Honkai Star Rail High 1-C Question

[Apeironaxim]

Multiple HSR profiles have High 1-C AP drawing from a seemingly High 1-C power source. However, I have a few questions/concerns as someone unfamiliar with the verse.

For one, why is High 1-C in their AP? From what I know of power source scaling on the site, drawing an unknown amount of power from a power source does not scale you to the full potency of that source. Again, I am unfamiliar with the setting, so an explanation would be nice.

Another is what exactly the High 1-C applies to. Yes, I know it says "via Path of X", however as someone unfamiliar with the setting this does not tell me anything. Why doesn't it tell me anything? Because there is nothing else specifically named "Path of X" in the Notable Attacks and Techniques these profiles.
Higher tiered abilities/techniques aren't uncommon, however usually a profile still has to list what that ability is. Is this Path supposed to be connected to the moves/Skills they show? Are all the damaging Skills Jing Yuan has able to deal High 1-C damage/AP via this drawing power for his Path of The Hunt? I do not know because the profile has failed to communicate what moves/techniques/Skills have their AP boosted to High 1-C.
And if they are boosted, then this contradicts the Note on them not scaling physically, or at minimum results in missing info on the profiles, as Jing Yuan appears to have multiple Skills that involve physically striking the enemy, and thus he would need to have High 1-C Striking Strength for those relevant Skills. If nothing's AP is actually boosted to High 1-C via this, and it's only for Hax potency, then there's the problem of the fact that's not how Hax potency is indexed here afaik. Hax potency does not get indexed as part of the Tier/AP unless that character has a move that causes that higher D destruction, such as EE.

These problems have left me confused as someone casually viewing the profiles, and unless there is an explanation I am missing within them, to which I will fully admit is possible (I miss the most obvious shit sometimes I swear), I think at the very least they could do with a more thorough and detailed explanation on what exactly in their kit is affected by this seeming High 1-C AP boost within each character's profile.

 

[Woomica]

Thats iirc covered here https://vsbattles.com/threads/huge-honkai-revisions.169244/
Since they made hsr and hi3 UES,all of hax can now scale tho characters,except the emanators and pathstriders who now have hax as 11D,and emanators who have powers granted directly by their respective aeons have offensive hax as 11D,thats what op argued for and go accepted

 

[Apeironaxim]

I and anyone else not familiar with the series and is just casually viewing the profiles should not be required to read an entire multi-page CRT to figure out the details regarding the specifics of character's abilities. They should be clearly explained on the profiles of the characters in question or, if failing that, a blog. Linking a CRT does nothing to adequately address the bulk of my concern regarding the ambiguity on the pages here

 

[Woomica]

I and anyone else not familiar with the series and is just casually viewing the profiles should not be required to read an entire multi-page CRT to figure out the details regarding the specifics of character's abilities. They should be clearly explained on the profiles of the characters in question or, if failing that, a blog. Linking a CRT does nothing to adequately address my concerns here

Tl dr ig:
Aeon 11D->They grant Emanators their power directly->Emanators get their AP boosted when they use powers granted by aeons->Since they are inferior to aeons in nature in only scales to hax which means only an AP boost since no defensive hax (whatever op argued for)=no 11D dura
Basically when emanator uses their power directly from their aeons they have 11D ap which is why they have an tier 1 via path of their respective aeon.

 

[GarrixianXD]

As an Emanator of Nihility, she can draw power from the Path of Nihility. Paths are stated to be congregations of Imaginary energy,[33][Translations 1] which are directly derived from the Imaginary Tree

The Paths are from the Imaginary Tree, which transcends the Sea of Quanta which is rated as Infinite 11-D. The Imaginary Tree should actually be 1-B due to being uncountably infinite times above the Sea of Quanta but I haven’t got the time to revise that part yet of now. With that in-mind, even drawing a significant small amount of power from the source counts as a High 1-C rating. After all, nothing implies that the Aeons power are uncountably greater than those of Emanators and high tier Pathstriders.

