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Is it treated the same as type 1?
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How does type 4 immortality work in combat?
- Thread starter The_Wright_Way
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I believe unless the opposing character can override the immortality, the character will not be able to be killed permanently.
Type 1 is just not being able to be aged to death
Type 1 is just not being able to be aged to death
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How it works is basically the person with type 4 immortality cant be killed unless the person theyre fighting is more powerful than the person who gave them the immortalityor has hax powerful enough that the person who gave them the immortality is unable to bring them back
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Would destroying the soul work in most cases?WeeklyBattles said:
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type 9 immortality or type 4 immortality
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Yeah, Type 4 immortality always confused me.
I can understand that a god can ressurect a character over and over as a form of immortality, but immortality by BEING a god? What does that entail? Do the character self-ressurect upon death or...?
I can understand that a god can ressurect a character over and over as a form of immortality, but immortality by BEING a god? What does that entail? Do the character self-ressurect upon death or...?
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yeah I also don't understand it
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That's the problem though. We can't just slap Type 4 on nearly every god that was called immortal.
If they qualify for 2, we give them 2. If they qualify for 3, we give them 3. I don't see the point in Type 4 if it's just an umbrella term for other type of immortality.
If they qualify for 2, we give them 2. If they qualify for 3, we give them 3. I don't see the point in Type 4 if it's just an umbrella term for other type of immortality.
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character that was either granted immortality by a god, or is immortal because of its hierarchical position due to godhood, so that its divine immortality is less a power, and more treated as a consequence of its state of being as a deity.
What's so difficult to understand about this? It is unlike the other forms of immortality. Type 1 is the most basic form of immortality. Your not influenced by time, you not die from old age, in other cases you cannot die from disease either. Type 4 is like Saint Seiya, immortal via Godhood, cannot be killed by anything but a higher god due the its hierarchical position. Fairly simple.
Type 9 is for unique entities who's true selves exist indepedently of any plane of existence, you can't kill them just physically because they exist spiritually/mentally on other planes. But seriously how is Type 4 type 1 (longevity) + 2 (w/o Regenerationn)? Type 4 has nothing to do with Regenerationn only Types 3 and possibly 9 do. Type 2 is surviving large amounts of physical damage. Type 4, again, is virtue of godhood or protection from a deity, surviving all forms of destruction due to their status as a god which can only be overwritten by a higher deity. They are each fundamentally different.
What's so difficult to understand about this? It is unlike the other forms of immortality. Type 1 is the most basic form of immortality. Your not influenced by time, you not die from old age, in other cases you cannot die from disease either. Type 4 is like Saint Seiya, immortal via Godhood, cannot be killed by anything but a higher god due the its hierarchical position. Fairly simple.
Type 9 is for unique entities who's true selves exist indepedently of any plane of existence, you can't kill them just physically because they exist spiritually/mentally on other planes. But seriously how is Type 4 type 1 (longevity) + 2 (w/o Regenerationn)? Type 4 has nothing to do with Regenerationn only Types 3 and possibly 9 do. Type 2 is surviving large amounts of physical damage. Type 4, again, is virtue of godhood or protection from a deity, surviving all forms of destruction due to their status as a god which can only be overwritten by a higher deity. They are each fundamentally different.
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Well, Type 4 was discussed in this thread (though not its original purpose).
As it currently stands type 4 is given for exactly what stands on the page and does not entail per default something like that only a more powerful god can override it.
There are good reasons for it only being that, which can be found in the thread.
As it currently stands type 4 is given for exactly what stands on the page and does not entail per default something like that only a more powerful god can override it.
There are good reasons for it only being that, which can be found in the thread.
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Really? I'm sorry. I was going off what Matthew Schroeder said about type 4 on my thread about Type 9 (which is now Type 10) and A6 coming up with the actual type 9 featured on the page. Because in that thread Type 4 was brought up.
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Type 4 Immortality is Immortality by virtue of Godhood, and which has a few attributes that make it different from just not aging. The most typical one is only being killed by being who cosmically outrank him.
A God with Type 4 Immortality won't have it as a power, but rather as a direct consequence of his divine status, and it typically comes coupled with other attributes that are consequence of his godhood.
