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Also, was it even agreed on that the calc could be used? Because Midoriya's profile was just suddenly updated
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Heroes Rising Spoiler Thread: The Sequel
- Thread starter Kingofwolves999
- Start date
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I already said that and no one believed me, you can see Overhaul in the manga panel does follow 20% Izuku.
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- #243
Does he? The panel right before Deku actually comes down to kick him in the head has Overhaul still looking directly ahead, not seeing Deku at all.
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Nah that was the anime being "lazy" more than anything. It's pretty obvious Overhual in the manga was just looking forward and never looked up. I'd call it an anime **** up.Therefir said:
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- #245
Ah, looking at it again, he is actually staring at Deku as he comes down.
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Yes he is, you can see his eyes are staring upward. I'll get the picture myself if I have to.
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- #247
He actually can see Deku, he stares at him while he comes down with the Manchester Smash. He's not faster than him at all, and by his own admission can only keep up due to his simple movements, but he can perceive him.
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Why in the **** did Hori make it like that ?
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- #249
I don't think this should get rid of his Hypersonic + rating though. He's still much faster than Overhaul, who is already reacting to Mach 8.8 projectiles with relative ease. His quirk is faster than him as well, and 20% dodges it better than basically everyone else in a sheer speed contest, though he got clipped.
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The calc was accepted, and I don't think we would have been discussing all this if it wasn't going to be used.DragonGamerZ913 said:
What we were discussing is if the feat should be halved, and since that wouldn't the final result anyway, I added the calc the profile.
I can undo the changes if people want to, but I see no reason other than "Bruh spoilers" (even tho we already use the latest chapter in the manga and the movie has been out for quite some time.
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Note: Izuku had trouble dodging Overhaul's spikes at 20%. even though he was trying to predict them. I doubt Chisaki can't perceive his own attacks.
It was never stated that Izuku was so fast that Overhaul could only keep up by predicting his moves. He only said that Izuku is fast, but compared to the other two the his movements were simple. Nothing else was said about 20% speed.
It was never stated that Izuku was so fast that Overhaul could only keep up by predicting his moves. He only said that Izuku is fast, but compared to the other two the his movements were simple. Nothing else was said about 20% speed.
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- #252
The fact that Nighteye basically got stomped by Overhaul despite cosmically outskilling Deku, while Deku was dodging all his attacks with speed and strength alone, should warrant baseline Hypersonic+.
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I think adding 100% Full Cowl to both Deku and Katsuki though we should add the images.
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- #254
Maybe change the reasoning to "is much faster than Nighteye, who throws projectiles this fast" with a link to the calc. Maybe also "could dodge Overhaul's spikes, which were too fast for Nighteye, though with difficulty"
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- #255
Why does Deku's gallery even have his Ones Justice model. Why is that a thing.
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@Kingofwolves999 I do think 20% Deku is faster than Nighteye, but to be honest that's not enough to justify a speed tier jump. As I have said in other threads, this was made this way in order to avoid an over utilization of upscaling.
Just look at DBZ speed ratings before they started to use Kaioken, most characters were all around Relativistic speeds, even though they blitzed each other again and again.
Also Sir Nighteye's movement speed is just Supersonic+, and that's probably why he couldn't avoid Chisaki's spikes that moved at Hypersonic speeds, just Hypersonic combat speed may not been enough.
Just look at DBZ speed ratings before they started to use Kaioken, most characters were all around Relativistic speeds, even though they blitzed each other again and again.
Also Sir Nighteye's movement speed is just Supersonic+, and that's probably why he couldn't avoid Chisaki's spikes that moved at Hypersonic speeds, just Hypersonic combat speed may not been enough.
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- #257
How much faster does he need to be established? Nighteye's mach 8.8 projectiles are being reacted to with relative ease by Overhaul, who in turn is slower than 20%. What scaling chain does he need that would justify a tier jump? Does he need to be outright blitzing people at Mach 9.9999 to be even considered for it or something?
It seems like you're being overly strict on what should be a relatively simple deduction. Deku is not less than 1.14x faster than Nighteye's projectiles when he's at 20%, that's ridiculous.
It seems like you're being overly strict on what should be a relatively simple deduction. Deku is not less than 1.14x faster than Nighteye's projectiles when he's at 20%, that's ridiculous.
