Goku (Toei) vs infinite

[Darkfire890]

This is a Hax stomp

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Not really. Goku has the AP advantage and can become 4 times stronger with Kaioken × 4. He would just have a lot of trouble actually locating and successfully hitting the right infinite

 

[Darkfire890]

The 4 times is meaningless. Sense he's going to be put into a illusion

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Goku still have a wincon, which is to use Kaioken and hit the right infinite.

Infinite just has more wincons he can execute more easily

 

[Darkfire890]

Wait which Goku is this?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

High 5-A Saiyan Saga(?) Toei Goku

 

[Darkfire890]

Ah wait forget that question I got thrown off by the star and planet rating.

 

[Darkfire890]

Anyway apparently Goku doesn't have a 4x ap advantage going by ShakeResounding. How much AP over the other for a One-shot?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Idk to what scales Goku to be High 5-A, but Infinite stomps a 3.736 Ninatons character. Goku can still make himself 4 times stronger with kaioken

 

[Darkfire890]

4x times isn't apparently enough to One-shot going by the page. And Goku only gonna use kaioken if he senses or knows infinite is stronger anything else is out of character

 

[Greenshifter]

Can't Goku ki sense yet and thus he'd know which one is the real infinite or is this a too early version of him for that?

(e.g could he teleport Goku to the null void with a thought).

The Null Void seems like a bit too far , Null Space works better I think.

 

[Darkfire890]

From Infinite profile "each copy possesses the exact physique of abilities of the original" also "The Miles Electric was unable to analyze his capabilities" so I don't think Goku can even sense if properly. I don't see how he wins this any out of 10

 

[Greenshifter]

I don't really know if that's relevant in this case, the only thing we need to question is whether Eggman for instance absorbing all the bio-energy of the planet would affect the clones of not.

 

[Theuser789]

Goku should be able to sense them, but he wouldn't be able to know which one is the real because they have the same energy

It's not a stomp, it's just Infinite would win most time

 

[Darkfire890]

How 4x AP isn't enough to one-shot. Let alone ever get a victory of 10

 

[Theuser789]

Except he already has a AP advantage on top of the Kaioken, not every match that Goku loses is a stomp

 

[Darkfire890]

How much of AP advantage does he have without Kaioken? I never said every match Goku loses is a stomp neither do I believe that don't jump to conclusions.

 

[Theuser789]

Okay, I didn't say you did in my comment, as said 3 times AP advantage

 

[Darkfire890]

You did "not every match that Goku loses is a stomp" I was seeing different numbers for the AP advantage. I change vote to infinite

 

[Theuser789]

But I didn't say you said that, it was a general statment

 

[Greenshifter]

Goku should be able to sense them, but he wouldn't be able to know which one is the real because they have the same energy

It's not a stomp, it's just Infinite would win most time

Aight, Infinite FRA then.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

So it's 8-0-0 in Infinite's favor

 

[Darkfire890]

But I didn't say you said that, it was a general statment

Bruh I was like the only one saying it's a stomp. Lol let's just drop it

 

[Greenshifter]

Just realized tho, Rookie doesn't have dimensional travel for breaking out of Null Space, meaning he and Sonic probably broke out via force, which is kinda Goku's thing to deal with hax in the first place, so I'm thinking Goku could replicate it with Kaioken and it would probably be his first instinct to do that.

 

[Greenshifter]

Also Sonic says that Infinite's clones lack a heart, soul and the power of friendship, I'm pretty sure you don't have ki if you don't have a soul.

 

[Theuser789]

Except they used speed not force, and he missing a ability doesn't give you the right to create headcanon, also the not having a soul doesn't mean that they don't have energy, Goku would be sensing the the "ki" of the Ruby, which is shared by everything, reason why the Miles Eletric didn't work

 

[Greenshifter]

Goku can up his speed with Kaioken as well, I'm not sure if they should get dimensional travel for that, if it's just the properties of Null Space that if you run really fast that you can escape then Goku should be able to replicate it. Ruby is alive? Still there would be a distinct ki signal from Infinite himself I think since he has life-energy with or without Ruby. Did the Miles Electric ever detect life-energy and it wasn't an issue of where Infinite was when Tails tried to scan him but rather what he does so he wasn't trying to analyze Infinite the same way Goku would.

 

[Theuser789]

First, you should stop trying to do this whole Devil's advocate in every match a character is winning, especialy when you already voted, second pure speed doesn't break out of Null Space, especialy just going 4 times faster, you are going into downplay territory, Infinite himself can go 4 times faster with V.Maximun Overdrive, second Infinite fused himself into the Ruby, even glitching when he lost, so his energy will be felt the same, and yes, the Miles Eletric is info analysis, what Ki sensing is as well, also what are you saying? It was a issue when Tails scanned Infinite

 

[Greenshifter]

I like Sonic verse and I like DB, I want to accurately represent both of their characters, there has also been no input from supporters of DB so me questioning whether the reasoning is sound for Sonic's votes is allowed isn't it? Well if Eggman accounts for V. Maximum Overdrive when stating that nothing could get out of Null Space then you have a point. You got a point with him fusing but life energy isn't what Infinite attacks with, it's what makes you tell the difference between alive or dead, something which I doubt can be applied to the clones. I'm saying Tails didn't scan whether Infinite was alive or dead, but rather what he can do.

 

[Theuser789]

The reason why it's because it's anoying, especialy when you use the smallest details to fuss over, not accuracy, saying "character has weak" is just anoying when it's such a minor point, like you rn using, like "thing lacks a soul so I must make a gigantic theory of it"

You can't escape Null Space by just running fast, pronto, Kaioken is not going to break that, double boost worked because Sonic has dimensional travel, that's it, stop making elaborated theories over minor details

Ki is pretty much energy, in DB dead things are well, dead, so they have no energy, just because they are souless doesn't equate to being dead, they are alive and have energy, is like saying that Goku wouldn't sense a robot's energy, or even Super Sonic, Goku is only going to sense the energy of the Ruby, the Ruby messes with your sense, making things into reality for the user, for Goku it will be 100% real

 

[Greenshifter]

Goku wouldn't sense a robot's energy, that's my point.

 

[Theuser789]

Well, Infinite's illusions aren't like robots tho, in Goku's reality they will be real in every way except no soul, which I don't think it matters, has Grace ended?

 

[Greenshifter]

They are completely controlled by him and have no soul so they might as well be. I have also never seen any fictional character with life-force but without soul except maybe some rare inapplicable cases.

 

[Theuser789]

Also Goku literaly gets Ki from non living beings in the Spirit Bomb as well

 

[Greenshifter]

Who Freeza? he still has a soul and apparently ki as well sooo… Getting life-force from someone who doesn't have any seems like a bit contradictory don't you think?

 

[Theuser789]

Goku gets from the planet both in the Sayain and Freeza saga, he even says so, only in the Buu Arc people give him energy themselfs

 

[Theuser789]

They are completely controlled by him and have no soul so they might as well be. I have also never seen any fictional character with life-force but without soul except maybe some rare inapplicable cases.

Their energy is the Ruby, also how many you have seen is irrelevant here

You are completely not understanding how the Ruby works, the Ruby makes you believe everything it makes is real, Tails straight up says so, down to your brain, and Zavok still had his personality and thoughts, they are not robots as you make it out

 

[Greenshifter]

Hmm ok fair point, unless plants have souls.

But I was mainly talking about characters without a soul still having life-force.

 

[Theuser789]

Soul has nothing to do with having no life force, they are not related in either verse

 

[AlexZiggy]

Well, nothing much I can add here. Voting Edgy Jackal boy via Phantom Ruby hax.