Since Saint Seiya was brought up, let me elaborate on it here:
Gods are beings whose very existence is exalted above humanity. Their divinity comes from the 9th Sense, which derives from Buddhism, the 9th Consciousness one obtains upon reaching Nirvana.
Their veins run with Ichor, "divine blue blood" which has numerous properties such as healing any wound / disease, resurrecting, and bestowing immense power to those transfused with it. Which is a concept that derives from Greek Mythology
Their divine aura can automatically destroy all 5 senses and the mind of humans who witness them (Akin to Christian notions of you being blinded / erased if you see the face of God).
Their divine cosmos also gifts them with automatic Attack Reflection, the logic being that "If you fire an arrow to the heavens, it will inevitably fall down to Earth". Only someone whose power is greater than the gods' can overwrite it.
Finally, their Immortality isn't merely "I don't age, lol". It is instead treated as a transcendental state where the flow of time literally doesn't apply to them. Upon being bathed by Athena's holy Ichor, Shura was capable of enduring being erased by the space-time continuum itself, and continued to exist despite being a walking time paradox.
This is also shown in the fight between Aspros and the God of Time Kairos:
A God with Type 4 Immortality won't have it as a power, but rather as a direct consequence of his divine status, and it typically comes coupled with other attributes that are consequence of his godhood.
Since Saint Seiya was brought up, let me elaborate on it here:
Gods are beings whose very existence is exalted above humanity. Their divinity comes from the 9th Sense, which derives from Buddhism, the 9th Consciousness one obtains upon reaching Nirvana.
Their veins run with Ichor, "divine blue blood" which has numerous properties such as healing any wound / disease, resurrecting, and bestowing immense power to those transfused with it. Which is a concept that derives from Greek Mythology
Their divine aura can automatically destroy all 5 senses and the mind of humans who witness them (Akin to Christian notions of you being blinded / erased if you see the face of God).
Their divine cosmos also gifts them with automatic Attack Reflection, the logic being that "If you fire an arrow to the heavens, it will inevitably fall down to Earth". Only someone whose power is greater than the gods' can overwrite it.
Finally, their Immortality isn't merely "I don't age, lol". It is instead treated as a transcendental state where the flow of time literally doesn't apply to them. Upon being bathed by Athena's holy Ichor, Shura was capable of enduring being erased by the space-time continuum itself, and continued to exist despite being a walking time paradox.
This is also shown in the fight between Aspros and the God of Time Kairos:
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Basically, Type 4 Immortality has to be treated in-story as something that indication the hierarchical superiority of deities over mortals, and which shows greater properties than merely not aging, and which can be tied to other characteristics of divine beings.
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I've personally had a bit of a problem with type 4 immortality for a while. The problem with Type 4 immortality in my opinion, is that it is not ever that useful or applied in a vs battle
"Immortal" - doesn't die. Ok sure. But if they don't have Regenerationn (which is not specified that they have in Type 4 immortality) they can be still dismembered, pulverised, atomised, etc even if you aren't as powerful as the god giving them immortality. They would just still be "alive" sure, but its still a win via incap. Immortality via Godhood tells us literally nothing about what they are capable of "not losing the fight" to. It just tells us "oh, they won't die" and nothing more. It seems almost entirely irrelevant to have.
For instance. Three characters, Peak human. One has type 1 immortality, one has type 3 (Mid regen) and the other had type 4
They are all atomised. Who cares if the type 4 is still "alive". He's atoms, his mind is gone. Sure he might not be dead, but he sure isn't coming back, unless that is another power of his, in which case it should be treated as such rather than "Type 4 Immortality"
What I'm trying to say is that type 4 immortality is an irrelevant power to give someone. Or more accurately, its an irrelevant category, because it is simply too wide. If they are immortal because of a God and that god also lets them regen from atomisation, type 3 immortality with High regen. If they are immortal because their god just doesn't let them age, type 1 immortality.
I just cannot see a situation where "oh he has type 4 immortality" could have a different meaning than "oh he has type 1/3/5/6 immortality" depending on what his god is giving him.
As an example of a another problem with type 4 immortality Kharn. The definition of Type 4 immortality as it is applied to him, would mean you need to be 1-B just to kill him. Like, "what?". So no Horus, no Leman Russ, no Magnus the Red, no systematic orbital bombardment with a trillion planet busting thermonukes, can kill him?