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Nighteye did keep up with Overhaul for some time, but the sheer number of spikes and their speed is not something you can dodge with just combat speed. Deku even needed to destroy a large part of the ground to avoid all the spikes, and that's not something Nighteye can do.Kingofwolves999 said:
Also, I kind of remember Overhaul grazing one of Deku's gauntlet in the manga, destroying it in the process.
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Well Deku never blitzed Chisaki with 20%, so I don't think he qualifies for upscaling.
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Yeah he wasn't that much faster, Chiaki did almost touch him to. The anime made his gauntlet randomly explode for some reasons, while Chisaki was the one who broke it.
I don't believe he should upscale either.
I don't believe he should upscale either.
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- #262
He's established as faster than both Mirio and Nighteye, with Mirio being stated faster than Nighteye. He's the only one who was reacting to Chisaki's quirk consistently and was held back because of his stiff movements. Overhaul couldn't even properly avoid Deku's Manchester Smash, and lost two of his arms just trying to dodge it.
He barely grazed Deku with his hand because Deku was standing still after breaking the ground, the fact that he couldn't even fully touch him because Deku reacted faster than Overhaul is just further cementing a speed difference. I'm not implying it's vast, but to say that Deku isn't even 1.15x faster than Nighteye's projectiles, which Overhaul was easily blocking just moments ago, is ridiculous.
20% > Fused Overhaul > Mirio > Nighteye = Mach 8.8
How could Overhaul not easily touch and kill Deku if he's only as fast as Nighteye's projectiles? Why would he comment about his speed at all if he's not even remotely faster than Nighteye or Mirio?
He barely grazed Deku with his hand because Deku was standing still after breaking the ground, the fact that he couldn't even fully touch him because Deku reacted faster than Overhaul is just further cementing a speed difference. I'm not implying it's vast, but to say that Deku isn't even 1.15x faster than Nighteye's projectiles, which Overhaul was easily blocking just moments ago, is ridiculous.
20% > Fused Overhaul > Mirio > Nighteye = Mach 8.8
How could Overhaul not easily touch and kill Deku if he's only as fast as Nighteye's projectiles? Why would he comment about his speed at all if he's not even remotely faster than Nighteye or Mirio?
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- #263
If 20% isn't even remotely faster than Mirio or Nighteye, Deku should have been dead right here. There is absolutely no way Overhaul can say that he didn't kill Deku here due to his speed if Deku is only as fast as the projectiles that Overhaul was easily blocking not even 2 minutes ago.
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- #264
I understand being wary about up scaling, but what on earth is the issue with this particular instance? Overhaul himself slapped up Nighteye with ease, and even said he wasn't as fast as Mirio. Mach 8.8 is not impressive to Fused Chisaki at all. He reacts to Mach 8.8 projectiles with ease, and only got hit by one when he didn't even see it coming.
If a character that is clearly above Mach 8.8 is is unable to easily kill a character due to their speed, and even comments on that being the reason said character is still alive, how is that not reason enough to upscale? Neither of them are Mach 8.8, they're substantially above it. What is the issue in this case?
If a character that is clearly above Mach 8.8 is is unable to easily kill a character due to their speed, and even comments on that being the reason said character is still alive, how is that not reason enough to upscale? Neither of them are Mach 8.8, they're substantially above it. What is the issue in this case?
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Reacting to Mach 8.8 projectiles doesn't necessarily mean that Chisaki is always fighting at that speed. You don't need to be as fast as something necessarily in order to dodge it.
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Lowkey disappointed that Deku ain't 6-C since well, the storm was going to destroy the island and was even affecting the mainland, but what can you do
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20% Deku being Hypersonic would certainly make him faster than Overhaul, Mirio and Nighteye, and it would allow him to keep up with the speed of Overhaul's spikes, while not making this one Hypersonic+ for being able to to graze Deku's gloves.
>Overhaul couldn't even properly avoid Deku's Manchester Smash, and lost two of his arms just trying to dodge it.
To be honest he dodged the attack completely, the kick being so strong that it still affected him even while it failed, is a completely different matter.
>He barely grazed Deku with his hand because Deku was standing still after breaking the ground.
That's wrong, Deku was in the middle of a jump when he got grazed by Overhaul.
