Hellaverse HUGE Changes

[AppleMaker]

Like yall are just trying to downplay to downplay atp ngl, no one even calculated the best feat in the verse yet

Which one?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Snip

Sure, will change tomorrow.

Are you serious? Striker’s rope > General’s Pure Angelic Holy Light??

He is not saying it is superior, just that it has different functions. Especially given that it nulls powers only when it catches and is around the target.

we also see that his staff being taken away doesn’t mean he cannot use his powers so tfym?

Breaking his staff does indeed null his powers temporarily, that’s even in my OP. He can’t even use his radio-voice.

 

[Bearat_Fearat]

I mean I agree with all of them but godamn this verse keeps on getting more nerfed each time I check on it.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I mean I agree with all of them but godamn this verse keeps on getting more nerfed each time I check on it.

I know, isn’t this great?

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Are you serious? Striker’s rope > Adam’s Pure Angelic Holy Light??

in terms of Power null, yes.
Striker's rope was specifically crafted to hold Stolas down and nullify his power with angellic properties, holy light has only shown being a strong ass laser that Regen nulls.
it's not even stated that it's an ability all angels have, only shown Striker's rope has it

Adam scales above Striker which should already let him have the ability

Scaling above someone with magic shouldn't mean you just have some their hax on lock without proof
By your logic, Lucifer scales above Stolas so Lucifer should have petrification or a resistence to it despite him never showing or it never being implied to have it due being "the strongest in hell".

but additionally you can see his holy light completely shutdown the already created shadows.

That just shows that Adam has NPI with shadows, something that is consistent angelic weapons (We take those victories). Plus, as you stated with you opinion many times over the years of this discussion, Adam is above Alastor (Something I do agree with, even if I think the man Downscales) so him completely shredding shadows that have like...zero feats besides maybe being comparable to Angel dust if you stretch it is just more proof that he's stronger.
P̶l̶u̶s̶,̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶'̶r̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶d̶a̶m̶a̶n̶t̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶A̶d̶a̶m̶ ̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶ ̶n̶u̶l̶l̶,̶ ̶A̶d̶a̶m̶'̶s̶ ̶f̶e̶a̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶s̶h̶o̶t̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶A̶l̶a̶s̶t̶o̶r̶s̶ ̶b̶i̶g̶ ̶s̶h̶i̶e̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶o̶m̶e̶s̶ ̶h̶i̶m̶ ̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶ ̶n̶u̶l̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶t̶,̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶I̶,̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶A̶l̶a̶s̶t̶o̶r̶ ̶"̶g̶l̶a̶z̶e̶r̶"̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶k̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶w̶r̶o̶n̶g̶ /j

like you mentioned we also see that his staff being taken away doesn’t mean he cannot use his powers so tfym?

Using the staff as an example is just so bad since it's an Alastor specific weakness that his staff, at the very least, amplifies his power to the point that, whenever it's broken by literally ANYONE, he becomes weaker. Destroying the source of a guys power with it being a weakness that he needs the staff ain't proof Adam has powernull, more like proof of alastor's weakness
Also, No staff Alastor did this right after Adam's angelic weapon, giving him a scar that ain't been healed to this day, btw so I guess we giving al limited resistence to power null now (No we ain't because that'd be stupid).

Like yall are just trying to downplay to downplay atp ngl, no one even calculated the best feat in the verse yet

Provide real tangible evidence that it power nulls and i'll gladly keep it.
I'm not "just trying to downgrade", i'm trying to make sure things are consistent, work, and make the verse better over all (Giving the verse big numbers and big hax that characters don't have isn't making it better). If things suck, no matter how much I like them (L7C Alastor, my beloved), I, and the others here, will make sure to remove them.
There are two calcs for the best feat, one is the original and the entire calc was deemed so insanely wrong the guy who let approved it said it sucked and many other CGMs said it no good (read the downgrade thread if you wish) while the other recalcing it has no CGMs reviewing it and, when I tried getting rusty to review it like a month or so ago, he said something about it was wrong but didn't want to specify. We haven't forgotten about Adam's feat, there's just no good calc (or no calc reviewed) right now

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I mean I agree with all of them but godamn this verse keeps on getting more nerfed each time I check on it.

"It's cuz the verse is hated!1!1!"
it's mainly because we've been reliant on bad scaling for a minute now and it's being rectified.
Everyone scaling to Hypersonic+ when, logicially, only the god tier should've back when the Adam calc was being used, imps scaling of a bad speed calc, imps scaling of an explosion that nearly killed them with us not knowing how big the distance was, adam's feat being calced wrong, ect.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

"It's cuz the verse is hated!1!1!"
it's mainly because we've been reliant on bad scaling for a minute now and it's being rectified.
Everyone scaling to Hypersonic+ when, logicially, only the god tier should've back when the Adam calc was being used, imps scaling of a bad speed calc, imps scaling of an explosion that nearly killed them with us not knowing how big the distance was, adam's feat being calced wrong, ect.

