Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Why wouldn't he counter? He has a robe that deflects weak magic attacks. & why does LS matter?I don't see Haruka countering nor SOUL attacks nor Gravity Hax with that LS of his, what about his luck? Is it a thing like Hajime's?
To counter gravity manip, that is Sans' opening move.why does LS matter?
A guy who has an actual combat applicable Extreme Luck.As for his Luck... His profile is a bit unclear on the matter.
Supernatural Luck (His luck is at maximum level), Probability Manipulation (Haruka can decrease the chance that someone will enter his home, and is unable to get a job or join a party. Due to his high luck, Haruka can consistently hit critical hits)
So I'm unsure. Also, dunno who Hajime is.
- [Avoidance]: Improves the skill to dodge attacks.
Hikikomori: A title that protects the interior of the user's home. Basically, it alters the probability of someone trying to break into his home while sleeping.- NEET: Due to this title, Haruka is unable to get a job, giving him bad luck, like when he tried to enroll in the adventurer's guild but was unable to because the required level was 10.
- Bocchi: A skill that matches Haruka's lonely personality. Due to this, he is unable to join a party and people will refuse to be in the same party as him. As a countermeasure, this title has an ovelord-like ability, called [Subjugation], which allows Haruka to manipulate monsters or people to use them as his minions.
Apologies, but does Sans not begin with a barrage of bones & Gaster Blasters, then ask why more people don't begin with their strongest move? Not that I deny the possibility there is evidence, but why is Gravity Manipulation Sans's opening move?To counter gravity manip, that is Sans' opening move.
No disagreements from me here. (About Hajime's luck anyway, lol.)
No, he increases the gravity as 1st move, to then hit the opponent from under them as they're blocked to the ground.Apologies, but does Sans not begin with a barrage of bones & Gaster Blasters, then ask why more people don't begin with their strongest move? Not that I deny the possibility there is evidence, but why is Gravity Manipulation Sans's opening move?
Unknown because as a 9-B monster, we don't know how much is superior to average human's, and that's irrelevant as his gravity manip can affect Frisk who's Unknown too in LS.But on the topic of Lifting Strength, Sans has Unknown Lifting Strength, & is called the Weakest Monster. Haruka has Average Human Lifting Strength. (Though both lack justifications one way or another.)
Are those though-based or action based? Is pretty important to know.As for countering Gravity Manipulation....
- [Weight Magic]: It allows to control the weight, either to reduce or increase it. It is unknown if it works only on the user or also on other people. Haruka is able to use it on his own to be more agile by reducing weight, or simulate the ability to fly by combining it with wind magic.
- [Wind Magic]: Magic that manipulates the wind element. When it is combined with Weight Magic, Haruka is able to fly.
Increasing the weight would make the situation only worse and the magic work on the SOUL, does his verse's magic cover even SOUL manip?In theory, Haruka could make himself too heavy for Sans to lift (I doubt Sans's upper limit is that high, considering his title) , or failing that, make himself lighter, since less mass carries less force, though I'm unsure if that would actually work to soften being flung against a wall.
& it seems in-character for him to use it, since he uses it to get around quickly & do pseudo-flight, so I'd presume he'd try this.
(Also, do we know if Sans's TK/Gravity Manipulation are Magic, especially with Verse Equalization in mind?)
Don't Undertale monsters describe typical humans as horrifically strong? & are made of magic rather than physical flesh? I do not think that that, especially alongside his reputation as the weakest monster, gives Sans a strong case for his Unknown Lifting Strength to be that impressive.No, he increases the gravity as 1st move, to then hit the opponent from under them as they're blocked to the ground.
Unknown because as a 9-B monster, we don't know how much is superior to average human's, and that's irrelevant as his gravity manip can affect Frisk who's Unknown too in LS.