As for the movesets, it genuinely confused me as well since many of us discussed that it should only be applied to hax abilities since we haven’t seen them physically able to wield the energy of their paths, that’ll scale to their durability. I pushed it to scale to their physicals but it’s been debated upon.

So anyways, as of now, the Paths are deemed as a power source that applies to Hax abilities in default, unless the character is shown to be able to derive Paths physically to boost their raw power. It works identical to Gilgamesh’s Gae Bolg iirc, like he can draw power from that weapon that applies for his hax but it doesn’t scale to his durability. I should clarify this on the notable attacks/techniques section soon later today; I do agree the notable techniques section needs to be revised for more clarity.

Hax abilites are 11-D so listing it at the AP section is valid, not to mention all the abilities are offensive. Also, EE or destruction via hax doesn’t have to be higher dimensional to be listed on the AP.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Emanators get their AP boosted when they use powers granted by aeons

Except again, the profile does not explain by itself what falls under this umbrella, as none of the Skills in the NA/T section reference the Path of X in their descriptors, so as a casual viewer I have no idea what counts as the "Path of X", and so the profile saying "High 1-C via Path of X" does literally nothing to explain what is going on with this boost

 

[Woomica]

Except again, the profile does not explain by itself what falls under this umbrella, as none of the Skills in the NA/T section reference the Path of X in their descriptors, so as a casual viewer I have no idea what counts as the "Path of X", and so the profile saying "High 1-C via Path of X" does literally nothing to explain what is going on with this boost

Ah well that can be updated ig

 

[Apeironaxim]

So anyways, as of now, the Paths are deemed as a power source that applies to Hax abilities and all. It works identical to Gilgamesh’s Gae Bolg iirc, like he can draw power from that weapon that applies for his hax but it doesn’t scale to his durability. I should clarify this on the notable attacks/techniques section soon later today; I do agree the notable techniques section needs to be revised for more clarity.

Hax abilites are 11-D so listing it at the AP section is valid, not to mention all the abilities are offensive.

1) Do you mean Ea/Enuma Elish? Gae Bolg is Cu's thing. And again, Gil's profile explains how he's Tier 1 with Enuma Elish, and lo and behold, Enuma Elish is a thing in his NA/T by this exact name so that I can look at it and know exactly what thing in his kit has this Tier 1 AP, which very much isn't the case for how these profiles are presenting themselves. Not to mention like with someone like Jing, if his Skills really are affected by this he would have "High 1-C via Lightning-Lord" on his Striking Strength and Durability, as that appears to be a summon that physically fights others. But of course this also applies to a few others, as Black Swan appears to have an energy projectile for a Skill that has a specific name, and so at minimum the profile's AP section should mention the Skills by name that can become High 1-C AP through this boost, or at least put the relevant skills in a "Path of X" section to denote they fall under the Tier/AP section's naming convention of "High 1-C via Path of X".

2) I can't comment much because I do not know if the standards changed, but I still maintain that from my knowledge, Hax is only listed on the AP if that character specifically has a hax ability that destroys a structure of that tier. It does not get listed just because you have tier 1 mind hax or what have you. But again, this is less of a focus for me as my main concern is the current lack of information on the character's abilities and how they interact with their boosts and whatnot on the profiles as I explained above in this post and my previous posts.

 

[Vietthai96]

cause wank

 

[GarrixianXD]

1) Do you mean Ea/Enuma Elish? Gae Bolg is Cu's thing. And again, Gil's profile explains how he's Tier 1 with Enuma Elish, and lo and behold, Enuma Elish is a thing in his NA/T by this exact name so that I can look at it and know exactly what thing in his kit has this Tier 1 AP, which very much isn't the case for how these profiles are presenting themselves. Not to mention like with someone like Jing, if his Skills really are affected by this he would have "High 1-C via Lightning-Lord" on his Striking Strength and Durability, as that appears to be a summon that physically fights others. But of course this also applies to a few others, as Black Swan appears to have an energy projectile for a Skill that has a specific name, and so at minimum the profile's AP section should mention the Skills by name that can become High 1-C AP through this boost, or at least put the relevant skills in a "Path of X" section to denote they fall under the Tier/AP section's naming convention of "High 1-C via Path of X".

