Goomba revisions

[DonkeyKongApe]

Hello. I just want to address some problems I think the Goomba page has and some additions I think it needs.

1. ******** Physical Characteristics should be changed to Superhuman Physical Characteristics as their only ******** aspects (as of now) are their speed and lifting strength.

2. They have a few notable attacks and techniques missing

Thorn Shot: In Super Mario RPG, Goombas can shoot thorns at their opponents. (Source)

Headbonk: In many Mario RPG games, they can use the Headbonk (called Rocket Headbutt in Bowser's Minions) in which they jump in to the air and headbutt their opponent from above.

Ram (Not sure if this is worth being put in the section but I'll include it here just in case and since it's their most common attack): Goombas run full speed and ram in to their allies

Cranium Crush (As a Paragoomba): The ParaGoomba flies above their opponent's head, spins once, and slams downward to attack their foe

3. The Thorn Shot should give them better range. When using the move they should have at least a few meters of range.

4. Goombas can not slip on ice so I think they should be given a specific resistance to ice manipulation, maybe phrased on the page as something close to "Resistance to slipping on ice"

5. Goombas should be given Superhuman lifting strength. One Goomba can support the weight of many other Goombas stacked on top of them and move perfectly fine in Super Mario Odyssey. (Source)

6. Goombas can use Super Bells to become Cat Goombas and Super Leaves to become Tail Goombas. Tail Goombas can glide (Which gives them another form of flight, albeit much worse) and swing their tails to attack, while Cat Goombas can jump up and pounce at their enemies at high speeds. I have little to no idea what to do with those last two techniques, maybe a very weak version of martial arts? I could use some further input here.

7. Their durability should be changed from Likely Wall level to Wall level. Being killed by people many times stronger than them shouldn't make their Durability unequal to their Attack Potency. Furthermore, Goombas survived the explosion of the Koopa Cruiser and the resulting fall many meters down to the ground, with one Goomba (Captain Goomba) being launched in to a separate area from where the explosion of the Koopa Cruiser occurred above and in to an underground cave.

8. Goombas are described as fast in an in-game descriptio, can keep up in combat with other enemies such as Koopas in Bowser's Minions (We currently list Koopas as having Superhuman speed so Goombas should at least scale in reactions and combat speed), and Goombas are implied to have gone through special training to execute the Special Attack Goomba Storm where they must rush to their master's aid at high speeds. Considering all of this, I think Goombas should have Superhuman speed, or at least Peak human speed or Athletic human speed with Superhuman reactions, whichever one fits the best.

9. Goombas could go through the whole intense journey of Minion Quest in Bowser's minions with little to no rest, so they should definitely have above average or high stamina.

10. I think Goombas should be given average intelligence but noted to be absent minded at times. They can adapt to new forms (Cat Goomba and Tail Goomba), they possess combat knowledge and can fight against many different opponents (Bowser's Minions), they can form strategies and know what attacks/techniques/Captain Commands to use in battle at the correct times, and as noted earlier they have received training from Bowser before.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I think Goombas should range in power. While it is evident that most Goombas are canonically fodder, Hyper Goombas can pose as a serious threat to Mario, Captain Goomba is capable of defeating all of the Koopalings when accompanied by beings of a similar level of power, and the Goombas who disguise as Bowser are actually capable of taking on that form by themselves. I agree with everything in the OP except for maybe stuff about the Paragoomba, as that is Bowser using his magic to give him wings, which he can do with everyone.

 

[Withersoul_235]

All looks good to me.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Peak or Athletic Human Speed is fine. I'm still don't think it's superhuman. Thorn Shot should be the only notable attack worth mention as all the others are just simple tackles with the exception of the Headbonk but that's exclusive to Goombario and Goombella.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Don't other Goombas in Paper Mario use the Headbonk?

 

[DonkeyKongApe]

Thorn Shot should be the only notable attack worth mention as all the others are just simple tackles with the exception of the Headbonk but that's exclusive to Goombario and Goombella.

