Guts vs Killua Zoldyck

[Chariot190]

Nothing is stopping him from using the Yo-Yo's, but Guts is pretty skilled himself and can just dodge, deflect with his 7ft sword or whatever.
The Yo-Yo's just amount to an attack, it's good, but it isn't a wincondition, it's no different than Guts having neat attacks too.

I'm not going to comment on death manip, if it's a thing, this is a mismatch. My only concern is maybe Guts causality shit can help or whatever. He has fairy dust tho so parahax could maybe be healed? Assuming the armor doesn't puppet him.

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

Welp I am not the most knowledgeable on Guts(I know basic things, but this causality hax scapes me)Do you think you could tell me how his causality hax and fairy dust work?

 

[Chariot190]

Fairy dust is dust, from a fairy, that heals stuff.

And causality stuff is overly convoluted, I wouldn't do a very good job elaborating, ig we treat it as a resistance to causality and fate + passive probability that let's him evade certain death.
"Passive Probability Manipulation (Due to the circumstances of his birth, he has the supernatural ability to evade certain death)"

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

Huh. That could be good. Has the fairy dust been proven to resist death manip or paralyzing?

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Death manipulation only works for an extended period of time and if the opponent is unable to move. Since Guts can resist fear manipulation and has resistance to telepathy, he should easily be capable of moving and attacking Killua.

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

But the thing is, the paralysis and fear manipulation aren’t the same. They are just all effects of Ren. Killua wasn’t paralyzed by fear when exposed to Zushi’s weak Ren, the fear made him run, which wouldn’t have worked if they were the same thing. Another key factor could be the Rhythm Echo

 

[Dr._whiteee]

That doesn't matter?
He gave Meruem most of his power, and the clone was just a fraction of his power post fact. Of course it wasn't explained in that scene it'd be weaker, but they already it extensively before that point in how that ability works, no need to reiterate what was already said, that's just bad writing.

I don't recall the drone being sent to Meruem being most of his power. In fact I'm pretty sure it is the opposite but I'd have to check. Either way, were dealing with someone well, well, beyond average human level durability having their cells incinerated.

We know his clones only have a fraction of his power, saying Killua wounded a RG is disingenuous. It leaves out how he's drastically weaker in that state, stop of already being weakened.

It is because he is still a royal guard and even Pouf was able to take a killing blow from Meruem IIRC, so he isn't some slouch. He also still would scale well above fodder ants who range from building to city block level.

We're not downplaying, Pouf, normally is comparable to the other guards, it's just in this specific situation there's other factors at play..
Like there's a good reason Killua isn't scaling to Pouf's normal rating.

I get that, I never said he should fully scale to him though, you keep assuming things about our discussion. I was giving you the best feats he had for potency.

That's what you wrote.


That's what you said, if that isn't what you meant that isn't my fault.

I'm not sure how you derived your conclusion from what I wrote given that I explicitly said he made the technique based on his experiences receiving shocked. Not sure how that translated to "Killua's lightning is an amalgamation of all the shocks he has taken in his life".

But not really relevant if we understand each other now.

But can you even? Just because he has good resistance doesn't mean his lightning he uses is better than his own resistance, we need evidence or a statement. While I agree it should be > 1m volts, you haven't posted any proof it is either, even if you did that's still 300x below Guts.

Yeah, I don't see why not. We are specifically told that he would need extensive experience dealing with electrical attacks in order to then craft a technique based off of that. It stands to reason his attacks would be > an attack Killua literally treated like dirt. Especially given the factual potency of Nen, let alone Hatsu and this being lightning > his base level from Godspeed.

You can't just point to voltage values and scale as such. Not all the volts are going into the person when struck by lightning. Meanwhile Killua has directly hooked up the current of the 1m volts.

Honestly, it made have evidence to be situational, if memory serves, Killua has to actively charge up his lightning. In the scene you posted, he procs it by taking

Correct, he has to charge himself up at times in order to keep using his hatsu.

I'm just replying to what you said as outlined above, if that isn't what you meant, that isn't my fault. That's just how your post is worded.

I don't agree but once again at this point it's immaterial if we're on the same page.

Yes it does? He was attacked by a living cloud with intent to fry him, it's why he got that resistance.

It's not, unless the standards have changed.

The energy of electricity can directly be calculated if its current and electrical potential difference is known.

If the current is a ampere and the electrical potential difference is v volt, then the power of the lightning is given as a*v J/s. Usually 1 second of this is addressed to the AP, unless the electrical flow couldn't be sustained for that long.

It should be noted that for real electricity enduring a lightning strike usually doesn't require durability equal to the lightnings full energy. There are two reasons for that:

1. The lightning will usually take only a certain path through the body. Along that path there can be strong burns, but the rest can be largely unaffected.
2. The lightning doesn't discharge its entire energy in the human body. It will usually also heat up the air and pass on into the ground where its energy disperses. The amount of energy lightning produces in form of heat when flowing through is largely determined by the objects electrical resistance.

Looking for the thread where this was discussed in depth, but I am also sure the lightning needs to display hax electrical effects as well in order to qualify for granting resistance.

Now am not making a claim that Berserk's lightning doesn't have this, I am just clarifying the standards I have seen.

Guts in the armor is ridiculously above his normal AP. He can hit so hard he breaks his own arms and pushes back and overwhelms those that dog walks his base.
No solid number, but it can be tremendous.

How much though? Killua is already beginning with solid AP advantage and becomes much faster than guts with Ranmaru. He was also once again able to physically effect Youpi with his physical strikes. Something not even Knuckle could do despite Youpi being legit stunned. Base Killua once again much weaker physically than Ant Palm who is <<< Youpi.

