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Granblue Fantasy new NEP updates

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a quick CRT to update NEP for Granblue fantasy as always
Black Background = Read from bottom to top

Firstly Primal beast.

Their Soul/Mind and Physical Body and even their Fate are all granted by Astral Power or also Known as the Power of Origination. This makes up their Physical Core.

Once the Astral Power and their Core is stripped off from them, all that remains are their abstract concept without any form of soul or mind. this Essentially kills them.
And a statement from Zeyen who is a Sage who holds vast knowledge about Primal Beasts says that Primal Beasts are Materialized concepts. in a sense, Concepts are given material form.
Furthermore, it is stated that it was Astral Power that shape their consciousness, personality, emotions, and soul as those are built by the Astrals in their core as a form of Algorithm or sometimes merely a Byproduct of their overall creation.

The Core also contains all the primal beast memories, emotions, and thoughts even their soul wherein destroying it will scatter it thus they cannot recover their form again after de-manifesting without Astral intervention.

as such the suggested changes would be on the primal beast Physiology Page would be
Nonexistence Physiology(Nature Type 1; Aspect Type 1 and 3; Primal beast in their true form are mythos, circumstances, faith, belief, and abstract without any form, Mind or Soul but is powerless in this State due to no longer possessing Astral power that allows those to exist)
I also wanna update Primal beast's Stamina to further reflect their stamina as shown that they can fight at their maximum output on the battlefield for 10 Straight years without rest.
Extremely High, possibly infinite (Can fight at their strongest for 10 whole years without rest, possibly limitless while dormant as they can grant their powers and fulfill their roles but limited while in their sleep state for eternity)

EDIT : I forgot to add another important factor that makes Sky-essence different from merely AE 1

Sky-essence is the essence that take the form of these concepts or abstracts.
Said Concept and abstract range even to the concept of nothingness or the concept of void.
We have one primal beast Avatar who specifically has this power. which Beelzebub referred to as the power of the void after he absorbed his essence and shade after his core was split in half and was destroyed by Bahamut's power.
This shade or essence is the concept of void itself because after a core is destroyed the concept and astral powers inside it will scatter and return to the sky.
and as stated Sky-essence is the form before it takes form as Abstract, conception, mythos, faith, etc thus I believe its nonexistence even above abstraction and concept itself


Alright now for the Big One
Specifically Beelzebub in his Chaos Body form


Beelzebub is Originally a Primarch and Astral Chimera. Until he came across Chaos which is a complete opposite and exists beyond Creation and Destruction and Rebirth State of Existence in Sky-realm and Astral Realm.
Creation and Destruction are the fundamental concepts that create everything in the Verse. Often referred to as Sky-Realm's Core and Astral Power. It is neither zero nor one nor nothing or something. Astral Power holds no sway over it and it is incompatible or even weakens Astral Powers if not outright counters it unlike Sky-realm's Core or Sky Essence which are the state of nonexistence after it was destroyed or reduced to nothing by Destruction which is the 0 that Astral can turn to 1. thus I believe they are Nature Type 2

furthermore due to this nature of nonexistence they cannot normally interact with anyone in Sky-realm, unless they are Summoned or called upon with strong emotion or desire, a Gate or Transworld portal that links the otherworld is opened,

Chaos is often used interchangeably as Otherworldly power as Chaos originated from Otherworldly creatures who possess those properties that create chaos. it was even stated that Chaos and its material form that Beelzebub manage to procure are created from the thoughts of otherworldly being congealed into a crystal coating Beelzebub's spear. but the properties of chaos are also present within Otherworldly beings. it is the power to overturn Providence that holds sway over everything that the Omnipotent has Created capable of eroding it and returning it into a form of nonexistent that is different from the nothingness that the destruction half of Omnipotent has created
Otherworldly beings do not possess any form of the soul as they are already dead or do not exist as otherworldly beings are merely taking the form of the memories and data of those who perished and moved on to the afterlife and tries to capture those who border between life and death. thus they lack soul
Aside from that. They do not contain any form of information to make up their reality that ellis even with Hyperdimensional perception cannot see any information about them and they do not function on any preexisting framework of reality thus they lack information furthermore Ellis hyperdimensional perception is being able to perceive T axis which is the time dimension seeing how he also wasn't able to see any form of history or time from the target they are most likely nonexistent in history or do not possess any form of Spatial or Temporal properties