Yeah. NA/T section needs to be changed. I’ll do it eventually.

2) I can't comment much because I do not know if the standards changed, but I still maintain that from my knowledge, Hax is only listed on the AP is that character specifically has a hax ability that destroys a structure of that tier. It does not get listed just because you have tier 1 mind hax or what have you.

It applies to smurf hax in general; it doesn’t need to be directly shown to affect the structure.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

After all, nothing implies that the Aeons power are uncountably greater than those of Emanators and high tier Pathstriders.

To be fair, Aha, the same Aeon who granted a Noblesse Worm the power of an Emanator just for fun, also helped the Annihilation Gang and granted them power when they were going to assassinate IX by launching an assault against the Aeon of Nihility, but they were fodderized and nobody heard of these guys again despite them having been boosted by Aha, no mortal in the entire HSR's history for now was even close to an Aeon in power, not even an Emanator of any Aeon, currently, only an Aeon poses a threat to another of their kind and can kill one

 

[Georredannea15]

The Paths are from the Imaginary Tree, which transcends the Sea of Quanta which is rated as Infinite 11-D. The Imaginary Tree should actually be 1-B due to being uncountably infinite times above the Sea of Quanta but I haven’t got the time to revise that part yet of now. With that in-mind, even drawing a significant small amount of power from the source counts as a High 1-C rating. After all, nothing implies that the Aeons power are uncountably greater than those of Emanators and high tier Pathstriders.

As for the movesets, it genuinely confused me as well since many of us discussed that it should only be applied to hax abilities since we haven’t seen them physically able to wield the energy of their paths, that’ll scale to their durability. I pushed it to scale to their physicals but it’s been debated upon.

So anyways, as of now, the Paths are deemed as a power source that applies to Hax abilities in default, unless the character is shown to be able to derive Paths physically to boost their raw power. It works identical to Gilgamesh’s Gae Bolg iirc, like he can draw power from that weapon that applies for his hax but it doesn’t scale to his durability. I should clarify this on the notable attacks/techniques section soon later today; I do agree the notable techniques section needs to be revised for more clarity.

Hax abilites are 11-D so listing it at the AP section is valid, not to mention all the abilities are offensive. Also, EE or destruction via hax doesn’t have to be higher dimensional to be listed on the AP.

Btw I remember in the previous revision, only H1-C abilities/ resistance were accepted and smurf honkai is comeback.

Even if your haxs and abilities are 11-D/H-1C, this basically does not give AP scale. As I said, it was basically agreed that only haxs and skills would be H1-C, at least that's how I remember.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Btw I remember in the previous revision, only H1-C abilities/ resistance were accepted and smurf honkai is comeback.

Even if your haxs and abilities are 11-D/H-1C, this basically does not give AP scale. As I said, it was basically agreed that only haxs and skills would be H1-C, at least that's how I remember.

It doesn’t scale to physicals nonetheless.

Hax

Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore/bypass one or more of a target's statistics, rendering them irrelevant. The most common hax are the ones that ignore durability, and their scale/potency are unrelated to their users' AP & Tier, however, they can be measured with...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Smurf hax are eligible to be put on the AP section.

