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Haxed Characters In-Depth: Beyond the Text Wall

You think that it spices things up, I think it ruins things.

Clearly this means we can never get along and must fight to the death.
 
It's also why I can't really commit to To Aru, despite it being great. Between beings like Accelerator and Kakine and Fiamma, let alone Othinus or Aleister (Magic Gods get a pass because they're actual gods that I don't think really come into play), it hits everything when it comes to my hax hate boner. And I've seen To Aru clips, and clips involving Accelerator at that. It's great.
 
@Gar. Didn't they need to literally shoot him in the head to nerf him though? Also...kinda my point. Verse has so much hax that people like Accelerator are nothing.

This is still a me problem that I gotta work through.

Also, why didn't anyone bring up Accelerator on this thread? He's insanely nuanced, and a very well written character, arguably a better character than the MC Touma himself.
 
From what I know, Othinus is like a failed god, Accelerator is like the strongest of all the espers, of which there are a lot, kakine isb#2 esper, Kakine gets empowered by Christianity as a whole, and aleister idk.
 
I've said many times that Lavos is like, my least favorite character in Chrono Trigger, in that (s)he has no character.
 
The real cal howard said:
@Gar. Didn't they need to literally shoot him in the head to nerf him though?
Click to expand...
Not really

His weakness where his headshot weakened his shield time was removed ever since he got his black wings, which allows him to have his vectors on forever, and his losses usually aren't because of his weakened shields.
 
Wokistan said:
From what I know, Othinus is like a failed god, Accelerator is like the strongest of all the espers, of which there are a lot, kakine isb#2 esper, Kakine gets empowered by Christianity as a whole, and aleister idk.
Click to expand...
Kakine is considered second in his base form

Even now Accel can't beat his post revival form
 
Cal remember how part of my super long explanation on Ahzek Ahrima included how almost nobody in the gargantuan verse of Warhammer is anywhere near that strong, and you only pervieve verses as more extreme than they are due to this site? How until more recently the overwhelming majority of stuff would focus on guys like imperial guards and basic space Marines?

A lot of these "haxxed verses" seem like they end up similarly. Hell just go look at how many files we have on the to aru verse page, and those are all named characters.
 
That second kakine should say fiamma btw editing comments on a phone is too annoying when you're about to sleep so here you go extra comment
 
The real cal howard said:
You think that it spices things up, I think it ruins things.

Clearly this means we can never get along and must fight to the death.
Click to expand...
I agree with Iapitus but me and you still get along ovo
 
My two cents, though this is more me rambling on the matter. Sorry for the long post:

PART 1

The two things, powers and interesting character, aren't mutually exclusive, they don't necesarilly go together but depending on the setting or story they can be used together for good effect, Hax being a potential route to go when making a character powerful.

For example of one end, AFAIK, this is how works as Lex Luthor being the arch enemy of Superman; see how a man with no real superpowers can oppose one of the most powerful superheroes. On the other end, take Jojo antagonists, they have very powerful abilities compared to the rest of the cast, yet they are memorable characters for who they are (personality, quirks, philosophy, story, etc) and they are played well enough with the heroes' abilities and the story itself that you want to see how the good guys will finally get the villiains, how can they bypass their powers. Helps that Stands aren't just about inherently good or bad powers, but how creative you can be with your abilities, so almost no character comes as cheap and seemingly underpowered characters do step up their game by giving surprisingly good uses to their Stands. (Bruno and Sticky Fingers being my favorite example).

This is also why I am kinda annoyed with some anime/manga as of late and the Light Novels that are used as base for them: it feels like an arms race between authors of who can make the most overpowered main character, and most of the time the character itself is very unremarkable, having a very bland "he's nice and awkard" personality or being a stoic whose range of emotion is "insufferable smartass". Those default personalities are not bad in themselves, but little layers beyond that are added beyond stock like "brave", "loyal to waif-friends", etc.