EDIT:
Furthermore. Wardant, a being who claimed to be the one who brought chaos to Crimson Horizon, cannot be analyzed by Kenji, and any attempt to do so not only invaded Kenji but also almost killed him and his Circuit despite it being unaffected even if the space it occupies is interfered with physically.
Furthermore in Spaghetti Syndrome, The Scalpel which Grace used to repeatedly cut off Otherworldly flesh started coating it with chaos similar to Beelzebub's Spear. and Isaac further added that this chaos even against beings who runs under information and data
They also do not have any form of mind in their purest form but because they are mostly utilized by entities with consciousness unless created as a tool like Otherworldly river who needs someone to utilize its ability else it will only freely rampage. Otherworldly beings who possess a mind of their own possess a core to make it up similar to primal beast. but unlike primal beast, they are unnecessary for them to exist and fight. and for them to completely kill it Lyria needed to summon Bahamut.
therefore as suggested Beelzebub who has been erased by Shalem's Destruction but survived by having his last remains clinging to chaos and reforming his existence with chaos should gain
Nonexistence Physiology (Nature Type 2; Aspect Type 1, 4, and 5; Reconstructed his own being made of Chaos matter which can manifest as a material form of nothingness capable of eroding anything that exists or doesn't exist back to chaos. chaos exists as a nothingness that doesn't exist in any pre-existing framework of existence and is completely opposite to providence lacking any form of soul or mind, it exists beyond the concept of Creation, and Destruction & Rebirth of The Omnipotent and lacks any information that makes up what it is in reality)
Since I'm Also Making a profile for Otherworldly River it would have the same Nonexistence physiology as Beelzebub but without a mental aspect too because it lacks a mind and is merely a weapon or tool for corrupting timelines and absorbing the life force
 
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Ok, I'll go for the primal beasts first, If I have time or desire I will go though Beelzebub. ....
they cannot interact with reality anymore
Scans?
Once the Astral Power is stripped off from them or excised all that remains are their abstract or concept without any form of soul or mind
This is just AE
as they have truly become nothing
It contains their concept and simply destroying it will free that concept but also free the astral powers thus they do not really die but simply return to their nonexistent form which is only a Concept/Abstract/Mythos/Faith.
Where is it said that they became Nothing or do they return to a nonexistent form? It is never said they return to some kind of nonexistent form or nothing at all, it is clearly stated that they return to a form that are abstracts or concepts (Which is AE)

Therefore i disagree with NEP Nature 1
 
Ok, I'll go for the primal beasts first, If I have time or desire I will go though Beelzebub. ....

Scans?

This is just AE


Where is it said that they became Nothing or do they return to a nonexistent form? It is never said they return to some kind of nonexistent form or nothing at all, it is clearly stated that they return to a form that are abstracts or concepts (Which is AE)

Therefore i disagree with NEP Nature 1
They are already AE even with Astral Power. Because all their manifested forms are just avatar of themselves.

They return to the realm of belief or a Sky's essence ready to be used by Astral God to give form again to harvest it. If you believe AE mean you're already mindless and souless despite being a concept that still function as Sky's essence freely taking form as myth etc then sure i guess but when this was originally discussed with DonttalkTD he already agreed with it except with beelzebub's conceptless

Primal beast are built upon the power of each half of Omnipotent. One is off destruction and rebirth while the other is Creation.

Destruction and rebirth is considered 0 and creation is 1 in this verse.

Returning to Sky essence makes them nonexistent but they still exist as a sky realms core or sky essence. Which is just. Fragment of Sky God's power
 
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Remaining as a concept or abstract being still AE and as I said previously, nowhere does it say that they remain as nothing or nonexistent... that just seems to be an addition of yours to change the context as it is not specified in the scans.
 
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Contradiction yes. but concepts and abstraction in Granblue Fantasy go in ranges one can even be the concept of nothingness or void. restricting said concept to merely an AE despite its powers being shown to showcase properties that are no longer just a mere abstract existence.
literally one of the story arcs is them returning Akasha into its pre-primal state so people could no longer use its power to tamper with history because of being the concept of history. reverting them to merely a sky essence which returned to the Sky.

