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Hit vs Goku Black

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For reasons i guess im changing my vote from hit to black, only because we dont know if hit's killing techniques make any real or true or big difference yet
 
Just in case someone is still not convinced, if we assume

Ginyu Saga Goku = Maximum of High 5-A (Which is absolutely absurd as it would mean Goku > 1st form Frieza)

and Frieza Saga Goku = Minumum of Low 4-C+ (Which again, is a massive lowball)

The gap is approx 25x from 1 normal zenkai even under lowballed conditions
 
AnimeFanboy2916 said:
He said a million punches to destroy a universe a million times over. Basically, he's saying 1 punch = 1 universe.
Click to expand...


Which is still a massive wank to assume he can do that. The high-tiers of Dragon Ball can only throw universe level attacks with significant effort into a single attack. There's nothing to indicate that they can throw a million universe level attacks in under a second.

Also, there really should be a rank between universe level and universe level+.
 
It's called how many punches a person with mftl speed could throw out. Even using jotaro kutro speed which is way less then ssjb goku would end up at 68306250000 punches a second. Hit time stop can stop time for 0.5 (likely higher since he said he improved it further but 0.5 was the last given number) seconds.
 
The moment Hit does that he is screwed.

While Goku Black's dura is not high enough to prevent all the damage, the amount he does receive will only lead to another zenkai in which he would proceed to nearly one shot Hit.

Or you know, Goku Black temporarily resists time stop long enough to fatally would Hit.
 
I don't even know why people are bringing the whole "Hit will do 486846894648684 punches while time is stopped." when he never did anything of the sort in the series, always doing one or two moves during his Time skip. Hit can't do that flurry of a bajillion attacks during time skip, people. Move on.
 
I dunno, don't remember if he did it during the time skip. Anyways, I can see him doing a barrage, not the absurd number of attacks people are implying otherwise Goku would have been oneshotted in the first time-skip.

EDIT: As in, if we do consider Hit's speed and relate it to the ammount of actions he should be taking, he could beat Goku up for a literal eternity before he could do anything.
 
I mean, that's the possibility of the number of attacks he could do (Specifically given his speed and how many attacks he could pull off in a half-second) during the Time-Leap.
 
See the "Edit" above as for why I don't think Hit actually does that. Considering that speed, 0.5 seconds would be enough for the guy to kill Goku in so many different manners and so many times it's not even funny. XD
 
And that's what we call PIS. I can't even begin to count how many villains could have done that to Goku but didn't for whatever reason.

Besides, Hit wasn't trying to kill Goku as that was against the rules. He was trying to incapacitate him with precise blows to weak spots.
 
@FateAlbane actually Hit did perform spam, flurry attacks on Goku during Time Stop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0rweREI5XQ&t=20m25s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxg9YRLfnIw&t=0m12s

Of course during these sequences we can't see him doing millions of attacks, but that is because clearly the animators cannot draw that out. In a VS match up free from things like cinematic timing and animation limitations, these things can be considered.

Also just because Goku survived a Hit barrage via PIS, does not mean Hit cannot be attributed to having that ability. It's like saying Magolor's Universe feats don't count because PIS made Kirby beat him .
 
Conceded. But if Goku tanked it, what's stopping Black from tanking it as well since he's leagues above that Goku Hit fought?
 
Ryukama said:
@FateAlbane actually Hit did perform spam, flurry attacks on Goku during Time Stop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0rweREI5XQ&t=20m25s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxg9YRLfnIw&t=0m12s

Of course during these sequences we can't see him doing millions of attacks, but that is because clearly the animators cannot draw that out. In a VS match up free from things like cinematic timing and animation limitations, these things can be considered.

Also just because Goku survived a Hit barrage via PIS, does not mean Hit cannot be attributed to having that ability. It's like saying Magolor's Universe feats don't count because PIS made Kirby beat him .
Click to expand...


Even IF Hit can throw out millions of punches in 0.5 seconds, it doesn't mean each punch will be universe level just because he's a universe level character.
 
Yes it does goku kaio Ken times 10 is 10 times stronger (lowballing) then goku when he fought beerus. His clash with beerus would have destroyed the universe in 3 punches. 1/6 times 10 is well 1.66. Hit kept up with kaio Ken times 10 goku so each punch is universal
 
Huesito88 said:
Yes it does goku kaio Ken times 10 is 10 times stronger (lowballing) then goku when he fought beerus. His clash with beerus would have destroyed the universe in 3 punches. 1/6 times 10 is well 1.66. Hit kept up with kaio Ken times 10 goku so each punch is universal
Click to expand...


Those three punches weren't casual punches. Those where their (or at least Goku's) most powerful punches in those fights. I mean for goodness sake, they flew into each other at high speed from a distance. That's not the same as simply throwing a punch!

