Hellsing: Alucard Issues and Additions (Part 1)

[WeeklyBattles]

Profile in question
Removals:

• Smoke Manipulation
  • Not even sure why he has this tbh
• Resistance Negation (Much like Zorin who can hypnotize vampires with the third eye)
  • This is less Resistance Negation and more due to the Third Eye not being passive, Seras broke out of Zorin's illusions the second Alucard told her she could activate her Third Eye, and then was unaffected by Zorin using her illusions directly on her later in the fight
• Fear Manipulation (His mere presence was enough to make dozens of soldiers tremble and panic. Without even getting into action Alucard could make Rip Van Winkle kneel in despair)
  • This is a bit misleading. For the former, the platoon of soldiers was waiting for Alucard with full knowledge that he was an armed combatant who had singlehandedly wiped out another whole platoon seconds before, said platoon having been on the other side of the door they were waiting at, and then came out without a scratch. Thats not fear manipulation, thats just Alucard being intimidating and the soldiers being afraid of fighting a monster. As for the latter, with added context, Rip wasnt terrified by some supernatural fear aura, she was terrified of Alucard because hes...Alucard, someone who the Major directly told her would kill her if they fought.
• Soul Manipulation (Possesses at least 120,000 souls inside his body)
  • This wouldnt actually grant a resistance to soul manipulation. Having multiple souls doesnt mean they are able to resist soul manipulation any more than an individual soul does. His immortality via soul stock is already covered in his immortality section anyways.

Additions:

• Corruption (As a vampire, Alucard can make other people into a vampire or ghoul by sucking their blood)
  • This can actually double asPower Bestowal
• Darkness Manipulation (Created several dozen shadow arms), Body Control (Could create lots of hands)
  • This also qualifies for Additional Limbs
• Surface Scaling
  • Alucard has shown the ability to run up walls before
• Weather Manipulation
  • The main feat he is scaled to is manipulating a large amount of fog. This should be obvious lol
• Holy Manipulation
  • The bullets fired by Casull are made from the melted silver Christian cross from Manchester Cathedral, while the bullets fired by Jackal are jacketed with a casing of Macedonian silver and each bullet is individually blessed. Nuff said
• Multiple Selves
  • "In regards to Alucard's many forms, Hirano had stated that he no longer cares about being a woman, or a man; to which, Alucard eventually said a line relating to this in Volume 9 of Hellsing. Continuing, Hirano said that Alucard took so many lives; and therefore, those lives eventually altered Alucard's personal identity. The "Control Art Restriction System" comes into play to help suppress this. His initial personality is male, so he took that as his basic form."
• Resistance to Illusion Creation, Mind Manipulation (Alucard possesses a third eye which he can use to break out of illusions and hypnotize others much like Seras)
  • This would qualify for a limited form of Power Nullification

Adjustments:

• Intangibility (Can phase through walls)
  • Not sure why it isnt listed but Alucard can also become intangible by turning into blood and shadows, ie. both immaterial and elemental intangibility. Technically his ability to transform into a swarm of bats would also qualify, albeit to a much lesser extent than the other three.
• Flight
  • Outside of his swarm of bats form this should be noted as being Pseudo-flight or Restricted flight, the most he ever did was during the Battle of London, where he just did a high jump from the aircraft carrier and then a slow fall Steven Universe style
• Resistance to Holy Manipulation
  • A scan for him shrugging off Anderson's holy bayonets as a justification for this would be appreciated, i know he resists it but still.
• Illusion Creation
  • Not sure why he only has this via scaling to Zorin, he displayed it himself against both Tubalcain and Walter
• Resistance to Illusion Creation, Mind Manipulation (Alucard possesses a third eye which he can use to break out of illusions and hypnotize others much like Seras)
  • In the same vein as Seras, it should be specified that this is not passive and needs to be activated to work

Stat Revision coming soon

 

[LordGinSama]

Will be replying to this soon.

 

[Deceived3596]

Following

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Can you link the profile?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Can you link the profile?

Alucard (Hellsing)

Alucard (アーカード, Ākādo?) is the main protagonist of the Hellsing series created by Kouta Hirano. He is the most powerful weapon of the Hellsing Organization which works against vampires and other such supernatural forces. Alucard is no mere Vampire, he's in fact, Dracula; it has been implied that...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Thehunter077]

Irrc I remember Hellsing guidebook exist, maybe if revision happen you should use it.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I agree with everything so far.

Also I have heard many pieces of information regarding Alucard's strengths and weaknesses that appear to be either headcanon, or at the very least I have never seen backed up by sufficient sources.

First and foremost is the ease with which he can can completely absorb someone. I have heard claims that he is able to do so simply by coming into contact with their blood, and vice versa. As far as I am aware, this is never indicated. Alucard has only been shown to have absorbed the souls and abilities of those he has actually properly fed off of, and it is never done through mere contact. This is supported by, well, everything about Seras's journey to becoming a True Vampire by drinking blood.

Secondly there is his weakness section. There is a pervasive idea that by entering Level 0, Alucard uses up his sock of souls and can now physically be killed, as well as the notion that a strike to the heart uses more of his souls than other injuries.
As far as I'm aware, this is also something that is never remotely indicated, and if it is I would like to see the scans in question.

@WeeklyBattles I may be wrong, but I think Smoke Manip might be a reference to his statement that proper, non-Millenium vampires should be able to turn into mist. Other than that I agree with all points in the OP

 

[Random-Helper323]

• Resistance Negation (Much like Zorin who can hypnotize vampires with the third eye)

I always said it was more of a multilayered hax. Vampires have one layer of resistance and stronger vampires have two.

• • This is less Resistance Negation and more due to the Third Eye not being passive, Seras broke out of Zorin's illusions the second Alucard told her she could activate her Third Eye

Seras already knew it wasn't real, and wasn't fully affected by it. Given that she doesn't know how to use her abilities at that point, we can't say it has to be activated each time either. We also know that her resistance to the illusions and ability to dispel them is seperate.

• • and then was unaffected by Zorin using her illusions directly on her later in the fight

You've left a lot out here. You've leapt right from when Seras has just instinctively adapted to her first illusion to after she gains her true powers and eats stronger illusions for breakfast.

Seras could resist Zorin's illusions when they were cast on an area, couldn't resist them when they were cast on her directly, and then gained more resistance and suddenly could resist them when she couldn't before. It seems like double-layered resistance and hax to me.

• Fear Manipulation (His mere presence was enough to make dozens of soldiers tremble and panic. Without even getting into action Alucard could make Rip Van Winkle kneel in despair)
  • This is a bit misleading. For the former, the platoon of soldiers was waiting for Alucard with full knowledge that he was an armed combatant who had singlehandedly wiped out another whole platoon seconds before, said platoon having been on the other side of the door they were waiting at, and then came out without a scratch. Thats not fear manipulation, thats just Alucard being intimidating and the soldiers being afraid of fighting a monster. As for the latter, with added context, Rip wasnt terrified by some supernatural fear aura, she was terrified of Alucard because hes...Alucard, someone who the Major directly told her would kill her if they fought.

Funny thing about it is Rip became more scared after he telepathically reached out, but there are other feats of fear stuff, like Integra's uncle being terrified before Alucard even showed himself, and everyone being instinctively afraid of him the moment he released level 0. Anderson even states that everyone can feel the presence approaching. And it was enough to make Anderson back off. This is a guy who never backs off from anything.

• Soul Manipulation (Possesses at least 120,000 souls inside his body)
  • This wouldnt actually grant a resistance to soul manipulation. Having multiple souls doesnt mean they are able to resist soul manipulation any more than an individual soul does. His immortality via soul stock is already covered in his immortality section anyways.

It is a bit uncertain, but it does at least give some protection to soul manipulation. If someone has something that fries a single soul for example, Alucard will withstand it. If it has a provable limit to how many souls it can target at once as well. In addition, those souls are stored in hammer space, granting more protection.