Erm the reason is actually both. The verse is hated AND it was reliant on bad scaling. /j

Also, do you think only Power Null has to go or NPI too, since again the rope was designed specifically to catch Stolas as you said? (I explained in the OP why Al’s shadows are meant to be physical, so they aren’t proof, which means simply no NPI at all)

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Erm the reason is actually both. The verse is hated AND it was reliant on bad scaling. /j

Also, do you think only Power Null has to go or NPI too, since again the rope was designed specifically to catch Stolas as you said? (I explained in the OP why Al’s shadows are meant to be physical, so they aren’t proof, which means simply no NPI at all)

that's fair, I hadn't really thought about it.
Yeah, the shadow based NPI for everything not including Striker's rope can go but I guess NPI can remain just a little bit since it's stated to be capable of erasing souls, meaning it can interact with said souls.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I guess NPI can remain just a little bit since it's stated to be capable of erasing souls, meaning it can interact with said souls.

That’s straight up Soul Manip and not NPI, NPU is about treating non-physical stuff as physical. These are kind of different.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

That’s straight up Soul Manip and not NPI, NPU is about treating non-physical stuff as physical. These are kind of different.

I guess.
Do we have any proof that angelic stuff can physically interact with souls? If so, they get NPI and soul manip (similar to how Kris has both since they can not only attack their soul but hold it like an object). If not, then yeah, just soul manip and NPI goes for anything Non Striker rope

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

I went on a roller coaster reading this, just one question.

If Adam as of right now is 44 kilotons, and he one shots AL, but AL can still stagger and restrain him, why can't AL downscale to like...22 kilotons?
Before you bring the pitchforks, I know he probably scales lower, but my point is that it's totally believable that Adam can one shot a guy he is literally 2x stronger than as a minimum.
I use 2x because it still scales AL pretty high and (I think) proves a point, 22 kilos can be the MAX of ALs dura, but Adams AP is 44 MINIMUM.
Doesn't one shotting still work there? Wouldn't a guy with a max dura of 500 joules get bent over if someone punched him with 1 KJ, and that's forgetting the power delivery of slashing confining all that to one small point.

But we can downscale AL even moar as 7-C starts at around 6-ish Kilotons, which would make Adam 7.33x stronger than AL, leaving AL well within one shot range, but still giving him the ability to stagger Adam.
Basically, 7-C for AL technically works.

Although, I thought that overlords getting power through souls meant that they got an increase on both physical and magical power equally, AL not scaling to his tentacles means that we are introducing overlords being glass cannons like the Goitia, which would be fine if people like Carmilla didn't exist. Unless her being a physical fighter is an outlier for overlords? I'd imagine that if she had good magic, she would've used it to protect her daughters?

But none of this even really matters because season 2 is literally next week, where the trailers imply that even a weakened AL is comparable to Vox, and it looks like there will be feats galore for us, y'know, the whole war on heaven and Vox's god complex, AL vs Vox, Luci vs someone(vox?). The verses scaling will be more solidified (hopefully) soon with this season.

 

[Mythic381]

If Adam as of right now is 44 kilotons, and he one shots AL

One shot him with a piercing weapon that can even kill Adam himself.

Although, I thought that overlords getting power through souls meant that they got an increase on both physical and magical power equally, AL not scaling to his tentacles means that we are introducing overlords being glass cannons like the Goitia, which would be fine if people like Carmilla didn't exist. Unless her being a physical fighter is an outlier for overlords? I'd imagine that if she had good magic, she would've used it to protect her daughters?

Sir Pentious still scales to getting slammed and crushed by Alastor's tentacles. (I still have some doubts about whether or not Sir Pentious truly died from the pilot feat since I ain't really sure a soundtrack name should suffice alone.)

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

One shot him with a piercing weapon that can even kill Adam himself.

slashing* (its an axe)
And yea, his weapon can kill himself, but my point is that AL can still scale in the same tier while being drastically weaker, hell, put him back in Low 7-C, would probably make more sense

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

We don't arbitarily give tiers based on downscaling. It's just "At most 7-C [downscales from 44 kilotons]".

 

[Mythic381]

slashing* (its an axe)

Point is that it's not a blunt attack, and the fact that it upscales from Adam should kind of make the point irrelevant anyways. (Axes can pierce too yk.)

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

We don't arbitarily give tiers based on downscaling. It's just "At most 7-C [downscales from 44 kilotons]".