For Ares who also reverted to Pre-Primal State supposedly perished and returned to Sky-essence similar to what happened to Akasha but her concept remained in Otherworld instead of moving to the afterlife along with her memories and Katalina managed to achieve innermost teaching with her to return her powers back so she can create a copy of Sky map fragment before finally passing on.

also going back to Origination as mentioned by Loki.
Primal Beast are created using this said Power and creating Sky-realm's Core form. and as stated Before Sky's essence exist deeper than abstracts because they are what shapes abstracts and conceptions

Again this is merely to explain their physiology after they have returned to a Sky's essence as at this form they are basically good as dead in a literal sense but primal beast conceptualized life and death differently but they still exist in a form of Sky's essence which as stated to be able to take form as abstraction etc.
 
I disagree with nature type 2
I dont see the binary 0 or concept of nothingness

Reduce a concept to nothing is not make the concept get nothingness it self to govern

I mean you must give a very clear proof for claim it is a concept of nothingness
 
I disagree with nature type 2
I dont see the binary 0 or concept of nothingness

Reduce a concept to nothing is not make the concept get nothingness it self to govern

I mean you must give a very clear proof for claim it is a concept of nothingness
Astral power of origination or the Astral Gods Creation is 1 while the destruction half of the Sky God is 0

it is an important world-building factor that they introduced at the very beginning of the game and was expanded upon with the introduction of Six Dragons. and the fact that because Sky-God has no power of creation he has to destroy things to regenerate them into something else entirely instead of creating a new one a perpetual cycle called destruction and regeneration
and has been one of the crucial and important factors in how people who are immortals are able to pass away into the afterlife

literally by saying you don't see the binary of 0 is saying the concept of destruction, death or end of all doesn't exist in Sky-realm but that simply isn't true and the lack of the concept of afterlife and death in Astral Realm is proof that because Astral God has no power over the destruction he cannot even destroy his creation.
And again as further confirmation,
the otherworld or chaos is a distinct concept from Death of anything. Its a power not held even by the Gods or Omnipotent despite being the one that created everything and treating the entire reality of Crimson Horizon, Sky-Realm and Astral Realm as a canvass. and yes he also created Crimson Horizon as it is the Original world.
the specific details are unknown why but if you know the lore of the game and piece it together you can already understand that from the beginning the original concept of life and death of things has been discarded and was then replaced by the Creation and Destruction halves of the Omnipotent. although they are similar concepts. one no longer exists but yet persisted to exist which is currently assumed as the otherworld where even though entities who truly perish and die do not go to the otherworld but instead to the afterlife. the otherworld still receives the memories the information and everything about the person who perished. another example.

not to mention the Omnipotent before his Split completely removed the original wedge that governs destruction to replace it with his own yet this wedge still exists.

do I also have to bring up how Chaos or Otherworld Energy is called the Power not even the Gods possess despite everything in creation being a duality of their own concepts and power? and that the war to have these 2 halves of creation fighting against each other is how they harvest each other's energy to return back as a whole again
 
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Astral power of origination or the Astral Gods Creation is 1 while the destruction half of the Sky God is 0

it is an important world-building factor that they introduced at the very beginning of the game and was expanded upon with the introduction of Six Dragons. and the fact that because Sky-God has no power of creation he has to destroy things to regenerate them into something else entirely instead of creating a new one a perpetual cycle called destruction and regeneration
and has been one of the crucial and important factors in how people who are immortals are able to pass away into the afterlife

literally by saying you don't see the binary of 0 is saying the concept of destruction, death or end of all doesn't exist in Sky-realm but that simply isn't true and the lack of the concept of afterlife and death in Astral Realm is proof that because Astral God has no power over the destruction he cannot even destroy his creation.
And again as further confirmation,
the otherworld or chaos is a distinct concept from Death of anything. Its a power not held even by the Gods or Omnipotent despite being the one that created everything and treating the entire reality of Crimson Horizon, Sky-Realm and Astral Realm as a canvass. and yes he also created Crimson Horizon as it is the Original world.
the specific details are unknown why but if you know the lore of the game and piece it together you can already understand that from the beginning the original concept of life and death of things has been discarded and was then replaced by the Creation and Destruction halves of the Omnipotent. although they are similar concepts. one no longer exists but yet persisted to exist which is currently assumed as the otherworld where even though entities who truly perish and die do not go to the otherworld but instead to the afterlife. the otherworld still receives the memories the information and everything about the person who perished. another example.

not to mention the Omnipotent before his Split completely removed the original wedge that governs destruction to replace it with his own yet this wedge still exists.

