High-Godly regeneration problem

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I mean, when you die and your history is erased, everyone forgets you ever existed to begin with. But once you regenerate, everything about you regenerates. Also, I said this before; some regenerations may have weaknesses and not everyone with higher up or god tier levels of regeneration happen instantly. And some of them can only regenerate if their destructive level is that high.

 

[Eganergo]

I mean, when you die and your history is erased, everyone forgets you ever existed to begin with

Is this the default assumption? I know some verse explain this kind of thing, but not most of them. Regardless the time of regeneration, people apparantly still remember the erased character.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, but I already explained the different levels of EE; having body, mind, and soul erased vs being completely erased from the pages of history.

 

[Eganergo]

Alright then.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it seems like we should likely keep our standards as they are then. I still think that erasure from history is considerably less impressive than complete metaphysical destruction though.

 

[Antvasima]

I'd hope that there's at least some people still around who participating in the old threads.

Or at the absolute worst, we could look through the old threads and see if the points brought up now were considered back then.

I think you're grossly overstating things by saying that no large changes will ever happen again. We have many experts on almost every other subject.

Agreed. We have to wait until we get a bunch of sufficiently knowledgeable people helping us out again. Otherwise we will almost inevitably cause a lot of harm to our wiki, given that we had considerably more informed discussions to decide our standards reviously.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Well, it seems like we should likely keep our standards as they are then. I still think that erasure from history is considerably less impressive than complete metaphysical destruction though.

I'm pretty sure everyone here agrees that not all cases of regenerating from history erasure should give High-Godly and that certain standards should be met. At that point it's very similar to other baseline cases of High-Godly.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So do some of you have suggestions for how to clarify this part?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Just a question that is not that related, but if a character's concept gets erased, but that said character isn't erased from history, would regenerating from that considered High-Godly or not?

 

[Antvasima]

Probably not. High-Godly means recovering from absolute destruction.

 

[Zencha9]

i know ant isn't interested in vs debates but from what i've seen in some vs battles high godly via history destruction is considred way less impressive than high godly via complete concept destruction hope this helps

 

[Elizhaa]

Probably not. High-Godly means recovering from absolute destruction.

I think it was agreed that the case would depend on the cosmology. In some cosmologies, conceptual destruction is absolute destruction so the regeneration from the destruction there is High-Godly.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, what was asked is if it would count as High-Godly if the character's history would remain despite being conceptually erased. I do not think that it would qualify.

 

[Overlord775]

it's a case-by-case thing, some times it does, but the majourity of the time conceptual erasure doesn't result in the character actions being completly removed

 

[Wokistan]

Most of the concept EE's I'm familiar with don't exactly show effects indicating that the character's been retroactively removed for having their concept destroyed. If we were to assume that by default, I'd think we should have some sort of proof that a majority of concept EEs display such properties.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Another question if you don't mind me asking, but if a character's concept gets erased, yet there are still memories of him, and they aren't erased from history, what's the difference between this and just physical and spiritual destruction?

 

[Eganergo]

Conceptual destruction shouldn't rely on time, unlike history. When there is a place that have no concept of time, doesn't mean people there will forget or don't know anything about time, time just doesn't exist entirely. Conceptual destruction may cause paradox but not a must as concept is already abstract and fundamental in nature. However, proving history destruction is hard without proof (unless you want to make everything default with little statement). Concept isn't bound by time-space in the first place. Otherwise, we need to prove the same thing for conceptual manipulation as a whole.

Anyway, that's just my take on this.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, what was asked is if it would count as High-Godly if the character's history would remain despite being conceptually erased. I do not think that it would qualify.

I worded my sentences poorly previously. I have reworded them for clarity.

Basically, recovering absolute erasure and annihilation in some manner would be a necessary requirement, so if a character temporally remains, I do not think that would be the case.

 

[Antvasima]

I'm pretty sure everyone here agrees that not all cases of regenerating from history erasure should give High-Godly and that certain standards should be met. At that point it's very similar to other baseline cases of High-Godly.

Anyway, does somebody experienced have any suggestions for how to better clarify this?

 

[Eganergo]

From the discussion, it seems that "being erased from history" become the very basic requirements for the other type of erasure (concept, information, etc), but statement of "being erased from history/timeline" alone is not enough for high-godly without the other type.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I would prefer if we could work out some kind of informed solution based on that, but am not sure if the consensus here would allow it, or if we are knowledgeable enough to properly do so.

