Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

[SuperNova55555]

thats type 4 acausality 101.

Reasoning: None provided

also about the dark zone readable, logically speed of light is the limit and surpassing that violates the chain of cause and effect. its not about a limit in the actual sense (powerscaling has fried ur brains seeing the word limit and immediately thinking so) in mythus' domain that chain is non existant in first place. aka... acausality...

It is limited because that's why causality flows normally. Realspace working via normal entropy has it that the arrow of time moves in one direction towards states of greater chaos; this, then, causes the limit of speed that all things working via that same entropic system to possess. Mythus' domain, working via negentropy, does not abide by this, because states are not directed towards greater chaos (the cause of linear time), thus causality and consequently the speed of light is absolved.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Reasoning: None provided

It is limited because that's why causality flows normally. Realspace working via normal entropy has it that the arrow of time moves in one direction towards states of greater chaos; this, then, causes the limit of speed that all things working via that same entropic system to possess. Mythus' domain, working via negentropy, does not abide by this, because states are not directed towards greater chaos (the cause of linear time), thus causality and consequently the speed of light is absolved.

i... don't understand what you mean? entropy has nothing to do with light's speed. that comes from how spacetime works. causality follows the speed limit because information cannot travel faster than light. entropy is irrelevant to causality. it just gives time a direction

 

[SuperNova55555]

See how this doesn’t respond to anything?

You know Imaginary spaces allow you to move backwards in time, right? But characters were revoked both Immeasurable Speed and Acausality due to it being a property of the realm. You know that, right?

i... don't understand what you mean? entropy has nothing to do with light's speed. that comes from how spacetime works. causality follows the speed limit because information cannot travel faster than light. entropy is irrelevant to causality. it just gives time a direction

To quote the scan itself:

In THEIR domain, the causality symbolized most strongly by the constancy of the speed of light simply vanishes.

Causality is contingent on the speed of light itself. But due to abnormal entropy, this causality doesn’t function, and consequently, the limit of the speed of light doesn’t function either.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

See how this doesn’t respond to anything?

i dont have anything more to say, i explained it multiple times already. you just dont want to understand. thats fine.

due to abnormal entropy, this causality doesn’t function

causality has nothing to do with entropy.

 

[SuperNova55555]

i dont have anything more to say, i explained it multiple times already. you just dont want to understand. thats fine.

You’re oddly stubborn on not wanting to explain your points.

causality has nothing to do with entropy.

Well it sure does in HSR, it seems.

 

[Voidnether]

Aether… Ether… Aether… Ether… Aether… Ether…

Endfield Æther

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

You’re oddly stubborn on not wanting to explain your points.

occasionally. but in this case, its laid bare thoroughly. anything more would not help the case further. just make it harder to read

Well it sure does in HSR, it seems.

it does not, you are misunderstanding it

 

[SuperNova55555]

occasionally. but in this case, its laid bare thoroughly. anything more would not help the case further. just make it harder to read

Still. No. Explanation. Given. Why. Realms. Give. Acausality.

it does not, you are misunderstanding it

Let's put it another way: The Second Law of Thermodynamics applies in reverse within the Aether. The arrow of time there doesn't point toward increased entropy, but rather toward entropy decrease (or even follows a closed curve). In reality, cause precedes effect, but in the Aether, effect may precede cause. Scholars believe this symbolizes the essence of Mythus: In THEIR domain, the causality symbolized most strongly by the constancy of the speed of light simply vanishes.

Fact presented: Entropy is abnormal
Induction reached: Abnormal causality

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Still. No. Explanation. Given. Why. Realms. Give. Acausality.

which realms? i based this on what you said here about honkai worlds. my point was that this doesn't seem to be the case in hsr

this is a property that is given by the realm itself, and not something the character has outside of it

unless you meant this about mythus' realm which lacks causality?

Fact presented: Entropy is abnormal
Induction reached: Abnormal causality

The conclusion isn’t coming from entropy being abnormal since that alone wouldn’t affect causality.. itcomes from the explicit statement that effect can precede cause and that causal order breaks down in the aether zone. thats not a thermodynamics things its just a different causal structure. but yes, entropy also happens to be reversed.

 

[SuperNova55555]

which realms? i based this on what you said here about honkai worlds. my point was that this doesn't seem to be the case in hsr
unless you meant this about mythus' realm which lacks causality?

Mythus, Sea of Quanta, Imaginary Spaces etc etc

The conclusion isn’t coming from entropy being abnormal since that alone wouldn’t affect causality.. itcomes from the explicit statement that effect can precede cause and that causal order breaks down in the aether zone. thats not a thermodynamics things its just a different causal structure. but yes, entropy also happens to be reversed.

