High 1-A trascendence and incomprehensibility

[Lanens]

In the tiering system page of this wiki is stated the following : "a High 1-A should be so much higher than baseline 1-A characters that it can not be estimated or comprehended from their perspectives. That is, to even be considered for High 1-A, a character must at the very least transcend baseline 1-A characters in the same manner that they exceed tier 11"

So. If a character is totally incomprehensible to an already above baseline 1-A, this would count as feat to High 1-A?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Not neccesarily

 

[Read_this_post]

No. In reality that gap should be a minimum. However realistically the gap between a 1-A and a 3D being is the same as the gap between a 1-A and 0D being since they are totally beyond the concept of dimensions.

Characters like kami tenchi however seem to get a tier 0 rating for that reason however that is mainly because he has shown no limitations (which is very wrong to me).

However normally transcending a 1-A being is only higher end 1-A as many of them already do this.

 

[Lanens]

Not neccesarily

Hello! How are you doing?

I'm not too versed on this character, is this character incomprehensible and impossible to estimate from the perspective of the warp gods?. Or he just transcends them being in some kind of normal way?

Because is stated on the quote above that being incomprehensible is a form of transcendence comparable to "transcend baseline 1-A characters in the same manner that they exceed tier 11"

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

He's incomprehensible to them, yes. And being incomprehensible to a 3-D being wouldn't make you 1-A.

 

[Lanens]

He's incomprehensible to them, yes. And being incomprehensible to a 3-D being wouldn't make you 1-A.

I see, so being "incomprehensible" is not enough; What about the other part, "that it can not be estimated".

A 3-D may comprehend and estimate the reaches of a 4-D being with physics theory, and the same with higher dimensional beings, but maybe he couldn´t understand the nature of a 1-A dimensionless character. For this reason, i think the quote is right, so being incomprehensible and impossible to estimate is really a big deal. What do you think about this?

 

[Lanens]

No. In reality that gap should be a minimum. However realistically the gap between a 1-A and a 3D being is the same as the gap between a 1-A and 0D being since they are totally beyond the concept of dimensions.
Characters like kami tenchi however seem to get a tier 0 rating for that reason however that is mainly because he has shown no limitations (which is very wrong to me).

However normally transcending a 1-A being is only higher end 1-A as many of them already do this.

Alright.

 

[Antvasima]

The-One-Above-All, Monitor-Mind the Overvoid, and Kami Tenchi all get their ratings from exceeding 1-A characters like they exceed tier 10 or 11.

However, I have asked DarkLK, who knows the Tenchi Muyo power structure and canon best, to revise our profiles when he has assembled sufficient amounts of information from the massive amounts of original Japanese novels and extra material for the series, but that is likely going to take quite a while.

 

[Read_this_post]

Antvasima I dont think any of those characters have been portrayed as being outerversal from an outerversal perspective. The one above all and possibly tenchi are just portrayed as being outright omnipotent whilst the over monitor is written to encompass all of fiction

 

[Antvasima]

They all perceive 1-A characters as fiction. The Overmonitor is not portrayed as encompassing all of fiction though, just all of DC Comics.

 

[Read_this_post]

But if they percieve 1-A characters as fiction, then that would mean they transcend tier 1-A characters the same way tier 10 transcend tier 11. Which is very different from transcending them the same way tier 1-A transcend tier 11.

Edit: also being incomprehensible to 1-A is still really just higher dimensional from a 1-A perspective. Same way a human cant comprehend a 4D beings existence yet they know what it is. Although what ant said about the only proven tier 0 and high 1-A is accurate

But the problem is, what if someone comes in that is so powerful, that he transcends 1-A the same way they transcend 11-C and then repeats that process an infinite amount of times? You would basically have a 1-A who scales higher than a tier 0. there should realistically be no way to measure the gap between the two tiers.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Luminous Being views a 1-A realm as fiction and he's only 1-A

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Kami Tenchi is also as incomprehensible to 1-A characters as they are to regular humans, and so far has the DarkLK stamp of approval, although that may change later on.

Regardless, I agree that none of them have as strong reasons for being tier 0/High 1-A as The Creator, Azathoth, and The Law of Identity, but there isn't much to do about it at this point.

 

[Sera_EX]

Kami-Tenci is well suited for High1-A/0 because he isn't just <insert impressive adjeverb> stronger than 1-As, he is completely and utterly incomprehensible even to them. Even if they had an infinite amoint of time to perform an infinite number of experiments, they could never truly understand it. Also it should be noted that as there is a scientific database wherein even 3D humans have knowledge of multiple higher dimensions, The Chousin similarly would have similar knowledge in relation to 1-A beings beyond themselves. The fact that Kami Tenchi is completely unknowable even to them, as Tokimi said the mere existence of soemthing unknowable to them would be impossible, is some form of evidence suggesting he is above all potential hierarchies.

 

[Sera_EX]

Also viewing something as fiction in a non-layered multiverse setting means nothing. Reality-Fiction hierarchies are not a universal constant across fiction. The type of multiverse matters.

