Grima Upgrade

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Throughout The Midmire, you can see the ribs of Grima, the ribs themselves are (in total) larger than mountains that you see in the game, shouldn't this warrant an upgrade via size?

This scales to Marth, Naga, Medeus, Seliph, Julia, Julius, Arvis, Chrom, Future Past Lucina, and Robin

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Border_Sands - Grima's Tail is on this map

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/The_Midmire - The Map of Grima's ribs

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Plegia_Castle - Grima's Skull

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Plegia_Castle_Courtyard - You can see part of the skull on this map

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Ylisse#Countries You can find the map of the continent here (scroll down just a bit from here)

From the looks of things, I'd say it looks to be Large Island level (At the very most) via size

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Bump, my Large Island level estimate might be wrong, the skeleton is pretty large on the map, so it might even be Country

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with country level Grima. City level seemed like too much of a downgrade from continent level IMO, but country level sounds most reasonable. I also agree that it scales to all those characters. Additionally, it seems consistent with other End Game bosses as well.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

It would also give a justification for Alm's current Country rating, as the FE wikia says that Naga and Duma once had a dispute, in which Naga won and exiled Duma to Valentia, while we currently have no justification for Duma being Country level, and according to the "dispute" on the FE Wikia (On Mila's page, this is absent from Duma's page for some reason), Duma would be somewhat comparable to Naga, or at least be "At least Country level" for being a god, while Naga isn't, and according to the page for the Falchion on the FE wikia, the Valentian Falchion is another one of Naga's fangs, all of this I mentioned on my recent Gaiden/Echoes revision about the current Country level stats for Alm and Celica

 

[Reppuzan]

Country level Grima from his body stretching across a continent seems plausible, but how would that translate for Falchion's AP?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Oh yes, I was just about to bring Duma and Mila up. I've also heard rumors about the Sheild of Seals containing a country sized pocket realm, but I don't know if that's true. But it does seal away all Earth Dragons except, Medeus, Loptyr, and Grima. But regardless, country level does seem like the most accurate option for all these characters.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Reppuzan

Well, Grima's durabilty should scale to his AP due to Newton's 3rd law. And Falchion's AP should also scale do to being the weapon designed to slay dragons such as Grima. Albiet there may still be the note saying it has country level only when used against dragons.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

It would scale to the Archanean Falchion because the A. Falchion is the weapon used to defeat Grima and Medeus, and is also created from Naga's fang, and the Valentian Falchion scales because it's also one of Naga's fangs (according to the FE wikia) and Naga had a dispute with Duma and had him exiled to Valentia (according to the FE wikia) and also according to the FE wikia, the V. Falchion was created in case Mila and Duma degenerated like Medeus, Loptyr, or Grima

and the Holy Weapons scale to Loptyr, who scales to Naga

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Bump

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

We find JSW in his natural habitat, he is currently bumping another FE thread

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Country or Continental level seems logical.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Continent level doesn't seem logical, he's never busted continents, and Country level seems to be logical via size

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Really? Odd.....very well then.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Dino

While he's long enough to stretch across the continent, he doesn't cover the continent, hence Country level over Continent level.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Ok.....that makes sense. Thank you.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I assume we all agree to the changes?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I certaintly approve.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I suppose we should make the changes, I'll do it tomorrow if nobody has any objections

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

It would scale to the Archanean Falchion because the A. Falchion is the weapon used to defeat Grima and Medeus, and is also created from Naga's fang, and the Valentian Falchion scales because it's also one of Naga's fangs (according to the FE wikia) and Naga had a dispute with Duma and had him exiled to Valentia (according to the FE wikia) and also according to the FE wikia, the V. Falchion was created in case Mila and Duma degenerated like Medeus, Loptyr, or Grima

and the Holy Weapons scale to Loptyr, who scales to Naga

See,I've actually played FE Gaiden so I can say with 100% certainty that you are full of it. 1.The Valentian Falchion is NOT one of Naga's fangs.It is heavily suggested that it was created by Duma who gave it to Rudlf to seal Mila.Naga isn't even MENTIONED in Gaiden. To everything else,here's a wild,crazy idea:How about you actually play the games instead of relying on literal fanfiction a wiki made up to boost ypur favorite verse?Or at least use the actually accurate fireemblemwiki.org. On the topic of Grima,so are we just ignoring literally every actual in game depiction of him that doesn't portray him nearly as large as you're suggesting?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@12cheeper

I played Fire Emblem Gaiden as well, haven't played the remake Ehcoes though. It's true that Naga isn't mentioned in Gaiden, but there's also no proof that Duma created the Falchion. And maybe the information about Naga disputing with Duma came from the guidebooks; I know that's generally secondary canon, but alot of old video games especially have that as their only in depth detail about the lore. And once again, I haven't played Echoes, but their could be information there about Valentian Falchion being one of Naga's fangs. Also, it's preferably not to argue which wikia is more accurate than the other, but I personally think it's a good idea to take a look at all sides.