Authors don't make the verse powerful, it's just the main character who is that strong; if everyone is a 10, the hero is a 150; if everyone is a martial artist, the hero is a psychic, magician, martial, weapon and dance master and reincarnation/vessel of the local god. The abilities aren't that creative either, pretty straightforward ways to overpower or one-hit kill opponents, and sometimes nullify powers. Most supporting cast is there to either admire the hero or be overshadowed by him, and most antagonist except a few key ones are smug jerks to be put in their place by the hero. As a result, the protagonist can come off as overpowered, cheap and boring at best or a shallow wish fullfillment at worst.

Power itself is not the issue; it's the chemistry the guy has with the story itself, even if the guy is just a Building Level, he can be an overpowered bore if everyone else is Peak Human. Why Saint Seiya kinda works despite how OP Saints are is because, everyone is crazy powerful with many varied abilities, and workarounds haxes they may not resist. Everyone has their crazy stuff to work with, so it's fun to see how will they manage. If the overall scale is high then a would be OP character is perfectly fine.
 
PART 2

I know there have attempts to give an interesting spin to the invincible hero: like exploring the existential crisis a character that has no challenges or try to play things for laughs. But while there are successful attempts at it, such as, IMHO, One Punch Man which pulls it off at both sides, and from what I've heard (personally, never read or seen it), Overlord with Ainz; it just feels as an excuse to have an OP protagonist and indulge into the power fantasy. The whole "deconstructive" or "parody" aspect feels like an attempt to wave it off, because it's a small lampshade of the tropes used but still playing the invincible protagonist straight.

Though villiains get a better pass on it, given they aren't the focus and surpassing them is often the point (though it can also come as cheap if they are never beaten on any level, the story keeps making them stand so much on top or justify them).

All said and done, though, if a character has well developed backstory and a convincing explanation for his superior power, defined personality and values, and challenges he can't quickly solve with his superior skills, being OP in a fight can be overlooked or actually work.

Examples I can think of are early Dragon Ball Goku, Kenshin Himura, Kenshiro and Alucard from Hellsing, all for different reasons. For example: Kenshin had a well developed character and pretty good explanation to be stronger than almost everybody, he was essentially a war veteran and former assassin wandering around in what Saito calls "the peaceful Meiji Era", he had a charming personality and was the butt of most jokes, his struggle was not only winning fights but proving his pacifistic philosophy held water as he struggled with his Battousai side in a context where society was unstable in Japan against opponents that also held good points. And well, guys on his league showed and all were tied to the Bakumatsu days so it made sense only Kenshin himself, Saito and Sanosuke could stand up to them.

EDIT: If anyone actually sat down and read all my nonsense you have my thanks for your patience. >_>
 
I've read that, and while it's very good, but there's something I don't agree with about the first part of the second comment. Let's talk about All Might.

He's a character from My Hero Academia, a verse that barely manages to reach 8-B while he is Tier 7. He's a character with a lot of screen time and the mentor of the Protagonist. So, why doesn't it feel like he completely breaks the MHA power system?

Aside from having a believable reason for being that strong, despite being Overpowered, and he's shown to be overpowered very clearly from the first episodes, him being strong is not what the show is concentrating when describing the character. It focuses on his status as the no. 1 Hero and as the symbol of peace, which is necessary to MHA's plotline.

What connects literally every main villain of the series? Their relation with All Might and how they see him. Shigaraki sees the sense of security his existence is able to create, and he despises it and considers people idiots for actually believing that no matter what, All Might or an hero will save them if someone attacks. But obviously, All Might can't be everywhere and save everyone, which is why he considers All Might an hypocrite. As he was never saved by an hero when he was younger, and a villain actually saved him.

All for One also hates him, but for blocking his ascent to power and for defeating all of his subordinates. They're pretty much the opposite of each other.

Stain was so convinced of the ideals of justice and heroism that All Might embodies, that he actually stopped to consider nearly every other hero as an actual hero, and so he decides to go and kill other heroes that he deemed "unworthy" of the title.

Other villain are connected to All Might, but it'd take too long to explain all of them, so I'm skipping to the heroes.