Intentionally larping the wrong interpretation of the text just for powerscale brainrot is crazy.

Shaoji according to you: Yes, right before writing that causality is abnormal in Aether, I'll write about how the movement of time there is completely different due to abnormal entropy, yes. Time and causality, hmm... totally unrelated!! Guess I'll just write these two sections of the text completely for no reason with absolutely ZERO holistic relation between the two! Causality is affected by the direction it happens in? Totally preposterous!!

 

[BoastJr]

NIHILITY Meets DEATH ! ISIS REMNANT vs Emanator of Nihility ACHERON !!!

Acheron suddenly finds herself in another world. As the all-too-familiar scent of death fills the air, she senses a powerful opponent approaching. She draws her blade and prepares for battle...only to come face to face with the Death King herself... Isis Remnant the former Despair Evil of God...

vsbattles.com

ACHERON VS ISIS VS BATTLE !

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Mythus, Sea of Quanta, Imaginary Spaces etc etc

but what i explained happens in the physical space. where acausality doesn't exist as a realm trait.

Intentionally larping the wrong interpretation of the text just for powerscale brainrot is crazy.

Shaoji according to you: Yes, right before writing that causality is abnormal in Aether, I'll write about how the movement of time there is completely different due to abnormal entropy, yes. Time and causality, hmm... totally unrelated!! Guess I'll just write these two sections of the text completely for no reason with absolutely ZERO holistic relation between the two! Causality is affected by the direction it happens in? Totally preposterous!!

u love throwing around the word larping its like candy atp... i m not interpreting anything differently and even if i did, nothing affects anything scaling-wise whatsoever.

the text lists them together because both are abnormal in the Aether and not because one directly causes the other. u can look it up man idc. unless u think physics just works entirely different in hsr.

 

[SuperNova55555]

but what i explained happens in the physical space. where acausality doesn't exist as a realm trait.

And what exactly happens in physical space again?

unless u think physics just works entirely different in hsr.

Yea?

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

And what exactly happens in physical space again?

Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

No I meant the previous one where you made a typo looks like word salad to me, not the 2 sentences one And that’s world salad to you somehow? Oh sorry, I guess I added a “Shameless, really.” at the end so it’s actually 3, and you can’t read more than two sentences.

vsbattles.com

Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

No I meant the previous one where you made a typo looks like word salad to me, not the 2 sentences one And that’s world salad to you somehow? Oh sorry, I guess I added a “Shameless, really.” at the end so it’s actually 3, and you can’t read more than two sentences.

vsbattles.com

Yea?

girl ok

 

[SuperNova55555]

And I'm asking how those are mutually exclusive with T1 -> T2. We've been over this.

girl ok

Because negentropy and internal imaginary energy is totally a real life concept

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Because negentropy and internal imaginary energy is totally a real life concept

lol. instead of saying "nvm i was wrong" ur saying "its fantasy bro". not even the text is supporting what ur saying anyway

And I'm asking how those are mutually exclusive with T1 -> T2. We've been over this.

ive no idea what u mean here. explain. we have them not being only unpredictable but also not participating in the causal system. what more do we need?

 

[SuperNova55555]

lol. instead of saying "nvm i was wrong" ur saying "its fantasy bro". not even the text is supporting what ur saying anyway

How are you not embarrassed to say this

ive no idea what u mean here. explain. we have them not being only unpredictable but also not participating in the causal system. what more do we need?

Normal causality is linear temporal progression of cause and effect. Something which you haven't show Aeons can do intrinsically

 

[Mbpoops]

How are you not embarrassed to say this


Normal causality is linear temporal progression of cause and effect. Something which you haven't show Aeons can do intrinsically

something that kevin is outside of

 

[Mbpoops]

ok but seriously why do IX shadows have nep1????

also acheron is losing her acausality type 2

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Normal causality is linear temporal progression of cause and effect. Something which you haven't show Aeons can do intrinsically

"remembrance is above causality"
"mythus' home realm and just as likely enigmata are above causality"
"whenever aeons are involved divinations, extrapolations and predictions don't work"
"the future is deterministic but when aeons are involved, it is disrupted because they add variables not derived from previous states"

"Aeons can't do this intrinsically"

also acheron is losing her acausality type 2

no she is not...

 

[Mbpoops]

no she is not...

why does acheron have acausality type 2 just for resisting precog? also the whole "acheron not being in the script" was debunked a while ago

 

[SuperNova55555]

"remembrance is above causality"

Fuli already has Type 1.

