Vizer04
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Gohan Beast vs GoD Candidate Toppo (0-0-0)
- Thread starter Vizer04
- Start date
Eden_Warlock99
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Hakai goo brrrrr
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more combat intelligence
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Depends, if Gohan > SSBE Vegeta (which we don't know for sure), then Gohan should win. However, he would have to learn the hard way how to defend against hakai so he probably ends up getting erased.
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well, anyway it's just my opinion
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And what stop Gohan from just spaming ranged attacks and one shot ? Or even better what stop Gohan from just tanking anything Toppo throws at him with his passive aura alone just like he did to Cell max ? And what stop Gohan from just blitzing anyway ?
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We all know how hax in DB works so I agree, but based on feats Gohan has no EE resistance. Gohan can bypass Hakai if he is > SSBE Vegeta, but Toppo also didn't have killing intent in the ToP so he might be more deadly in a death battle.
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Gohan, who scales above Jiren, Full Power Broly, and Blue Gogeta should be able to casually neg Toppo’s Hakai. Hakai in its energy attack form only EE’s you after it overcomes your durability based on how it’s shown. With Goku, Frieza, and Vegeta being able to either tank or or overpower it. Gohan stomps here if Evolution Vegeta’s aura powered punches and Final Explosion > Toppo’s Hakai. Speed unequalized should also make this a pretty nasty blitz on top of that
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The problem with this matchup is the issue I always with looking at this hax debate.
If Hakai can be negated purely on the basis of power, then no one should have resistance to it. That's a weakness on the part of the hax, not a feat of resistance on any character's part.
If we say that, no, resisting Hakai is a feat that a character has to show, then it doesn't matter how powerful the character is, if they don't have a resistance than they're getting erased.
If Hakai can be negated purely on the basis of power, then no one should have resistance to it. That's a weakness on the part of the hax, not a feat of resistance on any character's part.
If we say that, no, resisting Hakai is a feat that a character has to show, then it doesn't matter how powerful the character is, if they don't have a resistance than they're getting erased.
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He was watching SSJBE Vegeta beating God Toppo. Yes, he does know how to deal with this shit.
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Aside from Gohan seeing how the Vegeta dealt with it, there’s 2 things. 1, Vegeta ultimately ended up overpowering it and Toppo’s strongest attack with Final Explosion, so potent enough energy attacks can get through, and 2.) Gohan Beast is strong enough that his passive aura can block a full on punch from someone like the somewhat weakened Cell Max without even focusing or condensing his aura into a barrier
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Toppo wasn't going to erase anyone, regardless. His Hakai that clapped Frieza and warped the WoV still didn't erase Frieza, just harmed him, and their power gap was very wide. Hakai in the ToP isn't a great argument to use, considering the erasing effects are explicitly banned.
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Still Gohan in a stomp
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and how does that change anything I said again?
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Even if we say the Hakai blasts Vegeta punched away were held back, the energy clash between the Final Explosion and Hakai should’ve been Toppo’s full power. He simply would’ve had to just override and erase Vegeta’s ki to not let himself get overpowered and beaten, but…he was still overpowered and beaten. And we see Toppo erase energy attacks in the ToP
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That’s how I feel personally. The Hakai Beerus used is different from the Hakai everyone else used. The former didn’t interact like a conventional energy attack and just erased, the latter specifically shows that it has to overwhelm your durability first in order to erase you. Even not using Toppo, there’s Frieza and Goku with Sidra’s Hakai ball
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The thing that our profiles don't cover is the sheer difference between variations of Hakai.
When Beerus or Sidra used it, their target just glowed as they were erased. There was no charging, no energy. Their target simply glowed as they were erased, whether they were singular or an AOE effect. No one has ever shown a resistance to variation of Hakai in the Anime.
Toppo's variant looks like when Sidra gave some Destruction Energy to an assassin. That assassin split the energy into at least two orbs (first one he claimed was fake) and Frieza was shown to affect destroy one, resist the other. Based off Toppo throwing out similar attacks, Frieza shouldn't have been able to destroy that second orb...unless it's all about power.
The assassin who was sent to erase Frieza, was given a relatively small amount of Destruction Energy to use. He then split that Energy in half to attack Frieza. Frieza, at full power, could destroy half the Energy and shrugged it off the other half and escape. Yet, when Base Goku was hit with the same Energy, he couldn't escape or powerup and would have been erased if Beerus hadn't saved him.
During the ToP, Golden Frieza fights GoD Toppo and cannot overcome his Destruction Energy, even while Toppo is holding back. That said, Toppo is throwing out much more energy than what was used against Frieza...until Frieza was reverted to base and Toppo used even less Energy to counter Frieza's attacks.
So, even if we say that Sidra (who should be just as strong as Toppo, if not stronger) is more powerful, the amount of power in the Energy he used is less than what Toppo used. Yet, once Vegeta powered up, he was able to counter Toppo's Hakais. Further still, when Toppo used his final Hakai, he charged more energy than ever before and it took Vegeta (who had a power advantage at this point) to using the majority of his energy to overcome that final Hakai.