do I also have to bring up how Chaos or Otherworld Energy is called the Power not even the Gods possess despite everything in creation being a duality of their own concepts and power? and that the war to have these 2 halves of creation fighting against each other is how they harvest each other's energy to return back as a whole again
Firstly, just proof the "concept of nothingness"

Sky god, astral realm, sky realm core, or whetever it is. Like you says it is just "nothingness", not "concept of nothingness"

Even if the astral power is a concept, the nature of the concept and the nothingness will separated. Unless you can proof if the nothingness is govern(or rather shaped by) by the astral power, not the astral power it self is nothingness, it will gonna make the astral power is concept of nothingness

The concept is not "the thing" it shaped
And astral power is just "the thing" which shaped by concept
 
Firstly, just proof the "concept of nothingness"
The concept of nothingness is Avatar himself as the concept of Void and holds power over the Void. and Astral Power is what gave him that power. Concept, abstract etc when given astral power can freely manipulate or control said concept that defines reality. Beelzebub here is an Astral which are the ones who creates Primal Beast
Even if the astral power is a concept, the nature of the concept and the nothingness will separated. Unless you can proof if the nothingness is govern(or rather shaped by) by the astral power, not the astral power it self is nothingness, it will gonna make the astral power is concept of nothingness
i do not understand what you're trying to say here

i never argued astral power itself is nothingness but rather the Sky's essence of Sky-realm's core which is what Astral Power gives form to and power to freely control it. Astral literally cannot be nothingness and to form primal beast it needed an essence of Sky God which is destruction or nothingness. and at the same time the Essence of Sky God or its destruction can then erase and that Astral Power. Since I know you're a supporter of Maou Gakuin. take it like Order and Chaos
The concept is not "the thing" it shaped
And astral power is just "the thing" which shaped by concept
Astral power is literally the Power of the Astral God
 
The concept of nothingness is Avatar himself as the concept of Void and holds power over the Void. and Astral Power is what gave him that power. Concept, abstract etc when given astral power can freely manipulate or control said concept that defines reality. Beelzebub here is an Astral
Proof it if the avatar is the concept of nothingness, because i dont see anything about that.
i do not understand what you're trying to say here
I mean you must give proof, if the concept is litteraly shaped the nothingness it self
i never argued astral power itself is nothingness but rather the Sky's essence of Sky-realm's core which is what Astral Power gives form to and power to freely control it. Astral literally cannot be nothingness and to form primal beast it needed an essence of Sky God which is destruction or nothingness. and at the same time the Essence of Sky God or its destruction can then erase and that Astral Power. Since I know you're a supporter of Maou Gakuin. take it like Order and Chaos
I think astral power is same like sky god
Astral power of origination or the Astral Gods Creation is 1 while the destruction half of the Sky God is 0
So astral power is from sky god and sky god is nothingness. Like i says
Just nothingness not concept of nothingness

Yea i know maou gakuin, i know you in here wanna says sky god and sky realm essense or creation and destruction is a duality (0 and 1). But i think you make a mistake if you only use that for get NEP nature type 2

Because you should lack of them conceptualy. Not only the thing but the concept of the thing

Yea that's why name of NEP 2 is IDEALISTIC nonexistance. Because NEP 2 is nonexist even in idea/concept of nonexistance
Astral power is literally the Power of the Astral
Yea but not the concept of nonexistance
 
Late reply cause i was away for a while but here goes

Proof it if the avatar is the concept of nothingness, because i dont see anything about that.
Beelzebub talking about Avatar and referring his power as the power of the void. A Primal Beast's power is born from their concept and lores because that is how Astral Power manufactured them
All Primal beasts possess cores and these cores possess an element. Avatar's core element is Darkness or the color Black. Because him being the concept of void or nothingness he basically does not perish after being destroyed 3x. Lyria has to use Bahamut's power to erase his core and even then his power of the void remained the Beelzebub Absorbed it.