To be fair, Aha, the same Aeon who granted a Noblesse Worm the power of an Emanator just for fun, also helped the Annihilation Gang and granted them power when they were going to assassinate IX by launching an assault against the Aeon of Nihility, but they were fodderized and nobody heard of these guys again despite them having been boosted by Aha, no mortal in the entire HSR's history for now was even close to an Aeon in power, not even an Emanator of any Aeon, currently, only an Aeon poses a threat to another of their kind and can kill one

I mean, wouldn’t the non-Aeons just be lower than Aeons on a High 1-C scale? Aeons are like the pinnacle of their Paths; the Paths itself are High 1-C, not the Aeons.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

It doesn’t scale to physicals nonetheless.

What about Acheron? Her Unsheated Sword currently is rated as High 1-C despite being a physical weapon

 

[GarrixianXD]

What about Acheron? Her Unsheated Sword currently is rated as High 1-C despite being a physical weapon

The physicals scaling has been accepted upon by the staff as well. Just that is we who decided that most Emanators and Pathstriders only have their hax scaled. Acheron would count because she used her sword physically as a weapon.

Okay, ngl, this is confusing since we indeed also saw Jing Yuan uses his lightning powers from his Path, no?

 

[Georredannea15]

It doesn’t scale to physicals nonetheless.

Hax

Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore/bypass one or more of a target's statistics, rendering them irrelevant. The most common hax are the ones that ignore durability, and their scale/potency are unrelated to their users' AP & Tier, however, they can be measured with...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Smurf hax are eligible to be put on the AP section.

I mean, wouldn’t the non-Aeons just be lower than Aeons on a High 1-C scale? Aeons are like the pinnacle of their Paths; the Paths itself are High 1-C, not the Aeons.

So actually the "H1-C" scale that is written in the AP section is not the physical scales, only the smurf and abilities, do I understand correctly?

 

[GarrixianXD]

So actually the "H1-C" scale that is written in the AP section is not the physical scales, only the smurf and abilities, do I understand correctly?

Indeed. Except for Acheron.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

The physicals scaling has been accepted upon by the staff as well. Just that is we who decided that most Emanators and Pathstriders only have their hax scaled. Acheron would count because she used her sword physically as a weapon.

Okay, ngl, this is confusing since we indeed also saw Jing Yuan uses his lightning powers from his Path, no?

As far I remember, his Lightning-Lord was also granted to the Xianzhou Luofu's Generals, mainly Teng Xiao and Jing Yuan by Lan themselves too

 

[Apeironaxim]

So actually the "H1-C" scale that is written in the AP section is not the physical scales, only the smurf and abilities, do I understand correctly?

Attack Potency is a measure of the energy damage an attack does. So if a character is 7-A via punching, but 3-A via a laser beam special attack, the 3-A would be put into AP but not Striking Strength. So AP is still in a way a measure of "physical" power. This is why you would not put tier 2 or tier 1 via hax that have no such physical destruction tied to them, like mind hax and soul hax, but you might for things like EE and spatial manip (depending on other factors). Since they have High 1-C via Paths in their AP, the profiles do say they hit with High 1-C force via those Path abilities. Which yes, would make Jing Yuan have High 1-C Striking Strength and Durability via that big Lightning-Lord summon at the very least (assuming that's part of the Path), since that is a big summon that seems to physically hit things

 

[Georredannea15]

Attack Potency is a measure of the energy damage an attack does. So if a character is 7-A via punching, but 3-A via a laser beam special attack, the 3-A would be put into AP but not Striking Strength. So AP is still in a way a measure of "physical" power. This is why you would not put tier 2 or tier 1 via hax that have no such physical destruction tied to them, like mind hax and soul hax, but you might for things like EE and spatial manip (depending on other factors). Since they have High 1-C via Paths in their AP, the profiles do say they hit with High 1-C force via those Path abilities. Which yes, would make Jing Yuan have High 1-C Striking Strength and Durability via that big Lightning-Lord summon at the very least (assuming that's part of the Path), since that is a big summon that seems to physically hit things

The attacks, or more precisely, The attacks that highlight this abilities, can be at H1-C level or 3-A(or whatever), but durability will not be at this level, so it is important to distinguish between the two.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Theattacks, or more precisely, The attacks that highlight this abilities, can be at H1-C level or 3-A(or whatever), but durability will not be at this level, so it is important to distinguish between the two.

