Goku vs Black.

[Omegas03]

Base Goku (post-1st UIS) vs. Base Goku Black (After replicating Goku's style). Both 3-A



Do you think Goku after a lot of boosts surpassed Black's outstanding power when both on base form? If Black stomps I can change this to SSJ Goku.

 

[Omegas03]

bump

 

[GarrixianXD]

Kakarot should take this

 

[Iisdude1]

Goku shouldn't be too much stronger, since black can slightly keep up with blue Vegeta at the time even though he was likely toying around with him. Black will likely just adapt to be stronger than Goku and finish him off like in the Black arc.

 

[Akreious]

Wouldn't black just lolzenkai again? Because that's pretty much his entire gig.

 

[Omegas03]

What about SSJ or 2 Goku against Black?

 

[Iisdude1]

Ssj3's stamina drain might make Goku a little more serious to finish off black.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Post-UIS1 SSB Goku was capable of going up against SS Kefla, even while heavily exhausted, when her energy was stated to be akin to the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb. The Spirit Bomb logically scales above KKX20 Goku Blue, due to Goku resorting to it and its power being the trigger for UIS1.

Overall, Goku is in the range of upwards to 20x stronger after UIS1.

Vegeta Blue surpassed Black Rose (after replicating Goku's style) and there are several indications that Goku consider himself as strong, or stronger, than Vegeta Blue prior to UIS, and supposedly a magazine scan that claims Goku and Frieza are tied for strongest of Universe 7, with Vegeta at number 2.

Overall, Goku Blue should be as strong as Vegeta Blue (who overpowered SS Rose) at the start of the ToP, and grew much stronger after UIS1 (due to briefly pressuring SS Kefla, even while heavily weakened, who was akin to the Spirit Bomb).

Base Goku should be stronger than Base Black, even before UIS1 increased his abilities.

 

[Iisdude1]

Goku's base is still a couple of transformations behind black since he went up against ssb Vegeta, though He probably surpassed his base post UIS. Black also grew way stronger after being defeated by Vegeta. Even if goku's base is a lot stronger than black he's going to have to try really hard to overcome Black's reactive evolution.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Vegeta Blue surpassed Black Rose, and we have no reason to think Blue and Rose differ in multiplier.

Black Rose, after being defeated by Vegeta, displayed zero scaling and has no statements backing the claim that Goku would need Super Saiyan Pre-UIS. He 'grew stronger' but nothing shows how much stronger he was.

Goku, by the time of the ToP, was shown to be at least comparable to Vegeta in statements and magazine scans, as well as him fighting on the same level as Vegeta throughout the ToP. The scaling is:

Goku Blue (ToP) >/= Vegeta Blue (ToP) ~ Black Rose (Anger) > Vegeta Blue (Black arc) >> Black Rose

So the claim that Post-Vegeta Black was so much stronger has little basis, to my knowledge. It's pretty likely that ToP Base Goku and Base Black are at least comparable in strength, and Post-UIS Base Goku would definitely surpass him.

 

[Iisdude1]

Black forging this gigantic scythe that creates slices in space time , and him staying that he wanted Goku and Vegeta angrier after finishing off his friends so he could grow even more powerful. It also states it on his attack potency.

 

[Iisdude1]

Though I doubt he got massively stronger than them he's at least comparable to them, which is what you were trying to say?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

As I say, Black did grow stronger but nothing indicates he grew that much stronger than Vegeta which means Base Vegeta and Base Black should be considered comparable in power overall.

Goku, by the ToP, indicates he is as strong or stronger than Vegeta. So Pre-UIS Base Goku should be comparable to Base Black.

 

[Iisdude1]

so goku's base got strong enough to be on blue level in such a short amount of time?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Vegeta did that with the time chamber in the Black arc alone, and Goku somehow caught up between the Black arc and ToP, considering Vegeta trained six months in the Time Chamber before the ToP and wasn't depicted as much more powerful than Goku.

ToP Vegeta should, logically, be much stronger than he was in the Black arc, and Goku is comparable to him.

 

[Iisdude1]

they are both stronger than black as super saiyan blue, but not in their base forms because blacks base is super saiyan god tier at least for again keeping up with super saiyan blue.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

The only evidence that Super Saiyan Rose is akin to Super Saiyan is a singular magazine preview, which has a tendency of being inaccurate in the first place.

Can you show me any evidence that Black's base form and Rose are any different from Goku's base form and Blue?

 

[Iisdude1]

I thought that it was his version of blue only in the manga? Vegeta was wailing on him and Black was treating it like a joke, ot was also to show that he had got stronger from replicating goku's style.

 

[IvoryAS]

Isn't Base Post UIS #1 Goku vs Base Pre UI Goku almost as large a jump as base Post SSG vs. Base Pre SSG? Or am I exageratting too heavily?

 

[Iisdude1]

Are you referring to when Goku absorbed ssg into his base form and pushed back the sphere of destruction.

 

[IvoryAS]

I more meant after the whole thing, but I guess at that point it wouldn't be much of a difference.

 

[Iisdude1]

I think that's an ok comparison, Goku got a noticeable boost on both occasions and they are kind of similar. Except Goku almost died to the spirit bomb.

 

[Omegas03]

The only evidence that Super Saiyan Rose is akin to Super Saiyan is a singular magazine preview, which has a tendency of being inaccurate in the first place.

Can you show me any evidence that Black's base form and Rose are any different from Goku's base form and Blue?

I mean, the forms should be pretty much the same multiplier wise, but Base Black was toying around with SSB Vegeta and later on SSR Rose isn't that MUCH stronger than the Blues. Even Vegeta after HTC surpasses Black for a brief time.

Could that be explained by Black using SSG essence/ki in his Base form?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I thought that it was his version of blue only in the manga? Vegeta was wailing on him and Black was treating it like a joke, ot was also to show that he had got stronger from replicating goku's style.

The anime never establishes if Rose is just Super Saiyan or if it's his equivalent to Blue. The manga, however, clearly establishes it as his version of Blue.

Considering Black never went Super Saiyan 2 or 3 (despite Goku's body having that outright ability), it seems extremely unlikely for him to just be using Super Saiyan. To add further, Blue is literally Super Saiyan with God Ki.

Overall, there isn't enough of a basis to claim Rose and Blue are different in power or effect.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I mean, the forms should be pretty much the same multiplier wise, but Base Black was toying around with SSB Vegeta and later on SSR Rose isn't that MUCH stronger than the Blues. Even Vegeta after HTC surpasses Black for a brief time.

Could that be explained by Black using SSG essence/ki in his Base form?

It could be, yes. But the use of God Ki in base is very vague until the ToP. I personally feel Black probably was using SSG's power in base form the entire arc, but we will never truly know.

 

[Omegas03]

Yeah, I meant SSG power.

He probably didn't get used to the God power initially until his fight with SSJ2 Goku when he replicated his style/got used to the body. That's where the Base Black vs. SSB Vegeta and the SSR awakening come into play, damn that's a fast adapt though.