Gojo Vs Gunvolt

[Bobsican]

ASG2 GV is used, speed equalized

Gunvolt

Gojo

 

[Smashtwig]

Nah I'd prevade (bro thinks he's him)

 

[Smashtwig]

I'm not very sure if Septima and Cursed Energy can be equalized? Former is emotion based to a degree being a psychic power but I heard CE is pretty specific and more than just "negative emotions"


GVs electricity is at the electron level which I'm sure Gojo can't use infinity against?

 

[Bobsican]

Septimas also include biological stuff and cover emotional states in general that don't physically spread out, it'd be inappropiate to apply verse equalization.

 

[DMUA]

Domain Expansion unlimited void, go home

 

[Smashtwig]

Idk if it's not verse equalized Gojo may not think to start with it since GV wouldn't have Cursed Energy to detect.

I heard that Infinity is only atomic level, while GVs Flashfield is electron level, so GV should be able to go straight through with it

There's also the fact that GV can be stealthy to close in since the starting distance is much longer than what GV battles take place in

 

[DMUA]

Every human being has cursed energy, it's generated by negative emotions. Toji is explicitly an anomaly (to the point he canonically says, almost verbatim, that he's built different). There's no reason he wouldn't be able to detect him immediately with Six Eyes because Gunvolt isn't like, a Blank from Warhammer 40K.

I already said this in DMs, but Sukuna had a weapon for generating lightning the entire fight and never elected to use it, which wouldn't make sense if infinity couldn't block electrons. It's Six Eyes that specifically can only deal with atoms and an 18 year old Gojo that had trouble filtering them with infinity, even at that stage he could still block it and probably hold his breath to go to a place with fresh oxygen, and if he's close enough for flashfield Gojo's totally liable to just try hitting back, seeing Prevasion in action and just trying Unlimited Void (which would work, by all accounts)

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I heard that Infinity is only atomic level

He can stop lightning, so it should be macro quantum level or something idk

 

[Smashtwig]

If that's really how it works then GV doesn't have much of a wincon in the first place. But I'm not really sure if any old electricity just counts, electricity doesn't necessarily have to be of electrons (I don't think?) so long as a charged particles or mass is moving that would be called "electricity" too, if I understand science right

If Gojo tries punching at a Flashfielding GV he'd unironicaly just hit him without triggering Prevasion tbh

 

[DMUA]

If that's really how it works then GV doesn't have much of a wincon in the first place.

That was what I was implying

But I'm not really sure if any old electricity just counts, electricity doesn't necessarily have to be of electrons (I don't think?) so long as a charged particles or mass is moving that would be called "electricity" too, if I understand science right

You can turn that back around on Gunvolt and ask why Azure Striker being mentioned to control electrons means it's bolts of electricity are automatically macro quantic in scale, if you do want to pursue that

If Gojo tries punching at a Flashfielding GV he'd unironicaly just hit him without triggering Prevasion tbh

The main thing is that it would just do no damage given the AP gap, so the obvious thing would be to go for Domain Expansion to just not worry about that problem

 

[Smashtwig]

That was what I was implying

You can turn that back around on Gunvolt and ask why Azure Striker being mentioned to control electrons means it's bolts of electricity are automatically macro quantic in scale, if you do want to pursue that

Eh the difference that it is indeed on that scale since he used it on Copens Prevasion and managed to hit it. With his Flashfield If it was not on that scale GV wouldn't be able to hit through Copens Prevasion. If I recall he can even hit Jota while he's traveling as photons too but even discounting that Asimov was also able to hit through Prevasion with Voltaic Chains or even grab with them as seen in GV3. If it can hit through things on a Macro-Quantum scale I don't see why it can hit through this on an atomic one. GV can even hit through Asimov's Prevasion with a tagged Flashfield too so long as he doesn't shoot em

The main thing is that it would just do no damage given the AP gap, so the obvious thing would be to go for Domain Expansion to just not worry about that problem

Does Gojo just immediately start with it? Never seen that in character

 

[DMUA]

Eh the difference that it is indeed on that scale since he used it on Copens Prevasion and managed to hit it. With his Flashfield If it was not on that scale GV wouldn't be able to hit through Copens Prevasion. If I recall he can even hit Jota while he's traveling as photons too but even discounting that Asimov was also able to hit through Prevasion with Voltaic Chains or even grab with them as seen in GV3. If it can hit through things on a Macro-Quantum scale I don't see why it can hit through this on an atomic one. GV can even hit through Asimov's Prevasion with a tagged Flashfield too so long as he doesn't shoot em

I guess, though most cases would need him to tag the target and that doesn't work here

Does Gojo just immediately start with it? Never seen that in character

He's also never dealt with a character that can no sell his hits, so I figure seeing his fists or Red do absolutely nothing would push him to that extent

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

If gojo actually wins this I'm eating my arm

 

[XDragnoir]

Every human being has cursed energy, it's generated by negative emotions

How exactly would that be equalized to someone who completely lacks an energy generated by negative emotions? I am pretty sure I've seen a dozen other matches where characters with "an energy every human being has" didn't have it equalized to their opponent's.