Additions:

• Corruption (As a vampire, Alucard can make other people into a vampire or ghoul by sucking their blood)
  • This can actually double asPower Bestowal
• Darkness Manipulation (Created several dozen shadow arms), Body Control (Could create lots of hands)
  • This also qualifies for Additional Limbs
• Surface Scaling
  • Alucard has shown the ability to run up walls before
• Weather Manipulation
  • The main feat he is scaled to is manipulating a large amount of fog. This should be obvious lol
• Holy Manipulation
  • The bullets fired by Casull are made from the melted silver Christian cross from Manchester Cathedral, while the bullets fired by Jackal are jacketed with a casing of Macedonian silver and each bullet is individually blessed. Nuff said
• Multiple Selves
  • "In regards to Alucard's many forms, Hirano had stated that he no longer cares about being a woman, or a man; to which, Alucard eventually said a line relating to this in Volume 9 of Hellsing. Continuing, Hirano said that Alucard took so many lives; and therefore, those lives eventually altered Alucard's personal identity. The "Control Art Restriction System" comes into play to help suppress this. His initial personality is male, so he took that as his basic form."
• Resistance to Illusion Creation, Mind Manipulation (Alucard possesses a third eye which he can use to break out of illusions and hypnotize others much like Seras)
  • This would qualify for a limited form of Power Nullification

Adjustments:

• Intangibility (Can phase through walls)
  • Not sure why it isnt listed but Alucard can also become intangible by turning into blood and shadows, ie. both immaterial and elemental intangibility. Technically his ability to transform into a swarm of bats would also qualify, albeit to a much lesser extent than the other three.
• Flight
  • Outside of his swarm of bats form this should be noted as being Pseudo-flight or Restricted flight, the most he ever did was during the Battle of London, where he just did a high jump from the aircraft carrier and then a slow fall Steven Universe style
• Resistance to Holy Manipulation
  • A scan for him shrugging off Anderson's holy bayonets as a justification for this would be appreciated, i know he resists it but still.
• Illusion Creation
  • Not sure why he only has this via scaling to Zorin, he displayed it himself against both Tubalcain and Walter
• Resistance to Illusion Creation, Mind Manipulation (Alucard possesses a third eye which he can use to break out of illusions and hypnotize others much like Seras)
  • In the same vein as Seras, it should be specified that this is not passive and needs to be activated to work

The additions are fine. I made a thread to add surface scaling but no-one concluded it.

Stat Revision coming soon

Do you actually attempt to downgrade anything that fights Ryuko? I know you tend to oppose verses just because they're common "rivals" to your preferred franchises, which seems like a waste of mental energy to me, but oh well, whatever works for you.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Waiting for LordGinSama before deciding position

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I always said it was more of a multilayered hax. Vampires have one layer of resistance and stronger vampires have two.

Not really? We don't even know if Millenium vampires possess a third eye or if it's something exclusive to true vampires like Alucard and Seras. We already know from Alucard's comment to Edward Cullen in episode 1 that the "third and fourth-rate" vampires produced by Milenium are unable to perform certain abilities that Nosferatu should possess, and Zorin's additional eye is clearly not the same as Seras or Alucard's.

Seras already knew it wasn't real, and wasn't fully affected by it. Given that she doesn't know how to use her abilities at that point, we can't say it has to be activated each time either. We also know that her resistance to the illusions and ability to dispel them is seperate.

It is very explicitly a conscious decision to activate it. She already knew that Zorin was utilizing illusion magic, and her being affected by the illusion at all was due to the deeply-traumatic nature of the vision itself (though I will rewatch to confirm just in case)

Funny thing about it is Rip became more scared after he telepathically reached out, but there are other feats of fear stuff, like Integra's uncle being terrified before Alucard even showed himself, and everyone being instinctively afraid of him the moment he released level 0. Anderson even states that everyone can feel the presence approaching. And it was enough to make Anderson back off. This is a guy who never backs off from anything.

The fear manip point, as usual, is the one I have the most vehement issues with.

Rip became more scared because "Oh shit, the super powerful evil creature, who's here to kill me, is talking to me in my head" I would be a hell of a lot more scared too.
Alucard was absolutely showing himself when her uncle was scared. Her uncle was terrified and said "The...The corpse?!", very clearly implying that he was scared because he was watching a scary dead corpse start moving. A corpse that he already knew was there.
Anderson and Seras sensed Alucard coming. The highly-experienced supernatural hunter and the extremely powerful supernatural woman, both of whom are intimately familiar with Alucard's presence, sensed him coming. Must be constant passive mind-******* fearhax I guess.
Everyone was not "instinctively afraid" of Level 0, they were afraid because it was ******* scary and they all know that this is a very very very dangerous dark creature that they're watching pull some eldritch bullshit.
Anderson backed off because he's an experienced monster hunter and is not a ******* moron.

It is a bit uncertain, but it does at least give some protection to soul manipulation. If someone has something that fries a single soul for example, Alucard will withstand it. If it has a provable limit to how many souls it can target at once as well. In addition, those souls are stored in hammer space, granting more protection.

This is a fair point but I'm not sure that that's what we would refer to as Resistance. If anything, I'd call it "limited resistance"

Do you actually attempt to downgrade anything that fights Ryuko? I know you tend to oppose verses just because they're common "rivals" to your preferred franchises, which seems like a waste of mental energy to me, but oh well, whatever works for you.

While I will not claim that bias is not present I will also state that I have discussed the matter of Alucard's profile with Weekly and have also moved to have many of these changes made.
While it doesn't matter as I have chosen to bow out of versus threads altogether, I will also note that I greatly prefer Alucard over Ryuko and don't think that she can kill him. However, I would rather avoid wanking my man Al regardless, and would rather him be debated by his proper merits.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Not really? We don't even know if Millenium vampires possess a third eye or if it's something exclusive to true vampires like Alucard and Seras. We already know from Alucard's comment to Edward Cullen in episode 1 that the "third and fourth-rate" vampires produced by Milenium are unable to perform certain abilities that Nosferatu should possess, and Zorin's additional eye is clearly not the same as Seras or Alucard's.

Actually, Zorin's third eye seems to be a lesser imitation of Alucard's third eye. It can't be a coincidence that her literal third eye is how she casts illusions, and remember that Millennium vampires are lesser copies of Alucard. As for Millennium vampires having third eyes in general, it arguably doesn't matter here, because the resistance feat is performed by Seras. Basically...

Zorin's area of effect illusion < base Seras' resistance < Zorin's direct illusion < True Vampire Seras' resistance

We can't say she was only affected the second time because of trauma when we know she straight up blocked the previous illusion and was outright immune to the same attack as a true vampire, and could even dispel it.

It is very explicitly a conscious decision to activate it. She already knew that Zorin was utilizing illusion magic, and her being affected by the illusion at all was due to the deeply-traumatic nature of the vision itself (though I will rewatch to confirm just in case)

That's the key word. You said you'd rewatch, not reread. In the OVA she's briefly affected by the large illusion, but in the manga she's basically unaffected from the start.

Alucard was absolutely showing himself when her uncle was scared. Her uncle was terrified and said "The...The corpse?!", very clearly implying that he was scared because he was watching a scary dead corpse start moving. A corpse that he already knew was there.

That scene plays out slightly differently in the manga, I think. Plus he was about to shoot Integra and then just stopped.

Anderson and Seras sensed Alucard coming. The highly-experienced supernatural hunter and the extremely powerful supernatural woman, both of whom are intimately familiar with Alucard's presence, sensed him coming. Must be constant passive mind-******* fearhax I guess.

That's not what I said. I said they could detect the encroaching level 0.

Everyone was not "instinctively afraid" of Level 0, they were afraid because it was ******* scary and they all know that this is a very very very dangerous dark creature that they're watching pull some eldritch bullshit.
Anderson backed off because he's an experienced monster hunter and is not a ******* moron.

They were terrified the moment he announced himself, and Anderson stated that everyone could feel the encroaching danger. It was well before the army appeared and before he dissolved into shadows and tendrils. Before then he could have just been being theatrical about introducing himself. And yet everyone suddenly became terrified.

This is a fair point but I'm not sure that that's what we would refer to as Resistance. If anything, I'd call it "limited resistance"

Maybe. It's a couple forms of defence if nothing else.

While I will not claim that bias is not present

So it is true? I was genuinely asking, since I didn't know for sure.

I greatly prefer Alucard over Ryuko and don't think that she can kill him.

... Are you allowed to say that? If Weekly shows up to arrest you for thinking that, do you know your rights?

However, I would rather avoid wanking my man Al regardless, and would rather him be debated by his proper merits.

I opposed some of these upgrades at first too. LordGinSama convinced me of several of them. But the layered mind hax and resistance was always my line of thought. Don't know about negation, if that's any different.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Actually, Zorin's third eye seems to be a lesser imitation of Alucard's third eye. It can't be a coincidence that her literal third eye is how she casts illusions, and remember that Millennium vampires are lesser copies of Alucard. As for Millennium vampires having third eyes in general, it arguably doesn't matter here, because the resistance feat is performed by Seras. Basically...

Zorin's area of effect illusion < base Seras' resistance < Zorin's direct illusion < True Vampire Seras' resistance

The illusion scaling still doesn't sound right to me but I will have to rewatch (and reread) to confirm so for now I will trust your judgement.

That aside, I don't think it's reasonable to make the assumption that Zorin's hand-eye is meant to be equivalent to a proper vampire's Third Eye, as its functions, usage, and appearance are all completely different and it's never even referenced in the same context.
Them simply being somewhat inferior copies of Alucard is a bit of a misinterpretation as there are multiple degrees of separation there. And, as mentioned before, Alucard specifically says that the vampires produced by Millenium already do not possess the typical abilities of a proper vampire. And that's even beside the fact that no other member of the millions-strong vampire army possesses any similar third eye imagery or abilities.
We see from Luke, the Dandyman, and Winkle that stronger Millenium vampires possess completely unique and independent abilities unrelated to Alucard's own, and that he gains these abilities after absorbing them. Zorin's illusory eye seems to be another example of such a unique ability, rather than an expression of something inherited from Alucard.

