Hitsugaya Toshiro needs Upgrade

[KuuIchigo]

Yes. That seems fine for base bankai Hitsugaya.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

"City level +, Likely Higher" seems more accurate since he hold the whole city + the whole bridge which is more than a city, if only someone could do a calc about it.

Edit: Minor Upgrade to base Shikai: "Town Level" via Power Scaling.

 

[LordAizenSama]

If I recall, we tend to usually not use the Plus signs on tiers without a calc to justify it.

So you know, safe lowends and stuff. I would be interested in the calc results for the City thing though.

Town level Post timeskip Shikai is also fine with me.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

I think the "+" can be added since the OBD WiKI : Has Hitsugaya Toshiro at Town level | Small city level (with Tenso Jurin)

http://www.outskirtsbattledomewiki....ised/2599-character-profile-toshiro-hitsugaya

Wiki: Tensō Jürin (Õñ®þø©Õ¥ôÞç¿, Subjugation of the Heavens): One of Hyōrinmaru's basic powers, as well as its strongest. It allows him to control the weather in the immediate vicinity, or more specifically, the water in the surrounding atmosphere. The ability is usable in both Shikai and Bankai. However, Hitsugaya states that this aspect of his powers is not fully mature, and that he doesn't like to use it in Bankai mode, as he is unsure of whether or not he could keep it from killing everyone in the vicinity.

 

[Basilisk1995]

@Aizen I asked Kav directly about + signs and he said it can be freely used with appropriate power-scaling. For ex: a lot of DBZ characters have + sign without a calculation.

Bottom line is + can be used if there is enough proof that someone is towards the high end of a tier.

 

[Clowes]

Ahh yes, I forgot this is the first time Bankai Hitsugaya has fought in this arc without being nerfed in some way. It's only natural power progression for him IMO.

I agree he should be left at city level until his feat is properly calculated.

And when it comes to his durability, while I do agree it should also be higher, from what I can see, none of Gerard's attacks has hit him directly, rather, it was the shockwave from his attacks that damaged him.

 

[LordAizenSama]

@Basilisk Ok, thanks for the heads up.

@Hokage They have no weight on our decisions here. that's not even the proposed stats you were suggesting.

Still going with the standard City level though, until that city feat says otherwise in a Calc.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

I agree he should be left at city level until his feat is properly calculated.

But the OBD wiki has him at Small city level (with Tenso Jurin) and that's from when he fought the 3 Espada Hallibel, before the 17 month time skip. Hitguaya now hold the entire city and the "bridge" that hold it together as well. That's higher than city level, it should be City level +, read what i posted above.

 

[LordAizenSama]

This has been said a few times, but wait for that feat to actually be calcuated and proven first. City level with his Bankai is a good placeholder until then.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

@Basilisk Ok, thanks for the heads up.
@Hokage They have no weight on our decisions here. that's not even the proposed stats you were suggesting.

Still going with the standard City level though, until that city feat says otherwise in a Calc.

But Hitsugaya should be scaled to small city level for been able to freeze and hold Tia Harribel in place, until Wonderwiss free her from the ice and Aizen put her out of commision. He should be Small CIty level from power scaling from her, they aren't wrong with that part.

 

[Inoue211]

@Clowes Disagree, he gets covered in that "light" and that second one razed the part where Hitsugaya was in.

Both of them were aimed at him and in both of them Gerard wanted to kill him. Again he most likely wasn't using the same power he used against Zaraki but he's been trying to kill Hitsugaya for quite a bunch of time now, not only in this chapter( http://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/53/3326/14.png ). Makes zero sense for Gerard to just keep missing all the time, hell makes zero sense for him to miss against a character that's on the ground.

 

[Clowes]

I agree it's probably higher than city level since he's holding the weight of a city and the entire expanse leading up to it with his ice, but I think it's safer to go with the low end for now.

I already made a calc request for this feat in the calc request thread.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Aizen's suggestion seems fine for the time being. You can change the character statistics if you wish.

 

[Antvasima]

As for calculation group requests, regrettably the forum thread intended for this purpose generally does not inform those subscribed to it that it is updated, so it is usually better to message the members directly.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

I think that Aizen's suggestion seems fine for the time being. You can change the character statistics if you wish.

I'll do it. Thanks, Ant.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Done.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Now with his True bankai he need be upgraded again to Country level since he one-shot Gerard Volständig sword.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Oh boy. This is going to get messy.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Why? He one-shot Gerard Volständig sword but he can't beat him alone so I think Country level is a safe bet.

 

[Sora'sOther]

How about going a lot lower then country..

 

[Primaris_Brian]

How about no, Since Gerard is Country level.

 

[Antvasima]

Let's wait until after the fight is over, so we get all of the fact first, please.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

But he's reiatsu and power has to be equal or at least around the levels of Gerard's for him to be able to do that and i believed the fight is done since his hax will negate Gerard's Miracle ability and Byakuya just blow his head off with his bankai true form Senkai.

Byakuya Country level with Senkai

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Okay I will wait, But I after the fight is over I think Hitsugaya has the potential to be country level or have Ability Negation or since I kinda greedy, both.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Well, you will have to wait 2 weeks. No chapter next week cause of golden week in Japan.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Okay I will wait, But I after the fight is over I think Hitsugaya has the potential to be country level or have Ability Negation or since I kinda greedy, both.