"mythus' home realm and just as likely enigmata are above causality"

Realm. I told you, but you gotta be having short-term memory or sum

"whenever aeons are involved divinations, extrapolations and predictions don't work"
"the future is deterministic but when aeons are involved, it is disrupted because they add variables not derived from previous states"

How does this relate to "linear temporal progression of cause and effect"

"Aeons can't do this intrinsically"

Brutal negative tracking bro

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

why does acheron have acausality type 2 just for resisting precog? also the whole "acheron not being in the script" was debunked a while ago

where was it debunked?

because her past is erased, even her ever existing, but she remains. and because she specifically says her blade cuts through cause and effect

 

[Mbpoops]

where was it debunked?

elio never gives the full script so acheron not being there is just elio being a jackass

because her past is erased, even her ever existing, but she remains. and because she specifically says her blade cuts through cause and effect

1. wheres the scan that says her past is erased?
2. how is she even here if she doesnt exist? (thats not acausality type 2)
3. her blade cuts through FATE not cause and effect

need scans for all of these btw

 

[SuperNova55555]

because her past is erased

How does Terminus see her while time traveling...

and because she specifically says her blade cuts through cause and effect

Isn't this js causality manip anyways. But what Poopsie said above

 

[Mbpoops]

How does Terminus see her while time traveling...

the greatest anti-feat.. terminus' existence

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Fuli already has Type 1.

needs to be 4. same for others.

Realm. I told you, but you gotta be having short-term memory or sum

its effects can be seen in the physical realm too

How does this relate to "linear temporal progression of cause and effect"

In a deterministic system every effect follows from prior causes. Aeons introduce outcomes that are not derivable from previous states those outcomes are not fully caused by prior conditions within that system meaning they disrupt the normal linear cause -> effect chain. this is as simple as it gets.

Brutal negative tracking bro

yes thats ur mantra

1. wheres the scan that says her past is erased?
2. how is she even here if she doesnt exist? (thats not acausality type 2)
3. her blade cuts through FATE not cause and effect

later my favourite little skip button abuser

 

[SuperNova55555]

needs to be 4. same for others.

No, that's just not 4. There's a reason other types exist.

its effects can be seen in the physical realm too

The abnormal causality that is intrinsic to the Aether? Enlighten me

In a deterministic system every effect follows from prior causes. Aeons introduce outcomes that are not derivable from previous states those outcomes are not fully caused by prior conditions within that system meaning they disrupt the normal linear cause -> effect chain. this is as simple as it gets.

They have causes... like do you think Qlipoth's hammer strikes without being struck or something...? It's js that their effects are completely unpredictable

 

[Mbpoops]

The abnormal causality that is intrinsic to the Aether? Enlighten me

acausality type 4 TB, silverwolf, sparkle, sampo, giovanni, etcetc

 

[Mbpoops]

i like how the trailblazer has the exact same reasoning you're trying to argue acausality type 4 for aeons yet its indexed as precognition resistance (as it should be)

 

[Mbpoops]

btw.. how does mind manipuation like work in the verse? every character seemingly has innate resistance to soul hax cause info2 slop which also covers mind manip but we see characters get mind maniped like all the time especially in 4.X, would that mean every character has layered mind manip???

 

[Voidnether]

btw.. how does mind manipuation like work in the verse? every character seemingly has innate resistance to soul hax cause info2 slop which also covers mind manip but we see characters get mind maniped like all the time especially in 4.X, would that mean every character has layered mind manip???

Yeah it's layered like HI3

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

No, that's just not 4. There's a reason other types exist.

it's textbook 4.

The abnormal causality that is intrinsic to the Aether? Enlighten me

They have causes... like do you think Qlipoth's hammer strikes without being struck or something...? It's js that their effects are completely unpredictable

ok let's get a few things straight first.

1) Is the system supposed to be predictable in principle?
2) Do the scripts and divination represent actual future outcomes or just guesses?

1. wheres the scan that says her past is erased?

Acheron: What do you mean? It's improbable that you've crossed paths with my past self... What I mean is, there is nothing left to retrace there — only Nihility. TB: I think I might've seen... someone like you. Acheron: I see... You've also had a similar experience? Then you should know that this me and your memory of me are not the same person.

Welt: Well, it was somewhat surprising. In that dream, I returned to my homeworld and reunited with my long-lost friends. And for some reason... Acheron resurfaced in my mind. Welt: When I realized that her "conclusion" was not preserved in memories, I became aware of the bitter truth.

