Goku Downgrade

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

You people keep forgetting, Goku said "Won't I die if I go there?"
Goku never specified the cause of death if he went there. For all we know, it could be due to intense pressure or lack of oxygen, not only heat, but apparently people immediately went for heat. Besides, Goku is an idiot, and let's be honest about that, his word shouldn't be taken as is all the time, not to mention, he was questioning wether he can survive or not, and not directly confirming 100% he can't survive.

So in conclusion, this is too vague to be accepted, unless it's further explained, which will likely never get addressed again

Why wouldnt Goku's word be valid? He is the one questioning it for himself. Just because he is an idioit shouldnt be much of a factor, if anything, not one at all

He never questions himself if he can beat people going from Frieza to even Beerus, yet he would question if he could survive the heat from a planet's core?

 

[FTW395]

Maybe but the problem here is that, no matter what the verse and it's customs, an inconsistency is still in inconsistency. We can't just ignore any/all inconsistent anti-feats just because its Dragon Ball. Im not saying I agree with the downgrading but if we give this treatment to other verses, then DB should be given the same treatment to be fair.

What verses are getting downgrades like these? Because I've yet to see any of them.

 

[Antoniofer]

Again, no one is going to be downgraded, is just a note for characters like Goku and Vegetta that can't resist temperatures above 600 C (don't known how to put the circle), at least not in base; being weaks to high temperatures isn't nothing new, but if people will ignore filler, why not downgrade Piccolo and some U6 fighters due the other filler that is even more inconsistent? I doubt that people will agreed with that

 

[FTW395]

Again, no one is going to be downgraded, is just a note for characters like Goku and Vegetta that can't resist temperatures above 600 C (don't known how to put the circle), at least not in base; being weaks to high temperatures isn't nothing new, but if people will ignore filler, why not downgrade Piccolo and some U6 fighters due the other filler that is even more inconsistent? I doubt that people will agreed with that

Yeah, that's a huge weakness in versus battles, seems like quite the downgrade to me.

 

[Sidali891]

@Anime4Life

Because Goku doesn't know the factors that could lead to death in the inner core of the Earth. Comparing this to Freiza and Beerus is pointless, they're two different things all together. One is about fighting (which Goku's thing) and the other is about physics (Goku isn't really bright in those terms)

 

[RadicalMrR]

Again, no one is going to be downgraded, is just a note for characters like Goku and Vegetta that can't resist temperatures above 600 C (don't known how to put the circle), at least not in base; being weaks to high temperatures isn't nothing new, but if people will ignore filler, why not downgrade Piccolo and some U6 fighters due the other filler that is even more inconsistent? I doubt that people will agreed with that

What? It's because of inconsistency that Piccolo and the others aren't 3-B.

 

[Antoniofer]

Was the inconsistence that put Gotenks (SSJ3) << Vegetta (base) ~ Goku (base), but just little time ago, Goku (base) ~ Frost (3rd form) > Piccolo; when is impossible to Piccolo being stronger than Super Buu, or even Buuhan, even when he trained 1 year in ROSAT (I think is abreviated that way), his power didn't increased that much during Cell Saga; consistently, Piccolo should be around perfect form Cell level. Between other inconsistences in tha Arc, people still scaled to it, so I don't see nothing bad at all is we consider what happened here, at least not for now.

 

[Sethisbest]

Why people assume heat?it makes more logic that it's because of oxygen?since that is his weakness.He survived lava in Z,lol

 

[RadicalMrR]

Piccolo was already large star level since buu sand has trained for like 6 years since then thats why we rate him 4-B not because of the gotenks stuff.

Also the gotenks stuff doesn't have a toriyama manuscript just like this episode.

 

[Antoniofer]

I see, welp, ignoring fillers is something good for keep the consistence; it exist some cases of people being damage by high temperatures, but we can wait more for a solid proof; at least in GT continuity, they aren't resistent to heat

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well wasnt GT Goku in SSJ4 effected by the Ice/Heat hax of those 2 shadow dragons?

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Wasn't there a scene where Pilaf, Shu, and Mai held down Goku with their mech suits and blasted him with a flamethrower? Goku was unscathed for the most part, iirc.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Regardless, the weakness to heat thing shouldn't even be a discussion. 1.) This is potentially fillar, and there are both fillar scenes and canon scenes that contradict this. We have a fillar scene of Goku surviving the surface of a star. We have both fillar and manga scenes of Goku being submerged in lava in his fight with Frieza on Namek. We have Vegeta fighting an opponent with lava manipulation. 2.) We already know Goku needs to breathe, and there's no breathable oxygen in the Earth's core. There's no reason why he wouldn't need a suit. There's also almost certainly toxic fumes in the core, and there's nothing to suggest that Goku is resistant to this. In fact, Goku Black and Zamasu are affected by nerve gas, or whatever that was that Mai used on them. It made them cough.

There's far more evidence and virtually no contradiction that breathing is the issue here, not heat.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

IIRC Super has no filler scenes. Everything is canon so that can be factored out.

 

[FTW395]

IIRC Super has no filler scenes. Everything is canon so that can be factored out.

That's not true Super is barely canon on its own, these scenes are more likely to be filler than to be actual canon.

 

[Reppuzan]

@FTW

According to TheEverlasting, there are no filler episodes, so everything is canon. In addition, DBS is a direct continuation of DBZ minus the epilogue and was written by Toriyama.

However, it's best to treat this statement as an Anti-Feat aside from the possible implications of toxic fumes and a lack of oxygen.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Even if it's not filler, Goku has a known weakness of needing to breathe. This is perfectly in alignment with that, whether it's due to lack of oxygen, or toxic fumes, or both. A weakness to heat shouldn't even be under discussion. There's literally no reason for it.

 

[Sethisbest]

Was the inconsistence that put Gotenks (SSJ3) << Vegetta (base) ~ Goku (base), but just little time ago, Goku (base) ~ Frost (3rd form) > Piccolo; when is impossible to Piccolo being stronger than Super Buu, or even Buuhan, even when he trained 1 year in ROSAT (I think is abreviated that way), his power didn't increased that much during Cell Saga; consistently, Piccolo should be around perfect form Cell level. Between other inconsistences in tha Arc, people still scaled to it, so I don't see nothing bad at all is we consider what happened here, at least not for now.

Um,Piccolo went from 3rd form Frieza to stronger than Frieza in 3 years of training for androids and that's growth of few dozens times in strenght

 

[FTW395]

@FTW
According to TheEverlasting, there are no filler episodes, so everything is canon. In addition, DBS is a direct continuation of DBZ minus the epilogue and was written by Toriyama.

However, it's best to treat this statement as an Anti-Feat aside from the possible implications of toxic fumes and a lack of oxygen.

That depends on what the actual definition is of filler/canon. Canon is work that comes directly from the author and we have basically no way of knowing if these episodes are direct work of Toriyama. We know the big arcs are canon because Toriyama has involvement in those, but we don't know that about these episodes.

 

[Reppuzan]

@FTW

Everything in the Super anime is written by Toriyama and there is nothing to "fill in" as the manga is playing catch up to the anime and differs significantly.

 

[Joseph619]

Where this this filler nonsense coming from. The entire BoG arc in super is a remake of the movies and most likely not taken from Toriyama's manuscrpt. So does that mean Goku and Beerus should be downgraded to 4B since the movie remake arcs are non canon. Either entire Super is canon, or non canon. If the current arc is non canon them so are both movie remake arcs.

 

[Joseph619]

Anyway can this thread be closed? This is Goku's weakness however it doesn't affect his stats so it's not a downgrade.