Unfortunately, I haven't read the books, light novels, nor manga, so I don't know how he performs those actions. Though I'm skeptical how much difference it makes, given Speed is Equalized, but I can definitely imagine needing to twiddle your fingers to use magic (Again, I don't know if Haruka needs to do such or not do magic.) is important in an action economy.Are those though-based or action based? Is pretty important to know.
So Sans's Telekinesis, & also his Gravity Manipulation, both work on the same principle that they affect the SOUL, causing it to move, & the affected's body moves because of the SOUL's influencing?Increasing the weight would make the situation only worse and the magic work on the SOUL, does his verse's magic cover even SOUL manip?
Undertale humans are way stronger and different from irl ones, so moot point.Don't Undertale monsters describe typical humans as horrifically strong?
??????????Also, you just now said: "and that's irrelevant as his gravity manip can affect Frisk who's Unknown too in LS.".
But earlier, you said: "I don't see Haruka countering nor SOUL attacks nor Gravity Hax with that LS of his, what about his luck? Is it a thing like Hajime's?" & when I asked "Why does LS matter?" you replied "To counter gravity manip, that is Sans' opening move.".
With that in mind, I ask: Why have you now said LS is irrelevant when you spoke about it as if LS was important to countering the Gravity Manipulation?
We should wait a knowedgable member of the verse then.Unfortunately, I haven't read the books, light novels, nor manga, so I don't know how he performs those actions. Though I'm skeptical how much difference it makes, given Speed is Equalized, but I can definitely imagine needing to twiddle your fingers to use magic (Again, I don't know if Haruka needs to do such or not do magic.) is important in an action economy.
We don't know the LS of those humans, though, & if Undertale monsters find humans scarily strong, why would Sans, the WEAKEST of them, have superior Lifting Strength?
"I don't see Haruka countering nor SOUL attacks nor Gravity Hax with that LS of his", implies to me you were saying the Gravity Hax COULD have been countered with sufficiently high Lifting Strength.??????????
I didn't understood a thing. I never said that LS is irrelevant lmfao.
Although it's an easy assumption to make, other than that, why do you say he seems to need to see the attack to copy it?We should wait a knowedgable member of the verse then.
About the rest, instead, it seems more that he has to see the attack to copy it, and that'ts irrelevant if Sans one-shots his SOUL with his attacks.
Why is Sans 12 times stronger with Magic?About AP, well, he's physically 0.00114 Tons/4769760 Joules, with magic instead, it should be around x12 times above, without counting his Durability negation powers.
Did I say that sans has LS? I said that his gravity hax works on people with LS >= Average Human, that is Frisk.We don't know the LS of those humans, though, & if Undertale monsters find humans scarily strong, why would Sans, the WEAKEST of them, have superior Lifting Strength?
Iirc in a thread it was stated such about gravity increase in general."I don't see Haruka countering nor SOUL attacks nor Gravity Hax with that LS of his", implies to me you were saying the Gravity Hax COULD have been countered with sufficiently high Lifting Strength.
This existsI'm also skeptical if Sans should one-shot when he's the weakest monster, & his attacks that always harm on hit are also fixed damage, individually.)
If you read his profile, you'd know that with his magic he can harm Frisk, who's physically x12 stronger than him.Why is Sans 12 times stronger with Magic?
Apologies for any bother.Ok, this is getting stupid, ngl.
It does, & Sans does have it, but I still question it, even if I don't question Sans having it; Sans always does the same damage to Frisk/Chara. Isn't he's Durability Negating by using Soul Manipulation, despite Frisk/Chara having Resistance to Soul Manipulation? & doing the same damage every time?
My mistake, thanks for the clarification. (Though, that's for his AP, & his Durability is at a different value, right?)If you read his profile, you'd know that with his magic he can harm Frisk, who's physically x12 stronger than him.