Acheron: I'm afraid I'll forget the thirty days I spent with her, just like all the other days in my life. Most of them have already washed away with the rain, disappearing into an unseen realm.
Acheron: I fear that those vivid red memories will fade away too. There isn't much color left, and besides this faint, warm red, there's almost nothing.

Unfortunately, the world has long vanished from the astral charts. The truth of history eludes us, and the Remembrance no longer exists (about Izumo)

+ the enitre lesbian trailer with BS where she says her past doesn't exist. Because its ******* gone. lol.

how do you think she got type 2 in first place?

2. how is she even here if she doesnt exist? (thats not acausality type 2)

Facepalm cuz thats the very meaning of self-annihilators. Do you not remember the entire thing of "This Acheron lady is someone who isn't supposed to exist"?

3. her blade cuts through FATE not cause and effect

No. It's cause and effect. It's stated in her char trailer by owlbert. I think the english version uses "karma" though which is the same thing.

poops be honest. you have not read ANYTHING about her profile have you? its getting weird...

How does Terminus see her while time traveling...

Who? There's also the a mad difference between terminus themselves and elio's scripts.

 

[Voidnether]

Oh yeah not to mention Elio's script is infinite possibilities if anyone is still on that finite possibilities stuff for the Matrix of Prescience Ultima and other things

 

[SuperNova55555]

it's textbook 4.

We can remove Type 1 for that if you want. Hehe.

1) Is the system supposed to be predictable in principle?

Via Solitary Waves Theory, it depends. That's Herta's entire thingy. In some ways it's completely deterministic, and in other ways it's not.

2) Do the scripts and divination represent actual future outcomes or just guesses?

Possibilities are just ways they can see the universe to be able to unfold. I don't get the intrinsic difference here. It's only a guess insofar as they don't know which one, but even a guess is a future outcome.

 

[SuperNova55555]

• Acausality (Higher Degree of Type 4; Descenders are beings possessed of a powerful will that it rivals the entirety of the world itself, Descenders transcend all fates and laws, constantly reshaping fate in its entirety. They are referred to as "variables" exist outside the universe system. capable of transcending the physical realm and both shaping and surpassing reality, remain unable to free themselves from the shackles of fate (Musica Mundana). Descenders are entities equal to the musica mundana: the governing principle of fate that predestines and orchestrates everything within the universe.)

Oh they really be giving out anything these days

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Oh they really be giving out anything these days

they still have plot (fate) hax bcs one staff just decides to say yea its straight forward and dipped

 

[SuperNova55555]

I think honestly ya'll should js be vying to upscale Honkai vis Genshin atp we alr did it for the AP

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

We can remove Type 1 for that if you want. Hehe.

"It's always agenda with you people!!! I just want to fix profiles!!"

Via Solitary Waves Theory, it depends. That's Herta's entire thingy. In some ways it's completely deterministic, and in other ways it's not.

Possibilities are just ways they can see the universe to be able to unfold. I don't get the intrinsic difference here. It's only a guess insofar as they don't know which one, but even a guess is a future outcome.

So it is. It has to be as in a deterministic system only one future is the fixed one and the rest are hypotheticals. There's also a massive difference between actuality and possibility. So far, the script has only had 2 divergences. Once, in the irontomb situation due to the involvement of multiple aeons and second, in the phantasmoon games where Aha and Nanook (and possibly oroboros) are involved. There's also the Acheron situation in which she did not exist in the script.

HOWEVER if you insist that it is a probabillistic system (partially deterministic), knowledge, which is how things are extrapolated, is not really an issue. Keep in mind SU is made through pure extrapolations and it is capable of "divining" the past through knowledge.

Now tell me. When the system failed in those two aformentioned cases was it because it lacked information or because the outcome itself wasn't determined by prior states?

 

[Mbpoops]

+ the enitre lesbian trailer with BS where she says her past doesn't exist. Because its ******* gone. lol.

no..? it doesnt actually say that lol

those other scans dont actually prove anything either

how do you think she got type 2 in first place?

wank

Facepalm cuz thats the very meaning of self-annihilators. Do you not remember the entire thing of "This Acheron lady is someone who isn't supposed to exist"?

wheres acausality type 2 zephyro then? also terminus would like to talk

No. It's cause and effect. It's stated in her char trailer by owlbert. I think the english version uses "karma" though which is the same thing.

funny enough this contradicts your first point about her having no past cause owlbert says shes hiding it, clearly this just means her past is obscured by nihility (LIKE HOW AEON'S PASTS ARE OBSCURED BY THEIR PATH?!?!?!)

poops be honest. you have not read ANYTHING about her profile have you? its getting weird...

do you even play the game