At the end of the day, just because a character is universal, doesn't mean every little attack they throw out is universal level. It usually means that only their best attack, or their strongest attacks are universal.
 
Characters such as Goku, Hit, GB, Zamasu, etc. are all capable of harming each other with simple strikes, barrages or during lesser squabbles.

At this point, it does not take a massive amount of effort for them to produce Universal Attack Potency and they are capable of spamming attacks of that power.

If it took them their absolute, strongest effort to do a Universe level punch and they couldn't regularly produce that AP within a normal fight (like the U6 or Goku Black fights), then they would not be able to harm each other at all.
 
FateAlbane said:
But if Goku tanked it, what's stopping Black from tanking it as well since he's leagues above that Goku Hit fought?
Click to expand...
...And then getting another Zenkai boost...?

And another after surviving the next time skip.

And another. And another, and another and so on until Hit is pretty much doomed?
 
Ryukama said:
Characters such as Goku, Hit, GB, Zamasu, etc. are all capable of harming each other with simple strikes, barrages or during lesser squabbles.
It does not take a massive amount of effort for them to produce Universal Attack Potency and they are capable of spamming attacks of that power.

If it took them full effort to do a Universe level punch and they couldn't normally produce that AP within a normal fight (like the U6 or Goku Black fights), then they would not be able to harm each other at all.
Click to expand...


That's not necessarily true. Just because you can tank a single universe level attack, doesn't mean a series of lesser attacks won't wear you down slowly over the course of a battle. The lesser attacks evetually add up if there's enough of them.

You can still harm a character with a lesser attack, even though they can endure more. Real life works that way too.
 
@MeleeniumRXJ With the levels of gaps that we are talking about, these attacks would still have to be Universe level, even if to a lesser degree. Having half a grain of sand gently land on you over and over isn't going to wear you down or penetrate your dura at all. That is essentially what gaps between Multi-Galaxy to Universe and other such tiers are like.

Also they harm each other with singluar, casual hits all the time. They don't just harm each other with damage accumulation. Which once again, a single Multi-Galaxy or lower hit would never harm someone with Universal durability.

And if anything, wouldn't your ideas of "The lesser attacks evetually add up" and "You can still harm a character with a lesser attack" only support Hit winning with a Time Stop barrage?
 
@Ryukama

There's no gap between Multi-Galaxy and Universe level. Where Multi-Galaxy ends, Universe level starts. They literally border each other in value. And if the sand is being blasted out of a sandblaster, it'll take any human's skin off.

Goku as SSJG against Beerus, threw three punches, the sum of which added up to half a universe buster (the other half being from Beerus as they both were releasing that power). Prior to throwing each punch, him and Beerus were taking a significant amount of time powering up, even spawning ki dragons one time. Those weren't just punches they through out in the middle of a scrap. They powered up significantly before throwing them. Those were among their most powerful punches in that fight.

I'm bringing up this instance because every 3A character scales off this event, and if I remember correctly, even this website only considers this event multi-galaxy level. On Goku's profile, he doesn't break 3A until Kaioken, which is a 10x multiplier. That means he was multigalaxy level before that, and still harming Hit. How does Goku go from being multi-galaxy level to being able to tank a million universe busters with Kaioken x10? That doesn't add up.
 
@The Everlasting I know.

But this is Goku Black, who became notorious for abusing it, to say he had a lesser multiplication than Ginyu Saga Goku, is absurd at best, even without the gap multiplier, it is pretty clear Goku Black grew far more than 10x stronger from SSR, or from his bout with Super Trunks
 
@Melee I am referring to the baseline or mid of Multi-Galaxy, since you seem to be implying that these characters can have punches that are entire tiers below their max power. No, someone who is 3-B or below is never harming Universe level durability. At this point we are dealing with orders of magintude. Try having the sandblaster pierce through a planet.

Also we aren't talking about the Battle of Gods Arc, this is Universe 6 and Goku Black Arc, where characters have shown capable of harming each other with casual punches. No Ki Dragons and massive power ups and such.

Plus Goku didn't just gain the 10x boost from Kaioken. He also has significant training from Whis in the hyperbolic time chamber along with gaining a brand new form greatly above SSG. We have U6 Goku without KK as "Likely 3-A" already.

Maybe in BoG it's different, but in U6 and GB arcs characters have clearly shown they do not need to exert much effort for Universe level Attack Potency and spam attacks of that power.

Once again does this mean you're vote is to Hit, since you're saying that characters with greatly weaker attacks if thrown in massive succesion can eventually wear someone down? So does this mean Hit can do that with Goku Black?
 