Yeah basically. AP is basically there to act as a sort of separation from energy of attacks the character can do physically (like punching) and other stuff that isn't that, like the difference between 7-A punching and a 3-A laser. The profiles putting the Paths at High 1-C means they are saying those abilities hit with High 1-C physical force. If a character had a Path ability that involved them physically hitting people, either punch or sword slash or whatever, then High 1-C would also apply to the Striking Strength via Paths. Which Jing Yuan's abilities seems to all be him hitting people physically with his weapons, so idk how that works out with saying the Paths are all High 1-C and the scaling, but yeah.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Attack Potency is a measure of the energy damage an attack does. So if a character is 7-A via punching, but 3-A via a laser beam special attack, the 3-A would be put into AP but not Striking Strength. So AP is still in a way a measure of "physical" power. This is why you would not put tier 2 or tier 1 via hax that have no such physical destruction tied to them, like mind hax and soul hax, but you might for things like EE and spatial manip (depending on other factors). Since they have High 1-C via Paths in their AP, the profiles do say they hit with High 1-C force via those Path abilities. Which yes, would make Jing Yuan have High 1-C Striking Strength and Durability via that big Lightning-Lord summon at the very least (assuming that's part of the Path), since that is a big summon that seems to physically hit things

The Lightning-Lord was given to Xianzhou Luofu's Generals by Lan, and if the Lightning-Lord is really High 1-C via being created by Lan and other reasons as you is implying, this would lead to the problem of Phantylia being physically High 1-C too, since Jing Yuan only defeated her while was she off-guard and said the victory would be far from certain if wasn't for Phantylia being obsessed in trying to transform him into a Voidranger

 

[Georredannea15]

Yeah basically. AP is basically there to act as a sort of separation from energy of attacks the character can do physically (like punching) and other stuff that isn't that, like the difference between 7-A punching and a 3-A laser. The profiles putting the Paths at High 1-C means they are saying those abilities hit with High 1-C physical force. If a character had a Path ability that involved them physically hitting people, either punch or sword slash or whatever, then High 1-C would also apply to the Striking Strength via Paths. Which Jing Yuan's abilities seems to all be him hitting people physically with his weapons, so idk how that works out with saying the Paths are all High 1-C and the scaling, but yeah.

But only with abilities, and that doesn't make them resistant to H1-C AP. If you get to this level with skills only and your physical capacity/resilience is not at this level, it's simply means smurf.

Like, you cannot physically harm someone with this level of physical capacity without the abilities

 

[Apeironaxim]

The Lightning-Lord was given to Xianzhou Luofu's Generals by Lan, and if the Lightning-Lord is really High 1-C via being created by Lan and other reasons as you is implying, this would lead to the problem of Phantylia being physically High 1-C too, since Jing Yuan only defeated her while was she off-guard and said the victory would be far from certain if wasn't for Phantylia being obsessed in trying to transform Jing Yuan into a Voidranger

Are you seeing my problem with the profiles now lmao. All they say is "High 1-C via Path of X", and provide no info as to what in the arsenal counts under that umbrella, as the Paths are never mentioned by name again anywhere on the profile besides Tier and AP sections. Am I left to believe all their Skills can be/are High 1-C? Well then this is the assumptions and results of that.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Are you seeing my problem with the profiles now lmao. All they say is "High 1-C via Path of X", and provide no info as to what in the arsenal counts under that umbrella, as the Paths are never mentioned by name again anywhere on the profile besides Tier and AP sections. Am I left to believe all their Skills can be/are High 1-C? Well then this is the assumptions and results of that.