Goombario and Goombella use that technique, but they're not the only ones who can do so. Normal Goombas ca perform the Headbonk too.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Ok then.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

IIRC, someone made a 8-B calc mentioned on another thread, but that needs to be moved to blog format evaluated. Goombario and Goombella are much stronger than fodder Goombas, so them in particular could scale to Rawk Hawk and Goomboss among other enemies. But yeah, Goombas in Paper Mario regularly do use Headbonk. Also positive Paragoomba have superhuman flight speed at bare minimum since they can fly just as fast as various real life birds. Much of them are Subsonic iirc.

 

[GyroNutz]

Goombas can turn into Tanoombas with the tanooki leaf, giving them limited flight and shapeshifting

 

[DonkeyKongApe]

Goombas can turn into Tanoombas with the tanooki leaf, giving them limited flight and shapeshifting

Tanoombas are separate from Tail Goombas. Tail Goombas are the forms of Goombas when they use a Super Leaf, and Tanoombas are just a subspecies of Goombas that are based on the powers of the Super Leaf. Only Tanoombas can shapeshift, and Tail Goombas can't.

 

[GyroNutz]

They're heavily suggested to be one and the same

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Rats and Mice are different species albeit very similar; as are Goombas and Tanoombas.

 

[GyroNutz]

Labradors and Pitbulls are different but they're both the same species. Here, it's a Goomba with tanooki features. It's heavily implied in both name and appearance to be part of the Goomba species

 

[DonkeyKongApe]

They're heavily suggested to be one and the same

Just because they're similar in concept doesn't mean they're the same. Tanoombas have a different design, a different name, and different abilities. The only thing suggesting they're the same is that they're both Goombas with Tanooki tails.

Heck, in Minion Quest, we even see Big Tail Goombas (the giant variant of Tail Goombas that debuted with them in 3D Land) ALONGSIDE Tanoombas. Clearly, they're not the same.

 

[GyroNutz]

"The only thing suggesting they're the same is that they're both Goombas with Tanooki tails."

You said it yourself. They're both Goombas.

 

[GyroNutz]

Also, tanking the explosion of the Koopa Cruiser and the following fall sounds like more than wall level

 

[DonkeyKongApe]

"The only thing suggesting they're the same is that they're both Goombas with Tanooki tails."
You said it yourself. They're both Goombas.

I could have worded it better. Tanoombas are a subspecies of Goombas while Tail Goombas are a transformation of Goombas. A better way to put it would be that the only thing they share is a relation to Goombas and a Tanooki Tail. I just showed you hard evidence that Tanoombas and Tail Goombas are different. If Tail Goombas and Tanoombas were intended to be the same, Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions would have either normal sized Tail Goombas to replace the Tanoombas or Big Tanoombas to replace the Big Tail Goombas. Tail Goombas and Tanoombas being on the same screen together shows they're not the same.

 

[DonkeyKongApe]

Also, tanking the explosion of the Koopa Cruiser and the following fall sounds like more than wall level

Probably. It could be consistent with them surviving the explosion of Bowser's Castle.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I think Goombas should range in power. While it is evident that most Goombas are canonically fodder, Hyper Goombas can pose as a serious threat to Mario, Captain Goomba is capable of defeating all of the Koopalings when accompanied by beings of a similar level of power, and the Goombas who disguise as Bowser are actually capable of taking on that form by themselves. I agree with everything in the OP except for maybe stuff about the Paragoomba, as that is Bowser using his magic to give him wings, which he can do with everyone.

 

[Antvasima]

Dino Ranger Black is our main Mario expert. I personally think that most of the suggested changes seem fine, but it is up to him to clarify whether or not he accepts this.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

The Wall level stats seems more suited for the Goomba species. For speed, Peak Human or Athletic Human is fine but no Superhuman speed or reaction. Ask for notable attacks, we can included Thorn Shot and Headbonk. However, the rest of his stats remian the same, including intellgence. According to Super Mario 3D Land, they were only able to turn into utilizes the Super Leaves because of Bowser.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I think that can be applied then.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

I will include it then.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Already done.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Is there anything left to do here, or should we close this thread?

 

[DonkeyKongApe]

I think it should be alright to close it. I've said all I've wanted to say.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.