High School Edgelord vs High-Functioning Sociopath (1-1-0)

[DeltaStriker22]

Ayanokoji Kiyotaka vs Sherlock Holmes​

Plot:
Ayanokoji and Sherlock are competing against each other in the Friendship Hide-And-Seek game from Tomodachi Game.

Team ANHS​	Team Holmes​
Suzune Horikita​	Sherlock Holmes​
Kiyotaka Ayanokoji​	Mycroft Holmes​
Ryuuen Kakeru​	Eurus Holmes​

Killing and using weapons is against the rules.
Note: The match results will only be updated on Ayanokoji and Sherlock's profiles, think of the other characters as tools equipment for the two to use.

Rules:

• Speed is equalised.
• Location: Game Venue
• No prep time. No prior knowledge.
• Current Ayanokoji. Equipment: None.
• Sherlock and team's equipment: Standard Equipment.
• All are in character.
• Team ANHS Stats:
  • Ayanokoji's AP: 13.2+++ Kilojoules
  • Ryuuen's AP: 4+ Kilojoules
  • Suzune's AP: 4 Kilojoules
• Team Holmes Stats:
  • Sherlock's AP: 14.63 Kilojoules
  • Mycroft's AP: 14.63 Kilojoules
  • Eurus's AP: 14.63 Kilojoules

Ayanokoji’s advantages:

• Solos the Team Holmes in hand-to-hand combat.
• Better Enhansed Senses. (Ayanokoji only)
• Superhuman stamina. (Ayanokoji only)
• Better Photographic Memory. (Ayanokoji only)
• Resistance to Information Analysis & Analytical Prediction. (Ayanokoji only)
• Accelerated Development and Adaptation. (Ayanokoji only)
• Better Social Influencing (Instigating Fear, Coercion, Deception)
• Better Manipulation skills (Better than Sherlock and Mycroft)

Sherlock’s advantages:

• Drastically more competent teammates.
• Better Information Analysis. (All three)
• Subsonic+ reaction speeds. (All three)
• Better Stealth Mastery. (Sherlock & Mycroft)
• Memory Manipulation. (All three)
• Mind Manipulation. (Eurus only)
• Better Social Influencing (Social Position/Reputation, Leadership, Charisma)
• Better Deduction skills (All three) & Possibly Better Manipulation skills (Eurus only)

Ayanokoji (1): @XxZetsuxX,
Sherlock (1): @ByArrow,
Inconclusive (0):

 

[RoggerReggor]

Ayanokouji vs Team Sherlock going wild

 

[Vzearr]

Ayanokouji vs Team Sherlock going wild

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Ayanokouji vs Team Sherlock going wild

I was originally gonna make it Team WR (Koji, Yagami, Ichika) vs Team Sherlock.
But 1 EG + 2 geniuses vs 1 EG + 2 gifted at best felt like an unfair advantage so I nerfed his teammates a bit.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Why is killing allowed in a game where you just have to find the leader of the opposing team ???

 

[noninho]

Peacefully playing one of Burai Kaiji games>>>>>>>>>

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I believe it's unfair to add firearms against 2 opponents who haven't showed to have op ANPR (AKA Suzune and Ryuen), they will just die really fast without Koji even being able to use them

Imo

 

[RoggerReggor]

I was originally gonna make it Team WR (Koji, Yagami, Ichika) vs Team Sherlock.
But 1 EG + 2 geniuses vs 1 EG + 2 gifted at best felt like an unfair advantage so I nerfed his teammates a bit.

Ayanokouji stupidly counters this situation with enhanced awareness either way.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Why is killing allowed in a game where you just have to find the leader of the opposing team ???

The "Both are in character but willing to kill" part just means both sherlock and koji are willing to do whatever it takes to win no matter what they have to do to the other team.

I believe it's unfair to add firearms against 2 opponents who haven't showed to have op ANPR (AKA Suzune and Ryuen), they will just die really fast without Koji even being able to use them

Imo

"Violence against the opposing team is prohibited" so they can't just start blasting Ayanokoji's team on sight, they'll lose the game if they do that.

The reason I gave them guns was to stand a chance against Ayanokoji if he manages to somehow switch sides since violence against teammates isn't against the rules.

I can remove them for John and Mary if it's still unfair but not Sherlock since firearms are a part of his standard equipment.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

The "Both are in character but willing to kill" part just means both sherlock and koji are willing to do whatever it takes to win no matter what they have to do to the other team.

