• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Hellboy (Franchise) Revision Thread #2.5 | Hellboy's Inner Demon

Status
Not open for further replies.
@KLOL506 Or like you said on your profile, you could go the Squid route. Up to you.
 
Alright, now since we have a calculation for the Ogdru Jahad, here are the most recent changes foe Hellboy's profile I'd like to propose:

Tier: At least 9-A, higher as Prince of Hell | At least Low 7-B, higher as Prince of Hell| At least Low 7-B. High 7-C as Prince of Hell, likely far higher

Name: Hellboy, Urush An Rama, Hell Boy, The Right Hand of Doom, The Beast of the Apocalypse, The World Destroyer, The Great Beast, HB, Red, Hell-Boy, Red Ape, Monkey Boy (Real name is Anung Un Rama)

Origin: Hellboy

Gender: Male

Age: 441 (physically 70)

Classification: Cambion (Half-Demon, Half-Human)

Attack Potency: At least Small Building level+ (Comparable to his striking strength; caused an earthquake during his fight with a rat monster), higher as Prince of Hell | At least Small City level+ (Fought and eventually defeated a vessel of the Ogdru Jahad), higher as Prince of Hell | At least Small City level+ (Should still be as strong as before). Large Town level as Prince of Hell (Comparable to his striking strength; roughly 2 km tall), likely far higher

Speed: At least Transonic reactions and combat speed (Fast enough to dodge bullets and a shot from an electric gun), higher as Prince of Hell | At least Transonic reactions and combat speed (Should still be as fast as before), higher as Prince of Hell | At least Transonic reactions and combat speed (Should still be as fast as before). Hypersonic+ to High Hypersonic flight and travel speed as Prince of Hell, likely far higher

Lifting Strength: At least Class 5 (Can throw a tree into a giant's neck), higher as Prince of Hell | At least Class 5 (Should be as strong as before), higher as Prince of Hell | At least Class 5 (Should still be as strong as before). Class G as Prince of Hell, likely far higher

Striking Strength: At least Small Building Class+ (Strong enough to punch a large tree monster which requires this much energy), higher as Prince of Hell | At least Small City Class+ (Managed to damage the Ogdru Jahad; shattered a giant's sword with his Right Hand of Doom, which would require this level of strength), higher as Prince of Hell | At least Small City Class+ (Should still be as strong as before). Large Town Class as Prince of Hell (His punches can deal this much damage), likely far higher

Durability: At least City Block level (Withstood a gas station from exploding, survived an explosion that destroyed an entire castle, and tanked the destruction of a UFO base), higher as Prince of Hell | At least Small City level+ (Took in and survived fatal blows from the Ogdru Jahad), higher as Prince of Hell | At least Small City level+ (Should be as durable as before). Large Town level as Prince of Hell, likely far higher

Stamina: Superhuman (Withstood multiple shots of electricity, for which each shock had the power to light up a city), higher as Prince of Hell | Superhuman (Should be greater than before), higher as Prince of Hell | Superhuman, higher as Prince of Hell

Range: Extended melee range with swords and spears, tens of meters with guns and other firearms, Kilometers via size

Standard Equipment: The Right Hand of Doom, 1941 US Army-Issue M1911A1 .45 Caliber Pistol, Excalibur, concussion and gas grenades, knives, spears, horns (via Prince of Hell), Vulcan 50 and 65, an iron horseshoe, Mohlomi's Bell, Resurrection Amulet & several other magical artifacts

Intelligence: At least Gifted, likely higher. After he was taken in by the US government and became a part of the BPRD in 1952, Hellboy possesses 50 years of considerable knowledge and experience as both a detective and paranormal investigator. He's able to rig up Nazi munitions to a timed explosion and speak Old Lemurian which was the language of the first race of men in the golden age. Aside from his occult knowledge, Hellboy is an incredible strategist both inside and outside of combat. He can figure out a way to destroy an enemy after learning the weakness and use the environment to his advantage such as when he used a damaged sign to skewer his enemy. He has also displayed skill with swords and other improvised weapons.