We can't say she was only affected the second time because of trauma when we know she straight up blocked the previous illusion and was outright immune to the same attack as a true vampire, and could even dispel it.

That's the key word. You said you'd rewatch, not reread. In the OVA she's briefly affected by the large illusion, but in the manga she's basically unaffected from the start.

That scene plays out slightly differently in the manga, I think. Plus he was about to shoot Integra and then just stopped.

Fair, I will have to also check the manga after rewatching.

That's not what I said. I said they could detect the encroaching level 0.

They were terrified the moment he announced himself, and Anderson stated that everyone could feel the encroaching danger. It was well before the army appeared and before he dissolved into shadows and tendrils. Before then he could have just been being theatrical about introducing himself. And yet everyone suddenly became terrified.

Considering that Integra made the very public announcement about him releasing restraint Level 0, and that he was visibly enacting some manner of arcane activation, I think the expressions of terror were simply a logical reaction.
Not only is everyone present well-aware of Alucard and his reputation, but he is clearly displaying hostile intentions and has begun releasing his dark powers.

Anderson's line pertains more to everyone's individual realization that they're all ******. When a group of people realize that an unfamiliar bomb falling toward the city is going to kill them, that's not the bomb having fearhax. Also iirc it is very much after Alucard has started shifting into shadows and everyone is fruitlessly trying to attack him and seeing it not work.
All in all, it's a legitimately terrifying situation in which "sensing your encroaching doom" is a very normal thing to do.

Maybe. It's a couple forms of defence if nothing else.

True, true

So it is true? I was genuinely asking, since I didn't know for sure.

I have no idea if it's true since I can't speak for him. I am neutral on that topic, I more just meant it in the sense that we all have our biases.

... Are you allowed to say that? If Weekly shows up to arrest you for thinking that, do you know your rights?

I know a couple of them at least.

 

[Random-Helper323]

The illusion scaling still doesn't sound right to me but I will have to rewatch (and reread) to confirm so for now I will trust your judgement.

That aside, I don't think it's reasonable to make the assumption that Zorin's hand-eye is meant to be equivalent to a proper vampire's Third Eye, as its functions, usage, and appearance are all completely different and it's never even referenced in the same context.
Them simply being somewhat inferior copies of Alucard is a bit of a misinterpretation as there are multiple degrees of separation there

They are copied from Mina, who is an incomplete vampire made by Alucard. Walter even says they've been imitating Alucard.

And, as mentioned before, Alucard specifically says that the vampires produced by Millenium already do not possess the typical abilities of a proper vampire.

What was said was they always produced ghouls (Alucard had nuns in his ghoul army, so he can obviously make ghouls out of female virgins too) and that Luke was above any vampire Alucard had met.

And that's even beside the fact that no other member of the millions-strong vampire army possesses any similar third eye imagery or abilities.

... Millions? I'm sorry? Are we thinking of the same army? The Last Battalion stated to have less than a thousand members?

We see from Luke, the Dandyman, and Winkle that stronger Millenium vampires possess completely unique and independent abilities unrelated to Alucard's own, and that he gains these abilities after absorbing them

Luke had physical power, an inferior level to that of Alucard. Rip had super marksmanship and telekinesis, both abilities Alucard possesses. Tubalcain had telekinesis, enhanced physicality and illusions in the OVA only, all of which Alucard has. Tubalcain and Rip also both have special weapons, much like the special weapons made by Hellsing and Iscariot.

Zorin's illusory eye seems to be another example of such a unique ability, rather than an expression of something inherited from Alucard.

She literally has a third eye, which she uses to cast illusions, sort of like how Alucard can cast illusions and talks about a metaphysical third eye, and it is a vampiric ability gained from Mina, a vampire who is an incomplete creation of Alucard's. The Doctor even says in The Dawn that without Mina their research would have nothing.

Considering that Integra made the very public announcement about him releasing restraint Level 0

Are we sure everyone heard her? It seemed like Alucard reached out to her telepathically. Hard for the whole of two armies to hear her voice so clearly.

and that he was visibly enacting some manner of arcane activation

He yelled out an introduction, not exactly an arcane spell. He yelled that he was the Bird of Hermes. If he'd slammed his hand on the ground and a huge rune appeared under him I'd agree, but not in this case.

, I think the expressions of terror were simply a logical reaction.
Not only is everyone present well-aware of Alucard and his reputation, but he is clearly displaying hostile intentions and has begun releasing his dark powers.

Dark powers which they can't see yet, and Anderson stated that everyone could feel it.

Anderson's line pertains more to everyone's individual realization that they're all ******.

And how did Alucard communicate that to them by saying he was the Bird of Hermes?

. Also iirc it is very much after Alucard has started shifting into shadows and everyone is fruitlessly trying to attack him and seeing it not work.

Anderson and the Captain both got scared and attacked the moment he yelled. They both sprang into action at the same time despite not working together. All after standing in front of him long enough to say the whole line and time for Integra to give her drawn out speech.

I have no idea if it's true since I can't speak for him. I am neutral on that topic, I more just meant it in the sense that we all have our biases.

... Is suggesting someone like Weekly has any bias at all safe for you? They say that you can pick the authoritarian bullies because they are the ones you can't safely criticise.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

They are copied from Mina, who is an incomplete vampire made by Alucard. Walter even says they've been imitating Alucard.

What was said was they always produced ghouls (Alucard had nuns in his ghoul army, so he can obviously make ghouls out of female virgins too) and that Luke was above any vampire Alucard had met.

Alucard in particular mentions them being unable to turn into mist or bats, which establishes that they're lacking abilities vampires should normally have. And yes they are imitating Alucard, but imperfectly, and don't even slightly resemble him in their abilities beyond the basic vampire attributes of blood-drinking, physicals, and immortality.
There is also the matter of the cards and magic bullets clearly being unique powers that don't reflect preexisting abilities of Alucard's, as are Luke's speedster abilities. Alucard only utilizes them after they have been absorbed, and was never shown with telekinesis of such precision or range.

... Millions? I'm sorry? Are we thinking of the same army? The Last Battalion stated to have less than a thousand members?

I am bad with numbers
Has anyone ever done one of those killcount videos for Hellsing? I wanna see if the numbers are consistent

Are we sure everyone heard her? It seemed like Alucard reached out to her telepathically. Hard for the whole of two armies to hear her voice so clearly.

Fair

He yelled out an introduction, not exactly an arcane spell. He yelled that he was the Bird of Hermes. If he'd slammed his hand on the ground and a huge rune appeared under him I'd agree, but not in this case.

Dark powers which they can't see yet, and Anderson stated that everyone could feel it.

Ahhh I just looked at the manga and that is indeed different than the anime. My bad.
However, with the wording and the situation, this would still not be Fear Manip, but Danger Sense for those involved.
Which is a common issue anyway. Danger Sense and Fear Manip are often portrayed similarly, particularly in anime and manga, though the former is both less common and requires much more substantial evidence.

... Is suggesting someone like Weekly has any bias at all safe for you? They say that you can pick the authoritarian bullies because they are the ones you can't safely criticise.

Me and Weekly are friends elsewhere, and I have very little presence on this vile forum anyway, so even if he would pursue action against such a perspective (which I highly doubt he would) I don't particularly care.

 

[Jason_Courne]

Smoke Manipulation

He created a fog over London (although that better fits storm manipulation)

Soul Manipulation (Possesses at least 120,000 souls inside his body)

The train of thought is that Alucard can simply use one of his thousands of souls as decoys rather than letting his "core" soul be targetted by attacks or manipulation (which is somewhat seen with his Low Godly regeneration)

• Resistance to Illusion Creation, Mind Manipulation (Alucard possesses a third eye which he can use to break out of illusions and hypnotize others much like Seras)
  • In the same vein as Seras, it should be specified that this is not passive and needs to be activated to work

Alucard should probably get that stuff passively, Seras after consuming Pip, could easily resist Zorin Blitz's mind shenanigans just by simply having another soul within herself

 

[Random-Helper323]

Alucard in particular mentions them being unable to turn into mist or bats, which establishes that they're lacking abilities vampires should normally have.

Abilities only Alucard himself has ever displayed. An ability Anderson didn't understand when he saw it.

There is also the matter of the cards and magic bullets clearly being unique powers that don't reflect preexisting abilities of Alucard's

The cards and bullets are weapons with enhanced strength, much like the weapons Hellsing and Iscariot make. They wield them telekinetically, an ability Alucard displays.

as are Luke's speedster abilities. Alucard only utilizes them after they have been absorbed

Even after Alucard proved he was faster by catching Luke with bullets and Baskerville, and despite Alucard and Anderson still having similar speed to each other?

and was never shown with telekinesis of such precision or range.