>I'm not implying it's vast, but to say that Deku isn't even 1.15x faster than Nighteye's projectiles, which Overhaul was easily blocking just moments ago, is ridiculous.
It was never stated that he was easily blocking the projectiles, and his arm suffered a large injury from them.
>How could Overhaul not easily touch and kill Deku if he's only as fast as Nighteye's projectiles? Why would he comment about his speed at all if he's not even remotely faster than Nighteye or Mirio?
He couldn't touch Deku because his movement speed was much higher than Overhaul's.
>Overhaul couldn't even properly avoid Deku's Manchester Smash, and lost two of his arms just trying to dodge it.
To be honest he dodged the attack completely, the kick being so strong that it still affected him even while it failed, is a completely different matter.
>He barely grazed Deku with his hand because Deku was standing still after breaking the ground.
That's wrong, Deku was in the middle of a jump when he got grazed by Overhaul.
>I'm not implying it's vast, but to say that Deku isn't even 1.15x faster than Nighteye's projectiles, which Overhaul was easily blocking just moments ago, is ridiculous.
It was never stated that he was easily blocking the projectiles, and his arm suffered a large injury from them.
>How could Overhaul not easily touch and kill Deku if he's only as fast as Nighteye's projectiles? Why would he comment about his speed at all if he's not even remotely faster than Nighteye or Mirio?
He couldn't touch Deku because his movement speed was much higher than Overhaul's.
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- #268
@Damage
Are you implying that he decided to move slower vs Deku than Nighteye, then started praising him for his speed? If 20% wasn't faster than Overhaul's reaction speed by a decent amount, he wouldn't have made that comment about him being faster than both Mirio and Nighteye. What, should he have specified "you are approximately 1.17x faster than that other guy's projectiles in movement speed"? Your reasoning here doesn't make sense, it's his reaction speed Deku is scaling higher than in the first place.
Are you implying that he decided to move slower vs Deku than Nighteye, then started praising him for his speed? If 20% wasn't faster than Overhaul's reaction speed by a decent amount, he wouldn't have made that comment about him being faster than both Mirio and Nighteye. What, should he have specified "you are approximately 1.17x faster than that other guy's projectiles in movement speed"? Your reasoning here doesn't make sense, it's his reaction speed Deku is scaling higher than in the first place.
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Uh, question... are we gonna update Bakugo's profile as well? Since High 7-A, as much as I disagree, seems to be the accepted tier placement for Full Cowl 100% Deku
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- #270
@Therefir
Overhaul blocked one of Nighteye's projectiles while not even staring at him when he threw it. He blocked Deku, then immediately blocked the stamp. After that, in the manga, he dodges 3 more stamps while talking to Nighteye like there is nothing wrong going on, or commenting about his speed or anything. The only comment Nighteye got on his speed was that he was slower than Mirio.
If you want to use the anime, Overhaul easily dodged sevral other attacks from Nighteye, while having a full conversation with him, then killed him with ease not 30 seconds later.
Deku is standing completely still with his foot embedded in the floor when Overhaul lunges at him. He is finishing an attack not jumping.
Overhaul blocked one of Nighteye's projectiles while not even staring at him when he threw it. He blocked Deku, then immediately blocked the stamp. After that, in the manga, he dodges 3 more stamps while talking to Nighteye like there is nothing wrong going on, or commenting about his speed or anything. The only comment Nighteye got on his speed was that he was slower than Mirio.
If you want to use the anime, Overhaul easily dodged sevral other attacks from Nighteye, while having a full conversation with him, then killed him with ease not 30 seconds later.
Deku is standing completely still with his foot embedded in the floor when Overhaul lunges at him. He is finishing an attack not jumping.
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- #271
This is every instance where Nighteye throws a stamp at Overhaul. He hits him a single time, when he's looking at Deku. Every other time he misses. His statement about "limiting the opponents options" does not mean he's intentionally missing, in the anime Overhaul is shown directly dodging the stamps with ease.
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- #272
Deku not only dodges Overhaul's attempts to touch him in that panel, he also dodged his quirk. You can see the spikes stabbing at where Deku jumped from, with two of Ovehaul's hands touching the ground making them. Deku completely avoided Overhaul's attacks, and was only barely grazed by his hand, so lightly that it just took his glove.