Ic

"Violence against the opposing team is prohibited" so they can't just start blasting Ayanokoji's team on sight, they'll lose the game if they do that.

The reason I gave them guns was to stand a chance against Ayanokoji if he manages to somehow switch sides since violence against teammates isn't against the rules.

Alright then

I can remove them for John and Mary if it's still unfair but not Sherlock since firearms are a part of his standard equipment.

Sure

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Ayanokouji stupidly counters this situation with enhanced awareness either way.

Given how Koji can sense presences really well, I would give this to Koji

Unless Sherlock has some really op EU/cold reading and manages to find Ryuen and Suzune haha

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Who would each side pick as their 'hider' and could that have any effect on the result of the match?

 

[ByArrow]

As far as I know, characters without a profile are not allowed to be used in matches.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Crazy how it's basically 72 m/s Ayanokouji which is equalized to Housen. Housen is sub-Ichika if we go by narratives which are absolute.

Ayanokouji scales to around 5x Ichika by Y2V7 statement in overall abilities. You get at least 360 m/s Ayanokouji and that's without a stupid scale I still haven't posted on VSBW.

This is like a speed stomp as well. You cannot give Ayanokouji a speed advantage and expect him to lose in any chance. Giving him speed advantage in a situation where combat is probable is kind of crazy.

Someday or the other, it's inevitable that someone will do this upgrade for COTE, and it cannot even have any solid disagreements.

Ryuuen is crazily good in hiding, and we know that from the island exam because nobody knew that he was still on the island.

And even Yuuichi exploited these rules so well that Ayanokouji will only do better (stomps Yuuichi in trap setting and analysis).

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Ayanokouji stupidly counters this situation with enhanced awareness either way.

I'd say Sherlock's info analysis is equally broken in this situation.
He could probably walk around the forest and find where Team Koji's hiding spot is because he saw some "leaves out of place" or something ludicrous like that.

An advantage Koji will have over this is that he'll be able to search through the forest faster due to his speed and stamina advantage.

Crazy how it's basically 72 m/s Ayanokouji which is equalized to Housen. Housen is sub-Ichika if we go by narratives which are absolute.

Ayanokouji scales to around 5x Ichika by Y2V7 statement in overall abilities. You get at least 360 m/s Ayanokouji and that's without a stupid scale I still haven't posted on VSBW.

This is like a speed stomp as well. You cannot give Ayanokouji a speed advantage and expect him to lose in any chance. Giving him speed advantage in a situation where combat is probable is kind of crazy.

If speed is equalised it becomes a stomp in Sherlock's favour.
Since standard equipment can't be restricted, sherlock will have his firearms and a reaction speed advantage because only combat speed gets equalised.
Ayanokoji will become Peak Human speed against someone who has Subsonic+ reactions and a gun. That's GG.

As far as I know, characters without a profile are not allowed to be used in matches.

Should I change team Sherlock to Sherlock, Mycroft and Eurus?

 

[ByArrow]

Should I change team Sherlock to Sherlock, Mycroft and Eurus?

Yes

 

[DeltaStriker22]

New rules have been updated on the profile.
Should have used these in the first place

 

[ByArrow]

Eurus, too, scales to 14.63 Kilojoules.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

According to the game's rules each team must have one hider and two seekers.
Ryuuen has good feats for hiding so Ayanokoji is likely to pick or rather make team leader Horikita him as their hider.
Sherlock is likely to keep Eurus on the team due to her mind manipulation so his team's hider will most likely be Mycroft.

Ayanokoji will likely start by putting Horikita the lime light, taking attention off of him so he can act freely from the shadows like he usually does.
This however will not work on the Holmes siblings due to their insane Information analysis. I doubt it'd be hard for them to figure out that Ayanokoji is the only one to watch out for on Team ANHS.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Eurus, too, scales to 14.63 Kilojoules.

Her profile has her AP at Street Level unlike Sherlock and Mycroft who's profiles state Street Level+.
Edit: Nvm, it doesn't anymore

 

[ByArrow]

Her profile has her AP at Street Level unlike Sherlock and Mycroft who's profiles state Street Level+.

I missed it when I was updating the profiles. I've corrected it now.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I'd say Sherlock's info analysis is equally broken in this situation.
He could probably walk around the forest and find where Team Koji's hiding spot is because he saw some "leaves out of place" or something ludicrous like that.