 

[Smashtwig]

If gojo actually wins this I'm eating my arm

You actually might depending on how this plays out


GV’s Flashfield can damage on its own without a tag since GV1, in fact for a player that has never played the game before would more than likely damage foes by just using the Flashfield on its own without tagging- at least, that’s what I did for like the first two stages of the game because I was dumb. If Gojo gets zapped by the Flashfield, he really could just die because of the AP difference

Really the only attack Gunvolt has that wouldn’t work is his Tags, every lightning attack he has has shown to be of Macro-Quantic scale

Considering the range is relatively long Gunvolt might consider using his stealth skills to close the gap like he does in the Aquatic Base and the Pharma Lab without being noticed, and he actually does endorse stealth over guns blazing if possible as shown in the Stratoscombs stage

I also have faith that his dodging skill would let him deal with Gojo’s relatively linear attacks (Blue might be tough with Gojo’s control over it but again, stealth). GV’s dealt with attacks that are effectively Danmaku before or cover the screen or sneak him from blind spots so I’m sure he can at least dodge long range attacks coming from a singular source point

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

You actually might depending on how this plays out


GV’s Flashfield can damage on its own without a tag since GV1, in fact for a player that has never played the game before would more than likely damage foes by just using the Flashfield on its own without tagging- at least, that’s what I did for like the first two stages of the game because I was dumb. If Gojo gets zapped by the Flashfield, he really could just die because of the AP difference

Really the only attack Gunvolt has that wouldn’t work is his Tags, every lightning attack he has has shown to be of Macro-Quantic scale

Considering the range is relatively long Gunvolt might consider using his stealth skills to close the gap like he does in the Aquatic Base and the Pharma Lab without being noticed, and he actually does endorse stealth over guns blazing if possible as shown in the Stratoscombs stage

I also have faith that his dodging skill would let him deal with Gojo’s relatively linear attacks (Blue might be tough with Gojo’s control over it but again, stealth). GV’s dealt with attacks that are effectively Danmaku before or cover the screen or sneak him from blind spots so I’m sure he can at least dodge long range attacks coming from a singular source point

Welp, I better get it seasoned. At least I'm hungry rn

 

[DMUA]

How exactly would that be equalized to someone who completely lacks an energy generated by negative emotions? I am pretty sure I've seen a dozen other matches where characters with "an energy every human being has" didn't have it equalized to their opponent's.

The main thing is that JJK is very explicit about normal people having it to some extent even if they aren't special (Maki for instance having a "normal person's" cursed energy instead of being totally empty and regarded as a building by domains and the likes prior to completing her heavenly restriction), and it's basis isn't any specific biological function that'd be unique to a verse, it's just having negative emotions. If there are other cases where something like that's the case and they ignore it, behold Whataboutism because I don't agree with that idea as a general rule.

 

[Bobsican]

I'd disagree with equalizing Septima stuff to CE, but anything else is fair game IMO.

 

[Smashtwig]

Even if everyone did have Cursed Energy I can see Gunvolt blending in the crowd with other people if SBA is in NYC. Guy is marked a super terrorist in public and he can manage to blend just fine with some superman glasses or just normal casual clothes. Of course he’s in his battle gear but I don’t see how he wouldn’t be able to mask his CE signature with everyone else if he decides to go stealth at the beginning (the likelihood he will would be higher the further the range between the two are)

 

[DMUA]

I'd disagree with equalizing Septima stuff to CE, but anything else is fair game IMO.

I never said this. I just said Gunvolt should have cursed energy because that's not a unique attribute.

Even if everyone did have Cursed Energy I can see Gunvolt blending in the crowd with other people if SBA is in NYC.