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

I don't recall the drone being sent to Meruem being most of his power. In fact I'm pretty sure it is the opposite but I'd have to check. Either way, were dealing with someone well, well, beyond average human level durability having their cells incinerated.

just mentioning right now that it was indeed most of Pouf’s power. Meruem had eaten most of Pouf’s clones already and he only left a few behind. The Pouf Killua fought is indeed a weakened version of a clone which are already weaker. Not trying to say its weak(Shaiapouf is slept on a lot, people do tend to forget that he tanked a hit from Meruem and wasn’t that harmed) but just making a correction(also planning a large Hunter X Hunter upgrade that will make this feat more impressive but for now such can’t be used)

 

[Dr._whiteee]

just mentioning right now that it was indeed most of Pouf’s power. Meruem had eaten most of Pouf’s clones already and he only left a few behind. The Pouf Killua fought is indeed a weakened version of a clone which are already weaker. Not trying to say its weak(Shaiapouf is slept on a lot, people do tend to forget that he tanked a hit from Meruem and wasn’t that harmed) but just making a correction(also planning a large Hunter X Hunter upgrade that will make this feat more impressive but for now such can’t be used)

I see, thank you for the information. That does indeed make it a lot less impressive.

 

[Chariot190]

I don't recall the drone being sent to Meruem being most of his power. In fact I'm pretty sure it is the opposite but I'd have to check. Either way, were dealing with someone well, well, beyond average human level durability having their cells incinerated.

Yeah so? Average human level is completely and utterly pointless here.

It is because he is still a royal guard and even Pouf was able to take a killing blow from Meruem IIRC, so he isn't some slouch. He also still would scale well above fodder ants who range from building to city block level.

So? That doesn't effect anything about what I said? Just because Pouf is strong in general doesn't mean Pouf in that instance was as strong as he usually is.

I get that, I never said he should fully scale to him though, you keep assuming things about our discussion. I was giving you the best feats he had for potency.

And the bets feta you gave ignores the actual context for the character in question, it's less I'm assuming, and more I'm calling you out for leaving out details that would inflate it beyond what it actually is.

I'm not sure how you derived your conclusion from what I wrote given that I explicitly said he made the technique based on his experiences receiving shocked. Not sure how that translated to "Killua's lightning is an amalgamation of all the shocks he has taken in his life".

But not really relevant if we understand each other now.

Because the words you wrote indicated as such? Even if that isn't what you meant, the way you worded it says that.

Yeah, I don't see why not. We are specifically told that he would need extensive experience dealing with electrical attacks in order to then craft a technique based off of that. It stands to reason his attacks would be > an attack Killua literally treated like dirt. Especially given the factual potency of Nen, let alone Hatsu and this being lightning > his base level from Godspeed.

I mean, not how it works? Your argument is basically "I feel like it should be".
I don't think that taser Killua drained in his display was a million volts either lad.

ou can't just point to voltage values and scale as such. Not all the volts are going into the person when struck by lightning. Meanwhile Killua has directly hooked up the current of the 1m volts.

I don't think you understand, it wasn't just lightning, he was actively struck with intent by a demonic lightning cloud, while wearing and encased in solid metal armor. He's taking the whole of it mate.

Correct, he has to charge himself up at times in order to keep using his hatsu.

Exactly, why would him draining a taser implicate the energy and lightning he casts from taking that electrical current is always going to be above 1m volts?
In fact it pretty obviously insinuates it varies. Killua draining a car battery isn't going to output a million volts, but if he sits at a station for like a hour draining that shit the whole time to charge his hatsu, it's obviously going to have a way, way, stronger charge.

It's not, unless the standards have changed.

The energy of electricity can directly be calculated if its current and electrical potential difference is known.

Little hard when it's lightning that eclipses (lol) natural lightning, Guts is caked in metals, the lightning is aimed directly at him and even from a distance it can to things to ash. Based on what we know it's safe to assume he's well, taking shit far beyond what normal lightning can do.

Looking for the thread where this was discussed in depth, but I am also sure the lightning needs to display hax electrical effects as well in order to qualify for granting resistance.

It's literally lightning lad, from a sentient storm cloud, it doesn't need to portray anything at that point, we know what it is, but ignoring that, yeah? It even acts like lightning in behaviour, Guts ends up negging it by just using his stuff like a lightning rod, it causes flinching, etc.

We're not here to argue about Guts, we're arguing if Killua's lightning is enough to supersede giant **** off lightning. Hurting a weak Pouf clone is unquantifiable at best.

How much though? Killua is already beginning with solid AP advantage and becomes much faster than guts with Ranmaru.

I just said how much?

He was also once again able to physically effect Youpi with his physical strikes. Something not even Knuckle could do despite Youpi being legit stunned. Base Killua once again much weaker physically than Ant Palm who is <<< Youpi.

Lad, I hope you realize the Youpi argument is never going to hold water, ignoring the bigger issue with that sequence was Youpi was getting blitzed and the strikes were more like that of an annoying fly bar the shocks, which is par for the course as Youpi lacks res. Killua also isn't rated in the kilo to low megaton range, which would need to be the case in order for you to legitimately argue such a thing.

Also, I'm not even arguing for Guts, what I'm doing is arguing why the shocks aren't a win condition for Killua.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

How has this not been brought up yet.
Killua can use Ken
Ken is a 10x Multiplier
Killua can use Godspeed which is slightly faster than Guts
Killua One shots if Guts can't dodge GG

My vote is for Killua

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Voting Killua

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

You should probably start tallying votes so people know this thread is going somewhere @CiscoTheSoto

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Bump

You gotta tally the votes man!!

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[Juggernaught]

Killua FRA

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[jojo123]

Killua FRA

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Killua fra

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Guess I'll also vote for Killua due to the amps his Ken, Ko and Ryu can provide, in addition to the increased speed that Godspeed provides him.