An advantage Koji will have over this is that he'll be able to search through the forest faster due to his speed and stamina advantage.

No, Ayanokouji negs this Information Analysis.

He has displayed better feats than this in 2nd Year Island Exam, so even if not "neg" Sherlock's IA as a whole, he would still be able to counter it because he himself possesses a level of it himself.

Either way, Sherlock will only be able to know about their presences by analysis, which is just about a level of decimation because Ayanokouji can just sense presences in the 3D space around him.

Not to mention, Ayanokouji has PMH VSI, he can just reimagine whatever he wants, even any of them appearing his field of view from afar would be as good as just dead.

If speed is equalised it becomes a stomp in Sherlock's favour.
Since standard equipment can't be restricted, sherlock will have his firearms and a reaction speed advantage because only combat speed gets equalised.
Ayanokoji will become Peak Human speed against someone who has Subsonic+ reactions and a gun. That's GG.

I don't think so honestly, Ayanokouji has ANPR, and I am not even interested in how Ayanokouji can predict gun trajectories anymore, since I already have done it many times. Y2V12.5 even adds a supporting statement for him being able to predict bullet trajectories.

Should I change team Sherlock to Sherlock, Mycroft and Eurus?

Seems like a good team ngl.

Give Ichika and Takuya to Ayanokouji, and give both of them prior knowledge, so both of them will also be able to predict trajectories, since Ichika in Y2V6 can do pattern reading and has broken intuition, and Takuya just would upscale it, that being a physical characteristic.

Edit: Wait, not Takuya, Takuya might be a stomp as well. I would say, give Sudou to Ayanokouji. It is just a Ryuuen without brains.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Give Ichika and Takuya to Ayanokouji, and give both of them prior knowledge, so both of them will also be able to predict trajectories, since Ichika in Y2V6 can do pattern reading and has broken intuition, and Takuya just would upscale it, that being a physical characteristic.

Edit: Wait, not Takuya, Takuya might be a stomp as well. I would say, give Sudou to Ayanokouji. It is just a Ryuuen without brains.

Giving Ayanokoji someone competent like Ichika will be game over for the Holmes
Let's just leave it at Ryuuen and Horikita.

Besides, I'd rather not change the rules any further.
With the new rules the thread has become a completely different match from what it initially was lol.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Giving Ayanokoji someone competent like Ichika will be game over for the Holmes
Let's just leave it at Ryuuen and Horikita.

Besides, I'd rather not change the rules any further.
With the new rules the thread has become a completely different match from what it initially was lol.

Adding Ichika doesn't do anything either, it'd still be pretty much a team with 99% getting carried by Ayanokouji in some way or the other.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I would lean over Koji

My reason for this is because solely for the fact that while Koji stealth mastery is kinda inferior to holmes, Holmes does not have presence sensing like Koji does, The moment Koji feels someone's presence getting nearby, He can just flee without being sensed and stuff

If Koji were the one trying to find people, Then, given on how broken his EU, Psycho-Analysis and Foresight is, where he can predict peoples actions and know what they did without ever meeting them (Takuya and Ryuen) as well as predicting their thoughts, actions etc etc

Not only that, but Koji can cover alot more space via speed as well he can also feel presences which kinda counters Holmes stealth mastery as he cannot kill his "presence" like Koji did, and even then, Ichika who also has good stealth mastery was instantly found by koji easily

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Oh wait, Speed is equalized, nevermind about the speed part

But i still lean on Koji for now

 

[RoggerReggor]

Better Information Analysis. (All three)​

Feats?

 

[ByArrow]

Feats?

Look at the intelligence part of Sherlock. Everything under deduction is IA.

 

[ByArrow]

I would lean over Koji

My reason for this is because solely for the fact that while Koji stealth mastery is kinda inferior to holmes, Holmes does not have presence sensing like Koji does, The moment Koji feels someone's presence getting nearby, He can just flee without being sensed and stuff

Ayanokouji's sense of presence is not listed as an enhanced sense, just awareness. Just like Sherlock. And Sherlock's Awareness is higher. And Sherlock and his team have a reaction speed advantage here. So Sherlock's team will notice and react first. Even if Ayanokouji removes/hides his presence, the smallest leaves he moves as he walks are noticed by Sherlock and his team.