It was enough to grab every drop of blood across all of London, arguably longer range and more precision required.

However, with the wording and the situation, this would still not be Fear Manip, but Danger Sense for those involved.

Even the normal humans from the crusade group? It would be debatable if it was just vampires, but two thousand humans all instantly crapped their robes too.

Me and Weekly are friends elsewhere, and I have very little presence on this vile forum anyway, so even if he would pursue action against such a perspective (which I highly doubt he would) I don't particularly care.

I don't really think so, I'm just teasing. He had his definite faults back in the day, but there were worse people around by far. I honestly have a neutral opinion of Weekly.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Oh boy...

 

[WeeklyBattles]

He created a fog over London (although that better fits storm manipulation)

Ye, fog is basically just a cloud thats near the ground, weather manip is more suiting than smoke manip

The train of thought is that Alucard can simply use one of his thousands of souls as decoys rather than letting his "core" soul be targetted by attacks or manipulation (which is somewhat seen with his Low Godly regeneration)

A few years ago that would have ben fine but we've sorta moved away from the whole 'bigger numbers = more potency/better resistances' thing and go by layers for resistance now

Alucard should probably get that stuff passively, Seras after consuming Pip, could easily resist Zorin Blitz's mind shenanigans just by simply having another soul within herself

I mean she pretty explicitly had to activate her Third Eye to break out of it and was affected before doing so, it was only after she activated it that Zorin couldnt affect her

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I always said it was more of a multilayered hax. Vampires have one layer of resistance and stronger vampires have two.

Ye, either way you slice it it wouldnt be resistance negation, just slightly potent illusion hax

Seras already knew it wasn't real, and wasn't fully affected by it. Given that she doesn't know how to use her abilities at that point, we can't say it has to be activated each time either. We also know that her resistance to the illusions and ability to dispel them is seperate.

You've left a lot out here. You've leapt right from when Seras has just instinctively adapted to her first illusion to after she gains her true powers and eats stronger illusions for breakfast.

Seras could resist Zorin's illusions when they were cast on an area, couldn't resist them when they were cast on her directly, and then gained more resistance and suddenly could resist them when she couldn't before. It seems like double-layered resistance and hax to me.

I feel like that can be choked up to a difference between fledgling seras vs full vampire seras in terms of resistance

Funny thing about it is Rip became more scared after he telepathically reached out, but there are other feats of fear stuff, like Integra's uncle being terrified before Alucard even showed himself, and everyone being instinctively afraid of him the moment he released level 0. Anderson even states that everyone can feel the presence approaching. And it was enough to make Anderson back off. This is a guy who never backs off from anything.

I mean yeah? If there was a guy who your boss explicitly said would easily kill you if you fought, and then you suddenly heard that guy talking to you in your head saying that he was coming to kill you, that would freak you out pretty damn badly. Richard was only scared after Alucard's corpse woke up ad started killing stuff. As for the level zero stuff, seeing Alucard commanding a tidal wave of blood and zombies large enough to flood a city would freak anyone out. The most arguable thing is Anderson, but even then thats just him sensing Alucard's increased power from Level 0 and being cautious, that wouldnt automatically be fear manip.

It is a bit uncertain, but it does at least give some protection to soul manipulation. If someone has something that fries a single soul for example, Alucard will withstand it. If it has a provable limit to how many souls it can target at once as well. In addition, those souls are stored in hammer space, granting more protection.

A few years ago that would have been fine but we've sorta moved away from the whole 'bigger numbers = more potency/better resistances' thing and go by layers for resistance now

Do you actually attempt to downgrade anything that fights Ryuko? I know you tend to oppose verses just because they're common "rivals" to your preferred franchises, which seems like a waste of mental energy to me, but oh well, whatever works for you.

That rather uncalled for, a lot of people ive shown the recent revision to disagree heavily with it, as do i, i was just the one who got to the CRT first

 

[The_Pink_God]

two thousand humans

The correct number would be 3447 humans

 

[LordGinSama]

Random essentially said everything that needs to be said. However I will in fact go over some things that I think he didn't tackle quite accordingly.

This is a bit misleading. For the former, the platoon of soldiers was waiting for Alucard with full knowledge that he was an armed combatant who had singlehandedly wiped out another whole platoon seconds before, said platoon having been on the other side of the door they were waiting at, and then came out without a scratch. Thats not fear manipulation, thats just Alucard being intimidating and the soldiers being afraid of fighting a monster.

This is leaving out a lot of context. First of all the part that I just highlighted is a literal and blatant lie. They were never given any information on Alucard nor his regeneration. It's outright stated that they're only there for his coffin and his coffin alone, while also explicitly stating that thats all what their superiors to them.


They have zero idea on who their fighting so it's incredibly dishonest of you to say they know who Alucard is, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren't aware of the order of events.

Not really? We don't even know if Millenium vampires possess a third eye or if it's something exclusive to true vampires like Alucard and Seras. We already know from Alucard's comment to Edward Cullen in episode 1 that the "third and fourth-rate" vampires produced by Milenium are unable to perform certain abilities that Nosferatu should possess, and Zorin's additional eye is clearly not the same as Seras or Alucard's.

We know for a fact they do, Millennium made their vampires from the DNA of one of Alucard’s fledglings, Mina Harker who was a True Vampire at the time. All of their vampires have all of Alucard’s basic Vampire traits.


Honestly it seems like you in particular are only bring "I doubt that." as an argument. Argument from disbelief is not a legitimate argument, me saying they don't have Third Eyes despite being a vampire is like me saying fodder Shinigami in Bleach don't have RC for being fodder. It's a basic vampiric trait, one that Millennium got from Alucard's very own DNA.



Secondly, I find it doubtful they were told how and what killed the first squadron. This is evident of them not ******** themselves upon hearing the information that an immortal regenerative vampire just slaughtered them all. It's not like they were intimidated by the mutilated bodies, matter of fact the darkness in the room is blocking their vision. Alucard doesn't even begin to attack here, they simply freeze at his sight and panic.

As for the latter, with added context, Rip wasnt terrified by some supernatural fear aura, she was terrified of Alucard because hes...Alucard, someone who the Major directly told her would kill her if they fought.

First of all, again you are intentionally wording things a little different. The Major never said that Alucard would in fact kill her, but rather left it open as a possibility. She obviously wasn't scared of Alucard being well Alucard as she could fight against him for an amount of time.


It also doesn't help your case with the Wank-Winkle example since Alucard was actively using his mind control / telepathy to **** with her.

 

[LordGinSama]

However, I would rather avoid wanking my man Al regardless, and would rather him be debated by his proper merits.

"Wank." sure if it's wank according to your own personal definition of the term which I don't care much for.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I agree on yeeting resistance negation and resistance to soul hax.

It is a bit uncertain, but it does at least give some protection to soul manipulation. If someone has something that fries a single soul for example, Alucard will withstand it. If it has a provable limit to how many souls it can target at once as well. In addition, those souls are stored in hammer space, granting morer Protection.

So, there is a difference between targeting all the souls within the world and the soul/s within 1 body. Our standard cover the first one as a part of the could be potency and likewise resistance while the second one is assumed to be exactly the same as the rest (examples like FMA) unless it gets elaboration as to why it should count as a resistance (like Dies Irae soul stocks and soul armor).

In short, having many souls inside you doesn't grant an inherent resistance to soul manip unless it gets elaborated on.

That's if we go with the page but currently (and despite what the page says) the resistance for soul manip and many other haxes are measured in layers (and I think Bob of all people made a thread for that).

 

[Deceived3596]

Removals:

• Smoke Manipulation
  • Not even sure why he has this tbh
• Resistance Negation (Much like Zorin who can hypnotize vampires with the third eye)
  • This is less Resistance Negation and more due to the Third Eye not being passive, Seras broke out of Zorin's illusions the second Alucard told her she could activate her Third Eye, and then was unaffected by Zorin using her illusions directly on her later in the fight
• Fear Manipulation (His mere presence was enough to make dozens of soldiers tremble and panic. Without even getting into action Alucard could make Rip Van Winkle kneel in despair)
  • This is a bit misleading. For the former, the platoon of soldiers was waiting for Alucard with full knowledge that he was an armed combatant who had singlehandedly wiped out another whole platoon seconds before, said platoon having been on the other side of the door they were waiting at, and then came out without a scratch. Thats not fear manipulation, thats just Alucard being intimidating and the soldiers being afraid of fighting a monster. As for the latter, with added context, Rip wasnt terrified by some supernatural fear aura, she was terrified of Alucard because hes...Alucard, someone who the Major directly told her would kill her if they fought.
• Soul Manipulation (Possesses at least 120,000 souls inside his body)
  • This wouldnt actually grant a resistance to soul manipulation. Having multiple souls doesnt mean they are able to resist soul manipulation any more than an individual soul does. His immortality via soul stock is already covered in his immortality section anyways.