Weaknesses: While he may have a healing factor, Hellboy's regeneration hasn't always saved him and his half-demonic nature allows him to be damaged by certain types of holy spells and magic Some of his weapons often malfunction and there are a few times when he's indicated to not being a great shot even though he states he's improving. Despite his intellect and skill, Hellboy is rather brutish and short-tempered which causes him to rush into situations and do stupid things later getting surprised in the process. He also apparently has a soft spot for cats and Baby Ruth bars | Same as before | Same as before, though he might not be weak to holy weapons as he is no "simple creature of Hell")

Note: Although Hellboy's strength and other stats increases when he taps into his demonic powers, the true extent of them aren't revealed until his third key.

Key: 1st Chapter (Seed of Destruction - The Island) | 2nd Chapter (The Island - The Fury) | 3rd Chapter (Hellboy in Hell - B.P.R.D.: The Devil You Know)

What does everyone think?

@SamanPatou I have asked a few calc group members to evaluate the blog with the Transonic feats and I unfortunately haven't received any recent responses. Anyone in this thread mind evaluating them?
 
Last edited:
Is the vessel comparable to the actual Ogdru Jahad?
You should also link scans of the fight, at least the relevant ones.

The Prince of Hell form should be explained. A preferrable way would be to quickly describe, in the AP section, why it makes him stronger, and add a description of the form itself in the NA&T section.
 
SamanPatou said:
Is the vessel comparable to the actual Ogdru Jahad?
You should also link scans of the fight, at least the relevant ones.
Click to expand...
@SamanPatou Nimue was the vessel who got possessed by the Ogdru Jahad during the events of then The Storm and the Fury, which got her to create the massive storm over Great Britain during the fight with Hellboy. So that should make her comparable to the actual Ogdru Jahad. Also, my previous post was updated.
SamanPatou said:
The Prince of Hell form should be explained. A preferrable way would be to quickly describe, in the AP section, why it makes him stronger, and add a description of the form itself in the NA&T section.
Click to expand...
The problem with that is we don't really know the true extent of Hellboy's Prince of Hell form until the end of Hellboy In Hell. Now I'm sure there are some feats of him in his demon form before his third key, but I'd have to look, and I doubt there are any that'd put him on the same level or higher as that. I could probably use this:

-Horns grow to their full length and a crown appears over his head.
-Utilizes his demonic powers to the fullest.
-Gets a massive upgrade in powers.
-- Gets increased strength, speed, and durability, reaction time, and a more powerful healing factor
-Causes symbols on right hand to glow.
-Can unlock the door to Armaggeddon.

but that's all from a respect thread.
 
CreatorJoe said:
@SamanPatou Nimue was the vessel who got possessed by the Ogdru Jahad during the events of then The Storm and the Fury, which got her to create the massive storm over Great Britain during the fight with Hellboy. So that should make her comparable to the actual Ogdru Jahad. Also, my previous post was updated.
Click to expand...
Why creating a storm would make Nimue comparable to the actual Ogdru? Especially because Ogdru's current calculated strength comes from its size, is Nimue equally big?
Can the storm be compared to her AP/SS in any way, or is it just Weather Manipulation?

CreatorJoe said:
The problem with that is we don't really know the true extent of Hellboy's Prince of Hell form until the end of Hellboy In Hell. Now I'm sure there are some feats of him in his demon form before his third key, but I'd have to look, and I doubt there are any that'd put him on the same level or higher as that. I could probably use this:
Click to expand...
I mean explaining what the form itself is.
What triggers it, why it makes him stronger, what's the idea behind it etc...
The bullet list is a good start, but you should write a comprehensive description of the form itself, to let reader understand what it is in the first place.
 
@SamanPatou Like I said before, Nimue was the vessel that got possessed by the Ogdru Jahad. Her true form doesn't appear until later on in the fight with Hellboy, but maybe this makes her as big as the Ogdru Jahad.