I...know?
I'm just saying that 7-C AL works, the math supports it, but isn't to be used. AL should overall downscale, and it shouldn't be "with tentacles", the way overlords gain power doesn't seem to allow glass cannons, so AL should be equal do to UES(thats the term I'm looking for, right?). Unless that get confirmed that glass cannon overlords exist IG?

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

Point is that it's not a blunt attack, and the fact that it upscales from Adam should kind of make the point irrelevant anyways. (Axes can pierce too yk.)

Ik, its just that I'm particular considering the actual scene is displaying slashing, sorry

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

so AL should be equal do to UES(thats the term I'm looking for, right?). Unless that get confirmed that glass cannon overlords exist IG?

The hellaverse doesn't have a Universal Energy System (As it currently stands, we only have a physiology page), otherwise we'd have Al, Adam, and Lucifer upscaling Stolas's enviromental destruction. Sure, we have mentions of Magic and Soul Power, but we don't have enough to support a UES as the verse currently stands (might change at season 3-4 but I highly doubt it knowing Vivzie).
Only reason Adam is 7-C physically is because he's made from the same light he uses, Alastor has no such statement and no showing that he's physically equal to his tentacles (if so, he could've just been using his hands the whole time instead of wasting magic summoning tentacles)

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

The hellaverse doesn't have a Universal Energy System (As it currently stands, we only have a physiology page), otherwise we'd have Al, Adam, and Lucifer upscaling Stolas's enviromental destruction. Sure, we have mentions of Magic and Soul Power, but we don't have enough to support a UES as the verse currently stands (might change at season 3-4 but I highly doubt it knowing Vivzie).
Only reason Adam is 7-C physically is because he's made from the same light he uses, Alastor has no such statement and no showing that he's physically equal to his tentacles (if so, he could've just been using his hands the whole time instead of wasting magic summoning tentacles)

Tentacles have range and don't hurt him, but I get it. I just thought that overlords gaining power through souls would increase all stats equally, not favoring magic, which Carmilla seems to disprove IG?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Tentacles have range and don't hurt him, but I get it. I just thought that overlords gaining power through souls would increase all stats equally, not favoring magic

It’s just a matter of “never stated or implied”.

His electrified tentacles only scale to durability as per OP due to him tanking them growing out of his spine, his Striking Strength will remain the same - at least 8-B, possibly 8-A via one-shotting Sir Pentious. The best you can get here is “possibly higher” by just saying “uhh maybe Demonic Form increases physical AP maybe not”. Assuming it’s equal to magic is too far of a stretch, and would render all of UES requirements useless.

 

[Comiphorous]

His electrified tentacles only scale to durability as per OP due to him tanking them growing out of his spine,

If they grew out of him then he "took damage" because they broke through his skin. He can't tank it but also have them break through his skin. that's an oxymoron.

Again i despise the concept for that scaling as it's just cherry picking for a form we've never seen much of at all and doesn't make sense in the first place.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

If they grew out of him then he "took damage" because they broke through his skin. He can't tank it but also have them break through his skin. that's an oxymoron

We already went over this. Stop stonewalling if you will please.

 

[Mythic381]

The hellaverse doesn't have a Universal Energy System (As it currently stands, we only have a physiology page), otherwise we'd have Al, Adam, and Lucifer upscaling Stolas's enviromental destruction. Sure, we have mentions of Magic and Soul Power, but we don't have enough to support a UES as the verse currently stands (might change at season 3-4 but I highly doubt it knowing Vivzie).

You're assuming all of them use the same type of magic, which isn't proven, angelic magic and demonic magic is generally shown to be different and you can even make the argument Goetias and Sinners use different type of magic considering Vivziepop says that Alastor and Stolas' power work very differently.

Also kind of a thing that it's showcased overlords are physically stronger than sinners by a lot:
Valentino easily beating up Angel who can tank being slammed by Sir Pentious
Alastor who is stated to be capable of knocking out Sir Pentious in one strike, who survived getting slammed by his tentacles. (Alastor didn't take Sir Pentious seriously which is why I see that it makes sense.)
Carmilla easily beating Vaggie who is around sinners level.

 

[Comiphorous]

We already went over this. Stop stonewalling if you will please.

But you're the one who said it. This is stonewalling itself you refuse to face how someone can tank damage (meaning taking NO DAMAGE) while also saying the tentacles can rip through his flesh easily (That's damage). It's complete nonsense and it comes off as grabbing at straws.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

But you're the one who said it. This is stonewalling itself you refuse to face how someone can tank damage (meaning taking NO DAMAGE) while also saying the tentacles damaged him. It's complete nonsense and it comes off as grabbing at straws.

what if they just spawned ON his back and not THROUGH it? His clothes never get torn up when he does it, who ever said that they go THROUGH his skin?

