killed by her or anything like that.

Since Yuka's male isn't around in this fight jealousy should also not be a problem, so Perfect Beauty has a free path.

...also, thinking about it, Blessing of the Goddess of Love Max makes Hinata go nude when she loses self-control. Would that get triggered when she is caught in the illusions? Because going nude actually amplifies the effect of Perfect Beauty IIRC.
 
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Since Perfect Beauty is a passive ability, then Yuka is indeed likely to get affected by it. The profile states that, on girls, the effect isn't infatuation however, but can be an array of things which include envy. I guess it can be a positive effect, too? Also, can Hinata control what effect PB happens on girls, or is it outside her control?

If Yuka uses her power to affect Hinata's emotions/willpower to be friendly/not harm her, for example, then I see it being an incon since at that point, Hinata would do nothing to Yuka while Yuka would be under PB's effect.

However, if Yuka activates Phantasmagoria to trap Hinata in an illusion, I don't know what Hinata can do. Yuka can choose it to be a happy dream or a nightmare or anything in between of her choosing, all the while manipulating her memories and shaping that illusion based on Hinata's memories. The only way to get out is to remember/realize this is a fake world.
 
GoldenScorpions said:
Since Perfect Beauty is a passive ability, then Yuka is indeed likely to get affected by it. The profile states that, on girls, the effect isn't infatuation however, but can be an array of things which include envy. I guess it can be a positive effect, too? Also, can Hinata control what effect PB happens on girls, or is it outside her control?
Click to expand...
It's outside of her control. And yes, envy happens mostly if she steals the men of girls. Otherwise, it usually manifests in a desire to take care of the girl and to spoil her.

GoldenScorpions said:
If Yuka uses her power to affect Hinata's emotions/willpower to be friendly/not harm her, for example, then I see it being an incon since at that point, Hinata would do nothing to Yuka while Yuka would be under PB's effect.
Click to expand...
However, while Hinata is incapable of lifting the effect she causes the same wouldn't go for Yuka, right? In other words, once she has a desire to do good to Hinata she would likely lift her own attacks, no?

GoldenScorpions said:
However, if Yuka activates Phantasmagoria to trap Hinata in an illusion, I don't know what Hinata can do. Yuka can choose it to be a happy dream or a nightmare or anything in between of her choosing, all the while manipulating her memories and shaping that illusion based on Hinata's memories. The only way to get out is to remember/realize this is a fake world.
Click to expand...
Thing is, Hinata's Perfect Beauty skill will do its job even while she is caught in an illusion. As long as Yuka is charmed she will likely willingly free Hinata from the illusion.
 
DontTalkDT said:
However, while Hinata is incapable of lifting the effect she causes the same wouldn't go for Yuka, right? In other words, once she has a desire to do good to Hinata she would likely lift her own attacks, no?
Click to expand...
Yuka's effect on Hinata will subside eventually, but most likely not before a few days. In the series, she uses this effect against a trained fighter who came to kill her; as a result, they cancelled their magic, gave up and didn't return until a few days later. For that type of effect, Yuka cannot undo it.

DontTalkDT said:
Thing is, Hinata's Perfect Beauty skill will do its job even while she is caught in an illusion. As long as Yuka is charmed she will likely willingly free Hinata from the illusion.
Click to expand...
How fast does PB take effect on someone? If Yuka is charmed to the point of wanting to protect and spoil Hinata, she's just as likely to change the nature of her illusion into one shaped by Hinata's happiest memories and favourite things, so she'd be happy forever, far more than outside the illusion.
 
GoldenScorpions said:
Yuka's effect on Hinata will subside eventually, but most likely not before a few days. In the series, she uses this effect against a trained fighter who came to kill her; as a result, they cancelled their magic, gave up and didn't return until a few days later. For that type of effect, Yuka cannot undo it.
Click to expand...
Couldn't she just do a second empathic manipulation with the opposite effect?

GoldenScorpions said:
How fast does PB take effect on someone? If Yuka is charmed to the point of wanting to protect and spoil Hinata, she's just as likely to change the nature of her illusion into one shaped by Hinata's happiest memories and favourite things, so she'd be happy forever, far more than outside the illusion.
Click to expand...
By best showings? Basically instantly. It depends a little on the person, though. Like, someone with practice in resisting psychological attacks lasted better than a random bandit.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Couldn't she just do a second empathic manipulation with the opposite effect?
Click to expand...
In the scenario Yuka uses the empathic/willpower effect of her power, even after Yuka is affected by PB, her effect of "Hinata is friendly/won't harm me" doesn't obstruct or go against PB's own effect of Yuka spoiling and loving Hinata. Unless Yuka chooses her empathic effect to be something restrictive on Hinata on a daily-life scale, I don't see her casting a second effect to overwrite the first.
 