What this shows me, is that it's all about how much power you have versus how much Destruction Energy is used and if you can surpass a certain threshold, you can over come it. This would explain how Frieza, whose full power is equal to Goku's at the beginning of the ToP, could escape the Energy in his Golden form but Goku couldn't in his base form.
When Beerus or Sidra used it, their target just glowed as they were erased. There was no charging, no energy. Their target simply glowed as they were erased, whether they were singular or an AOE effect. No one has ever shown a resistance to variation of Hakai in the Anime.
Toppo's variant looks like when Sidra gave some Destruction Energy to an assassin. That assassin split the energy into at least two orbs (first one he claimed was fake) and Frieza was shown to affect destroy one, resist the other. Based off Toppo throwing out similar attacks, Frieza shouldn't have been able to destroy that second orb...unless it's all about power.
The assassin who was sent to erase Frieza, was given a relatively small amount of Destruction Energy to use. He then split that Energy in half to attack Frieza. Frieza, at full power, could destroy half the Energy and shrugged it off the other half and escape. Yet, when Base Goku was hit with the same Energy, he couldn't escape or powerup and would have been erased if Beerus hadn't saved him.
During the ToP, Golden Frieza fights GoD Toppo and cannot overcome his Destruction Energy, even while Toppo is holding back. That said, Toppo is throwing out much more energy than what was used against Frieza...until Frieza was reverted to base and Toppo used even less Energy to counter Frieza's attacks.
So, even if we say that Sidra (who should be just as strong as Toppo, if not stronger) is more powerful, the amount of power in the Energy he used is less than what Toppo used. Yet, once Vegeta powered up, he was able to counter Toppo's Hakais. Further still, when Toppo used his final Hakai, he charged more energy than ever before and it took Vegeta (who had a power advantage at this point) to using the majority of his energy to overcome that final Hakai.
What this shows me, is that it's all about how much power you have versus how much Destruction Energy is used and if you can surpass a certain threshold, you can over come it. This would explain how Frieza, whose full power is equal to Goku's at the beginning of the ToP, could escape the Energy in his Golden form but Goku couldn't in his base form.
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At this point, this match should be closed. Gohan was literally watching how Vegeta beat Toppo, by using an attack that was too powerful even for Hakai to erase, something that was directly stated by Vegeta himself. Beast Gohan by scaling is so far above SSJBE Vegeta that it is laughable.
This match is a stomp either way, even if you for some reason think Gohan can't do anything against Toppo here despite the story telling you the opposite.
This match is a stomp either way, even if you for some reason think Gohan can't do anything against Toppo here despite the story telling you the opposite.
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This is an ugly, ugly stomp in Gohan's favor.
1. Gohan Beast vs Cell Max is "the strongest battle in history", which already confirms Gohan Beast is above ToP MUI Goku and LB Jiren, who both scale leagues above the Jiren that stomped SSBE Vegeta who beat GoD Toppo and overpowered his Hakai
2. Even without that, a weakened Cell Max should still be far, FAR above SSJ Broly, who is at least 2.5x SSBE Vegeta, and Gohan curbstomped Cell Max.
1. Gohan Beast vs Cell Max is "the strongest battle in history", which already confirms Gohan Beast is above ToP MUI Goku and LB Jiren, who both scale leagues above the Jiren that stomped SSBE Vegeta who beat GoD Toppo and overpowered his Hakai
2. Even without that, a weakened Cell Max should still be far, FAR above SSJ Broly, who is at least 2.5x SSBE Vegeta, and Gohan curbstomped Cell Max.
Eden_Warlock99
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Nah, it's a Toppo stomp lel
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Based on?
Eden_Warlock99
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Vizer04
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- Thread starter
- #32
Let's wait until the debate on this thread is over. Then we can continue debating on this matchup.
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Which does nothing as proven above
Eden_Warlock99
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It's over. Toppo's EE still works against Gohan
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Toppo’s Hakai energy still has to override Gohan’s ki and durability in order to EE. Unless everyone’s ignoring the fact that Hakai based energy attacks have to override a targets durability or energy potency to EE.
forgetting how he lost to Vegeta?
Magicomethkuon
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I think the other way around would be more fair. Resisting Erasure being part of what the package of Ki Manipulation from Dragon Ball provides when the person is past the tier 2 threshold.
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Again, Toppo was literally not allowed to erase Vegeta. Even if he had beaten out final explosion, he wouldn't have been erased. The durability argument is valid, though. Since base Goku could resist a hakai orb that took Golden Frieza effort, then by scaling Gohan scales beyond Toppo. He still technically hasn't displayed EE resistance though.
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Gohan can bypass his lack of Hakai resistance by surrounding himself with enough ki
Gohan stomps
Gohan stomps
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