I believe that's from Alucard generating that massive amount of fog after taking control over that warship, but i could be wrong, but if i'm right then Smoke Manipulation is perfectly fine since Smoke Manipulation also accounts for abilities which manipulate vapors, and fog is just condensed water vapor.

Resistance Negation should absolutely go, the fact that was accepted in the first place is atrocious since nothing in those scans proves that Zorin was negating the resistance of those vampires to affect them with her hypnosis, you need either heavy implications, which don't exist in those scans, or direct statements of one's resistances being negated, which also don't exist in those scans. It's a potency feat at best.

I agree those feats in specific aren't Fear Manipulation, but it's been said that there's other feats which do prove Fear Manipulation, rather than someone just doing an action which is considered scary, or having a reputation of being terrifying, so i'll wait until those are provided before completely throwing away the ability itself.

It's more so an unconventional resistance to Soul Manipulation if anything, since you need to have been shown capable of destroying multiple souls with your attack(s) to substantially "affect" Alucard, as if you're only capable of destroying singular amount of souls, than Alucard wouldn't be "affected" to any substantial degree since he's still has more souls within himself. But this could be just an inherent effect of his Type 8, so i don't particularly care if this is removed or not.

Additions:

• Corruption (As a vampire, Alucard can make other people into a vampire or ghoul by sucking their blood)
  • This can actually double asPower Bestowal
• Darkness Manipulation (Created several dozen shadow arms), Body Control (Could create lots of hands)
  • This also qualifies for Additional Limbs
• Surface Scaling
  • Alucard has shown the ability to run up walls before
• Weather Manipulation
  • The main feat he is scaled to is manipulating a large amount of fog. This should be obvious lol
• Holy Manipulation
  • The bullets fired by Casull are made from the melted silver Christian cross from Manchester Cathedral, while the bullets fired by Jackal are jacketed with a casing of Macedonian silver and each bullet is individually blessed. Nuff said
• Multiple Selves
  • "In regards to Alucard's many forms, Hirano had stated that he no longer cares about being a woman, or a man; to which, Alucard eventually said a line relating to this in Volume 9 of Hellsing. Continuing, Hirano said that Alucard took so many lives; and therefore, those lives eventually altered Alucard's personal identity. The "Control Art Restriction System" comes into play to help suppress this. His initial personality is male, so he took that as his basic form."
• Resistance to Illusion Creation, Mind Manipulation (Alucard possesses a third eye which he can use to break out of illusions and hypnotize others much like Seras)
  • This would qualify for a limited form of Power Nullification

Agree with all of this.

Adjustments:

• Intangibility (Can phase through walls)
  • Not sure why it isnt listed but Alucard can also become intangible by turning into blood and shadows, ie. both immaterial and elemental intangibility. Technically his ability to transform into a swarm of bats would also qualify, albeit to a much lesser extent than the other three.
• Flight
  • Outside of his swarm of bats form this should be noted as being Pseudo-flight or Restricted flight, the most he ever did was during the Battle of London, where he just did a high jump from the aircraft carrier and then a slow fall Steven Universe style
• Resistance to Holy Manipulation
  • A scan for him shrugging off Anderson's holy bayonets as a justification for this would be appreciated, i know he resists it but still.
• Illusion Creation
  • Not sure why he only has this via scaling to Zorin, he displayed it himself against both Tubalcain and Walter
• Resistance to Illusion Creation, Mind Manipulation (Alucard possesses a third eye which he can use to break out of illusions and hypnotize others much like Seras)
  • In the same vein as Seras, it should be specified that this is not passive and needs to be activated to work

Agree with this as well.

Stat Revision coming soon

I'll be waiting for the spice, you better not disappoint

 

[Ped2018]

you better not disappoint

It's weekly

 

[Deceived3596]

@WeeklyBattles

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Random essentially said everything that needs to be said. However I will in fact go over some things that I think he didn't tackle quite accordingly.

This is leaving out a lot of context. First of all the part that I just highlighted is a literal and blatant lie. They were never given any information on Alucard nor his regeneration. It's outright stated that they're only there for his coffin and his coffin alone, while also explicitly stating that thats all what their superiors to them.

They have zero idea on who their fighting so it's incredibly dishonest of you to say they know who Alucard is, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren't aware of the order of events.

I was more referring to the fact that the soldiers in the hallway were standing on the other side of the door to the room where there was an audible firefight, they would have had to be completely deaf to not hear them getting massacred by Alucard. Hell the last guy to die in that room shot himself in the head while propped up against that same door. Whether they knew who Alucard was or not doesnt mean much, what the knew at the time was the guy in the room violently slaughtered everyone in there and walked away without a scratch.

We know for a fact they do, Millennium made their vampires from the DNA of one of Alucard’s fledglings, Mina Harker who was a True Vampire at the time. All of their vampires have all of Alucard’s basic Vampire traits.

Honestly it seems like you in particular are only bring "I doubt that." as an argument. Argument from disbelief is not a legitimate argument, me saying they don't have Third Eyes despite being a vampire is like me saying fodder Shinigami in Bleach don't have RC for being fodder. It's a basic vampiric trait, one that Millennium got from Alucard's very own DNA.

I mean either way its just not resistance negation, whether or not fledgling or millenium's vampires have the resistance doesnt make much of a difference

Secondly, I find it doubtful they were told how and what killed the first squadron. This is evident of them not ******** themselves upon hearing the information that an immortal regenerative vampire just slaughtered them all. It's not like they were intimidated by the mutilated bodies, matter of fact the darkness in the room is blocking their vision. Alucard doesn't even begin to attack here, they simply freeze at his sight and panic.

Refer to my previous comment

First of all, again you are intentionally wording things a little different. The Major never said that Alucard would in fact kill her, but rather left it open as a possibility. She obviously wasn't scared of Alucard being well Alucard as she could fight against him for an amount of time.

It also doesn't help your case with the Wank-Winkle example since Alucard was actively using his mind control / telepathy to **** with her.

The mans literally stood plank still letting her shoot him with her rifle and then caught her magic bullet in his teeth and crushed it like it was nothing. If there was a guy who your boss explicitly said could easily kill you if you fought, and then you suddenly heard that guy talking to you in your head saying that he was coming to kill you, that would freak you out pretty damn badly. Did you ever find a scan that confirms he was mind controlling her?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I believe that's from Alucard generating that massive amount of fog after taking control over that warship, but i could be wrong, but if i'm right then Smoke Manipulation is perfectly fine since Smoke Manipulation also accounts for abilities which manipulate vapors, and fog is just condensed water vapor.

Huh, i see, guess fog kinda falls into an overlap area between smoke manip and weather manip then

I agree those feats in specific aren't Fear Manipulation, but it's been said that there's other feats which do prove Fear Manipulation, rather than someone just doing an action which is considered scary, or having a reputation of being terrifying, so i'll wait until those are provided before completely throwing away the ability itself.

I'd like to see those feats as well, as the current stuff thats been brought up is just different instances of Alucard being intimidating or freaking people out by just being himself

Hellsing Fear Manip be like

It's more so an unconventional resistance to Soul Manipulation if anything, since you need to have been shown capable of destroying multiple souls with your attack(s) to substantially "affect" Alucard, as if you're only capable of destroying singular amount of souls, than Alucard wouldn't be "affected" to any substantial degree since he's still has more souls within himself. But this could be just an inherent effect of his Type 8, so i don't particularly care if this is removed or not.

Like i said before, a few years ago that would have ben fine but we've sorta moved away from the whole 'bigger numbers = more potency/better resistances' thing and go by layers for resistance now

I'll be waiting for the spice, you better not disappoint

Ye, the second one will go up once this is concluded

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Aight gimme a sec to respond to a bunch

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Big post time

Alucard should probably get that stuff passively, Seras after consuming Pip, could easily resist Zorin Blitz's mind shenanigans just by simply having another soul within herself

Agreed

Abilities only Alucard himself has ever displayed. An ability Anderson didn't understand when he saw it.

When did Anderson ever not understand Alucard's abilities, aside from being caught off guard by his resistance to what would normally kill one?

The cards and bullets are weapons with enhanced strength, much like the weapons Hellsing and Iscariot make. They wield them telekinetically, an ability Alucard displays.

Alucard never wielded weapons telekinetically. His TK was only ever used to move a ship and to close doors, which is massively imprecise compared to the nonsense Winkle and Dandyman can pull off.
Even if you assume their abilities are only because of their special weapons, that still doesn't imply that they would have third eyes like Zorin.
Zorin's eye is more likely an artificial implant, and shouldn't be assumed to function the same as a proper third eye.

Even after Alucard proved he was faster by catching Luke with bullets and Baskerville, and despite Alucard and Anderson still having similar speed to each other?