GoldenScorpions said:
In the scenario Yuka uses the empathic/willpower effect of her power, even after Yuka is affected by PB, her effect of "Hinata is friendly/won't harm me" doesn't obstruct or go against PB's own effect of Yuka spoiling and loving Hinata. Unless Yuka chooses her empathic effect to be something restrictive on Hinata on a daily-life scale, I don't see her casting a second effect to overwrite the first.
Click to expand...
What is the probability of her doing that in particular as a leading move, though?

It seems like Yuka gets an incon in the best case and a loss at the worst.
 
I agree that Yuka doesn't win this. I'm leaning towards an incon, though.

Since this is SBA, both want to defeat the other. Hinata's ability is passive anyway, but Yuka will go for her Phantasmagoria. Whether she uses the empathic or illusion variant, Hinata gets trapped, but Yuka also gets PB'd every single time and looks out for/spoils Hinata. After being PB'd, because Yuka has the means to make Hinata's life much better through her powers than plain old caretaking, she would either:
  • If she used the illusion effect, she'd change the likely-nightmare illusion to a happy one by using Hinata's memories to create it, and take care/make her happy that way.
  • If she used the empathic effect — a non-harming version being the most likely considering her personality — she'd then either leave it be because it doesn't go against PB's effect of having Yuka take care of Hinata and doesn't restrict her, or she'd activate a happy version of her illusion effect, like above.
Because of SBA, I see it more likely for Yuka to follow the first scenario than the second, but in either case, they "empathic hax each other" like Nicetoderp said. Them having knowledge on each other doesn't matter here.

I vote for inconclusive.
 
But is Yuka really the kind of person who would consider trapping someone in a happy illusion against their will as doing them something good? Has she trapped her friends and love interests in illusions for that purpose?
 
Could Hinata's Supernatural luck help her realize the illusion is an illusion or is it too good to be seen through by chance?
You mentioned one can escape from it if one realizes it's a fake world.
 
Hmmm... Hinata could beg Yuka to cancel the illusion, if she knows it is there.

But all in all, I feel like this is a 49/51 matter.
They are pretty damn even and the majority of battles would be inconclusive, but if they fought a hundred times there is a small percentage of battles where Hinata supernatural luck or just a weird move of Yuka lets Hinata win.
 
Hinata would have to somehow realize she's in an illusion.

In any case, it feels way too uncertain to say with certainty that "X wins a clear majority of times". This uncertainty, plus the characters haxxing each other, and considering their personalities, the likeliness they won't be in a state where they will harm each other for a while, makes this inconclusive, imo.
 
In many cases, even though most times will end in a draw, Hinata (barely) has a slightly higher chance with her luck that she realizes its all an illusion while for Yuka its either a draw or she willingly surrenders. Voting Hinata.
 
Having minor supernatural luck isn't reliant or consistent enough to have Hinata realize she's in an illusion. In 11eyes, the only way the other person escaped her illusion is because a) he had a power that allowed him to see through illusions, and b) Yuka allowed him to leave and she cancelled the illusion. Her power isn't something you randomly realize by chance once you're affected by it. Yuka will manipulate Hinata's memories and willpower at the moment the illusion is formed. Minor supernatural luck =/= resistance to illusions/memory manip.

Also, you just said "most times it ends in a draw". What we're looking for here is what's the most likely, which in this scenario is inconclusive.
 
I think it's 2 Hinata, 2 Incon by now?
Feel like all arguments were made, so we just need votes at this point, huh.
 
Yeah

If this ends inconclusively, is the winner decided by a coin flip or a more likely chance of winning based on the votes?
 
I'm voting inconclusive FRA.

I don't think this being a tournament changes the way of voting. Looking at what's been presented, it's way too unsure to say Hinata actually wins; they will hax each other, and Yuka doesn't seem to have the personality to let go of her hax even if she's herself haxxed.

For the sake of the tournament, Hinata can be picked for the next round out of the two, but for the sake of the match itself, regardless of tournament or no, this weighs heavily on inconclusive.
 
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