 

[Lanens]

@Sera EX

That would be on the track of my opinion. Thank you.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

High 1-A is basically a would-be Tier 0 if not for some specific caviate preventing them from being Tier 0 (the usual reason is because there's already a Tier 0, but there can be other reasons). High 1-As are basically closer to Tier 0 than they are to 1-A. You could think of them as Low Tier 0, if that makes sense.

 

[Lanens]

High 1-A is basically a would-be Tier 0 if not for some specific caviate preventing them from being Tier 0 (the usual reason is because there's already a Tier 0, but there can be other reasons). High 1-As are basically closer to Tier 0 than they are to 1-A. You could think of them as Low Tier 0, if that makes sense.

Yes, you are right. However, in this thread, I wanted to discuss the specific definition posted in the op; The requirement of transcending and being beyond comprehension to a 1-A character as he is to a 11-D character.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

High 1-A is basically a would-be Tier 0 if not for some specific caviate preventing them from being Tier 0 (the usual reason is because there's already a Tier 0, but there can be other reasons). High 1-As are basically closer to Tier 0 than they are to 1-A. You could think of them as Low Tier 0, if that makes sense.

Yes, you are right. However, in this thread, I wanted to discuss the specific definition posted in the op; The requirement of transcending and being beyond comprehension to a 1-A character as he is to a 11-D character.

Well like I said, I think the requirement is that the character is basically almost a Tier 0. They're supremely all powerful but there's some small/specific limitaiton preventing them from being Tier 0.

Take TOAA for instance and downgrade him to High 1-A. He has absolute supreme power above everything else, except.... he's mildly allergic to lemons. Boom, he's now High 1-A (probably not a good example, but you get the idea). That's what a High 1-A is. Their power is absolute and supreme just like any true Tier 0, except there's some specific limitation which makes them not.

Regular 1-As are not all-powerful. Rather, they simply transcend dimensionality. So a character that's infinitely above another 1-A to the point where that 1-A is fictional or less real, is still a 1-A as far as anyone knows, because there's still no indication that they're all-powerful.

 

[Lanens]

High 1-A is basically a would-be Tier 0 if not for some specific caviate preventing them from being Tier 0 (the usual reason is because there's already a Tier 0, but there can be other reasons). High 1-As are basically closer to Tier 0 than they are to 1-A. You could think of them as Low Tier 0, if that makes sense.

Yes, you are right. However, in this thread, I wanted to discuss the specific definition posted in the op; The requirement of transcending and being beyond comprehension to a 1-A character as he is to a 11-D character.

Well like I said, I think the requirement is that the character is basically almost a Tier 0. They're supremely all powerful but there's some small/specific limitaiton preventing them from being Tier 0.
Take TOAA for instance and downgrade him to High 1-A. He has absolute supreme power above everything else, except.... he's mildly allergic to lemons. Boom, he's now High 1-A (probably not a good example, but you get the idea). That's what a High 1-A is. Their power is absolute and supreme just like any true Tier 0, except there's some specific limitation which makes them not.

Regular 1-As are not all-powerful. Rather, they simply transcend dimensionality. So a character that's infinitely above another 1-A to the point where that 1-A is fictional or less real, is still a 1-A as far as anyone knows, because there's still no indication that they're all-powerful.

I see, but first of all, how do you define if he is "basically almost a tier 0"?. One form to define it is if the being is boundless, have no restrictions and is totally incomprehensible and cannot be estimated even to a 1-A character (and that last definition is important because a baseline 1-A character can be boundless in his verse without the feats to be High 1-A or tier 0); That´s the definition present in the wiki.

 

[Sera_EX]

Nothing in fiction is all-powerful. 1-A is the highest you can go. It is an infinite tier that has no universal constant.

1-As can be stronger than each other in-verse through qualitative measures such as Taikyoku or the "stairway to the Creator" in Umineko but they have no relevance to another verse and therefore a baseline 1-A from one verse can be superior to a really strong 1-A from another. Simply put there is no baseline, and you can't stack infinity to make it stronger. What makes a 1-A stronger depends solely on the verse's mechanics.

Let's say Monarch Laciel is 1-A via being <insert super impressive adverb> superior to Gargoyle One to a point where Gargoyle's attacks can't do anything to Monarch. Both exist in the same verse btw.

Then there's Ryukama from another verse, who'd be 1-A solely for fulfling the baseline requirements to be 1-A, yet also be the creator of everything in his verse, be the source of all sources, unchanging, and supreme, and stated to beyond several concepts and theories that are restrictions to Moanrch in his verse. Who's stronger? Monarch who is above a baseline 1-A? Or Ryukama who is a baseline 1-A but has less qualitiative restrictions? See the issue with using the term "baseline" for 1-As?

 

[Antvasima]

Sera has explained this pretty well. Is that sufficient to conclude this discussion?

 

[Lanens]

Sera has explained this pretty well. Is that sufficient to conclude this discussion?

Yes.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will close this then.