Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Zamasu, Vegito, Fusion Zamasu, Goku Black and Hit Downgrade

[AppleLord]

Goku and Vegeta are likely Universal level for training with Whis not only is that an assumption, you have no way to prove it, also those who powerscale from them should be downgrade as well. This is also contradicted when Fusion Zamasu becomes one with the Universe, by fusing with it he becomes Universal level and Goku and company can't even scratch him. Been injured isn't an excuse since they were fighting on par with Future Zamasu before he fuse with the Universe. Zamasu isn't truly intangible either since Zen'o Ki attack was able to kill him when he destroy the Universe along with him.

No one here besides Fusion Zamasu "Soul" form is Universal level. Everyone else should be Multi-Galaxy level at best and that's been generous. All others who powerscale to them should be downgrade as well.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

ummm No.

1) They were already on the verge of Universe level due to the feat in episode 12. So close that a little bit of training would be enough to bump them up to universal.

2) Fusion Zamasu was already Universe level before hand. The Universal tier is wide. A Universal character can still curbstomp another. Also when he merged with the universe he became Universe+ Which is far beyond any other character aside from Zeno.

3) Zamasu became one with the universe and was a soul and thus was not corporeal. Zeno destroyed the entire universe destroying him as well.

4) We've discussed this stuff multiple times I suggest you look up and read those threads.

 

[AppleLord]

That still an assumption and Saiyan multipliers aren't use last time i check.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Who said we used multipliers? We went by the feats of the Goku Beerus fight... Like I said Goku was already on the edge of 3-A. Meaning Super Saiyan Blue post RoF would be Universal. Simple as that. Nothing is wrong with the stats.

 

[AppleLord]

That 's an assumption with vague evidence, how do you measure the strength they got after training? and is still contradicted by Fusion Zamasu feat, who wasn't Universal. Since Goku and Vegeta aren't Universal either.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Apple

You seem to be under the idea that Soul Zamasu is only Universal, when he's Universal+, a feat that infinitely surpasses any other character in the series besides Zen'o/The Omni-King.

 

[AppleLord]

Universal+ for affecting present timeline. Neither did he affected the other universes or the present universe. Fusion Zamasu Tier is irrelevant to the other characters since no one powerscales from him.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Goku and Vegeta are Likely 3-A because they trained for 3 years in the hyperbolic time chamber. I don't even know why Whis is mentioned, because, if we talk about Whiss training, then Golden Frieza should be Likely 3-A too.

 

[The_Everlasting]

But you're using it as an argument to downgrade everyone, when he's in an entirely different tier.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Like I said right now you are debating against things we already talked about multiple times. I suggest you look at the other threads before you say "assumption" which seems to be your only argument....

 

[AppleLord]

Because his previous forms should be downgrade. However, if a better explination is given for their tier i'll degrees.

Training for 3 years doesn't proof that they are above Universal level. They could be Multi-Galaxy+ for all we know.

 

[AppleLord]

Like I said right now you are debating against things we already talked about multiple times. I suggest you look at the other threads before you say "assumption" which seems to be your only argument....

I've no time for that, but you're welcome to enlightening me on what was the decision for such assumption which i believe wasn't even brought up. How do you measure their strength to claim that they are above Multi-Galaxy level after training?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Because his previous forms should be downgrade. However, if a better explination is given for their tier i'll degrees.
Training for 3 years doesn't proof that they are above Universal level. They could be Multi-Galaxy+ for all we know.

Again they were MGL+ when they entered the chamber.... Thus 3 years of training between 2 characters on the edge to being universal would logically mean that they would reach that level of power. Heck we put MGL+ just to be safe after the Beerus Goku fight since both were destroying the universe and goku was cancelling out the shockwaves so that the universe would now be destroyed.

 

[AppleLord]

Because his previous forms should be downgrade. However, if a better explination is given for their tier i'll degrees.
Training for 3 years doesn't proof that they are above Universal level. They could be Multi-Galaxy+ for all we know.

Again they were MGL+ when they entered the chamber.... Thus 3 years of training between 2 characters on the edge to being universal would logically mean that they would reach that level of power. Heck we put MGL+ just to be safe after the Beerus Goku fight since both were destroying the universe and goku was cancelling out the shockwaves so that the universe would now be destroyed.

That seems resonable enough. Could their explination be change too what AidenBrooks999 wrote:

Goku and Vegeta are Likely 3-A because they trained for 3 years in the hyperbolic time chamber. I don't even know why Whis is mentioned, because, if we talk about Whiss training, then Golden Frieza should be Likely 3-A too.

 

[AppleLord]

You can close this after changing the reason for Universal level Goku and Vegeta. Thank You.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

(IMO Golden Frieza should be Likely 3-A, and Saiyan Beyond God should be deleted since it brings more inconsistency (Gold Frieza being at the level of the gods is weird, but kind of reasonable, but 4th Form being 3-B while 1st Form is just High 4-C is just....) and is just a game (not canon) way to call it)

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well the ep 12 feat will be changed to 3-A anyway. So this thread is more or less null and void.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

What? Since when? @Dragonmasterxyz

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

What? Since when? @Dragonmasterxyz

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/517668

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I insist in the change of words for Goku's justification and that the SBG page should be deleted

 

[CantStoptheCrobat]

dragon ball hater detected, i mean vegeta destroyed the HTC (which is considered outlier for some reason) and fusion zamasu was affecting the present as well, if that isn't universe level+ i don't know what is.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's not an outlier, it's just that the HTC is planet sized.

 

[SomebodyData]

@CantStopCrobat we don't consider the HTC as an outlier? It's just that a planet level feat isn't really relevant here.

Also don't call someone a Dragon Ball Hater it is rather rude and a waste of words irrelevant to the conversation

 

[Kyo_Zero]

I assume judging by the episode 12 description (I refuse to force myself to watch the episode), is the episode where the clashes of Beerus and Goku is about to destroy all matter within the universe. Not only is this the COMBINED efforts of Goku and Beerus, not Goku by himself, but we're dealing with Beerus, here, the guy literally destroys stuff for a living, so if anything the universe busting feat is likely more favoured towards him not concentrating his energy on Goku, and allowing it to disperse throughout the universe. Now granted Goku would have to be very strong to not evaporate as a result of Beerus looking at him too hard, so I'm happy with him being 3B here, maybe even on the higher end of it. But from there, as far as I can tell, we only assumed he went to 3A via training simply because we wanted him to, unless there's a big piece of evidence that nobody felt like bringing up that explains this, then I agree that "Likely 3A" is more fair than just "3A because we REALLY like Goku and want him to be".

I apologise if I sound biased as **** here, but I'm not going to pretend I'm not, I really don't like DB, but it seems a requirement to know about it to participate in any vs battle since it's always brought up, but hopefully knowing this doesn't instantly cause you to disregard my opinions because I'm not saying what people want to hear.

 

[Dark649]

I agree that "Likely 3A" is more fair than just "3A because we REALLY like Goku and want him to be".

3-A is ok for the characters since it is a wide tier and we already put them before as likely 3-A.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well, with the upgrade done, this thread really has no purpose any more.

Closing