If Koji were the one trying to find people, Then, given on how broken his EU, Psycho-Analysis and Foresight is, where he can predict peoples actions and know what they did without ever meeting them (Takuya and Ryuen) as well as predicting their thoughts, actions etc etc

Sherlock and his team can predict these things at a more advanced level, for example up to 2 weeks into the future. And only Sherlock Eurus and Mycroft can reach far beyond that.

I looked at Ayanokouji's resistances, the resistance justification for Analytical Prediction is quite weak and the character he resists doesn't even have this ability in his profile. Sherlock's and others' Analytical Prediction exceeds Ayanokouji's resistance.

Information Analysis is not listed as a ability on Tsukishiro's profile either. And it's only listed as possibly genius. Based on this, I'm confident that Sherlock and his team will be able to analyze Ayanokouji's movements with far far over 1% accuracy.

I vote Sherlock's Team

 

[ByArrow]

No, Ayanokouji negs this Information Analysis.

Ayanokouji does not negate Information Analysis, he resists. These are two different things. And I answered this in my comment above.

He has displayed better feats than this in 2nd Year Island Exam, so even if not "neg" Sherlock's IA as a whole, he would still be able to counter it because he himself possesses a level of it himself.

Which feat? Even if he resists Sherlock, he'll be completely overcome by Eurus.

Either way, Sherlock will only be able to know about their presences by analysis, which is just about a level of decimation because Ayanokouji can just sense presences in the 3D space around him.

There's no extra range in the profile, so it's normal range. And since Sherlock and his team detect through analysis and have the advantage of reaction, even if Ayanokouji erases his presence, he will be detected the moment he moves things around him.

Not to mention, Ayanokouji has PMH VSI, he can just reimagine whatever he wants, even any of them appearing his field of view from afar would be as good as just dead.

I don't know what you mean.

As I said, Sherlock and his team can overcome Ayanokouji's resistance and further reduce their chances of losing with the Mind Palace.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Ayanokouji's sense of presence is not listed as an enhanced sense, just awareness. Just like Sherlock. And Sherlock's Awareness is higher. And Sherlock and his team have a reaction speed advantage here. So Sherlock's team will notice and react first. Even if Ayanokouji removes/hides his presence, the smallest leaves he moves as he walks are noticed by Sherlock and his team.

You do know sensing presences is enhanced awareness right?

Sherlock does not have presence sensing so no, He is not better here at all

Sherlock and his team can predict these things at a more advanced level, for example up to 2 weeks into the future. And only Sherlock Eurus and Mycroft can reach far beyond that.

Koji who predicted Ryuens actions, thoughts, strategys etc etc for months

I looked at Ayanokouji's resistances, the resistance justification for Analytical Prediction is quite weak and the character he resists doesn't even have this ability in his profile. Sherlock's and others' Analytical Prediction exceeds Ayanokouji's resistance.

ANPR is for combat

Information Analysis is not listed as a ability on Tsukishiro's profile either. And it's only listed as possibly genius. Based on this, I'm confident that Sherlock and his team will be able to analyze Ayanokouji's movements with far far over 1% accuracy.

Because his profile is outdated? Even if Koji is legit feeding Sherlock and the others false habits, timing and other stuff

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Not to mention, Koji has perfect memory hax as well

Anything he sees, feels or hears will never be forgotten, So he can also replicate this "noticing even the smallest leave leaving its original position" stuff

And his presence sensing has a good amount of range, It's not sensing when they are extremely close to him

For example Koji sensed Kushida who was stalking him from a fair distance whereas he also sensed Ichika who was even further away from kushida IIRC

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Ayanokouji's sense of presence is not listed as an enhanced sense, just awareness. Just like Sherlock. And Sherlock's Awareness is higher. And Sherlock and his team have a reaction speed advantage here. So Sherlock's team will notice and react first. Even if Ayanokouji removes/hides his presence, the smallest leaves he moves as he walks are noticed by Sherlock and his team.

No. Ayanokoji's ES is way better than anything in the Sherlock verse.

His enhanced awareness literally allows him to sense presence of people around him, if someone is around him he'll just feel their presence and know exactly where the person is (like how he knew Kei was hiding in the bushes while spying on him) even if he can't see the person.

The only weakness of his ES is that he can only feel the presence of people around him, the ES doesn't tell him who the presence is. To find out who the presence is he needs to look at them.

