Guts' Durability.

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Guts is listed as building+, one of the reasons is tanking hits from Zodd yet Zodd is city block. Would that not make Guts city block in durability? If so Guts' dura shpuld be upgraded that or Zodd should be downgraded.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Zodd scales to Skull Knight for having fought him for centuries, so the real question is what puts SK at city block level?

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Being above Guts who has city block AP feats I think? Maybe some tornado and Shiva stuff?

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

I'd imagine that he's basically Guts' superior, for having gained the demon armor and all, would put him above base Guts.

If Guts managed to contend with monster Zodd on the hill of swords, then I'd imagine he should scale.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Guts should scale to the lowerend of what Zodd is at in my opinion. He's not equal to Zodd but he can still fight him. So if Zodd's AP is cityblock then Guts' dura should be low-end city block.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Well we have Mozgus performing a casual city block level feat, which Guts should scale to for having tanked his attacks and harmed him in return.


Though the calc is taking a while to get off the ground.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

That's not half bad, didn't Guts even block his flames at one point? But that needs to be accepted first, at least Zodd is already at cityblock which Guts should scale too (especially since his profile states his dura is half from Zodd)

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

I'm pretty Guts straight up no selled a breath attack at some point, no?

Yeah, still waiting on the calc to be cleared.

But still, Guts should at least be low-end city block for contending with Monster Zodd

 

[Antvasima]

I think that it seems reasonable to upgrade Guts' durability, but would appreciate more staff input.

 

[Dark649]

Zodd was likely not going to be fully serious against Guts as Grunbeld was able to damage him, but since Muzgus feat and Ganishka casual one, plus Guts being able to defeat Apostle Muzgus and survive Apostle Zodd, makes him and Base Grunbeld Low-End 8-B.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I vaguely recall that Guts' durability was lower than his attack potency because his full power causes him great physical damage.

 

[Dark649]

His full power causes him great physical damage.

That comes from the Berserker Armor, which for now he only used it to kill Apostle Grunbeld.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Never mind then.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

His full power causes him great physical damage.

That comes from the Berserker Armor, which for now he only used it to kill Apostle Grunbeld.

Didn't Guts and co run away from Grunbeld before they finished their fight?

 

[Dark649]

Didn't Guts and co run away from Grunbeld before they finished their fight?

The fight is simple, Base Guts fought Base Grunbeld, but the latter overpowered Guts, so he had to escape and use the Berserker Armor in order to fight him, which forced Grumbeld to transform into Apostle Grumbeld, which held his own with Guts, but ended up being killed.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Didn't one of the witches create a fire that blocked him from chasing after them?

 

[SheevShezarrine]

The fight is simple, Base Guts fought Base Grunbeld, but the latter overpowered Guts, so he had to escape and use the Berserker Armor in order to fight him, which forced Grumbeld to transform into Apostle Grumbeld, which held his own with Guts, but ended up being killed.

No. Grunbeld survived.

 

[Dark649]

Anyway, here is the full fight as i am not that much knowledgeble about the series.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

In the Grunbeld fight Guts was lethally injured, it's not that he couldn't fight base Grunbeld, its that he was currently dying and he needed the armor so he wouldn't die from his current wounds cause he just got out of fighting a God Hand. And he fought Zodd twice, the first time Zodd was definitely not at his best but the second Time on the hill of swords? Is debatable.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Yeah the Grunbeld fight starts with Guts being overwhelmed by Base Grunbeld due to the fact that Guts is inhibited by a wound given to him by one of the God Hands that attacked him during his fight with the trolls.

The Witch gives Guts the Berserker Armor so he can muscle through the pain and fight at 100% percent. Guts quickly overwhelms Base Grunbeld, even managing to block his dragon canon shot by using his own arm canon.

Berserker Guts even managed to block two shots from Apostle Grunbeld, but at the cost of a broken arm and a broken leg. The fight ends with the Older Witch creating a wall of fire to block Grunbeld so Guts and Co can run away.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Also, could someone expand more on the part where it states that the Berserker Armor tears Guts apart? Because the only instance of that that I remember was during the Grunbeld fight, and that was because he was tanking attacks that were too much for him, and as a result, broke his bones. In his other fights with his armor, he was fine iirc.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Pretty sure they mean that since Guts doesn't care about pain he'd swing his sword so hard it'll shatter his own bones from recoil which the berserker armor will fix so he can continue fighting.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

That happened against a group of fodder Apostles I think.

But when Berserker Guts fought the monster at the beach, his body was fine with the exception of the wound he got from the God Hand lady which reopened due to his movements. I think he was fine during the Sea God battle as well

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

I think maybe in the battle on port? If not then that shouldn't be a thing.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Which port battle?

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

The battle before Zodd and Guts teamed up is the only other fight I can think where he used the armor

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

The one against the weird elephant monsters? Cause every wound he got was from others attacks, not his own power.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

I vaguely recall he swung his sword hard enough to break his arms but if that doesn't exist then it obviously doesn't make a difference. They could be referring to when it says the armor tears into the bones and flesh but it does that to fix the bones and wounds, not cause further damage.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Yeah, I didn't see that happening in the the port battle. Every attack he made, even after transforming, only hurt his opponents, not himself.

The only instance of this I could find is when he tried to counter Grunbelds tail swing with his own attack, and then broke his arm/leg.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Then that's more a case of Grunbeld>Guts then the armor itself.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Well Grunbeld was made out of Corundum, which is stronger than steel, so makes sense.

And Berserker Guts only managed to overwhelm Base Grunbeld, when he transformed, Guts could only defend against his attacks, to varying degrees of success.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so the conclusion is that Guts' durability should be upgraded to the same level as his attack potency then?

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

At least low end city block for fighting Zodd, potentially equal to his AP if we go by the fact ya need dura equal to AP to avoid damaging yourself. City block regardless if the Mozgus calc is accepted as Guts tanked the same attack that was calced even before getting the armor

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that seems fine.

 

[Dark649]

So, i can add City Block level for Base Guts and Grunbeld.

 

[Kaltias]

Doesn't Zood scales from Skull Knight who scales from Berserker Guts tho? Also while we are at this, isn't the justification for the 8-B Berserker Guts calc stacking?

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

There's a Mozgus calc that's city block, Skull Knight scales off Guts sure and Zodd off him and off Guts but that's for AP this is for durability. If ya want more justification he's capable of damaging/killing Zodd and high end Apostles with Dragon Slayer

 

[Dark649]

It could be, but they scales to Ganishka lightning and Apostle Muzgus Breath.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Schierke also has a 45 ton feat if I recall too.

 

[Kaltias]

If there are calcs, fine, they need to be linked tho