Any monster negates durability by default as they attack both the body and the SOUL with their attacks, and theur SOULs are strong enough to survive such attacks as physical ones, that's why the resistance for anyone in the verse. This applies to Frisk too, but Sans can bypass said resistance with KARMA, making his SOUL manip way stronger than "baseline SOUL attacks".It does, & Sans does have it, but I still question it; Sans always does the same damage to Frisk/Chara. Isn't he's Durability Negating by using Soul Manipulation, despite Frisk/Chara having Resistance to Soul Manipulation? & doing the same damage every time?
Plus, Sans talks about always using your strongest attacks, & always goes all out for huge quantities of attacks, & that SOUL Poison stuff, too? & his Telekinesis/Gravity Manipulation?
Why have attacks like that, why go all out if he could one-shot his opponents anyway?
& other monsters have Durability Negation, too, don't they? But Sans's attacks are weaker than their attacks, individually.
Thus, I'd assume, even against those who don't resist his attacks, Sans still needs multiple hits to defeat his opponents, hence the huge quantities of projectiles.
Sans has 1 in both AP and DEF in physicals that is 4769760 J in the verse, just that his attacks are way stronger than that.My mistake, thanks for the clarification. (Though, that's for his AP, & his Durability is at a different value, right?)
I was aware of all of that, except the KARMA bit. As I recall, Karma was a part of Sans's fight where after taking damage from his attacks, additional damage would gradually accrue over time, for each individual hit that struck Frisk/Chara.Any monster negates durability by default as they attack both the body and the SOUL with their attacks, and theur SOULs are strong enough to survive such attacks as physical ones, that's why the resistance for anyone in the verse. This applies to Frisk too, but Sans can bypass said resistance with KARMA, making his SOUL manip way stronger than "baseline SOUL attacks".
Sans has 1 in both AP and DEF in physicals that is 4769760 J in the verse, just that his attacks are way stronger than that.
This whole thing assumes that his SOUL magic already isn't one-shotting Haruka due of lack of resistance to SOUL hax.I was aware of all of that, except the KARMA bit. As I recall, Karma was a part of Sans's fight where after taking damage from his attacks, additional damage would gradually accrue over time, for each individual hit that struck Frisk/Chara.
Are you saying that we treat KARMA as amping the total damage done by each individual hit, upon the time of hitting?
(Though I still find it counterintuitive that "the weakest monster in The Underground" would have the strongest-hitting attacks measured on damage per individual hit, when his whole gimmick is doing only 1 damage per hit.)
Sans's attacks >> his stats, nuff else.Still, thanks for the clarification. So I presume it's meant to only be interpreted that Sans is weaker in AP & Durability (In Sans's case, at Wall Level?), Physically, whereas his magical offenses are stronger than that, & magic doesn't influence Sans's own durability?
I mean, is there ANYONE in Undertale without Soul Manipulation resistance? No humans are fought other than Frisk/Chara, so we don't know if they're the exception or the norm.This whole thing assumes that his SOUL magic already isn't one-shotting Haruka due of lack of resistance to SOUL hax.
Sans's attacks >> his stats, nuff else.
Maybe because they resist his dura neg?I mean, is there ANYONE in Undertale without Soul Manipulation resistance? No humans are fought other than Frisk/Chara, so we don't know if they're the exception or the norm.
& Sans doesn't fight anyone other than Frisk/Chara, & despite ignoring durability, he needs to land several tens of his attacks to defeat Frisk/Chara.
You even admitted that you don't know the verse, aka you don't know what he leads with.Though, I think all of this might be moot if Haruka leads with Subjugation, since then it's Mind Manipulation, GG.
It MAY also be moot if Hitoribocchi no Isekai Kouryaku has Soul Manipulation magic (Or even if not) because if Haruka's cape can reflect Sans's magic, Sans pretty much loses, & it's possible it's the right kind, depending on what the stance regarding Verse Equalization is in this case.
Haruka being able to copy Sans's magic (Sans leads with telekinesis, throws Haruka, & if Haruka lives & does it back to Sans, how do we know Sans can survive?) could also mean Haruka wins.