Fair enough, personally I would prefer that just their haxxes were 11-D and their AP remain just 4-A as it was before, since for someone who doesn't have knowledge of the verse, this would be very confusing, even for me this is somewhat confusing to some extent

 

[Apeironaxim]

Fair enough, personally I would prefer that just their haxxes were 11-D and their AP remain just 4-A as it was before, since for someone who doesn't have knowledge of the verse, this would be very confusing, even for me this is somewhat confusing to some extent

As someone who doesn't have knowledge, it is very confusing indeed, as AP is for the physical energy-damage equivalent of an attack. And so seeing High 1-C via Paths, I then scour the profile, and don't see anything about Paths anywhere else. So then the next assumption is their special abilities/Skills being under those Paths. And then I see someone like Jing Yuan, whose Skills are all about smacking people with weapons. This would then lead me (and likely the average viewer) to assume those Skills are High 1-C AP, as if the Skills aren't the Paths the profile is talking about, what else could they be? And since he's smacking you with weapons, he should have High 1-C SS with those Skills too. But then you see he doesn't have High 1-C SS and you get even more confused at what the hell the profile is talking about.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Istg everything would’ve been good if all Pathstriders and Emanators had High 1-C scaled to physicals

Welcome to ******* hoyoverse scaling

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Istg everything would’ve been good if all Pathstriders and Emanators had High 1-C scaled to physicals

Welcome to ******* hoyoverse scaling

Can't you just allow me to remove the High 1-C scaling in AP the profiles of Jing Yuan, Aventurine, Black Swan, Acheron and Phantylia? Even for me for me at this point now is this began to become very confusing, and for a casual or average person without any knowledge of the verse, the profiles doesn't help in not explaining properly how their AP is High 1-C via certain Paths, you can just do a CRT scaling regarding the Emanators after the your CRT about upgrading the Imaginary Tree to 13-D and Sea of Quanta to 12-D ends

 

[GarrixianXD]

Can't you just allow me to remove the High 1-C scaling in AP the profiles of Jing Yuan, Aventurine, Black Swan, Acheron and Phantylia? Even for me for me at this point now is this began to become very confusing, and for a casual or average person without any knowledge of the verse, the profiles doesn't help in not explaining properly how their AP is High 1-C via certain Paths, you can just do a CRT scaling regarding the Emanators after the your CRT about upgrading the Imaginary Tree to 13-D and Sea of Quanta to 12-D ends

I'll remove the ratings.

 

[Woomica]

Istg everything would’ve been good if all Pathstriders and Emanators had High 1-C scaled to physicals

Welcome to ******* hoyoverse scaling

The way sunday summons hand of aeon to hit express in final fight for high 1C

 

[EastofEden07]

As far as I know, the 11-D that Honkai refers to is the dimension defined by super string theory, which should not be upgraded according to Vsbw's standards(maybe)

 

[GarrixianXD]

As far as I know, the 11-D that Honkai refers to is the dimension defined by super string theory, which should not be upgraded according to Vsbw's standards(maybe)

This is just horrendously false on both ways.

 

[EastofEden07]

This is just horrendously false on both ways.

Explain

 

[Woomica]

As far as I know, the 11-D that Honkai refers to is the dimension defined by super string theory, which should not be upgraded according to Vsbw's standards(maybe)

Bro read "superstring dimension" and forgot its a gamemode and has nothing to do with story

 

[GarrixianXD]

Explain

First off, the superstring theory expresses 10-dimensions. It’s the M-theory that expresses 11-dimensions. The string theories does not objectively describe the 6-7 extra-dimensions of being strictly compactified and sub-microscopically curled-up; compacification are only used in scenarios and models since we ourselves cannot perceive extra-dimensions. This wiki’s dimensional tiering system are based on the string theories (10-26 dimensions), and these theories can indeed be applied. Unless otherwise stated, the dimensions are sub-microscopically curled-up and compactified that not even ordinary humans can perceive, or barely even feel the effects of.

Also, nothing in Honkai states that the cosmology is directly based on the superstring theory.