He did not catch Luke with bullets. Luke was hit twice, both times only after being caught off guard and emotionally compromised.
Baskerville attacked and devoured a crippled and immobile Luke.
There is nothing to suggest Anderson scales to Luke in speed.
When Waler took control of Luke and Baskerville, Alucard continues to praise him and exclaims that his abilities were wasted on Baskerville.

It was enough to grab every drop of blood across all of London, arguably longer range and more precision required.

That is due to his absorption abilities, nothing indicates TK. He was able to absorb all of London because it was a massive river of blood drawn into him.

Even the normal humans from the crusade group? It would be debatable if it was just vampires, but two thousand humans all instantly crapped their robes too.

The ability to sense that something is wrong, and that that the big scary thing is about to do something big and scary does not give the big scary thing fearhax. It is a very normal thing to instinctively happen.
On top of that, there is nothing to suggest this fear would affect someone who was not, in fact, in danger from or scared of Alucard's unknown abilities, which is what fearhax would imply.
Thus Danger Sense is more likely. (However, in my opinion, we currently do not have a term to properly address such a situation. I would prefer if we had a term like "limited fearhax" or something, when a character broadcasts their threat level like this. I've seen people use 'Aura', but I don't know if that covers it properly)

I don't really think so, I'm just teasing. He had his definite faults back in the day, but there were worse people around by far. I honestly have a neutral opinion of Weekly.

Ah that's good then. I'd be careful about that kind of wording though, I thought you were being completely serious.

He created a fog over London (although that better fits storm manipulation)

When? I don't doubt that he did, I just don't remember that.

This is leaving out a lot of context. First of all the part that I just highlighted is a literal and blatant lie. They were never given any information on Alucard nor his regeneration. It's outright stated that they're only there for his coffin and his coffin alone, while also explicitly stating that thats all what their superiors to them.


They have zero idea on who their fighting so it's incredibly dishonest of you to say they know who Alucard is, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren't aware of the order of events.

When you send your squad in to kill a guy
and you hear a whole bunch of screaming and gunfire
and the freaky-looking red-eyed dude who a whole squad just went in to kill comes waltzing out,
armed,
grinning,
and unharmed,
that shit is scary.
Ain't no prior knowledge or fearhax needed.
The lack of prior knowledge would, in fact, make it even more scary for any normal person.

We know for a fact they do, Millennium made their vampires from the DNA of one of Alucard’s fledglings, Mina Harker who was a True Vampire at the time. All of their vampires have all of Alucard’s basic Vampire traits.

They do not possess shapeshifting, mind control, intangibility, bats, mist transformations, soul absorption, vampire infections, shadow forms, familiars, extensive regeneration, sensory amps, third eyes (from what we can tell), etc.
They most assuredly do not have all of his vampiric traits.

It's a basic vampiric trait, one that Millennium got from Alucard's very own DNA.

So are soul absorption and shapeshifting, going off of Seras and Alucard,
Along with mist and bat transformations, familiar summoning, and the healing of severed limbs, as per word of Alucard himself.
And yet Millenium vampires do not possess them.
Integra even calls them "shoddy" and "third and fourth-rate vampires", implying that they are very much imperfect and more limited than they should be.

First of all, again you are intentionally wording things a little different. The Major never said that Alucard would in fact kill her, but rather left it open as a possibility. She obviously wasn't scared of Alucard being well Alucard as she could fight against him for an amount of time.

"Having trifled with the Black Huntsman Zamiel, he is killed, his soul ripped away to hell, and he is thrown into a ravine to be eaten by wolves. Beware Miss Van Winkle, Zamiel now comes for you"
Said as a warning about trifling with Alucard.
Someone who she clearly has prior knowledge of and knows is ******* scary, and didn't expect to be the one they send after her, indicated by her belief that her purpose was to commandeer the ship and use it as an ongoing base, rather than to distract Alucard as the Major intended.

It also doesn't help your case with the Wank-Winkle example since Alucard was actively using his mind control / telepathy to **** with her.

Yeah
He talked in her head
Which spooked her, quite reasonably.
Because she knew that he could and would superkill her.
Also I read that as Rip Van Wankle for a second, which is funny and I'm gonna use that now

"Wank." sure if it's wank according to your own personal definition of the term which I don't care much for.

Uhhh, cool?
What is your personal definition of the term then?
I was under the impression it had a pretty specific meaning amongst most people here.

 

[The_Pink_God]

When? I don't doubt that he did, I just don't remember that.

I think he meant Dome

 

[Random-Helper323]

When did Anderson ever not understand Alucard's abilities, aside from being caught off guard by his resistance to what would normally kill one?

More accurately he didn't seem to be familiar with the ability to turn into a swarm of bats. It's an ability no other vampire in the series ever displays, including Seras. Alucard seems to have been comparing that loser to his own abilities, probably because that loser was so arrogant about his abilities.

Alucard never wielded weapons telekinetically. His TK was only ever used to move a ship and to close doors, which is massively imprecise compared to the nonsense Winkle and Dandyman can pull off.

His telekinesis and weather control feats are actually far above theirs in power, so...

Even if you assume their abilities are only because of their special weapons, that still doesn't imply that they would have third eyes like Zorin.

No, they have weapons which they use with their own power, it's not only their weapons. And it's obvious each one was focused on certain things, but all those abilities were ripped off from Alucard. Tubalcain for example had the greatest physical power, but still lesser than Alucard's.

Zorin's eye is more likely an artificial implant, and shouldn't be assumed to function the same as a proper third eye.

Except that it allows her to read and manipulate minds just like the third eye, is vampiric in nature just like the third eye, and is a literal third eye.

He did not catch Luke with bullets. Luke was hit twice, both times only after being caught off guard and emotionally compromised.

He attempted to run and Alucard shot him from behind. Clearly the bullet was too fast to outrun. And Alucard remained the same speed afterwards. We know because he and Anderson were still comparable, and he and the Captain were still comparable. And if that speed wasn't part of Alucard's abilities but became so after eating Luke, an honestly ridiculous headcanon to be blunt, then Seras shouldn't have had the speed to fight the Captain, who was still as fast as Alucard, since Seras never ate Luke or any other Millennium vampire.

Baskerville attacked and devoured a crippled and immobile Luke.
There is nothing to suggest Anderson scales to Luke in speed.

Except that Alucard caught Luke, Anderson was as quick as Alucard, Anderson is above Luke in every way, Walter effortlessly caught Luke, Alucard could trade blows with Walter, the same Alucard Anderson could trade blows with... It certainly doesn't help that Luke doesn't even have a speed feat to scale by anyway, so this is honestly more headcanon.

When Waler took control of Luke and Baskerville, Alucard continues to praise him and exclaims that his abilities were wasted on Baskerville.

He stated he was better than just dog food, which basically means very little. He essentially said he wasn't as worthless as he initially said he was.

That is due to his absorption abilities, nothing indicates TK. He was able to absorb all of London because it was a massive river of blood drawn into him.

Blood which wasn't touching him, which was all over the city, which wasn't all together, and which swirled around in a way which contradicts him just turning into a blood magnet or something. That's also contradicted by Schrodinger's blood falling when he first cut himself instead of flying sideways.

The ability to sense that something is wrong, and that that the big scary thing is about to do something big and scary does not give the big scary thing fearhax. It is a very normal thing to instinctively happen.
On top of that, there is nothing to suggest this fear would affect someone who was not, in fact, in danger from or scared of Alucard's unknown abilities, which is what fearhax would imply.
Thus Danger Sense is more likely. (However, in my opinion, we currently do not have a term to properly address such a situation. I would prefer if we had a term like "limited fearhax" or something, when a character broadcasts their threat level like this. I've seen people use 'Aura', but I don't know if that covers it properly)

Admittedly better examples exist, like where the character looks the other in the eye and the other one instantly feels terrified and shaken to the core, but what you're describing is still essentially fear hax, despite you reframing it as a special extrasensory ability all living beings apparently possess; an extrasensory perception of danger which alerted everyone to be terrified of Alucard's incoming ability but didn't alert anyone to the impending attacks by Millennium or Iscariot.

They do not possess shapeshifting, mind control, intangibility, bats, mist transformations, soul absorption, vampire infections, shadow forms, familiars, extensive regeneration, sensory amps, third eyes (from what we can tell), etc.
They most assuredly do not have all of his vampiric traits.

Neither do any other vampires we meet, and even Seras, the closest thing to another Alucard, lacks the intangibility, mind control, mist and shadow and bat transformations, and much of the regeneration. And given that Zorin does have mind control and a very literal third eye, those abilities are arguably there in Millennium, just never achieved to Alucard's level.

Integra even calls them "shoddy" and "third and fourth-rate vampires", implying that they are very much imperfect and more limited than they should be.

