Hashirama vs Conquest

[Arkenis]

Attack Potency: Upscales from 56 petatons​ Lifting Strength: Class Z

​ Attack Potency: 7 Teratons physically, 63.28 petatons with wood style, 314.84 Petatons with SM wood style​ Lifting Strength: Class T physically, Class E with wood style

Equal Speed
Maximum ap diff is 5.60x
Starting distance 4km
Hashirama knows he's an alien sent to destroy Earth

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Following

 

[Kaydee1648]

Hashirama has so many speed amps to quickly turn this into a beat down

 

[Arkenis]

He's only got one speed amp. But do we assume it's the literal difference? Like from 0.14 to baseline FTL make it over 10x? That would make it a beat down I guess.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Hashirama doesn't spam Shunshin like that though, he ain't Shisui. He's reading every single move Conquest does like a book though thanks to Sage Mode's precog.

 

[Arkenis]

Could we just start in SM then or is there some unfairness?

 

[Arcker123]

Deity Gates gg I guess. Against flight. Being able to bring down Gates from the sky in blindspots would help significantly

Could we just start in SM then or is there some unfairness?

Hashirama can instantly enter the form so its not really meaningful either way

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Don't forget Hashirama can make a bunch of Wood Clones too and Substitution Jutsu can get him out of any unlucky killing blows that make it through his precog. To top it all off, Hashirama has some pretty good combat applicable regen too.

 

[Arkenis]

Deity Gates gg I guess. Against flight. Being able to bring down Gates from the sky in blindspots would help significantly

Hashirama can instantly enter the form so its not really meaningful either way

He can just dodge or break them. Well it'd remove it as a speed amp.

Don't forget Hashirama can make a bunch of Wood Clones too and Substitution Jutsu can get him out of any unlucky killing blows that make it through his precog. To top it all off, Hashirama has some pretty good combat applicable regen too.

True mere claps will blow them away like it did to Mark and he should be able to one shot any of them. But yeah it'll make this fight kinda heavily in Hashirama's side.

 

[Arcker123]

He can just dodge or break them.

Hashirama will be reading his moves waiting for the perfect time to strike. The Gates are Senjutsu Woodstyle that are 5x Conquests AP. Good luck breaking them.

Well it'd remove it as a speed amp.

The precog was that users stated issue. Said precog from inferior sage masters allowing them to overcome massive speed gaps effortlessly. Even if they were equal in speed, Sage Mode means Conquests is never touching Hashirama, even in CQC.

 

[Arkenis]

The precog was that users stated issue. Said precog from inferior sage masters allowing them to overcome massive speed gaps effortlessly. Even if they were equal in speed, Sage Mode means Conquests is never touching Hashirama, even in CQC.

Oh I see. Alright I'll find another character for Hashirama.

 

[Arcker123]

Yeah. Hashirama can just, turtle in a wood barrier and there's nothing conquest can do

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Hashirama doesn't spam Shunshin like that though, he ain't Shisui. He's reading every single move Conquest does like a book though thanks to Sage Mode's precog.

No everyone spams shunshin, Shisui was just better at it

 

[Foriaa]

Hashirama sleeps him with deep forest bloom or hits him with Kokuangyo removing his ability to see

 

[Arcker123]

I think we've uh, done enough to establish this isn't fair

No everyone spams shunshin, Shisui was just better at it

Not really. Most shinobi only use shunshin for travel. You'd be hard pressed to find most shinobi using shunshin in combat

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

I think we've uh, done enough to establish this isn't fair

Not really. Most shinobi only use shunshin for travel. You'd be hard pressed to find most shinobi using shunshin in combat

That’s because it’s so in grained into their movesets that you barely notice it being used unless it’s specifically pointed out. For combat example we see it as early as P1 Sakura of all people using it in combat not to mention Lee when he uses leaf lotus and much more

 

[Arcker123]

The mere fact that it has to be noted so consistently when flicker is being used in combat make it uncommon, no?

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

The mere fact that it has to be noted so consistently when flicker is being used in combat make it uncommon, no?