Izuku, the protagonist, dreamed of being like All Might and had his will to save people, like him (but couldn't because foot pinky finger ovo).

Bakugo admired his strength and wanted to become a strong hero like All Might to defeat villains

Endeavor, the no. 2 Hero, was constantly overshadowed by All Might and dedicated his entire life trying to surpass him. The only thing he cared was fame and glory, at least till All Might vs AfO.

I've summarized the hero part as that's not the point. The point is that MHA, aside from his battles against the only other two beings on the verse that can fight him, never focuses on hom being OP as much as the effects of him being the number 1 Hero affected pretty much anyone in the story and ties it together.
 
TriforcePower1 said:
Stain was so convinced of the ideals of justice and heroism that All Might embodies, that he actually stopped to consider nearly every other hero as an actual hero, and so he decides to go and kill other heroes that he deemed "unworthy" of the title.
Click to expand...
And that's why Stain is best villain.
 
@Cal: Glad I could give something worthwile. Really liked your take on Lavos as well.

@Triforce: Sorry, dude, I really really want to read your post, but (knowing I'll come as a bit of a spoiled brat for this) can you tell me beforehand if it is spoiler free regarding My Hero Academia? I just started the series and by some bizarre miracle I have avoided any sort of spoilers regarding the future events, but whenever MHA is brought up or talked about I skip it or take off. Sorry for the inconvenience.
 
Yes, it unfortunately contains some spoilers about the psychology of the character, but barely any spoiler about events. It can be pretty much be summarized as:

"The point is that MHA never focuses on hom being OP as much as the effects of him being the number 1 Hero affected pretty much anyone in the story and ties it together."
 
Sounds pretty neat. And I don't doubt it. I did mention cases of characters who are leagues above everyone else, but played well enough they work out. Tried to give my two cents on All Might as well with what I could.

You could also say he's a successful example of exploraiton of the dangers of being true powerful, which ca be done properly.
 
Zonda has Reality Warping, AZ Ice, Data Transmutation, Mindhax, has been an orphan for most of her life, created Eden due to abuse she got as a (younger) child due to her supernatural powers and her last words were calling out to her dead adoptive brother.
 
At first glance, Konosuba characters are OP. Vanir, our strongest High 6-C, Wiz, the girl who is currently Low-diff Cole, Aqua, who has decent Hax wall, Seresdina, who is what if Thunder McQueen was great. Konosuba I think currently has the best High 6-Cs in the wiki. But when you take a glance at the show or novels, they aren't portrayed OP at all. In fact, they are not just not bland, they are incredibly fleshed out, likable and in a way, feels relatable and human. This verse makes you care about these "OP" characters.

The way Konosuba flesh out the characters are really unique because it's more of a sitcom than an average Anime or Light Novels. In fact, the other Anime or Light Novel that use this technique I know is Baccano!. The technique is that they are fleshed out by jokes, or should I say, "plot". You see, many verse, even the good ones, flesh out the characters by pausing the plot, give as explanation or backstory, then moving on. And there is no wrong about this kind of expansion of character. This made a lot of great moments like Fate/Zero's conversation between Saber and Kiritsugu, but the problem is, they are pauses. Inefficient and sometimes drag down the series. Konosuba, recognizes this and gives you info about this characters as the series progress as fast as plot and jokes, both subtly and satisfyingly at the same time. By the time you reach volume 15, you know a whole bunch of stuff about these characters, from motivation, favorite food, origin, how they enjoy their time with their friends and so much more. This also makes Konosuba OP characters a lot more believable as IRL, almost no one shouts their philosophy or motivation out of the blue or having flashbacks everytime they get hurt or getting sad.