As for Hellboy's form, the wiki states he activates it either artificially or when under emotional duress. And after coming to terms with his heritage, Hellboy seems to be able to transform at will.
 
Bambu makes a lot of sense to me; and Saman's points also make sense.
 
So what are the staff conclusions here so far?
 
CreatorJoe said:
@SamanPatou Like I said before, Nimue was the vessel that got possessed by the Ogdru Jahad. Her true form doesn't appear until later on in the fight with Hellboy, but maybe this makes her as big as the Ogdru Jahad.
Click to expand...
She isn't nearly as big as Ogdru.
She is bigger than Hellboy, but Ogdru is taller than mountains.
And since Ogdru's current tier comes from its sheer size, we can't scale it to a smaller vessel, unless there are very explicit reasons to do so.

CreatorJoe said:
As for Hellboy's form, the wiki states he activates it either artificially or when under emotional duress. And after coming to terms with his heritage, Hellboy seems to be able to transform at will.
Click to expand...
This stuff should be featured in his profile through a comprehensive description, so people reading it know what it is.
 
@Antvasima Well, just about everything in Hellboy's profile has been updated thanks to @Mr._Bambu, @SamanPatou, @UchihaSlayer96, and @Confluctor, but going back to the most recent post we can't scale Nimue to the Ogdru Jahad at this time. So, I'd like us to continue looking into Hellboy's second key and trying to get more calculations done for Katha-Hem and the Ogdru Jahad.
SamanPatou said:
This stuff should be featured in his profile through a comprehensive description, so people reading it know what it is.
Click to expand...
So, would there need to be another note for this? It could look like:

Note: Hellboy's demon form only activates either artificially or when under emotional duress. However, after coming to terms with his heritage during the events of Hellboy In Hell, he seems to be able to transform at will.
 
It would fit better in the Notable Attacks&Techniques section, but it works.

I would also add what it is, though. Is it him tapping into his inner powers? Is it something he's acquired from someone else? Things like that, not just how it works, but what is that about in the first place.
 
@Antvasima Thank you for your help.

Now, let's return to the Ogdru Jahad. Since we can't scale Hellboy to the calculation @AbaddonTheDisappointment made for the Ogdru Jahad as it mostly relies on their size, we might be able to scale the Ogdru Jahad to Katha-Hem. As we should know, Katha-Hem is one of the Ogdru Hem, and the Ogdru Hem are stated to be weaker than their parents, the Ogdru Jahad. For Katha-Hem's attack potency, here's what I have:

Attack Potency: At least Small Town level (Its size puts it on this level; destroyed and incinerated skyscrapers during its rampage across the Midwestern United States, both of which require these levels of energy)

So, this should make the Ogdru Jahad Low 7-C, and while we're on the same page, this should also make Hellboy in his second key Low 7-C. Want everyone to bear in mind that I'm not only scaling the Ogdru Jahad to Katha-Hem's size but also the damage Katha-Hem caused during its rampage.
 
I don't get why you put Ogdru at High 7-C when its own calc puts it at Low 7-B.

Still, since the rating still come from size, I disagree with scaling a much much smaller vessel to the gigantic original being.
 
SamanPatou said:
I don't get why you put Ogdru at High 7-C when its own calc puts it at Low 7-B.

Still, since the rating still come from size, I disagree with scaling a much much smaller vessel to the gigantic original being.
Click to expand...
@SamanPatou Low 7-C, actually. The Low 7-B rating is via its sheer size, but since we're not able to use that to scale it to Nimue who fought Hellboy in The Fury this was the only alternative I could think of.
 
But why, though?

Ogdru Jahad itself can easily be stronger than its children, but why would a mere vessel be stronger than them, since it isn't the real thing? Afaik you didn't provide any evidence that Nimue is comparable in strength to the actual Ogdru.