"The enemy stand user could be anyone!"
The enemy stand user:

More seriously they're a Japanese 15 year old in this outfit, even if you assume NYC is populated (which SBA never officially states but most of the time it's just a no) I don't see how this is getting past Six Eye's extreme perception. Spare clothes and glasses aren't in his standard equipment and SBA says the fighters know where the other is so the fight can commence immediately, that route just isn't going to work out.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

"The enemy stand user could be anyone!"
The enemy stand user:

More seriously they're a Japanese 15 year old in this outfit, even if you assume NYC is populated (which SBA never officially states but most of the time it's just a no) I don't see how this is getting past Six Eye's extreme perception. Spare clothes and glasses aren't in his standard equipment and SBA says the fighters know where the other is so the fight can commence immediately, that route just isn't going to work out.

Gunvolt would be more out of place than Zoro at a redhead convention

 

[Smashtwig]

So the fight can commence immediately, that route just isn't going to work out.

Oh that's how it works, I honestly thought people had to find each other first lol

 

[DMUA]

Well, more precisely it's

The characters know the direction their opponent(s) start in. Furthermore, they get knowledge of the character's appearance, equivalent to the knowledge they could have gained if they would have been allowed to briefly observe the form opponent(s) starting in using their senses of sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch (or equivalent).

But as I mentioned, a disguise isn't in Gunvolt's standard equipment and he has no prep so this is effectively an instant detection anyways

 

[Smashtwig]

I'm going to assume that he can see through walls and if GV is in battle armor I guess if he gets noticed trying to hide behind stuff he'd probably get noticed? The guy snuck past high level security from the cooperation that rules country especially when hes wearing a bright blue suit in GV1, and then did the same for like 6 months on the run after killing one of their biggest leaders. im sure he can do  something

It's also entirely possible that Gunvolt can just... not use his Flashfield at all and just shoot lightning from his gun (referred to as "Powerful Seventh/Septima")- which should be the same as any of his other lightning skills being on the electron scale. It's something that he can do, especially if he finds that he's that far away. Though it's more likely that Gunvolt uses his regular darts first, then switch when Gojo just says no with Infinity. In fact, it's seemingly a move he can pull out at the beginning of the fight as shown here (though it may just be a visual effect, but I don't see a dart in there).

Meanwhile I'm not sure if Gojo would try D. Expansion immediately, even after a Blue gets Prevaded, I'd feel like he'd at least try a Purple with its EE properties first before potentially endangering people with his Domain Expansion (SBA doesnt state but NYC is one of the most populus cities in the world so I feel like there would be people there). Plus I feel like despite the AP difference (not sure Gojo can sense that though its already debatable if GV has CE) Gojo isn't going to take a dart (with no CE) very seriously and show off his Infinity way before GV shows Prevasion since he normally tries dodging, making GV resort to his other moves faster (given how he's fought Prevasion users and others like Nova who were immune to his Darts, GV is used to resorting to his electricity as soon as he finds out that his Darts dont work, because that's how you beat those guys in the game)

I also feel like GV is generally just a better dodger (at least when it comes to non-hand to hand which is kind of suicide unknowingly to Gojo) too, the scariest I've seen Gojo when it comes to attack patterns is the 8 blues and the time where he had full control over a blue which Gunvolt has dealt with both before (see Nova's Mind Melder, and Asimov Greed Snatcher Variants too). So the likelihood that Gojo finds out about Prevasion is faster than GV can find out about Infinity is lower.

 

[XDragnoir]

The main thing is that JJK is very explicit about normal people having it to some extent even if they aren't special (Maki for instance having a "normal person's" cursed energy instead of being totally empty and regarded as a building by domains and the likes prior to completing her heavenly restriction), and it's basis isn't any specific biological function that'd be unique to a verse, it's just having negative emotions.

Normal people having it and "specific biological functions" don't matter? Like, that's not the point, verse equalization makes two existent power sources "be the same" for practical purposes, you can't make someone without an special energy have a special energy, that's not what equalization does.

If there are other cases where something like that's the case and they ignore it, behold Whataboutism because I don't agree with that idea as a general rule.

If all you got from what I said was an "whataboutism" I think you missed my point, but I guess we can do a Q&A thread on this topic?

 

[DMUA]

Normal people having it and "specific biological functions" don't matter? Like, that's not the point, verse equalization makes two existent power sources "be the same" for practical purposes, you can't make someone without an special energy have a special energy, that's not what equalization does.

Does anyone who fights a Dragon Ball character immediately become an inorganic because they don't have Ki, representative of their lifeforce? Cursed Energy is just the mental variant, and we see that it's an a very specific exception for someone to totally lack regardless of if they actively use it or not.

The point of verse equalization is to make battles less lopsided due to weird mechanics not strictly translating one to one, making literally everyone outside of Jujutsu Kaisen Toji is a direct afront to that idea.