Sherlock and his team can predict these things at a more advanced level, for example up to 2 weeks into the future. And only Sherlock Eurus and Mycroft can reach far beyond that.

Ayanokoji has perfectly predicted and manipulated Ryuuen's thoughts for a period spanning over multiple months. No one in Sherlock has shown that level of prediction ability.

Which feat? Even if he resists Sherlock, he'll be completely overcome by Eurus.

Are you talking about mind manipulation? How fast can Eurus reprogram someone?

There's no extra range in the profile, so it's normal range. And since Sherlock and his team detect through analysis and have the advantage of reaction, even if Ayanokouji erases his presence, he will be detected the moment he moves things around him.

I'm not sure how this helps. I doubt detecting Ayanokoji would be of any use since he's a seeker, team sherlock needs to find the hider of team ANHS.

Game Rules

As I said, Sherlock and his team can overcome Ayanokouji's resistance and further reduce their chances of losing with the Mind Palace.

How does the mind palace help?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I vote Koji now btw

Not only via my reasons

But friendship hide and seek more so requires, Strategy, Planning, Tactics, Methods and EQ (i believe), Which koji demolishes everyone except mabye Eurus on EQ

 

[DeltaStriker22]

I vote Sherlock's Team

Counted.

I vote Koji now btw

Counted.

 

[Doggo]

Ngl I feel like Kiyo will struggle here. He is carrying the whole team, as Suzune and Ryueen are horribly outclassed.

While he outsmarts them individually (hard diff btw), he loses to them as a team.

Takuya and Ichika would make this fairer imo.

 

[Flashlight237]

Another thread of these two? I'm getting this kinda of vibe:

 

[RoggerReggor]

Look at the intelligence part of Sherlock. Everything under deduction is IA.

Deduction is not entirely IA, only a part of it.

Deduction is General Observations -> Understanding trends and information with already available knowledge -> Forming specific information -> Forming Conclusions, while Information Analysis comes under all the kinds of reasoning,

Three types of reasoning exist, I will just give an example:

This will probably have no effect on the debate.

But it is true that a lot of VSBW profiles just suck because all of them have Deductive Reasoning as synonymous with Logical Reasoning, which is a huge problem, but doesn't concern it mainly, so it's fine, I guess.
For Information Analysis, I will use Ayanokouji's feats from the latest volume, which not only give the scale of the minute details he sees but also shows the depth of analysis he can perform on things around him.

Ayanokouji can analyze physical characteristics of a person at this level, already puts his Information Analysis at an extreme level without needing any kind of analysis or explanation.

Ayanokouji does not negate Information Analysis, he resists. These are two different things. And I answered this in my comment above.

Negs = Beats and not negate/resist, I don't mean that.

It's like a "goku negs saitama" kind of statement.

Which feat? Even if he resists Sherlock, he'll be completely overcome by Eurus.

Footprints analysis is something which Kiyotaka does it like it's every Monday.

(Source: Y2V4)

There are like 5 more feats from the same volume, but I guess this will be enough. Kiyotaka analyzes footprints to the point where he can consciously understand the measurements of things and pretty much forms exact analysis of it.

There's no extra range in the profile, so it's normal range. And since Sherlock and his team detect through analysis and have the advantage of reaction, even if Ayanokouji erases his presence, he will be detected the moment he moves things around him.

They cannot detect through analysis; Ayanokouji literally has enough intelligence to not leave traces of himself.

I don't know what you mean.

As I said, Sherlock and his team can overcome Ayanokouji's resistance and further reduce their chances of losing with the Mind Palace.

Kiyotaka bullies those with Memory Palaces.

Quoting from @TheHuntsman1001 explanation on Kiyotaka's Perfect Memory. You can also refer to the memory feats on his profile, which widely give the scans for it and TheHuntsman1001 just breaks it down.

Even though it is included in the one typed above, Kiyotaka actually visually stores all the information that enters in his field of view, which spans to about 150 degrees in a normal span for a normal individual in a 3-dimensional space. Ayanokouji doesn't take notes of things or doesn't need to consciously process it, he can basically revisit his memories, giving Kiyotaka a much better head-start to use all his brain into analysis formulations. Not only this, but Sherlock also doesn't process everything at once, and even his profile implicitly mentions "at a glance" which basically means that he needs to look carefully at things, unlike Kiyotaka who just unconsciously gets almost all of the things stored to his memory.