I mean you must give proof, if the concept is litteraly shaped the nothingness it self
Read from bottom to top. What remains After is their Essence as a Pre-Primal and these Essence can take form as many things Concept abstract myth etc
I think astral power is same like sky god
that's what you think not what the game thinks. They are completely 2 different distinct things else the Sky God could have just ascended back to being The Omnipotent by Absorbing The world that The Omnipotent has created. Yet he hasn't and this World has undergone destruction and regeneration just to keep evolving to battle the perfected state of Astrals from the Astral World
So astral power is from sky god and sky god is nothingness. Like i says
Just nothingness not concept of nothingness
Astral Power is from Astral God. the 2nd half of the Omnipotent which is the Creation.
Sky God is Sky's essence and is what handles the end and destruction of all things. The Omnipotent even created a Speaker Shalem and imparted her with the same power of destruction to Expunge outliers and erase them completely capable of fighting Against Otherworld itself
Yea i know maou gakuin, i know you in here wanna says sky god and sky realm essense or creation and destruction is a duality (0 and 1). But i think you make a mistake if you only use that for get NEP nature type 2

Because you should lack of them conceptualy. Not only the thing but the concept of the thing

Yea that's why name of NEP 2 is IDEALISTIC nonexistance. Because NEP 2 is nonexist even in idea/concept of nonexistance
I did not argue sky god and sky realm essence as destruction and creation. Sky's Essence is Sky God's power which is the nothingness that he can regenerate to create things because he does not possess the power of creation powers of the Omnipotent and Astral God hence he has to harvest it by Destroying or erasing Astral God's Creation.

You can be NEP nature 2 now without being conceptless since conceptless is an aspect now not nature and they simply lack the concept of Existence and nonexistence which is a duality

Again.
Sky God's power = Sky's Essence = Power of destruction and rebirth capable of completely erasing things to no longer have any kind of form and use that nonexistence to reincarnate into a better version of the one that perished
Astral God's Power = Astral Power = Power of Creation and Immortality. Capable of creating things from complete nothing but cannot erase the existence
Astral Power is what makes up one's Mind consciousness personality Soul and physical form etc possibly even a concept or aspect of reality which The Omnipotent created and called as wedges. once they have been destroyed or harvested by the Sky God. even if Astral is to recreate its concept back to a primal beast it will become a completely new primal beast. the concepts do not simply disappear even if you kill it
Yea but not the concept of nonexistance
I never said they are because they are the one that imparts the power to manipulate Concepts that defines reality not create them.
The Omnipotent is the one that created the Concepts by creating the wedges that define those concepts to allow things to exist it is unknown whether it is because of Power of Creation or a combination of both Destruction and Creation because some of his perfect creation likes properties similar to the original like The Speakers
 
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Agree. Basically, primal beast is concept, myth, etc. Avatar is primal beast void and chaos will destroy concept of void because concept of void is also god's creation. Yes, chaos is non-existent beyond concept of void. So, I believe it should be NEP nature type 2
 
added the edit which discuss about how the abstraction and conception ranges even to the concept of void or nothingness.
since Sky-essence is basically what exist deeper than concept and abstraction then they should exist deeper than even the concept of the void which is why I believe they are nep aspect 1 if paired with other scans like Loki referring origination as turning 0 to 1 and nothing to something
 
I think again, i can agree with chaos being NEP 2, but if chaos it self is have properties of nothingness, i mean NEP 2 is nothingness beyond nothingness

If not then i think it just possibly TD 1 (beyond existance and nonexistance)
 
I think NEP type 1 on Primal Beast could just be attributed as Verse mechanic to kill primla beast and not an actual ability/nature of primal beast

Especially since a new ability is added which is fissionism and their Sky essence being separated from soul/Body/mind would better explain it in a way on how Primal Beast pass away yet their Sky-essence/concept/abstract still exist just without consciousness or physical form to bind them to existence in Sky-realm
With the exception of Avatar for his own specific feat of still surviving and existing with a destructive impulse/concept of void even after being erased by Bahamut

Even if Primal Beast do not get nep type 1 for their true form as sky essence.
Chaos definitely still NEP type 2 for various reasons and statement

so yeah only pushing NEP type 2 now which is chaos and NEP type 1 only for Avatar
 
I think NEP type 1 on Primal Beast could just be attributed as Verse mechanic to kill primla beast and not an actual ability/nature of primal beast

Especially since a new ability is added which is fissionism and their Sky essence being separated from soul/Body/mind would better explain it in a way on how Primal Beast pass away yet their Sky-essence/concept/abstract still exist just without consciousness or physical form to bind them to existence in Sky-realm
With the exception of Avatar for his own specific feat of still surviving and existing with a destructive impulse/concept of void even after being erased by Bahamut

Even if Primal Beast do not get nep type 1 for their true form as sky essence.
Chaos definitely still NEP type 2 for various reasons and statement

so yeah only pushing NEP type 2 now which is chaos and NEP type 1 only for Avatar
Make sense
 
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