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Hitsugaya Toshiro needs Upgrade

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@KamiYasha

In fiction everything is possible, we just need to find how to make sound that way in real world physic or is just plain fiction a word for it.
 
Inoue211 said:
how does his Shikai Hyoketsu works? Does he just need to look at something and it gets freezed to that degree? Everything he did so far(except cutting Gerard's sword) was without actively using his Zanpakuto, pretty cool actually and also shows that Kubo didn't forget that Hitsugaya's reiatsu is already cold.
Click to expand...
He did raised his hand forward when he froze Gerard's shield which should be bigger than a town meaning Hitsugaya is 7 feet tall when compared to Gerard's shield in size. ;D He can now play sports with Ichigo's sister.
 
Adult Hitsugaya's Upgrade with Bankai:

Attack potency:

At least Small Country level+ (Cleved a stronger version of Hoffnung in two , while Shikai Kenpachi could only nick the oldest version of Hoffnung), likely higher / Unknown

Durability:

Small Country level+ via power-scaling (Survived various blows from Gerard), likely higher / Unknow

I think this seems resonable, for now.

This are feats already present, the rest should stay as Unknown until next weeks chapter, to see if he get's Upgraded to Country level or not.
 
Nope, disagree. Country level easily.

Small country+ is Zaraki with his eyepatch. Gerard>Zaraki without eyepatch(we KNOW the eyepatch is a huge boost). This happens

http://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/53/3326/11.png

http://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/53/3326/121.png

And he gets his ass kicked after.

Hitsugaya fights a Gerard that got cut in half(power up) AND activated his Vollstandig(we also know Vollstandig is a huge boost), then easily cuts his sword.

http://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/53/3365/07.png


Anything less than country level is lowballing. Especially when Zaraki got country level in Bankai for fighting a much weaker Gerard
 
Appearently, it didn't matter how strong they are or how "hax" their abilities for some reason. It'll be eventually Yhwach's and only Yhwach's, should they genuinely die, Shinigami or Quincy. But maybe the death of Gerard Valkyrie was planned by somebody else and gain benefits from. So it didn't matter if they finally died off. Yhwach is the exception of their abilites' rules. That means even if Kenpachi died for real against Gerard Valkyrie, somebody else would have defeated the latter in the same battlefield anyway. But if everybody have Yhwach's soul shards, wouldn't their be their deaths were to be set on a later period on the Gotei's side?

In order words, their feats, regardless of how they achieved them and if they are a serious problem, aren't that very impressive to certain beings.
 
Inoue211 said:
Nope, disagree. Country level easily.
Small country+ is Zaraki with his eyepatch. Gerard>Zaraki without eyepatch(we KNOW the eyepatch is a huge boost). This happens

http://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/53/3326/11.png

http://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/53/3326/121.png

And he gets his ass kicked after.

Hitsugaya fights a Gerard that got cut in half(power up) AND activated his Vollstandig(we also know Vollstandig is a huge boost), then easily cuts his sword.

http://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/53/3365/07.png


Anything less than country level is lowballing. Especially when Zaraki got country level in Bankai for fighting a much weaker Gerard.
Click to expand...
likely higher / Unknow

Means that until next weeks chapters we can't be sure if he is country level or not.
 
@HokageMangaVox

But we already know he is at least country level. It makes no sense putting him lower than that just to "check", if he turns to be stronger than he gets upgraded but his showing so far is easily country level for cutting a much stronger Gerard's sword without visible effort.


So I don't agree with using Small country+ now, at all.
 
Faisal Shourov said:
Shame on Kubo for this awful writing.
Click to expand...
When an author creates a manga he doesn't think " I will make "insert name here" character from my story bigger and stronger so he can match "Godzilla" as an example and a bad one given Gerard's size. lol But my point is Bleach has always been about Powers not about power level, shiz ins't dbz.
 
Inoue211 said:
@HokageMangaVox
But we already know he is at least country level. It makes no sense putting him lower than that just to "check", if he turns to be stronger than he gets upgraded but his showing so far is easily country level for cutting a much stronger Gerard's sword without visible effort.


So I don't agree with using Small country+ now, at all.
Click to expand...
That's erroneous, Gerard is likely Country level

"Should be used to list a hypothetical statistic for a character, but inconclusive due to lack of feats or viable power-scaling. Probability of said hypothetical statistic should be favourable."

Small Country level+ seems fine for now.

 
Then Zaraki should be likely country level too.

Because if you're going to ignore the fact that Gerard used his vollstandig(on top of being cut in half) I can ignore the fact that Kenpachi used his bankai and so MAYBE he can be country level but we don't know that, right?. "Should be used to list a hypothetical statistic for a character, but inconclusive due to lack of feats or viable power-scaling. Probability of said hypothetical statistic should be favourable"

Country level Hitsugaya or downgrade Zaraki and everyone that might or might not be something.

