Hatou Manabu Revisions

[First_Witch]

The problem is that if a single universe from a infinite multiverse still remained it would be not truly infinite. 2A would require the bust of the entire multiverse.

Dont get me wrong, i do not consider myself an expert on the series so i mostly speak in a theorizing manner regarding the seires. I can definitly see 2A Qualia happening. I (Or the wiki actually) require scans regarding that.

As for why i believe 2B to be more likely is because i never came across a statement that she can manipulate or destroy all possibiltys or worlds. Thats why i request the scan/ scans from witch you draw the conclusion that 2A is correct because like i already stated above, im not a physican so maybe i lost it while trying to understand what the author threw at me every chapter.

 

[TheSpeedster96]

It's infinity. Having one universe remain out of an infinite amount of them still has the result of infinity. A similar case being the Anti-Monifor rated as 2-A still despite one universe still existing after he destroyed the multiverse.

 

[Betaredex]

2-A requires an infinite number of 4-D systems, not ALL 4-D systems. There are an infinite number of even numbers, every even number is an integer, and there are an infinite number of integers, but that doesnt mean every integer is even.

 

[RM97]

But she did collapse all of the possibilities. Specifically in chapter 18 iirc when Mari says she's the only one who can change her own fate and Hatou makes it so that everything will be back to normal and there would be no need of travelling to other possibilities since she collapsed them all.

 

[RM97]

On a side note, shouldn't Hatou have Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation since she transcended the Theory of Everything (A type 2 concept) and was completely unbound from it as well as from everything in reality to the point she ceased to exist even as a Possibility.

 

[Antvasima]

@First Witch

What do you think about the new information?

 

[DontTalkDT]

So I have read the manga now.

My opinion is still more or less the same as in the last thread, I think. I don't think she is universe level or multiverse level.


But I think I'm going to do the explanations on my opinion either in a new thread or a blog (since that's going to be long. Quantum Mechanism tends to do that...) and not right away. No idea when I will get to writing it, though. So until then proceed as you wish.

 

[First_Witch]

Sorry for my late reply, i went to sleep afterwards.

@Speedster

Im not familiar with DC at all, so i cant judge that feat, but i still stand by my opinion. If you have a single universe remaining from a infinite multiverse universe you simply didnt bust the entire 2A multiverse. You busted maybe an obscene amount of universes but not the entire 2A construct. Now its a different matter if Character X choose to let a single one exist or if he, in Serge's example, merged every universe specificly into a single one.

@Betardex

I get where youre coming from, but your comparason dosnt fully work in this case. Qualia only has 2 sets of 4D systems, the actual worlds and the possibilitys. We dont give out 2A for destroying half and half from each. She either erased all worlds, all possibilitys or all together. And this is what i request, scans that states that she either collapsed all worlds or all possibilitys into one. Nothing more.

@RM97

Iffy on that. Im no expert in concept theories so you should maybe ask Assaltwaffle for that. From my uninformed standpoint i would say no, because trancending a single concept dosnt make you resistand to concept manipulation in general, only to stuff associated with it. But i would have to read up on the theory of everything to give a final input so dont value mine too highly here.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Replying only to this one...

"Im not familiar with DC at all, so i cant judge that feat, but i still stand by my opinion. If you have a single universe remaining from a infinite multiverse universe you simply didnt bust the entire 2A multiverse. You busted maybe an obscene amount of universes but not the entire 2A construct. Now its a different matter if Character X choose to let a single one exist or if he, in Serge's example, merged every universe specificly into a single one."
This is incredibly incorrect and flawed. Even if there is one universe left, that would still validate it as being a 2-A feat. Infinity isn't a number, it's an abstract idea. I'm not trying to be rude with this, but people seem to have this preconceived notion but even if you divide up infinity, no finite numerical value is going to remotely lower it being infinite. You cannot divide or subtract an abstract idea, infinity encompasses all possible values from no definite beginning or end.

So if said character is leaving behind one universe, that's still 2-A. It sounds dumb, but Mammoth Mogul in his second Tenure key literally gets rated as such for a similar reason that he destroyed every zone in an infinite multiverse aside from the Perpendicular Zone and Zone Prime. For a character to destroy and leave even 1 universe in a 2-A construct, they would need be able to effectively still destroy infinite other universes to make such even one universe remain.

Additionally, we just added infinite speed reasoning including crossing an infinite distance in a finite amount of time. Do you know what that relies on? D/T=S. Distance being Infinity, time being a value of whatever numerical finite value, resulting in infinity. Even with that division of an infinite value, we still consider that Infinite speed, not something MFTL+. The logic I'm using is incredibly consistent with site standards, just further disproving this specific argument.

 

[First_Witch]

Right, i concede on that.

 

[Betaredex]

My original point was that the the possibilities are ALL distinct worlds. The universe with magic existing was described by Manabu as another possibility, and it clearly isn't the same universe.

 

[Betaredex]

I was a bit confused by what your argument was so I gave an explanation that didn't really apply. Sorry about that.

 

[Betaredex]

Also, I think you're misunderstanding what 2-A is. To qualify as 2-A, you have to be able to destroy an infinite number of universes. Just because she didn't destroy every possibility doesn't mean she didn't destroy an infinite number of possibilities, which is the point I was trying to make before.

 

[First_Witch]

I already conceded on that and agree to 2A Manabu too. Its better to wait for DontTalk though. He has a far better gripe on Physics than me and his input is more valued in general.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Its better to wait for DontTalk though.

As said, just make whatever changes you agree on for now, as I have no idea when my respect blog for the series is gonna get finished.

 

[Betaredex]

Is everyone here in agreement on 2-A then?

 

[RM97]

Yes.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems so.

 

[DontTalkDT]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3117494

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. Should we close this thread then?