"Immortal" - doesn't die. Ok sure. But if they don't have Regenerationn (which is not specified that they have in Type 4 immortality) they can be still dismembered, pulverised, atomised, etc even if you aren't as powerful as the god giving them immortality. They would just still be "alive" sure, but its still a win via incap. Immortality via Godhood tells us literally nothing about what they are capable of "not losing the fight" to. It just tells us "oh, they won't die" and nothing more. It seems almost entirely irrelevant to have.
For instance. Three characters, Peak human. One has type 1 immortality, one has type 3 (Mid regen) and the other had type 4
They are all atomised. Who cares if the type 4 is still "alive". He's atoms, his mind is gone. Sure he might not be dead, but he sure isn't coming back, unless that is another power of his, in which case it should be treated as such rather than "Type 4 Immortality"
What I'm trying to say is that type 4 immortality is an irrelevant power to give someone. Or more accurately, its an irrelevant category, because it is simply too wide. If they are immortal because of a God and that god also lets them regen from atomisation, type 3 immortality with High regen. If they are immortal because their god just doesn't let them age, type 1 immortality.
I just cannot see a situation where "oh he has type 4 immortality" could have a different meaning than "oh he has type 1/3/5/6 immortality" depending on what his god is giving him.
As an example of a another problem with type 4 immortality Kharn. The definition of Type 4 immortality as it is applied to him, would mean you need to be 1-B just to kill him. Like, "what?". So no Horus, no Leman Russ, no Magnus the Red, no systematic orbital bombardment with a trillion planet busting thermonukes, can kill him?
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By the way, I should post more scans when I get back from class. Shura literally existed as a Black Hole Information Paradox and the universe itself was actively erasing him from existence but Athena's Ichor countered it.
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I'm personally fine with the type 4 due to protection. It's the type 4 given to someone because he/she is a god that sounds strange. You would need to be stronger than the god to kill it, right? But can't this be said about any character who fights someone else?
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Well, does anybody have suggestion for a relatively brief clarifying summary explanation that can be inserted as a footnote in the Immortality page, to avoid future confusion regarding the issue?
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I just don't think that Immortality Type 4 is ever necessary. If their godhood or protection from a god makes them not age and be unable to be harmed by lesser beings, then its type 1 immortality and invulnerability. If it lets them heal from harm, then it is type 3 immortality and Regenerationn. If it makes them transcendent from space time, then it is acausality. This all applies to Matt's example above. Can't be harmed unless they have a higher divine cosmos = invulnerability. Transcendent from space-time = type 1 immortality and acausality. Disable the 6 senses of those around = mind manip and power null. Easy. We just don't need Type 4 as a class of immortality.
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You do have a point, but the problem is that if we got rid of it, we would have to rename immortality types 5 and upwards to 4 and upwards, which would result in that we would have to go through almost all pages that list immortality as a power, and adjust them. It simply is not worth the effort.
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We could at least add a note to the Immortality page saying not to add Type 4 immortality, and phase out its use so the problem does not continue, at least until a point when it is feasible to have a revision to remove it entirely.
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I suppose it can just be ignored. That works too.
So in answer to your question Wright Way - Yes. It is treated the same as type 1. If their divinity/divine blessing has some other part of it such as invulnerability or acausality, that part should be considered separately
So in answer to your question Wright Way - Yes. It is treated the same as type 1. If their divinity/divine blessing has some other part of it such as invulnerability or acausality, that part should be considered separately
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It doesn't matter. Type 3 immortality is just Type 2 + Regenerationn. Litetally. Therefore so what if Type 4 is Type 1 + invulneravility (and possibly other powers)? The arguments against Type 4 can be used against Types 2, 3, 7, and 9.
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Type 2 is just the ability to survive stuff that logically one wouldn't.
Like, say, being reduced to a head. Obviously in real life that would kill you, but if it doesn't, that's Type 2.
Like, say, being reduced to a head. Obviously in real life that would kill you, but if it doesn't, that's Type 2.
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Well, Type 1 and Longevity are different things, but yeah.
Longevity is just having an extended lifespan while still dying of old age.
Type 1 Immortality is just not aging period.
Longevity is just having an extended lifespan while still dying of old age.
Type 1 Immortality is just not aging period.
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I have added a clarifying footnote to the Immortality page.
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