And as for Grima's case, his size looks country level or at least Large Island level if you ask me. Plus he has shook Ylisse; roughly 1/3rd of a continent, so Country level is perfectly reasonable. More importantly, it's not very nice to assume that other people have not played the game or to be so quick to call someone biased towards their verse. I have no intention of coming out as rude myself, but that tone needs to be toned down a bit; Thank you.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

@12cheeper

I played Fire Emblem Gaiden as well, haven't played the remake Ehcoes though. It's true that Naga isn't mentioned in Gaiden, but there's also no proof that Duma created the Falchion. And maybe the information about Naga disputing with Duma came from the guidebooks; I know that's generally secondary canon, but alot of old video games especially have that as their only in depth detail about the lore. And once again, I haven't played Echoes, but their could be information there about Valentian Falchion being one of Naga's fangs. Also, it's preferably not to argue which wikia is more accurate than the other, but I personally think it's a good idea to take a look at all sides.

And as for Grima's case, his size looks country level or at least Large Island level if you ask me. Plus he has shook Ylisse; roughly 1/3rd of a continent, so Country level is perfectly reasonable. More importantly, it's not very nice to assume that other people have not played the game or to be so quick to call someone biased towards their verse. I have no intention of coming out as rude myself, but that tone needs to be toned down a bit; Thank you.

No,it doesn't come from guidebooks.The statement is completely unsourced.In fact,I can prove that it's bollocks. https://kantopia.wordpress.com/2017/03/16/shouzou-kaga-making-of-fire-emblem-gaiden-from-ape-guide/ Q: What is the story connection, if any, to the previous game?

A: The only clues are the three Pegasus sisters and Zeke. Let's just say these events take place after the previous game. (Laughs). Notice how he doesn't once mention Naga. The FE wikia as a whole is completely unreliable.It's about as legit as the Zelda wikia and at least that site doesn't pull things out of thin air.Use fireemblemwiki.org if you're gonna use any wiki.

In regards to Grima,he didn't "shake Ylisse".He shook Ylisstol,the capital city.There is absolutely no evidence he shook the entire nation.That is wank and you know it. Literally nothing except generic shadow on the map supports Grima being this big,not even prerendered cutscenes.Unless you also want to argue that Plegia castle is the size of a small nation. Me saying that he obviously hasn't played the game was me giving him the benefit of the doubt because he cited an unreliable wikia over the actual game or even any reliable direct source.Either that or he's being intentionally misleading to force the series to recieve gains.Which is the more pleasant conclusion to draw?

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

@12cheeper, this came from the FE wikia, not me, I played Gaiden too (and if anything Duma should be stronger than Naga anyway, as he's actually a god), and the only instance of Grima being smaller than this is when he's first resurrected and when the party fights on top of him, and how about you present actual evidence as to how I'm somehow "biased" towards FE, when may I remind you that I'm the one who downgraded FE6 from having the ridiculous base form of High 6-A? And I have to rely on the FE wikia because of how much story ISNT EVEN IN GAIDEN! You can summarize Gaiden in a paragraph at most! You kinda have to rely on people who act like they know what they're talking about when there's hardly any information to begin with, and it's not like I just have full access to guidebooks, manuals, and WoG statements about a game that never made it overseas to begin with, so EXCUUUUSE ME that I can't be knowledgeable on a game's lore when THERE'S BARELY ANY TO BEGIN WITH

Let's just ignore the FE wikia's statements on Gaiden, Duma would be above Naga by virtue of being a god, just as a legendary pokemon is above tyranitar at the very least

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

You know,I'd have a bit more sympathy if it wasn't for the fact that you have other perfectly respectable sources available to you.It'd be like using the Zelda Encyclopedia over Zeldawiki.com.Even then that's no reason to throw a tantrum.I didn't personally insult you or anything. Also,do I need to bring up the cutscene before chapter 23 where he's only about the size of a city despite being around for presumably years?

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

You know, I'd say my scaling is off, if it wasn't for the fact that Duma should be above Naga at least by the virtue of being a god, also, FE2 DID happen after FE1, Zeke (Camus) has lost his memories, if anything it's either after FE1 or after FE3, and why would Camus mention Naga after losing his memories, and why would the Pegasus sisters mention Naga on a continent where Naga isn't even worshiped?

Also, there's only like, 2 instances of Grima being smaller, despite every location in which you visit a part of his skeleton says otherwise, or are you going to argue that Plegia just made a giant fake skeleton for fun?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Cheeper and JSW

Let's simmer down. There's no need to attack each other over this.

Cheeper, if you want to rebut points that's fine, but that sort of tone you're making isn't acceptable. I've warned you about this before. Be civil.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I agree with this.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Upgrades were made, and there's more instances of Grima being bigger, and all that should be ignored is what FE wikia said about Gaiden, the actual maps should still be acceptable, which is what upgraded them in the first place