Seems unfair that one character can easily get upgraded when another needs to be lowballed. Hitsugaya easily cut through the sword of a much stronger Gerard than the one that beat no eyepatch Kenpachi.
 
HokageMangaVox said:
Adult Hitsugaya's Upgrade with Bankai:
Attack potency:

At least Small Country level+ (Cleved a stronger version of Hoffnung in two , while Shikai Kenpachi could only nick the oldest version of Hoffnung), likely higher / Unknown

Durability:

Small Country level+ via power-scaling (Survived various blows from Gerard), likely higher / Unknow

I think this seems resonable, for now.

This are feats already present, the rest should stay as Unknown until next weeks chapter, to see if he get's Upgraded to Country level or not.
Click to expand...
What do others think about this?
 
Inoue211 said:
Then Zaraki should be likely country level too.
Because if you're going to ignore the fact that Gerard used his vollstandig(on top of being cut in half) I can ignore the fact that Kenpachi used his bankai and so MAYBE he can be country level but we don't know that.

Country level Hitsugaya or downgrade Zaraki.
Click to expand...
You have it, wrong as many others.

Either, Gerard wasn't in Vollstandig (Every Quincy has mention the word "Vollstandig" when they activate it.) or he desactivated his Vollstandig once he started fighting Adult Hitsugaya, because his wings were gone and we know from the other Quincy's that those angels wings were not there Vollstandig's, they were different once they when vollstanding and Gerard didn't had a Halo either.

I do agree that Zaraki should be likely Country level with Bankai via power-scaling or Gerard should be downgrade from Country level, he has no feats for it.
 
Huh I don't mind Hitsugaya being Small country+ if Kenpachi and Gerard get downgraded to that too. But I don't agree with Hitsugaya being small country while the others are country.

Overpowering Gerard is a feat more valid than cutting him in half, we don't know how durable Gerard is(he powers up from being injured and he's been injured a lot) but we do know how powerful(stronger than when he was capable of beating eyepatchless shikai Zaraki without much effort).


That's what I think.
 
There are not feats to put them above Ichibei and Yhwach small country level+, they should stay at small country level+

They can be in the same tier even if one is stronger than the other, i does not change a thing when we don't know how strong they really are in this case he 3 of them.

There was a calc in google + that i saw about Ichibei's palm attacks and Yhwach's normal arrows been as strong as natural disasters but that's about it.
 
Yhwach is way above small country(also hax) and Ichibei relies on hax.

Not the best example you want to give. For Yhwach Gerard and all the other strernritters are jokes. So if you're scaling this fight with "but this doesn't make sense because they can't be on Yhwach's level" then you're doing it wrong. Doesn't matter what the sternritters are Yhwach will always be higher, so you shouldn't put a limit as to how powerful they can be.
 
Well...OK. Anyway, as we finally see how Toshiro actually looks like as an adult, maybe he has more new moves he hasn't gotten to use while truly mature. Is this what Shunsui meant by surpassing him?
 
Inoue211 said:
Yhwach is way above small country(also hax) and Ichibei relies on hax.
Not the best example you want to give. For Yhwach Gerard and all the other strernritters are jokes. So if you're scaling this fight with "but this doesn't make sense because they can't be on Yhwach's level" then you're doing it wrong. Doesn't matter what the sternritters are Yhwach will always be higher, so you shouldn't put a limit as to how powerful they can be.
Click to expand...
Hax = power (reiatsu), it's the same thing in Bleach. With higher Reiatsu you can negate Hax.

Bold:

Not because of that.

Because it doesn't make sense to upgrade them to a higher level with any feats to back it up, they should stay as Small Country level until they show otherwise. Zaraki's bankai can't be measure either since Yachiru said that she only let out a bit of his true power which is? =/= feats.
 
Couldn't we scale the damage done to Hoffnung by Zaraki and Hitsugaya? Zaraki only chipped like 20 cm of the blade at most, while Hitsugaya completely cleaved it in half, and the width is like 10 to 20 m at least, if not higher. Wouldn't that mean that Hitsugaya's energy output is 50x-100x higher than Zaraki without his eyepatch and thus at least large country+, nearing continent level?
 
Dekoshu said:
Well...OK. Anyway, as we finally see how Toshiro actually looks like as an adult, maybe he has more new moves he hasn't gotten to use while truly mature. Is this what Shunsui meant by surpassing him?
Click to expand...
Perhaps. However Toshiro said he doesn't like this adult form, so the power up might be temporary
 
Tivanenk said:
Couldn't we scale the damage done to Hoffnung by Zaraki and Hitsugaya? Zaraki only chipped like 20 cm of the blade at most, while Hitsugaya completely cleaved it in half, and the width is like 10 to 20 m at least, if not higher. Wouldn't that mean that Hitsugaya's energy output is 50x-100x higher than Zaraki without his eyepatch and thus at least large country+, nearing continent level?
Click to expand...
Freezing and breaking something isn't that hard you know?
 