But how are they likable or relatable? Well, because they are basically as vulnerable like any other human beings unlike other OP verses. Vulnerable, I mean not in a physical sense, but the social and mental one. They lose money, they puke all over the place when drunk, they get miserable, they lose confidence, they fail. They are obviously aren't power fantasies and made to be both a parody and rejection of that. When Vanir fell in love with a human, he got really confused, which led to him getting friendzoned. When Aqua lost confidence, she fell into severe depression. Wiz had existential crisis for God's sake. These vulnerabilities made them less like written out characters and more like actual people. Not to mention most of them are pretty stupid which makes them an oddity to isekai genre. Another similarity of Konosuba to sitcom is the focus on the dynamics of the characters. Kazuma, Aqua, Megumin, Darkness combo is just one of the finest group in all of fiction, Vanir and Wiz are just fantastic, Dust and his co are just heartwarming at times. Everytime they talk to each other, the conversation is always fun because of the said character dynamics. Which makes you see them more and more and grow on you more and more.
 
Noise from Suite Pretty Cure has large-scale petrification, and Type 8 Immortality, among other things, because he is sadness incarnate. Also because he's sadness incarnate, just existing is painfull.
 
Power fantasies and escapist characters have been a thing since forever. Wasn't part of Peter Parker's charm when he very first came out that he was a relatable person to the young audience who got to be a superhero? There's nothing wrong with them per se nor liking them.

The issue at least I have is just how much nowadays is dedicated to pander to wish fulfillment; many works play the same beats, uses the same formulas, the same archetypes of characters and have legitimately good potential that is left unused. Not to mention, escapist characters can be well rounded and still be admirable, Sol Badguy is an example, the guy is a BAMF through and through, but Xrd neatly displays his shortcomings as a person (and how he's miserable because of them). The trend I spoke of are authors who indulge too much in it, make characters invincible or gave them flaws that go nowhere, essentially making them "perfect".

@Shiroyasha: Konosuba is actually a good example of avoiding that. I stick with what I said: a character can be very powerful if he has a good chemistry with his/her story. As you mention, despite all their abilities, Konosuba characters work so well because they are interesting as people, they have flaws as persons, and said flaws put them in trouble.

That is a good way to make it work and is precisely the issue with many OP protagonists; the story is bent on showing them off and showing the reader/viewer how cool the main character is, even if his powers are pretty reasonable. Little to no flaws in their characters, outside awkwardness or lack of confidence, at most, which are played as "cute" or for laughs rather than legitimate shortcomings, and usually just to have other characters gush or tell them they are actually awesome.
 
(Bows down in apology)

Wall of text incoming, once again sorry for the verbosity. Whatever stuff I got wrong let me know. Anyhow:

Nothing against or towards SAO or the guy himself, but when you think about it, until the Star King came along, Kirito, despite all the controversy the character has around him, wasn't that cheap as a character power-wise (and even the Star King, despite being very powerful, isn't a broken character IMHO). IIRC he wandered around City Block and Building level, which is a pretty reasonable tier, and most of his haxes were useful to assist his combat style, but nothing was really broken. I'd even say that Incarnation, despite being reality warping, is rather a balanced skill, with several limiting factors and how anyone potentially has it.

The issue with Kirito is precisely how (at least in the anime, can't speak for the novels) is that the story makes an effort to hype him up and place him above everyone else. Be it shilling, cannon fodder on his way, overshadowing his teammates, that's what hurts Kirito in the end. Doesn't help that the setting is a MMORPG where cooperation and teamwork is vital to achieve results, yet Kirito feels more like a character from an action game where is expectable to have a main character with formidable skills and powers that eclipse everyone else.

However, the issue is in how the guy is played rather than in the character itself when you think about it. As I mentioned, his powers aren't that unreasonable, a main character that is more powerful than most others is pretty common in shounen stories, nice guy who gets a harem was already a cliché by the time Kirito came along (I mean think of Tenchi Masaki who, from what I know popularized the nice harem guy and is one of the most powerful characters in all anime). Issue is that SAO indulged on several of those things at once, in a setting where it quite didn't work and the popularity of the franchise that led to more exposure, giving the vibe that Kirito was a collection of OP traits and that SAO invented the wish fulfillment in anime, which has been around in media since forever. Doesn't help that SAO proved that its particular formula was a sure sell so it was being seen a lot after that. And even then, IIRC, after Fairy Dance the story actually started to work on its shortcomings and address its own flaws.
 
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