 

[Antoniofer]

Beyond loosely definitions like "erased through history" or "conceptual erasure" (cuz we do not rate based in names), what would be the consequences of being erased to the point that High-Godly regen will be required to come back?

 

[Antvasima]

Please elaborate regarding what you mean.

 

[Antoniofer]

People bring up that high-godly is regeneration from conceptual erasure (or good, it also cover this), but what does it involve being erased at this level? It's important to notice that simple being called "conceptual" isn't enough to qualify as such, if it do not cover our requirements.

 

[Antvasima]

Some elaboration about this within the page might be a good idea, yes.

Do you have any suggestions for members that are knowledgeable enough to call for input help about this?

 

[Antoniofer]

If there were knowledgeable members about it we wouldn't have this discussion for the 3rd time.

If simply coming back from temporal erasure is Mid-Godly + Acausality, we should find, once again, what requeriments for High-godly (like, what are the consequences of being erased at this level), if we can't find any, then I believe High-Godly will be no more.

 

[Overlord775]

People bring up that high-godly is regeneration from conceptual erasure (or good, it also cover this), but what does it involve being erased at this level? It's important to notice that simple being called "conceptual" isn't enough to qualify as such, if it do not cover our requirements.

i'm pretty sure that we currently treat coming back from any kind of concept erasure as High-godly

 

[Antoniofer]

And what are the consequences of that kind of erasure? People say conceptual erasure but do not seems to agree what are the consequences of that erasure.

 

[Everything12]

An example of how some people treat High-Godly at the moment is Rimuru Tempest (Light Novel), he has High-Godly because he could Regenerate from Information Particles, the most fundamental aspect of the Slime Verse, and which even Abstract things are made of. This erasure however did not erase his Past nor did it erase him in such a way that others couldn't remember him.

There are other Characters with High-Godly like this who regenerate from Conceptual Destruction that is just like Physical or Spiritual Destruction but of the Concept, with no extra effects from the destruction of their Concept.

 

[Overlord775]

And what are the consequences of that kind of erasure? People say conceptual erasure but do not seems to agree what are the consequences of that erasure.

you know, not existing even as a concept anymore

Also just to say, why would type 3 concept erasure even paradox stuff since those don't exist outside of time ?

 

[Antoniofer]

Once again, you do not elaborate, what does involve "not existing as a concept"?

As for the Rimuru example, what does it make "information particles" different from soul and essence? It is independent from the body/form (like, is possible to be a corporeal being without these particles)?

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @AKM sama @Promestein

I need your help here.

 

[Antvasima]

Without very highly knowledgeable members available, we preferably shouldn't make any drastic overhauls, as it will most likely make things worse, not better.

I still firmly stick to this viewpoint in any case.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I think that the fundamental higher abstract fundamental information and definition that allows something like you to exist in the first place being eradicated is what it means to be erased as a concept. Further depth of definition than that is likely not necessary for our purposes.

 

[WHYNAUT]

From what I saw on this thread nothing really needs to be changed. The wording for High-Godly regeneration should be improved and standards for the different types should be listed, but their shouldn't be any changes to High-Godly regeneration itself.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with WHYNAUT. That seems like the by far safest approach.

 

[DontTalkDT]

@DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @AKM sama @Promestein

I need your help here.

I'm probably not the right person to ask on this, given that I never became much of a friend of this new definition of the type of regeneration. Sorry.

 

[Overlord775]

Anyway, I think that the fundamental higher abstract fundamental information and definition that allows something like you to exist in the first place being eradicated is what it means to be erased as a concept. Further depth of definition than that is likely not necessary for our purposes.

^ basically this @Antoniofer

 

[Antoniofer]

Hmm, to be honest it do sounds to benefic those verses with "complicated" cosmology rather than a general standard. It may also be subject to equalization, characters with simple Mid-Godly in a verse, may have High-Godly in another (cases where the souls of things are subject to a "life wellspring" or akashic plane).

 

[GyroNutz]

Hmm, to be honest it do sounds to benefic those verses with "complicated" cosmology rather than a general standard. It may also be subject to equalization, characters with simple Mid-Godly in a verse, may have High-Godly in another (cases where the souls of things are subject to a "life wellspring" or akashic plane).

I don't see a problem with this really. If a verse isn't explicit about these things then it'd be unfair to assume the highest for them.