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So much text to only get a small plus on a profile.
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- #274
It's a justified plus
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- #275
Like I say, correct information is what I want out of any discussion. By this Wiki's standards, I don't see how this particular case doesn't qualify for a "+" rating. It seems overly cautious and strict to just say he's Hypersonic.
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Chisaki barely blocked that projectile even with his huge amorfed hand, and since Nighteye was in front of him, he didn't needed to move his arm that much, I'm not sure how that proves he is faster than the projectiles (and even if he were, that wouldn't make any closer to Hypersonic+). Sir Nighteye being able to keep up with Overhaul should disprove your points about him being much faster.
Sir Nighteye also talked a lot in the fight, that doesn't really prove anything, MHA characters tend to do that a lot in the middle of the battle.
The panel clearly shows Deku in a middle of jump while Overhaul is using one arm to create an spike that almost got Deku and using another arm to try to touch him with Overhaul.
Sir Nighteye also talked a lot in the fight, that doesn't really prove anything, MHA characters tend to do that a lot in the middle of the battle.
The panel clearly shows Deku in a middle of jump while Overhaul is using one arm to create an spike that almost got Deku and using another arm to try to touch him with Overhaul.
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- #277
Barely blocked? Where? And what does that matter when he was preoccupied with another opponent and it was thrown at him from someone else? And how does that disprove the several other times he easily dodged the projectiles? Or his statement about Nighteye being slower than Mirio, who he could react to in his base?
Nighteye died 20 seconds after getting close to Overhaul. He "kept up" due to his skill, but even then he got stomped. Overhaul in his base was reacting to Mirio, but couldn't beat him due to his quirk. Fused Overhaul claims Nighteye is even slower. Saying he kept up with him is overestimating Nighteye's speed, while downplaying his skill. He stayed alive that long because of his higher skill and (in the anime) quirk.
True, talking doesn't indicate much.
No, the first panel shows Deku coming down from an attack and breaking the ground, then the next shows his foot stuck in the floor with him grimacing in pain. Overhaul used two arms to make those spikes, and he failed touching Deku because he's slower than him, which is what I've been arguing.
Nighteye died 20 seconds after getting close to Overhaul. He "kept up" due to his skill, but even then he got stomped. Overhaul in his base was reacting to Mirio, but couldn't beat him due to his quirk. Fused Overhaul claims Nighteye is even slower. Saying he kept up with him is overestimating Nighteye's speed, while downplaying his skill. He stayed alive that long because of his higher skill and (in the anime) quirk.
True, talking doesn't indicate much.
No, the first panel shows Deku coming down from an attack and breaking the ground, then the next shows his foot stuck in the floor with him grimacing in pain. Overhaul used two arms to make those spikes, and he failed touching Deku because he's slower than him, which is what I've been arguing.
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Anyway, the point is that Deku would need to completely blitz Overhaul to be able to upscale to Hypersonic+, and since that never happened, there's no way he should be on that tier right now.
There are countless verses that could be upgraded with almost your same argument, and we shouldn't have any double standards with this verse. I can assure you that discussions similar to this have happened countless times, and in order to avoid inflated results, the site has decided not to increase the speed unless it's a case of serious blitz.
There are countless verses that could be upgraded with almost your same argument, and we shouldn't have any double standards with this verse. I can assure you that discussions similar to this have happened countless times, and in order to avoid inflated results, the site has decided not to increase the speed unless it's a case of serious blitz.
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- #279
I don't want double standards, I want an understanding of why this shouldn't be acceptable for an up scale, regardless of verse. I'd argue this for RWBY or Dragon Ball or even Dora the Explorer.
When the result that's being surpassed is so close to another tier, why is it not ok to upscale? What issues are you hoping to prevent in this case, that wouldn't show up from any verse that uses blitzing as a standard for speed?
When the result that's being surpassed is so close to another tier, why is it not ok to upscale? What issues are you hoping to prevent in this case, that wouldn't show up from any verse that uses blitzing as a standard for speed?
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- #280
If a character was claimed much faster than another character, who is calculated to be a single decimal point away from another tier, would that character not upscale? Why? At what point is upscaling supposed to be ok to use? Why are blitzes specifically the only measure for up scaling?
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