Ryukama said:
@Melee I am referring to the baseline of Multi-Galaxy, since you seem to be implying that these characters can have punches that are entire tiers below their max power. No, someone who is 3-B or below is never harming Universe level durability. At this point we are dealing with orders of magintude. Try having the sandblaster pierce through a planet.
Also we aren't talking about the Battle of Gods Arc, this is Universe 6 and Goku Black Arc, where characters have shown capable of harming each other with casual punches. No Ki Dragons and massive power ups and such.

Plus Goku didn't just gain the 10x boost from Kaioken. He also has significant training from Whis in the hyperbolic time chamber along with gaining a brand new form greatly above SSG. We have U6 Goku without KK as "Likely 3-A" already.

Maybe in BoG it's different, but in U6 and GB arcs characters have clearly shown they do not need to exert much effort for Universe level Attack Potency and spam attacks of that power.
Click to expand...


I'm referring whatever value falls under Multi-Galaxy level, including universe level minus 1 joule. Goku in Battle of Gods is definitely on the higher end of Multi-Galaxy level and that's with his BEST punches!

And everything scales off the Battle of Gods arc. Goku Black and Hit are only 3A because of what they scale off of in Battle of Gods. No Goku and Beerus fight means no one scales to Tier 3. Every Tier 3 character sits on this event.
 
Ryukama said:
@Melee
Once again does this mean you're vote is to Hit, since you're saying that characters with greatly weaker attacks if thrown in massive succesion can eventually wear someone down? So does this mean Hit can do that with Goku Black?
Click to expand...


The whole argument of "He can throw a million universe level punches in 0.5 sec" is predicated on this logic anyway. It implies that he needs to. As if a single universe busting punch isn't enough. He needs a million of them to wear Goku Black down.

See where I'm going with this. Either you agree with my logic, or him being able to throw a million universe busters isn't' an argument. If one isn't enough, a million isn't enough, and Goku Black definitely can tank one universe buster.
 
Okay, but once again this isn't Battle of Gods.

This is Universe 6 and Goku Black Arc. Where characters have now shown capable of casual and successive attacks with Universe level Attack Potency.

Yes Hit and Goku Black scale off of BoG, but they are vastly stronger now. Universal AP attacks are no longer a big deal in these arcs like they were in BoG.
 
Ryukama said:
Okay, but once again this isn't Battle of Gods.
This is Universe 6 and Goku Black Arc. Where characters have now shown capable of casual and successive attacks with Universe level Attack Potency.

Yes Hit and Goku Black scale off of BoG, but they are vastly stronger now. Universal AP attacks are no longer a big deal in these arcs like they were in BoG.
Click to expand...


I understand that they're a lot stronger now. What I dont' understand is how you guys are getting this utterly massive leap in power. It went from multi-galaxy level with fully charged punches, to a million universe busters per second. That leap is astronomical.
 
Well it's not uncommon for fiction to have these absurd jumps of power. The Tier 3 event in of itself is a massive one and one that'd be FAR greater than the one you're describing. And since U6 and Goku Black there has been plenty of training, massive power ups and brand new vastly greater transformations.

If you don't think Hit can throw that many punches of that power alright. But to say that DBS characters at this point need effort to throw 3-A hits or cannot spam such attacks successively at all is just false I feel, given what they have explicitly shown us.
 
Okay, I don't doubt that they can throw universe level attacks without effort. What I doubt is that they can throw a million of them per second. But I can agree that Hit can throw a million attacks in 0.5, and the sum of the total attacks will harm the 3A characters of Dragon Ball (except maybe the Destroyer Gods and the Angels).

This would harm Black. But it likely wouldn't kill him. So no, I'm not changing my vote back to Hit. I'm still inconclusive.
 
Hit maybe can perform a million punches in one time-leap but it's impossible for hit to perform a million universal punches in one time leap just because hit's punches harmed goku doesn't mean they are universal future Zamasu's punches harmed goku but they were not universal also if hit throws a million punches at black goku hit will just make black goku even stronger also black goku will not die from the million punches before he improves goku black tanked things that are way greater than a million punches an example is when he tanked a point blank range galick gun from super trunks and all what he got was a bruise
 
Well according to a part of this Goku Black is the strongest enemy the gang faced apart from Beerus... So Goku Black > Hit.

Here is its translation:

Who's the strongest?

Producer : Excluding the powerful God of Destruction Beerus, I think the strongest one is Goku Black
 
^ hit was never a villain nor a threat to the gang, tho. Btw, what is preventing hit from snapping Blacks neck (this is more like assasination).
 
@Pa Chi Goku Black's higher dura prevents him from simply snapping his neck.

Also I'm pretty the producer would count Hit.
 
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