This was said of the vampires Millennium had been releasing to just wreak havok. Vampires like the losers in the house. Soon after that Alucard said Luke was one of the strongest vampires he'd ever met. He was impressed with Tubalcain as well. There's obviously an enormous difference between the losers in the house and the stronger Millennium vampires. The two losers were obviously prototypes.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Ye, either way you slice it it wouldnt be resistance negation, just slightly potent illusion hax

Two layers, that's what I'm saying. I don't know about negation.

I feel like that can be choked up to a difference between fledgling seras vs full vampire seras in terms of resistance

Yeah, one layer as opposed to two.

As for the level zero stuff, seeing Alucard commanding a tidal wave of blood and zombies large enough to flood a city would freak anyone out.

They explicitly freaked out before that, the moment he declared he was a self-harming flightless bird with an overly edgy nickname.

The most arguable thing is Anderson, but even then thats just him sensing Alucard's increased power from Level 0 and being cautious, that wouldnt automatically be fear manip.

It's the fact that everyone from humans to the Captain all freaked out simultaneously, like flicking a switch, despite not being in sync otherwise at all.

A few years ago that would have been fine but we've sorta moved away from the whole 'bigger numbers = more potency/better resistances' thing and go by layers for resistance now

It's more that many soul hax can't target more than one soul at a time, or can't reach a soul in hammer space. It's an unconventional form of defence.

That rather uncalled for, a lot of people ive shown the recent revision to disagree heavily with it, as do i, i was just the one who got to the CRT first

In all fairness, I've seen you hate on stuff because it rivalled your verse in VS forums, and there are many people who do the same, even if a self-improvement nut like me sees that as an unhealthy way of thinking. Although unless the verse is literally written to attack real life people or includes some truly awful moral ideals, it's an unhealthy waste of energy to hate on just about any verse.

In regards to revisions, knee-jerk reactions honestly mean little. Remember all the knee-jerk reactions over Goku vs Superman with people saying Superman does nothing to match DBZ in that Superman movie they saw with all the flying scenes and the funny costume, therefore Superman is weak. My initial knee-jerk response was to disagree with upgrades of this extent too. It was only after discussing it with LordGinSama that I altered some of my perspectives.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

More accurately he didn't seem to be familiar with the ability to turn into a swarm of bats. It's an ability no other vampire in the series ever displays, including Seras. Alucard seems to have been comparing that loser to his own abilities, probably because that loser was so arrogant about his abilities.

Unfortunately it's rather unclear because we never actually see a proper vampire besides Alucard and Seras (and I think possibly that priest from episode 1 who literally only existed to get mogged by Alucard). But considering the specific wording of Alucard's rant against Edward, it seems like that is indeed supposed to be something that vampires can normally do. And Anderson wasn't indicated to be unfamiliar with bats, he was caught off guard by them swarming through the windows and was surprised that Alucard was still alive.

His telekinesis and weather control feats are actually far above theirs in power, so...

In power, absolutely. What I said was precision and range.

Except that it allows her to read and manipulate minds just like the third eye, is vampiric in nature just like the third eye, and is a literal third eye.

The Third Eye is never shown to be what allows Alucard to use mind manip. Its express usage is for shooting and for breaking free of illusions, both things entirely distinct from anything Zorin uses hers for.
And even if we assume all vampire powers are "an imitation of Alucard", then why are none of the other multitudes of vampires shown with anything else even slightly resembling a third eye?

He attempted to run and Alucard shot him from behind. Clearly the bullet was too fast to outrun.

The same kind of bullet that he was clearly dodging prior to getting spooked? The bullet that was fired from behind where he couldn't see it? After he was already disoriented and and delirious from fear?
Or the second one that was fired at him while he was literally hobbling along on his one remaining leg?

And Alucard remained the same speed afterwards. We know because he and Anderson were still comparable, and he and the Captain were still comparable. And if that speed wasn't part of Alucard's abilities but became so after eating Luke, an honestly ridiculous headcanon to be blunt, then Seras shouldn't have had the speed to fight the Captain, who was still as fast as Alucard, since Seras never ate Luke or any other Millennium vampire.

It didn't become part of Alucard's abilities, that's the whole point of his comment that he wasted Luke's powers on Baskerville.
Alucard didn't even bother properly absorbing Luke, he just fed him to Baskerville and ostensibly assumed he had no use for Luke's powers after he realized Luke was a bitch.
Nobody is ever shown to match Luke's speed, far from it in fact, which makes sense considering that seems to be his whole thing.

ALSO, Luke says he has the sum total of Alucard's vampiric powers, and more.
This is immediately proven false, of course, but that implies that the Millenium vampires don't even know the full extent of what kinds of abilities a proper vampire is supposed to possess.
Which makes sense since they're derived from Mina. And while yes, Mina's bizarre nature was a product of Alucard, she is by no means the same type of being at all.

Except that Alucard caught Luke, Anderson was as quick as Alucard, Anderson is above Luke in every way, Walter effortlessly caught Luke, Alucard could trade blows with Walter, the same Alucard Anderson could trade blows with... It certainly doesn't help that Luke doesn't even have a speed feat to scale by anyway, so this is honestly more headcanon.

Alucard never caught Luke
Walter didn't "catch" Luke, he grabbed him while he was in the process of trying to crawl out of a dead dog.
Luke's entire thing is speed. It's his one unique ability, and the only thing that Alucard would be praising both times he gives Luke accolades.

Blood which wasn't touching him, which was all over the city, which wasn't all together, and which swirled around in a way which contradicts him just turning into a blood magnet or something. That's also contradicted by Schrodinger's blood falling when he first cut himself instead of flying sideways.

I could've sworn it was all together and that was precisely why he could absorb everyone. Another thing to recheck I suppose.
Regardless, I think it is entirely reasonable to assume that yes, Alucard can just draw blood to himself.

Admittedly better examples exist, like where the character looks the other in the eye and the other one instantly feels terrified and shaken to the core, but what you're describing is still essentially fear hax, despite you reframing it as a special extrasensory ability all living beings apparently possess; an extrasensory perception of danger which alerted everyone to be terrified of Alucard's incoming ability but didn't alert anyone to the impending attacks by Millennium or Iscariot.

See, to me fearhax implies you can just inject irrational, uncalled-for fear into someone even if they have no reason to fear you.
Hence the term hax.
That is very different from simply causing someone to realize how much of a threat you are, with specific examples coming to mind of characters flexing their auras and others being scared.
If there was some dude there who was powerful enough that Alucard would have no means of harming them, I don't think they'd be intimidated by his flexing as he goes Level 0.

Neither do any other vampires we meet, and even Seras, the closest thing to another Alucard, lacks the intangibility, mind control, mist and shadow and bat transformations, and much of the regeneration. And given that Zorin does have mind control and a very literal third eye, those abilities are arguably there in Millennium, just never achieved to Alucard's level.

Seras is absolutely shown with transformation, she makes her arm into a whole-ass wing to fly with. Regeneration as well, as seen by her completely recovering from Zorin's attack.
Unfortunately she doesn't get much showings after that except the fight with the Captain, which does indeed have her sprouting tentacles and stuff, and that's with only one soul in her.
Integra even says that the capacity to aborb someone completely by imbibing their blood is the true core nature of a vampire, and is something the Millenium vampires never do.

This was said of the vampires Millennium had been releasing to just wreak havok. Vampires like the losers in the house. Soon after that Alucard said Luke was one of the strongest vampires he'd ever met. He was impressed with Tubalcain as well. There's obviously an enormous difference between the losers in the house and the stronger Millennium vampires. The two losers were obviously prototypes.

This is fair, I'm just saying it already shows precedence for Millenium vampires just flat out not possessing the abilities they're supposed to as vampires, so assuming all of the stronger ones must have a third eye, and that that's the only possible explanation for what Zorin has going on, is just as headcanon-y as assuming the opposite, if not more so.

And I feel like there was another point I was gonna make but I forgot it.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Oh yeah

Nobody has addressed my point about Alucard's weaknesses yet

 

[Random-Helper323]

Unfortunately it's rather unclear because we never actually see a proper vampire besides Alucard and Seras (and I think possibly that priest from episode 1 who literally only existed to get mogged by Alucard). But considering the specific wording of Alucard's rant against Edward, it seems like that is indeed supposed to be something that vampires can normally do.

It's something that's never shown by the priest, or even by Seras. Only Alucard.

And Anderson wasn't indicated to be unfamiliar with bats, he was caught off guard by them swarming through the windows and was surprised that Alucard was still alive.

If most or all vampires could turn into bats, Anderson who kills them all the time would be more familiar with the ability. And Alucard's comment seemed premature if it was a common ability all vampires possessed. It seemed more like he was disgusted with all vampires, which fits because we know he is.

In power, absolutely. What I said was precision and range.

Power and range. It reached all the way across London, and it grabbed every individual drop of blood all over the city too, which requires precision. You know that if you suck up a blood puddle it doesn't all move together, right? What you've got a grip on moves and the rest stays. It certainly leaves stains, but apparently not when Alucard moves it.

