Jackythejack
They/Them- 20,020
- 1,720
Okay so this is something I've just been annoyed about for a while, so I'm going to just bring it up now.
A lot of weaponry for GTA 5 to Saints Row 3 is 9-A because it blow up cars, and then it links to, generally, this calc. Unfortunately, this calc is only made for complete fragmentation of the car. In most of these games, the car is not completely fragmented, but just greatly damaged to the point where it's usually a frame, or most of the body is still, generally, intact. Refer to this page to see what I'm talking about. All of these vehicles have been blown up or, generally, gone to the greatest level of disrepair in the game. These are not fully fragmentated vehicles.
At most, you argue these things fragmentate parts of cars, but not all of them. Some of these profiles even state as much, saying they're reduced to simply charred metal. My point is that this 9-A rating doesn't work. Even for Saints Row, which is generally weirder. You don't fully fragment cars you just kind of reduce them to a frame. Same with planes, and helicopters. Even moreso in these cases, because for the most part large parts of the vehicles are perfectly fine. To make my point clear, here's a screengrab from SR2 where the blown up cars are perfectly fine.
And before I move on from GTA, I just want to say that Trevor's durability shouldn't be 8-C either. Nothing in the game reaches that level, and you'd be lucky if it reaches 9-A at all. Maybe the blimp explosion does, but that's hardly caused solely by player weapons, but rather igniting gases inside of the blimp or something along those lines. Point is, nerf Trevor's durability.
Moving on to Saints Row, this also needs downgrade from 9-A. I'm just going to go through the justifications for the Boss' rating and we'll go from there.
This isn't full fragmentation. Hard to spot at times but the car's shell goes flying around. This is mainly blowing off tires, hoods, and other small parts of the vehicle, not fragmenting the whole thing together. Even then the pieces of the car stay together fairly well, meaning that those parts aren't even fragmented. This calc assumes complete fragmentation of both vehicles. Again, doesn't happen. I know this doesn't happen. I've played the games. Even with Killbane's jet I think that, even if you fragmented it all at once, it takes several shots to do, and I doubt Killbane took the entirety of this explosion even if he was inside the jet.
This isn't vaporizing someone. This is turning someone into a fine red mist. There's a difference. You can even see giblets of the people on the ground, which means this is not vaporization, but likely something more akin to pulverization, which makes more sense given that this isn't even a heat based weapon. Same with the Apoco-fist. Crazy how the apparently 9-A attack only dented a cop car.
It also brings up hellfire missiles, which I can't find a number on. The most I found says it's comparable to 4 kg of TNT, which is only .004 tons, which is still 9-B. 9-B+, granted, but still 9-B, ultimately. This should be the limit of the Boss/Saints and their weaponry.
Anyways, that's all I have. Also maybe you can make Oleg's tier 9-B+ while you're at it, or just say 9-B but upscaling to The Boss form an unknown amount. He's considerably stronger than the rest of the saints so the argument could be made that he scales to their strongest weaponry, but it's a tough sell imo. One might argue that the boss should scale anyways since they can take on brutes, but Brutes are literally capable of ragdolling the boss and consistently overpowering them, sometimes just by running into The Boss. I don't think it's fair to say that the scaling is 1-1.
So, overall, the changes I suggest are
A lot of weaponry for GTA 5 to Saints Row 3 is 9-A because it blow up cars, and then it links to, generally, this calc. Unfortunately, this calc is only made for complete fragmentation of the car. In most of these games, the car is not completely fragmented, but just greatly damaged to the point where it's usually a frame, or most of the body is still, generally, intact. Refer to this page to see what I'm talking about. All of these vehicles have been blown up or, generally, gone to the greatest level of disrepair in the game. These are not fully fragmentated vehicles.
At most, you argue these things fragmentate parts of cars, but not all of them. Some of these profiles even state as much, saying they're reduced to simply charred metal. My point is that this 9-A rating doesn't work. Even for Saints Row, which is generally weirder. You don't fully fragment cars you just kind of reduce them to a frame. Same with planes, and helicopters. Even moreso in these cases, because for the most part large parts of the vehicles are perfectly fine. To make my point clear, here's a screengrab from SR2 where the blown up cars are perfectly fine.
And before I move on from GTA, I just want to say that Trevor's durability shouldn't be 8-C either. Nothing in the game reaches that level, and you'd be lucky if it reaches 9-A at all. Maybe the blimp explosion does, but that's hardly caused solely by player weapons, but rather igniting gases inside of the blimp or something along those lines. Point is, nerf Trevor's durability.
Moving on to Saints Row, this also needs downgrade from 9-A. I'm just going to go through the justifications for the Boss' rating and we'll go from there.
This isn't full fragmentation. Hard to spot at times but the car's shell goes flying around. This is mainly blowing off tires, hoods, and other small parts of the vehicle, not fragmenting the whole thing together. Even then the pieces of the car stay together fairly well, meaning that those parts aren't even fragmented. This calc assumes complete fragmentation of both vehicles. Again, doesn't happen. I know this doesn't happen. I've played the games. Even with Killbane's jet I think that, even if you fragmented it all at once, it takes several shots to do, and I doubt Killbane took the entirety of this explosion even if he was inside the jet.
This isn't vaporizing someone. This is turning someone into a fine red mist. There's a difference. You can even see giblets of the people on the ground, which means this is not vaporization, but likely something more akin to pulverization, which makes more sense given that this isn't even a heat based weapon. Same with the Apoco-fist. Crazy how the apparently 9-A attack only dented a cop car.
It also brings up hellfire missiles, which I can't find a number on. The most I found says it's comparable to 4 kg of TNT, which is only .004 tons, which is still 9-B. 9-B+, granted, but still 9-B, ultimately. This should be the limit of the Boss/Saints and their weaponry.
Anyways, that's all I have. Also maybe you can make Oleg's tier 9-B+ while you're at it, or just say 9-B but upscaling to The Boss form an unknown amount. He's considerably stronger than the rest of the saints so the argument could be made that he scales to their strongest weaponry, but it's a tough sell imo. One might argue that the boss should scale anyways since they can take on brutes, but Brutes are literally capable of ragdolling the boss and consistently overpowering them, sometimes just by running into The Boss. I don't think it's fair to say that the scaling is 1-1.
So, overall, the changes I suggest are
- Remove 9-A tiering from all GTA profiles
- Remove Trevor's "8-C with ability" durability rating
- Remove the 9-A tiering from all the Saints Row profiles
- (Maybe) Make Oleg 9-B+, with the rest of the cast being simply 9-B in their SR3 keys. This doesn't touch SR4