And yes, I've misread KLOL's calc, but Kata being Low 7-C is fine. I don't think you should link the "references for common feats page", Kata is shown toppling the skyscrapers, not fragmenting them whole, which is what the reference page is calculating.
I don't even see it incinerating anything, there's fire all around but the buildings are still pretty much intact, despite being enveloped in fire.
 
SamanPatou said:
Ogdru Jahad itself can easily be stronger than its children, but why would a mere vessel be stronger than them, since it isn't the real thing? Afaik you didn't provide any evidence that Nimue is comparable in strength to the actual Ogdru.
Click to expand...
@SamanPatou What if we scaled the vessel to Hellboy's stats, then? If we don't really have much evidence that Nimue is comparable to the actual Ogdru Jahad we should just be able to use the physicals from Hellboy's second key. Whaddya say? Can we get everyone in agreement with this?
 
Totally, if Nimue represents a threat to Hellboy, she should definitely scale to him.

Unless there are more feats to look at, I guess Hellboy's second key will just upscale from the previous without providing any explicit value.
 
Alright then, I'll make another draft in the l blog section of my profile for it. Still working on the draft for Hellboy's, however, so it might take a while.
 
Last edited:
Actually, for the sake of time, I'm just gonna focus on the draft revisions for Hellboy's profile. I was aiming to make this content revision mostly about Hellboy, and seeing as how there are multiple characters that scale to him I think it'd be easier to get the final proposed revisions completed for his profile.
 
So what do you think that we should do here exactly, Saman?
 
Wait for CreatorJoe to write the new draft and then apply the changes to Hellboy, Ogdru and Kata according to the new calculations.
 
Koshchei's rating, and Hellboy's by scaling, is wrong.
8-B is the energy required to create a forest (likely the energy all those tree need to grow to a certain size) but that's different from the force the trees generate when they come out of the ground and hit Koshchei, and we aren't even accounting surface area.

The whole comparison is wrong anyway, the calc assumes a 1.23 acres area for the forest, and that bunch of trees shown by the comics isn't that wide.

These calcs have yet to be evaluated properly.
This one could use a re-evaluation given how much time has passed, I feel, and here I have the feel that calc members have just taken a look at the AP and not at the speed.

Everything else seems fine, tho in the future someone should add references.and possibly more scans for some statements.
 
What if we were to say Hellboy could harm those who could harm him? Does that still not work? Is there any way to scale Hellboy to his durability?
 
Last edited:
CreatorJoe said:
@SamanPatou What if we were to say Hellboy could harm those who could harm him? Does that still not work? Is there any way to scale Hellboy to his durability?
Click to expand...
Aye, if he can trade blows with those capable of harming him and is capable of harming himself with his own attacks, that's valid reason to scale Hellboy's AP to his dura.
 
Should be good now, as long as all the calcs receive the proper evaluation and adjuments, if necessary.

Lastly, you should provide examples of Hellboy harming characters who can harm him.
 
Which calculation blogs that are relevant for this revision thread currently needs to be evaluated?
 
SamanPatou said:
These calcs have yet to be evaluated properly.
This one could use a re-evaluation given how much time has passed, and here I have the feeling that calc members have just taken a look at the AP and not at the speed.
Click to expand...
These ones.

Also, this other calc might have to be remade from scratch, given the issues Armor and KLOL have found.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Firestorm808
Fallout - Super Mutant Behemoth Upgrades and Scaling
Replies
9
Views
674
Firestorm808
Firestorm808
Raincutter
Terrifier 3/Novelization Upgrades and Revisions
Replies
31
Views
2K
Raincutter
Raincutter
Myxenete
Post-Timeskip Renji Upgrade
Replies
31
Views
2K
SilentBob34
SilentBob34
1000TonsofFun
  • Locked
Speckles the Tarbosaurus High 8-C?
2
Replies
59
Views
3K
1000TonsofFun
1000TonsofFun
Allegxtions
Choyun and Suhyeon Stat Changes
Replies
26
Views
1K
Allegxtions
Allegxtions
Back
Top