 

[Smashtwig]

i dont wanna be that guy to say Inconclusive like... a g a i n. But at the end of the day it really depends on "who presses the win button first" which I think might go in GVs favor, but like- Gojo might have more oppourtunities with using his because GV's more likely options (excluding the shoot pure electron blast thing) are much shorter range

 

[Bobsican]

Seems pretty even given the above, Inconclusive FRA

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Incon I guess

 

[XDragnoir]

Does anyone who fights a Dragon Ball character immediately become an inorganic because they don't have Ki, representative of their lifeforce?

We give souls and lifeforce to all characters regardless if their verses brings these two things up at any point or not, damn, I am sure we give/treat IRL animals as having souls although I've never seen it being brought up in practice even tho souls don't exist as far as we know, so this is a false equivalence.

For example, we don't equalize all characters to Haki because even tho Haki is something every being has in-verse, it's in fact not someone's lifeforce (like Ki) so it doesn't have an equivalent in most verses.

Cursed Energy is just the mental variant, and we see that it's an a very specific exception for someone to totally lack regardless of if they actively use it or not.

It's still something unique that not every single verse has an equivalent, so what? The fact there are cases, regardless of how rare, of beings who have negative emotions and lack CE completely ends your point IMO, because it clearly showcases that simply having the emotions doesn't mean having the energy, which in turn means that to be equalized someone can't simply have the emotions, the energy that comes from it is also needed.

The point of verse equalization is to make battles less lopsided due to weird mechanics not strictly translating one to one, making literally everyone outside of Jujutsu Kaisen Toji is a direct afront to that idea.

It's not an "afront", it's simply how the rules work, just like how Speed Equalization isn't an "ignore speed completely" anymore but instead a set of rules to try to make fights fair more often (with cases where the equalization simply reverses a speed stomp not being unheard of, maybe not even that rare), Energy Equalization isn't an "ignore the differences completely" (AFAIK it never was), but instead a set of rules to make 2 similar concepts work against each other as if they were the same, so you can't ignore the need of a similar concept to be equalized because "making everyone Toji is unfair to JJK".

 

[Migue79]

Incon FRA

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Incon FRA.

 

[Robo432343]

incon fra

 

[MysticBrawler]

Inconclusive FRA

 

[Smashtwig]

Grac (8 21 am rn)

 

[VoidGoji]

I'm confused: how does "lightning works at an electron level" (a.k.a normal lightning afaik) bypass spatial manipulation? It extends/divides space. Lightning techniques are a thing in jjk and apparently they can't bypass Infinity.

Not voting yet, just trying to understand before doing so

 

[Smashtwig]

Infinity only works on an atomic level, the argument basically comes from this stated limitation, and I'm not sure if lightning techniques in JJK are stated to even be real lightning and could just be techniques that move around charged molecules or atoms (aka electricity). Even then lightning strikes are technically big since it's a bunch of particles bundled up together to follow a set ionized path

Should already be explained up there but to make it easier to understand, the argument of Infinity vs Azure Striker would be similar to a tennis racket deflecting some sand particles. Gunvolt's control over electrons is precise enough to hit other electron intangibles whereas his control in GV3 (being a berserk dragon) was actually not able to if I recall (can't hyperlink the scan rn I'm busy). So perhaps Infinity could deflect normal lightning, but the control GV has over electrons makes the difference in hitting the guy since it can weave through the "net" that is the Infinity where as normal lightning would just be like... packed sand

So I guess you're gonna need a CRT if you wanna upgrade Infinity to electron level

 

[VoidGoji]

Except its just spatial manipulation, not matter manipulation at the atomic level that stops things? Its just saying "nuh uh" to things approaching him. If it was some power nulling or space-shattering lightning I would understand, but just lightning being manipulated at particle-level?

 

[Smashtwig]

Hey man that's just how it is, idk why Gege put that limitation on there but it's there. Spatial manip on the atomic level doesn't mean spatial manipulation on anything lower, otherwise Gege would have written "spatial manipulation on subatomic levels" or something. I get what you're saying but it would contridict with the fact that Gojo had to work at getting it to filter oxygen and stuff and I don't think there's a feat or scan that said he progressed that aspect further onto the electron scale. If it really was something that goes "no" to everything and everything the Gojo wouldn't need to work on making it filter stuff to the atomic level in the first place


If I told you that some of his electrical abilities defy common sense like his electricity/electrons being able to not be wiped out by spatial existence erasure would that make you feel better because it can do that too lol. In later keys its able to get past spatial intang too

 

[Smashtwig]

Alright grace is over, gon add