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Gohan (DBS) vs Beerus (DBS)

C2_of_Omegon said:
That's not how that works. If a hax doesn't work on someone stronger than you, than that's a weakness of the hax not a resistance feat. Ergo, Vegeta wouldn't have a resistance to Existence Erasure if that's how Hakai worked. Shoot, neither would Frieza for that matter.
Click to expand...
If that’s now how it works then how did Evolution and even Frieza counter it
 
Even if Cell Max was weakened, the fact that he couldn't even budge Saigo Gohan's aura is pretty damning. Plus, they call him the strongest of the current lot, so...yeah
 
Jiren's_Dad said:
If that’s now how it works then how did Evolution and even Frieza counter it
Click to expand...
Because they have resistance to the ability. The Hakai should have erased them but it didn't, hence why they got the credited with a resistance. It's like when Vegeta got hit a blast of cold that was stated to be at the Absolute Zero and yet, Vegeta was unaffected except having his arm incased in ice. Or like when Vegeta threw off Babadi's mind control.

EDIT: There's not always going to be some in-verse explanation on why some characters can resist a power or ability and why others can't. That why resistance feats are generally given case-by-case.
 
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Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Yes, but even then it was very clear Gohan had a very clear advantage against Cell Max

The statement is that if Cell Max would've been completed he'd be stronger than Broly, and as we all know, he was never completed and released prematurely. So you can't use it for scaling

Also, there's no evidence that Cell Max only lacked mind to be completed, as we know from the original Cell that Cell not only lacked mind when he was incomplete, but also power, as Semi-Perfect Cell states himself thst being Perfect would make him Perfect
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1. Having a clear advantage over someone on SSGSS Goku's level isn't really anything to write home to, especially when his opponent is Beerus

2. "Had Cell Max been completed even Broly would be unable to defeat him. However, due to his early activation, he became an uncontrollable monster"
This doesn't necessarily mean Cell Max wasn't at his physical strongest. Literally the only thing this statement says is that his brain wasn't programmed right. It's more likely than not that Cell Max's body was already competed. In the movie, it was stated that Cell Max couldn't be released too early or else it might turn on the RRA, not because it wasn't strong enough. Unlike the original Cell, Cell Max doesn't need to absorb androids to become stronger, so you can't really use Cell as a reference to how Cell Max works. So overall, we can use it for scaling.
 
Overall, Beerus should win due to not losing too badly in terms of raw stats, and massively outskilling Gohan in every way imaginable
 
I wouldn’t say Gohan is slightly stronger the Beerus. If Broly is considered stronger then Beerus and Gogeta destroyed him yet Cell Max is considered weaker the Broly or equal yet this battle was considered to be the strongest in history meaning either Gohan is slightly stronger then Gogeta who destroyed an above Beerus character or he’s massively above Gogeta. Either way the narrative saying he has the potential to be the strongest and Gohan acting on that potential and there’s many sources saying he became the strongest then my money is on Gohan by a lot unless retconned Gohan is the strongest non Angel character.
Mickey1940 said:
Overall, Beerus should win due to not losing too badly in terms of raw stats, and massively outskilling Gohan in every way imaginable
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If he senses that Gohan is overwhelmingly stronger and can one-shot, he will use his aura to protect himself.
 
how does Gohan deal with Ultra Instinct and EE aura? or paralysis? or simply getting outskilled?

Gohan doesn't scale to Cell Max's full power since he never fought Cell Max at full power. He only 1 shot Cell Max AFTER he was weakened by like 7 people simultaneously, AFTER getting his right ar blown off and half petrified, and AFTER getting killed by Gohan specifically targeting his weak spot. Why do people think Beerus would just get 1 shot?
 
Mickey1940 said:
how does Gohan deal with Ultra Instinct and EE aura? or paralysis? or simply getting outskilled?
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1. Gohan is way too fast for that to matter
2. Beerus doesn't use the aura unless angry
3. See first point

(also see below; mitigates the things mentioned in 1 and 3)
Mickey1940 said:
Gohan doesn't scale to Cell Max's full power since he never fought Cell Max at full power. He only 1 shot Cell Max AFTER he was weakened by like 7 people simultaneously, AFTER getting his right ar blown off and half petrified, and AFTER getting killed by Gohan specifically targeting his weak spot. Why do people think Beerus would just get 1 shot?
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For one, the only strike that actually weakened him was Gamma 2's suicide attack. For another, Saigo Gohan has been stated to be the strongest, so it can be reasoned that Cell Max's weakening isn't exclusively why the Saiyan could completely tank a strike from it without even flinching and effortlessly obliterate the creature. Thus the stat gap arguments are seemingly valid
 
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Mickey1940 said:
how does Gohan deal with Ultra Instinct and EE aura? or paralysis? or simply getting outskilled?

Gohan doesn't scale to Cell Max's full power since he never fought Cell Max at full power. He only 1 shot Cell Max AFTER he was weakened by like 7 people simultaneously, AFTER getting his right ar blown off and half petrified, and AFTER getting killed by Gohan specifically targeting his weak spot. Why do people think Beerus would just get 1 shot?
Click to expand...
Sigh.
Gohan beast is the strongest character in the series so far barring the angels. He's so far above the GoD tier characters that he one shots them all.
Toriyama stated that at his strongest, gohan is stronger than anybody else.
Gohan also has statements about having "the strongest battle in history" with cell max. This would include gogeta and broly's battle along with UI Goku and Jiren's battle, even the three GoD battle. And if we take the manga continuity, Gohan's fight chronologically takes place after Black freeza who could possibly take a post granolah arc UI Gogeta.
Cell max is stated by toriyama to be possibly capable of taking down a post granolah saga Broly (after having his brain completed so physically he scales) who must have gotten far stronger after training with beerus and whis.
Gohan blocked his full power with his aura. We haven't seen a level of superiority this drastic before.
Cell max easily beat orange piccolo with one arm, piccolo is stated to be comparable to Goku and Vegeta by toriyama which scales him to their instinct forms. (The gammas scale to their blue forms)
The scaling chains look like this.
Beerus < Broly < DBS SH Broly ~ Cell max <<< Gohan beast.
Beerus <= belmod < Jiren <<< hidden power Jiren < UI Goku ~ Orange piccolo < Cell max <<< Gohan beast.
Beerus < Broly <<< Blue gogeta < Gohan beast.