That's what I just said; We haven't seen anyone in Undertale be one-shot by Sans, because nobody in Undertale LACKS Soul Manipulation resistance.Maybe because they resist his dura neg?
Indeed, I don't know the 'verse beyond what I've read on the profile.You even admitted that you don't know the verse, aka you don't know what he leads with.
That's non-sense, they aren't one-shot from it because they are resistant, otherwise they wouldn't be.That's what I just said; We haven't seen anyone in Undertale be one-shot by Sans, because nobody in Undertale LACKS Soul Manipulation resistance.
& as you said, "Sans can bypass said resistance with KARMA, making his SOUL manip way stronger than "baseline SOUL attacks".".
Every character Sans has fought, all one of them, has it, & while it's true it might be a high amount of Resistance, it also took Sans many hits to do it, so I'd assume it could require him to land multiple hits, even against non-resistant opponents, if he's going all out, using durability negation & still requiring dozens of connected attacks to get a kill.
Contacted the creator of his profileAlso, what's the point of you pointing this out? It was already established earlier a knowledgeable member of the 'verse's input should be had, & I assume you haven't read the books, light novels or manga, since you suggested getting a knowledgeable member.
(Though, I doubt it will progress much to just wait.)
I'm not saying that the resistant characters should be one-shot.That's non-sense, they aren't one-shot from it because they are resistant, otherwise they wouldn't be.
Aka he gets one-shot because he lacks resistance, simply as that.
Thank you for this.
Is standard assumption, since there are no proofs that a character can resist getting their soul attacked without resistance to it, resulting in its instant destruction.What makes us so sure Undertale Soul Manipulation one-shots those without Soul Manipulation resistance when it's never been used on those without resistance to demonstrate that it does one shot such characters?
I hadn't realized that was the case. Where was that assumption established?Is standard assumption, since there are no proofs that a character can resist getting their soul attacked without resistance to it, resulting in its instant destruction.
If my memory serves, Bleach's Soul stuff, Reiryoku, functions more like an aura. It's pressure from it, & crushes those without sufficient spiritual power themselves. Reiryoku crush or Reiatsu Crush or such I think it's called?Is more an unrwritten rule tbh, souls are getting destroyed against a soul attack without a resistance since they lack feats of defending against attacks directed towards them, as they, again, lack feats, and such, we can't assume that they get destroyed.
Like, look at the Bleach threads to get an example, they one-shot foes which lack resistance to soul attacks as the opponents don't resist their soul being hit, as it lacks "durability feats"
Meanwhile in UT SOUL fights are a thing on daily basis, and thus the SOULs can defend against attacks since they're stronger than the "average soul" that didn't show the ability to tank them.
I KNOW THAT. That's my point!That just means that unlike regular souls, UT's can resist attack of them due of how the verse works.
Simple, it loses them all as it never shown to be able to resist such.A Soul Manipulating Attack from Undertale hits Soul A. Soul A does NOT have Resistance to Soul Manipulation. How much HP does it lose?
But the opposite: That Undertale SOUL Attacks one-shot Souls without Resistance to Soul Manipulation, was never demonstrated!Simple, it loses them all as it never shown to be able to resist such.
For one, the resistance could be to take less damage from that type of attack, as opposed to preventing it one-shotting.You're now telling me that a durability negation hax doesen't one shot characters with no resistance to it because no feat? What's the point of the resistance then?
Source on that claim, please?Durability Negation always one shots without resistance to it...
Unwritten rule duhIt does not say having Durability Negation always results in one shots.
No duh. "No duh" as in, pretty sure that's not how things are done here. Information not on a profile or a page proper is not to be used, because it isn't properly documented on our Wiki.Unwritten rule duh
Are you new here?No duh. "No duh" as in, pretty sure that's not how things are done here. Information not on a profile or a page proper is not to be used, because it isn't properly documented on our Wiki.
Get an actual source on your claim.
If you hovered over my username, you could see my join date for the new forum, & I've also been on the old forum.Are you new here?