Actually in Bleach Hax comes along with power, since Aizen demonstrated that with Soi Feng Hax as it was no match for his Reiatsu, according to Bleach law the Hax is as strong as once power (Reitsu) as well as the weapon of each user.

About what i have bold:

Is already been added to his profile, he's ice negates abilities from been activated as he did with Gerard's "Hope " power from his sword. (Source the wiki and manga)

 

[King_of_Savages]

Why wait to upgrade him? He has shown that he is at least Small Country. Shikai Kenpachi could only chip Hoffnung, Adult Hitsugaya cleved it in 2 (Not to mention that Hitsugaya did it to a much stronger Gerard than the one Shikai Kenpachi fought). I think he should be upgraded to at least small country.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

lol its seem like my words backfire at me..

And Yeah it's like how one of the fodder Sternritter (he is so not important I forgot his name) fail to seal hax Aizen.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

lol its seem like my words backfire at me..
And Yeah it's like how one of the fodder Sternritter (he is so not important I forgot his name) fail to seal hax Aizen.

I don't know what are you referring to but if your talking about Aizen's sealed, it happen because Ichigo weaken Aizen to a level were the seal could take effect Urahara explained this to both of them. Hax and Power in Bleach are both faces of the same coin.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

lol its seem like my words backfire at me..
And Yeah it's like how one of the fodder Sternritter (he is so not important I forgot his name) fail to seal hax Aizen.

I don't know what are you referring to but if your talking about Aizen's sealed, it happen because Ichigo weaken Aizen to a level were the seal could take effect Urahara explained this to both of them. Hax and Power in Bleach are both faces of the same coin.

Not urahara, but the fodder Sternritter that tried to sealed him while he sit in his chair.

 

[Inoue211]

Toshiro country level at the very minimum. Kenpachi(small country+ without his eyepatch) fighting a weaker version of Gerard with his eyepatch released:

http://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/53/3326/11.png

http://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/53/3326/121.png

Hitsugaya casually against a much stronger version of Gerard.

http://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/53/3365/07.png

Also at least absolute 0.

http://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/53/3365/08.png

http://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/53/3365/12.png

Can freeze all matter and every function will cease to activate(even hax). Can freeze raw energy(the bow and arrow), can freeze fire and air.

And before someone says that he could've been beaten when Gerard grabbed him

http://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/53/3365/15.png

He's completely fine and just touching him froze Gerard.


I assume there's also more feats to come if Gerard survives the "decapitation" Byakuya gave him(I don't actually know if Byakuya decapitated him since we can't see), everything he did this episode was without much effort and even passives were enough to harm Miracle. The only technique he used was this Shikai Hyoketsu when we know he has others.


Also Gerard should have extreme cold resistance(to a certain degree) added to his profile if he doesn't already.

 

[Raito_Utopia]

ice of toushiro was stronger than ice of rukia ?

 

[HokageMangaVox]

lol its seem like my words backfire at me..
And Yeah it's like how one of the fodder Sternritter (he is so not important I forgot his name) fail to seal hax Aizen.

I don't know what are you referring to but if your talking about Aizen's sealed, it happen because Ichigo weaken Aizen to a level were the seal could take effect Urahara explained this to both of them. Hax and Power in Bleach are both faces of the same coin.

Not urahara, but the fodder Sternritter that tried to sealed him while he sit in his chair.

That fodder's attacks blocks the pressure points of the body where the reaitsu flows from, just how Goku's pressure points weakness works. I still did nothing he was fine after 4-5 minutes.

 

[KamiYasha]

I don't know if Hitsugaya's new "ice" is Absolute Zero.

Yes, he can freeze all matter but being capable of freezing all matter =/= freeze something at an atomic level.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

ice of toushiro was stronger than ice of rukia ?

No and Yes.

Powers work with once reiatsu if Rukia trains and masters her bankai she could possible by stronger than Hitsugaya but in the mean time she's weaker than him.

Her Bankai has no movility and can kill her if she doesn't control the temperature of it. In short for now is a single strike bankai.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

I don't know if Hitsugaya's new "ice" is Absolute Zero.
Yes, he can freeze all matter but being capable of freezing all matter =/= freeze something at an atomic level.

While I don't agreed that Hitsugaya is absolute Zero, which is to far fetch.

Isn't an atom and a molecute a unit of matter?

 

[Raito_Utopia]

i thinks freezing all matter > absolute zero

 

[Inoue211]

@Raito Utopia

I don't see why not, we've known since the beginning Hyorinmaru is the strongest Ice zanpakuto and he's way stronger than Rukia.

@Kamiyasha

But all functions ceasing to work fits, also freezing energy.


Changing topics a bit how does his Shikai Hyoketsu works? Does he just need to look at something and it gets freezed to that degree? Everything he did so far(except cutting Gerard's sword) was without actively using his Zanpakuto, pretty cool actually and also shows that Kubo didn't forget that Hitsugaya's reiatsu is already cold.

 

[KamiYasha]

>Implying as if it's possible to freeze matter.

I think i meant to said that he is capable of freezing everything (a.k.a. earth, wind, fire, an energy bow, etc)