Some people will say that Cell max wasn't completed so he doesn't scale to broly. However hedo states that cell max is physically complete but just needs a brain so he can be controlled. So cell max still scales to Broly and Gohan still face tanked an attack comparable in attack power to post Granolah saga broly with his aura.
Some people will say that cell max was weakened after fighting piccolo but this is wrong. He only lost his arm and still easily beat piccolo who's comparable to full power Goku and vegeta after the granolah saga chronologically. Regardless, cell max with one arm vs Gohan is still stated to be the strongest battle in history so this argument is irrelevant.

Some people will say beerus can hakai. Gohan can literally blink him out of existence before he can say the word.
Gohan washes
Click to expand...
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Gohan beast is the strongest character in the series so far barring the angels. He's so far above the GoD tier characters that he one shots them all.
Toriyama stated that at his strongest, gohan is stronger than anybody else.
Gohan also has statements about having "the strongest battle in history" with cell max. This would include gogeta and broly's battle along with UI Goku and Jiren's battle, even the three GoD battle. And if we take the manga continuity, Gohan's fight chronologically takes place after Black freeza who could possibly take a post granolah arc UI Gogeta.
Cell max is stated by toriyama to be possibly capable of taking down a post granolah saga Broly (after having his brain completed so physically he scales) who must have gotten far stronger after training with beerus and whis.
Gohan blocked his full power with his aura. We haven't seen a level of superiority this drastic before.
Cell max easily beat orange piccolo with one arm, piccolo is stated to be comparable to Goku and Vegeta by toriyama which scales him to their instinct forms. (The gammas scale to their blue forms)
The scaling chains look like this.
Beerus < Broly < DBS SH Broly ~ Cell max <<< Gohan beast.
Beerus <= belmod < Jiren <<< hidden power Jiren < UI Goku ~ Orange piccolo < Cell max <<< Gohan beast.
Beerus < Broly <<< Blue gogeta < Gohan beast.

Some people will say that Cell max wasn't completed so he doesn't scale to broly. However hedo states that cell max is physically complete but just needs a brain so he can be controlled. So cell max still scales to Broly and Gohan still face tanked an attack comparable in attack power to post Granolah saga broly with his aura.
Some people will say that cell max was weakened after fighting piccolo but this is wrong. He only lost his arm and still easily beat piccolo who's comparable to full power Goku and vegeta after the granolah saga chronologically. Regardless, cell max with one arm vs Gohan is still stated to be the strongest battle in history so this argument is irrelevant.

Some people will say beerus can hakai. Gohan can literally blink him out of existence before he can say the word.
Gohan washes.
Click to expand...
All of that is irrelevant if Gohan can't even touch Beerus...
 
Gohan can just walk through the hakai or control it the same way freeza did through raw power.
In fact, Gohan can look at beerus a little too long and beerus will just
cringe.gif
 
This is an in verse battle where raw power can overcome hax. Nobody genuinely thinks that beerus can passively kill gohan with hakai regardless of the stat difference. That's like thinking that Jiren would lose to GoD toppo because he never displayed EE resistance.
 
Vizer04 said:
Speed equal: Beerus hakais

Speed unequal: Gohan blitzes and one-shots
Click to expand...
Gohan doesn't blitz and one-shot. The gap in power is not high enough for that, and Beerus also has Ultra Instinct to help dodge attacks. In addition, the Tournament of Power shows that energy of destruction isn't absolute and can be overcome with sufficiently high power. I still believe that Beerus would win, but it appears that Gohan's already got more than 7 votes, so grace has already begun.
 
Highballed present Beerus is probably above Super Saiyan Blue given they still consider him impressive, but that's all we can reasonably conclude. The gap in power here is certainly wide enough

That being said, grace has begun
 
Sir_Marvulous said:
1. Gohan is way too fast for that to matter
2. Beerus doesn't use the aura unless angry
3. See first point

(also see below; mitigates the things mentioned in 1 and 3)

For one, the only strike that actually weakened him was Gamma 2's suicide attack. For another, Saigo Gohan has been stated to be the strongest, so it can be reasoned that Cell Max's weakening isn't exclusively why the Saiyan could completely tank a strike from it without even flinching and effortlessly obliterate the creature. Thus the stat gap arguments are seemingly valid
Click to expand...
1. He's faster than thought-based paralysis?
2. Beerus's Ultra Instinct will pretty much instantly tell him that he's in danger so he would most likely be bloodlusted immediately, only assuming Gohan'sactually stronger
3. Ultra Instinct skill solves that issue if it even exists in the first place
4. That's true. Cell Max was weakened so badly that he could barely handle Orange Piccolo. This was the only version of Cell Max that Gohan ever fought. Jesus christ. I've said that point like 3 times in this thread alone. Considering the difference between Beerus and a weakened Cell Max, I highly doubt Gohan would be able to handle Beerus with the same level of effort.
 
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