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How To Train Your Dragon 3 discussion thread and updates

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Eficiente

Eficiente

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Don't think Toothless should get resistance to poison manipulation tbh, and not sure if light manipulation is exactly right. Canonically, it just heats his scales up to become mirror like. Granted that might still cound, but it doesn't feel like it is exactly light manipulation as he's not forcing light to react to his normal scales as such, he's just changing his scales to react to light differently.
 
This thread is old but I think we may need to address that Toothless only beat the Red Death because of a similar situation to the Death Star. And there's also the fact that enough Vikings, who are around 9-C to 9-B, are able to hold Toothless in place, an 8-B would be no match for them!
 
Red Death should not be in his justification, yes. The other are mere outliers.
 
Hagane no Saiyajin said:
This thread is old but I think we may need to address that Toothless only beat the Red Death because of a similar situation to the Death Star. And there's also the fact that enough Vikings, who are around 9-C to 9-B, are able to hold Toothless in place, an 8-B would be no match for them!
Click to expand...
Except Toothless' attacks were still enough to inflict some damage on the Red Death even before the kill shot. Not to mention these same attacks would work later on his fight with the Bewilderbeest. Considering these are two of the most major fights of the series, kind of hard to call them outliers. Plus, unlike Luke, Toothless dove into the Red Death's explosion (which was much larger than the Red Death itself) to save Hiccup.

Surprised no one's brought up what Toothless does when he does the invisibility trick. Unlike the Light Fury, he doesn't heat himself up with a plasma blast. He summons lightning which he used to take down 4 dragons that were clinging to him without damaging Hiccup in the process https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rif4dE8vKUA
 
It seems Toothless couldn't do any meaningful damage to it, not did Toothless really tank any attacks.

Toothless and Hiccup sort of just won that one by abusing a weakness of the Red Death, causing one of its attacks to backfire.
 
I think Toothless's scaling should more go off of the Bewilderbeast, as he beat Drago's beast into submission without abusing any weakness

But he shouldn't scale to the Beast's ice, rather to it's physical stats
 
1) No, he only became the Alpha after beating the Bewilderbeast, who was the Alpha at that point

2) If we are distinguishing between Base Toothless and Alpha Toothless, that should also be shown on his profile
 
1) He explicitly beat the Bewilderbeast by getting a powerup, he was glowing blue and using enhanced attacks for the first time in the series when he did it

2) Yes, it should, the HtTYD profiles need some serious work and i plan on revising them at some point
 
Imma be perfectly honest ei dont know what tier he would be in base, probably somewhere around 9-A from what i remember but i need to rewatch the movies and shows to confirm it
 
I watched the 2nd movie a while back, & I'm pretty sure Alpha Mode isn't a power-up, it just allowed him to free the dragons from the Bewilderbeast's control. And he didn't even beat the Bewilderbeast, he got all the other dragons to beat it so hard that it retreated. He had a numbers advantage, so he wouldn't scale, even in his Alpha Mode.
 
IIRC, he blasted off one of its tusks, and was clearly causing it pain. He's likely not stronger than it, but still in the same ballpark. This is far more than can be said than what he was capable of earlier in the movie, or even in the first movie against a dragon I'm pretty sure isn't meant to be quite as strong as the Bewilderbeast.

Coupled with the fact he broke out of the Bewilderbeast's ice and started to glow, that seems like a pretty clear power up. Which also makes scaling a lot easier and less of a mess.
 
Even if it does make him stronger, I still wouldn't scale him to any of the larger & stronger dragons. These dragons have official stats that make them pretty easy to scale, if we start scaling Toothless to the Red Death or Bewilderbeast, it causes issues. I personally just don't see enough evidence that Toothless' Alpha Mode would scale to the Bewilderbeast, as he mostly seemed to rely on the other dragon's help just to drive it off, not even knock it out or anything, just scared him away by breaking his horn. Honestly sounds more like irl animals fighting, & the loser retreats when their horn breaks, except in this case, the winner had an army at his back. So I stand by my opinion.
 
Should we make a verse page? I think HtTYD is very self contained and has lore and a television series to boot.
 
@Vrokorta

What do you mean "official stats"? Aren't these just estimations made by Fishlegs and other characters, in-universe?

Also, several scenes earlier, this same Bewilderbeast was clashing its tusks against another Bewilderbeast, and even gored it to death. They don't seem fragile by any means, and causing the creature pain coupled with blasting one of these tusks off would seem to make Toothless at least somewhat comparable, in this state. Again, he need not be the exact same strength as the Bewilderbeast, but would need to be at least remotely comparable in order to do anything remotely close to what he did.

@Ovens

Probably, yeah.
 
The point I'm trying to make here is that Toothless had the help of of hundreds, if not thousands of dragons when he "defeated" the Bewilderbeast. And again, he didn't even kill it, he just broke a tusk, which caused it to retreat.

If you still disagree, then fine, there's nothing else I can say to convince you.
 
The same Bewilderbeast is seen worshipping Toothless among the crowd of dragons in the Hidden World on HTTYD3.

Also, Toothless made the Red Death fall over with one of his blasts. That should be calc'ed.
 
So what are the conclusions here?
 
Okay. What statistics should 8-B be replaced with?
 
Personally, I vote 9-A for the dragons until proper calculations can be created for each one. However, it is clear that most of the dragons are glass cannons, with the possible exceptions of the Bewilderbeast and Red Death
 
Okay. I think that seems fine.
 
So what are the conclusions here, and shouldn't we focus on getting them applied?
 
You can ask here for evaluations: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3349243
 
Can somebody summarise the arguments and conclusions here in an easy to understand manner?
 
Here's what I think:

Most dragons physically: 9-A

Average-Strong dragon fire breath: 8-B

Particularly strong dragon fire breath: 8-A (Nadders have notoriously hot flames, so I doubt most dragons would scale)

Strongest dragons: At least 8-A (Red Death & other strong dragons should be way above Nadders & anyone that can survive their fire breath)
 
Vrokorta seems to make sense. Has the calculation blog been evaluated and accepted by any calc group members?
 
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