The Third Eye is never shown to be what allows Alucard to use mind manip. Its express usage is for shooting and for breaking free of illusions, both things entirely distinct from anything Zorin uses hers for.

Same line of powers, her abilities are a copy of Alucard's, Alucard has also cast illusions with his eyes, and it's a literal third eye. If anything we need a reason to believe it's a different thing.

And even if we assume all vampire powers are "an imitation of Alucard"

That's very misleading, what you're doing. Walter states that they're imitating Alucard, not me. The doctor states that without Mina their vampire research wouldn't have gone anywhere, their research has always been them using Mina's body in some manner to make their vampires, and Mina is literally just a vampire with Alucard's blood, but with nowhere near as much power. They might as well have scraped up his shed dandruff and used that. What do you call what they're doing, if not copying Alucard's abilities?

then why are none of the other multitudes of vampires shown with anything else even slightly resembling a third eye?

Alucard stated that Luke was above any other vampire Alucard had met. Obviously other vampires had never come anywhere near as far. Although just because they lack a physical third eye like Zorin or strong illusion abilities doesn't mean they lack all the abilities.

The same kind of bullet that he was clearly dodging prior to getting spooked? The bullet that was fired from behind where he couldn't see it? After he was already disoriented and and delirious from fear?

The bullet from the Jackal moved fast enough to catch him easily. He previously dodged and even outran bullets - from the Casull. You know why the different gun is significant, I hope. And before you say it, Luke dodging Jackal rounds is only in the OVA.

It didn't become part of Alucard's abilities, that's the whole point of his comment that he wasted Luke's powers on Baskerville.
Alucard didn't even bother properly absorbing Luke, he just fed him to Baskerville and ostensibly assumed he had no use for Luke's powers after he realized Luke was a bitch.
Nobody is ever shown to match Luke's speed, far from it in fact, which makes sense considering that seems to be his whole thing.

You'd need more than these speculations to prove Luke was faster than the guy he couldn't escape from.

ALSO, Luke says he has the sum total of Alucard's vampiric powers, and more.
This is immediately proven false, of course, but that implies that the Millenium vampires don't even know the full extent of what kinds of abilities a proper vampire is supposed to possess.

Luke was a test, nothing more. The Major fully expected Luke to fail, and so did the doctor. It was Tubalcain the doctor expected to succeed, but the Major knew he'd fail too.

Which makes sense since they're derived from Mina. And while yes, Mina's bizarre nature was a product of Alucard, she is by no means the same type of being at all.

Answered this. She is the same as Seras, a girl Alucard turned into a vampire. You know how Seras can unlock great abilities due to Alucard's blood in her? Mina is that, except a weaker person, never learned to use her power, never absorbed a familiar and made by a likely weaker Alucard.

Alucard never caught Luke
Walter didn't "catch" Luke, he grabbed him while he was in the process of trying to crawl out of a dead dog.
Luke's entire thing is speed. It's his one unique ability, and the only thing that Alucard would be praising both times he gives Luke accolades.

"Luke's speed" when Walter uses him is literally Walter's speed. Luke can't move, Walter is moving him like a puppet. And again, proving Luke who has no higher speed feats, was only ever a test, and was unable to outrun Jackal bullets, was faster than the characters who are far above him in both feats and scaling, will take more than this speculation.

I could've sworn it was all together and that was precisely why he could absorb everyone. Another thing to recheck I suppose.

When millions of people die across a city, their blood isn't going to settle into a small puddle in the middle.

Regardless, I think it is entirely reasonable to assume that yes, Alucard can just draw blood to himself.

The issue is, you're taking a character with telekinesis abilities with a lot of strength, and weather control feats of far greater strength and range than the blood movement, seeing him moving lots of blood with his mind, and assuming that ability is somehow unigue to blood.

See, to me fearhax implies you can just inject irrational, uncalled-for fear into someone even if they have no reason to fear you.
Hence the term hax.
That is very different from simply causing someone to realize how much of a threat you are, with specific examples coming to mind of characters flexing their auras and others being scared.
If there was some dude there who was powerful enough that Alucard would have no means of harming them, I don't think they'd be intimidated by his flexing as he goes Level 0.

The problem is that by the rules you're suggesting no character would have fear hax. Because characters stronger than them in their own verse will pretty much always resist it.

Seras is absolutely shown with transformation, she makes her arm into a whole-ass wing to fly with. Regeneration as well, as seen by her completely recovering from Zorin's attack.

I said she never showed the ability to transform fully. You said yourself only her arm transforms. That's a far cry from transforming her whole body. Considering that the subject was turning into mist and swarms of bats I had hoped it would be obvious what I meant, but I guess not.

Unfortunately she doesn't get much showings after that except the fight with the Captain, which does indeed have her sprouting tentacles and stuff, and that's with only one soul in her.
Integra even says that the capacity to aborb someone completely by imbibing their blood is the true core nature of a vampire, and is something the Millenium vampires never do.

We don't see the priest absorb anyone either. The absorption thing seems to be unique to Alucard's line.

This is fair, I'm just saying it already shows precedence for Millenium vampires just flat out not possessing the abilities they're supposed to as vampires

Not really. Again, name one other vampire aside from Alucard who can turn into mist or bats, and the priest couldn't heal gunshot wounds from the Casull either. The only difference was how Lief couldn't defend himself without any bullets, which was to do with level of strength and skill, and Luke, Jan and the soldier vampires were all better than that, given Jan overwhelmed Walter and the soldiers slaughtered armoured mercenaries armed with silver bullets.

so assuming all of the stronger ones must have a third eye

We know they have some level of the power, especially given how accurately Rip can aim her bullet.

and that that's the only possible explanation for what Zorin has going on

Alucard calls it third eye. Zorin has a very literal third eye.

Third eye is associated with mental powers. Zorin uses her very literal third eye for mental powers.

Third eye is vampiric power. Zorin's powers are vampiric, and even derived from Mina's.

Oh yeah

Nobody has addressed my point about Alucard's weaknesses yet

I assume you mean the age old argument that he gets shredded by bullets? Even though Anderson is bulletproof, and even though numerous verses treat piercing damage seperately, which is also accurate to real life?

 

[Armorchompy]

not interested in this at all, literally just scrolling by but

which is also accurate to real life?

eeeeeeeeeeeh

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh


eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

 

[Random-Helper323]

not interested in this at all, literally just scrolling by but

eeeeeeeeeeeh

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh


eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

Animals like elephants can be injured with tiny blades. There was a thread on it not long ago about real life animal durability.

Nice move liking the pointless bitchy comment Weekly.

 

[Armorchompy]

Animals like elephants can be injured with tiny blades. There was a thread on it not long ago about real life animal durability.

Yes, because they are massive animals [but also not really, good luck even getting through their 3 cm of skin with any sort of hand-held blade in a single motion lol] who're not very high into 9-B, and only reach that tier because of their sheer size, which means [simplifying to fit our very simplified system] their durability per square cm would be much lower than a humanoid with the same level of strength.

A human-sized building buster, let alone a city buster, has absolutely no business getting hurt by anything with 9-C or 9-B force no matter the surface it's applied over unless it's literally microscopic. Now I'm not saying "oh this proves they're below that tier", obviously fiction is afforded some leeway in this sort of thing, I am however saying "don't use this as an argument, it's wrong".

the pointless bitchy comment

Is there a problem?

 

[Random-Helper323]

Yes, because they are massive animals [but also not really, good luck even getting through their 3 cm of skin with any sort of hand-held blade lol] who're not very high into 9-B, and only reach that tier because of their sheer size, which means [simplifying to fit our very simplified system] their durability per square cm would be much lower than a humanoid with the same level of strength.

A human-sized building buster, let alone a city buster, has absolutely no business getting hurt by anything with 9-B force no matter the surface it's applied over unless it's literally microscopic. Now I'm not saying "oh this proves they're below that tier", obviously fiction is afforded some leeway in this sort of thing, I am however saying "don't use this as an argument, it's wrong".

It's not an argument so much as an added note. The rest of it more than covered it. Anyway, I admit I was a bit cranky there. I had someone try to pick a fight with me today and a high ranking person running around trying to command power by confronting everyone, so I'm a lot touchier than usual. I'll meditate, work out and calm down.

Is there a problem?

That depends on if what you just said is a legitimate question or an attempt at intimidation. Last time I checked pointing out a needlessly sassy attitude wasn't against the rules, and in all regards to your respectable talents and undoubtedly numerous contributions, that comment wasn't exactly a productive one. Hell, I've seen members sling unwarranted spiteful accusations at Antvasima simply for his opinions and they're not banned.

As for Weekly, apologies for the overreaction; it was out of line. I genuinely do admire that you have any humility at all about your past mistakes. It takes character to have that humility, and it's a quality many people lack.