@Non-Bias

You don't have evidence for that and it doesn't change anything. Also it was clearly cut, it didn't "break". Just stop with the lowballing. It's a valid feat, deal with it.
 
HokageMangaVox said:
Hax = power (reiatsu), it's the same thing in Bleach. With higher Reiatsu you can negate Hax.

Bold:

Not because of that.

Because it doesn't make sense to upgrade them to a higher level with any feats to back it up, they should stay as Small Country level until they show otherwise. Zaraki's bankai can't be measure either since Yachiru said that she only let out a bit of his true power which is? =/= feats.
Click to expand...
Hax =/= power(reiatsu)

You can negate a hax like Soifon's (as Aizen did) but you can't negate a hax like Lille Barro's piercing through everything or Askin's poisoning or Pernida's nervous system controlling.

And as for Hitsugaya's level , he is beyond Country Level.
 
SeriousDude said:
HokageMangaVox said:
Hax = power (reiatsu), it's the same thing in Bleach. With higher Reiatsu you can negate Hax.

Bold:

Not because of that.

Because it doesn't make sense to upgrade them to a higher level with any feats to back it up, they should stay as Small Country level until they show otherwise. Zaraki's bankai can't be measure either since Yachiru said that she only let out a bit of his true power which is? =/= feats.
Click to expand...
Hax =/= power(reiatsu)
You can negate a hax like Soifon's (as Aizen did) but you can't negate a hax like Lille Barro's piercing through everything or Askin's poisoning or Pernida's nervous system controlling.

And as for Hitsugaya's level , he is beyond Country Level.
Click to expand...

Actually at first Askin poison is ineffective against urahara, it's started to become effective when he increase its Dose, also zaraki can(with his eyepatch) kinda fight back against Pernida hax since he not instantly being reduced to meat ball when he get hax by Pernida( he fight for enough time for mayuri to save him) and only Barro piercing hax that so far only get negated by nanao hax slaying sword.
 
Back to topic, Hitsugaya should be upgrade to At least Small Country level+, Unknown likely Country level do to:

Hitsugaya cut Hoffnung in half which is hella impressive considering Shikai Kenpachi (same guy who cut a meteor) only managed to nick the blade (with multiple tries) but Hitsugaya carved that like butter. His "HAX" only negated his "HOPE" ability thefore Hitsugaya was strong enough to overpower Gerard's reaitsu which the blade was emitting.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DGHmLSirN...EahVEHh8tCZCwSo43SmkHACCo/s16000-Ic42/019.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UF62__b0A...qNhjglRU0saqpGXHzy0b7ACCo/s16000-Ic42/009.png

Let me make it short this time, the ice slash he used carved Hoffnung straight up in half when Nozarashi could only nick a weaker form with multiple blows.

And this concludes the upgrade: Hitsugaya froze Gerard's Holy Arrow which was a "Torrent of power", Gerard's own raw power.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kgUiKwFng...Goh4FH86aECnO050J0amMQCCo/s16000-Ic42/011.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eez2T2W9s...YUiJYqJ-lYPlfXGjq4tn3QCCo/s16000-Ic42/012.png

He doesn't just have Hax but DC (Reaitsu) to back it up as well.

This next part below needs to be added to his profile, in someway, shape or form:

'"His opponents will need to deal any type of blow within 4 seconds to damage him, or kill him. Otherwise Hitsugaya will keep spamming his ice after 4 seconds like he did with Gerard 3 times in a row."


 
@HokageMangaVox I think that Small Country level seems reasonable, given the feat, but do not like the wording of your last suggested sentence. It is not matter-of-fact enough in tone.
 
Also, I still think that we should wait a few weeks until the fight is over. There is no need to rush.
 
Oh, so you have evidence that the sword's durability drops when it's frozen?


^ Nope. Likewise, you have no real proof saying that the sword is particularly very durable.


@Non-Bias

You don't have evidence for that and it doesn't change anything. Also it was clearly cut, it didn't "break". Just stop with the lowballing. It's a valid feat, deal with it.


^ No, I don't have any evidence. However, it's a common trope in manga that freezing something means that you can shatter it pretty easily, which is what I believe happened there, especially since it's impossible for Toshiro to be as physically powerful as Zaraki, the War Potential for Power.
 
And the downplaying is continue..also no real proof saying that the sword is particularly very durable? do you even read the chapter where Gerard fighting kenpachi?
 
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