 

[Comiphorous]

what if they just spawned ON his back and not THROUGH it? His clothes never get torn up when he does it

Then his durability can't scale obviously. No matter how you look at it scaling his durability makes no sense. Either they're ripping through his flesh and has no feats of withstanding the Low 7-C tentacles or they spawn on his back, and the tentacles become irrelevant to his base durability.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

Then his durability can't scale obviously. No matter how you look at it scaling his durability makes no sense. Either they're ripping through his flesh and has no feats of withstanding the Low 7-C tentacles or they spawn on his back, and the tentacles become irrelevant to his base durability.

my reasoning is that I thought overlord magic scaled to their physicals a little due to how they gain power in the first place.
My thought process is:
1 soul gained = +1 to strength and magic

not

1 soul gained = +0.5 to strength +1 to magic

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

But you're the one who said it. This is stonewalling

Peak false equivalence, I’m gonna give you an A on that one! I was responding to @DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt, explaining to him what is proposed in OP for Alastor. While you replied to me, trying to start the debate over again. Which is pointless, since, again, we went over it. Would you mind stop throwing around wrong “you too” and “nuh uh”? I heard your arguments, we debated, we were left with our own opinions. End of conversation.

 

[Comiphorous]

Peak false equivalence, I’m gonna give you an A on that one! I was responding to @DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt, explaining to him what is proposed in OP for Alastor. While you replied to me, trying to start the debate over again. Which is pointless, since, again, we went over it. Would you mind stop throwing around wrong “you too” and “nuh uh”? I heard your arguments, we debated, we were left with our own opinions. End of conversation.

You could end this argument by simply stating how Alastor can tank an attack you admitted damages him.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

I'm just here man...I just want tier 7 Alastor dued...

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

You could end this argument by simply stating how Alastor can tank an attack you admitted damages him.

isnt it as easy as:
Low 7-C dura
tentacles PEIRCE through with equivalent force (they don't even go through his skin tho, cuz they summon on any surface, like his back)

 

[Mythic381]

I'm just here man...I just want tier 7 Alastor dued...

And I want tier 4 Stolas back, we don't get what we always want my friend.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

You could end this argument by simply stating how Alastor can tank an attack you admitted damages him.

Wrong, I never conceded on that, and we already went over this, as I’m saying for billionth time and you don’t want to listen. Want an answer? Scroll back to one or two pages ago where we debated!
From now on, I’ll just ignore you if you continue the same song.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

And I want tier 4 Stolas back, we don't get what we always want my friend.

back? when was he ever... at least, on this wiki?

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

Wrong, I never conceded on that, and we already went over this, as I’m saying for billionth time and you don’t want to listen. Want an answer? Scroll back to one or two pages ago where we debated!
From now on, I’ll just ignore you if you continue the same song.

what abt this though?

isnt it as easy as:
Low 7-C dura
tentacles PEIRCE through with equivalent force (they don't even go through his skin tho, cuz they summon on any surface, like his back)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Wrong, I never conceded on that, and we already went over this, as I’m saying for billionth time and you don’t want to listen.

His electrified tentacles only scale to durability as per OP due to him tanking them growing out of his spine,

I guess Wolverine scales to his claws coming out of his hands...

 

[Mythic381]

back? when was he ever... at least, on this wiki?

Yes

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

I guess Wolverine scales to his claws coming out of his hands...

was just abt to bring that up
he doesn't, but the method of HOW the claws, or in ALs case tentacles, come out could explain it

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

Yes

damn, i want that for him too, but that reasoning was kinda......

 

[Comiphorous]

Wrong, I never conceded on that, and we already went over this, as I’m saying for billionth time and you don’t want to listen. Want an answer? Scroll back to one or two pages ago where we debated!
From now on, I’ll just ignore you if you continue the same song.

On this same exact page here you say this;

His electrified tentacles only scale to durability as per OP due to him tanking them growing out of his spine, his Striking Strength will remain the same - at least 8-B, possibly 8-A via one-shotting Sir Pentious. The best you can get here is “possibly higher” by just saying “uhh maybe Demonic Form increases physical AP maybe not”. Assuming it’s equal to magic is too far of a stretch, and would render all of UES requirements useless.

This is you saying that he tanks damage that's breaking through his flesh. Again, an oxymoron. He can't take no damage from something that's breaking through his flesh. That in itself is damage. All i'm asking is you give me two sentences on how that makes sense.

Edit: as reaper brought up, Wolverine would scale to his adamantium skeleton by your same logic which we all know is silly.