And that noted is? The only time sunshin was noted was during the chunin exam during Sakura vs Ino which explained its mechanic. Other than that moment it was never ever specifically singled out to be reference even the Lee example doesn’t say “look Lee is using sunshin with the lotus” it is a natural part of their moveset and to deny it is like saying Naruto using clones along his combo is an uncommon thing. Sunshin is basically just amping your feet with chakra it isn’t some special ace that shinboi can use only a handful of times, it’s as simple as breathing for them.

Shisui is just better at doing it to the point his moniker became that, it’s like saying just because Kakashi is called “Kakashi of the sharingan” that all sharingan users rarely use it

 

[DavidTPPM]

And that noted is? The only time sunshin was noted was during the chunin exam during Sakura vs Ino which explained its mechanic. Other than that moment it was never ever specifically singled out to be reference

Well erm actually it is mentioned several times. Some of these mentions may include but are not limited to:
Sasuke fighting Deidara
Naruto catching kid Boruto in ch700
Raikage using lightning shunshin against Madara
Tobirama and Minato traveling across countries
Sasuke fighting Haku as a kid
Sakura vs Ino
Naruto vs Raikage/Kisame

 

[DavidTPPM]

That being said, I don't think it's something extraordinary just because it sometimes gets mentioned. Usually the mentions are due to context making them unique.

Madara highlights Ay using shunshin because he's using a lightning style variant, and Madara is praising it alongside lava release as nifty abilities.

Boruto mentions it by saying "it's not fair" because he's not yet ninja and Naruto used a ninja technique to catch him.

Sakura and Sasuke mention it themselves because they just freshly learned it and haven't used it in combat before.

Bee mentioned it with kcm1 Naruto because he resembled Minato with it.

Tobirama mentioned it because he was comparing his and Minato's shunshin.


Saying it's unusual because characters mention it in situations like these is kidna like saying that punching is unusual because characters sometimes mention it during combat.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Well erm actually it is mentioned several times. Some of these mentions may include but are not limited to:
Sasuke fighting Deidara
Naruto catching kid Boruto in ch700
Raikage using lightning shunshin against Madara
Tobirama and Minato traveling across countries
Sasuke fighting Haku as a kid
Sakura vs Ino
Naruto vs Raikage/Kisame

Alr back to Wrath’s basement now David you ain’t getting out until we get l1A Naruto

 

[YungManzi]

Honestly; I believe Shunshin and substitution are two moves that get heavily downplayed by everyone (Including Naruto fans) in crossverse discussions, just because it’s not highly effective in-verse, where it is factually much more difficult to pull off than it ever would be against someone who isn’t a ninja.

If you’re the same speed as a competent ninja, you should have to prove you would even be able to tag them, you’re used to such abilities, you have extremely high battle iq, or can anticipate their movements with some kind of analytical prediction at the very least. That’s just my opinion though kek.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Honestly; I believe Shunshin and substitution are two moves that get heavily downplayed by everyone (Including Naruto fans) in crossverse discussions, just because it’s not highly effective in-verse, where it is factually much more difficult to pull off than it ever would be against someone who isn’t a ninja.

If you’re the same speed as a competent ninja, you should have to prove you would even be able to tag them, you’re used to such abilities, you have extremely high battle iq, or can anticipate their movements with some kind of analytical prediction at the very least. That’s just my opinion though kek.

Are you kidding me? Substitution Jutsu is absolutely broken in Versus Threads on VSB. It is an absolutely clutch ability in the back pocket of like 99.9% of Naruto characters.

 

[YungManzi]

Are you kidding me? Substitution Jutsu is absolutely broken in Versus Threads on VSB. It is an absolutely clutch ability in the back pocket of like 99.9% of Naruto characters.

I personally have never seen a versus thread where it was considered a major factor, but I also haven’t been very active recently lol

 

[Arcker123]

I personally have never seen a versus thread where it was considered a major factor, but I also haven’t been very active recently lol

Itachi debaters aren't doing enough smh

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I personally have never seen a versus thread where it was considered a major factor, but I also haven’t been very active recently lol

Literally every matchup where someone throws Deku at a Naruto character Substitution Jutsu is their greatest get out of jail free card against his absurd LS advantage and Blackwhip.

 

[YungManzi]

Literally every matchup where someone throws Deku at a Naruto character Substitution Jutsu is their greatest get out of jail free card against his absurd LS advantage and Blackwhip.

I feel like Deku is a rare case. Most Naruto characters have LS far better than those in their tier.