- God of War vs The Devil Lance -

[NikHelton]

• Speed Equalized;
• Doppo Orochi- At least 15,25 Kilotons of TNT;
• Kuroki Gensai - 88,5 Kilotons of TNT;
• Both are in character
• Place of battle: Underground Arena.

 

[Seeker]

Should their speed be relative too?

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

Well, to begin, the AP difference is really small actually, if there is any at all. Doppo has a lot of upscaling from the 15ish kiloton feat, pretty much 30 years worth of upscaling from it.

at first glance, it looks like True Seiken kind of ***** with Kuroki given that it has layered resistance to intent based analytical prediction, which is what Kuroki mainly relies on. Also Doppo seems to be more martially complex, ngl.

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

Imma bump here cause I find the match interesting

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

Bump

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Doppo definitely has the wider martial arts arsenal. Though a lot of Doppo's more lethal techniques are going to be at least partially nullified by Kuroki's incredibly durable bones and joints. I'd also argue he'd have the edge in endurance as well: he's likely going to be able to keep fighting, even after being pierced by the Devil's Lance.

As mentioned Bodhisattva Fist should bypass the intent sensing of Pre Initiative. However, Kuroki has experience dealing with moves he can't predict, and similarly skilled characters have shown they can quickly develop strategies to mitigate being unable to use PI, so it shouldn't really be a deciding factor here.

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

As mentioned Bodhisattva Fist should bypass the intent sensing of Pre Initiative. However, Kuroki has experience dealing with moves he can't predict, and similarly skilled characters have shown they can quickly develop strategies to mitigate being unable to use PI, so it shouldn't really be a deciding factor here.

So, what advantages do you think Kuroki has? Doppo as for now should have endurance, techniques, his own prediction and the resistance he has against Kuroki's prediction.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Kuroki doesn't strictly need to rely on intent to predict someone's movements. Even if he masks his bloodlust or thoughts, Kuroki can still either recognize the motion of his joints, tendons, and eye movements, or work out the timing of his opponent's movements. So even if he can't directly sense the intent of Orochi's actions, nothing is stopping him from using regular foresight.

Both of them have "lethal" moves, but Kuroki is capable of Using his Devil's Lance the instant he is struck, even against characters who surpass him in predictive ability and overall skill. The moment Doppo lands a hit, it's entirely possible Kuroki would already be stabbing him in a vital area.

I would also argue that, while Kuroki doesn't have the sheer number of striking techniques that Doppo has, his techniques will naturally hit harder due to the fact that he damages the organs with each blow.

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

Kuroki doesn't strictly need to rely on intent to predict someone's movements. Even if he masks his bloodlust or thoughts, Kuroki can still either recognize the motion of his joints, tendons, and eye movements, or work out the timing of his opponent's movements. So even if he can't directly sense the intent of Orochi's actions, nothing is stopping him from using regular foresight.

Doppo has been shown capable of resisting Baki's predictions, which includes muscle reading, as well as several other forms of prediction. Just to give an example of one, he is capable of instinctively reading the countless force lines at play in a fight, despite the already unpredictable flow of power, in order to make the best move. Also, I would argue that Doppo's prediction is better than regular foresight given how it allows him to fight as normally, while having all five of his senses seales in an illusion, and had to fight against an opponent with endless variations in his style and already a great amount of unpredictability, based only on him imagining how the fight should go.

Both of them have "lethal" moves, but Kuroki is capable of Using his Devil's Lance the instant he is struck, even against characters who surpass him in predictive ability and overall skill. The moment Doppo lands a hit, it's entirely possible Kuroki would already be stabbing him in a vital area.

Doppo's Maebu stance works quite well as a counter for this. It's like an iron wall defense where if you enter the range or Seikukken, you get trapped and are placed in an overwhelming disadvantage. This thing works against Yujiro's Udonde, which is a style centered in instinctively counter-attacking whoever enter your range, targeting their blindspots. It also implements Seikukken based predictions btw.

I would also argue that, while Kuroki doesn't have the sheer number of striking techniques, his techniques will naturally hit harder due to the fact that he damages the organs with each blow.

It should be noted that Doppo also has several techniques with dura neg. I believe Doppo should have the advantage if it came down to dura neg techniques since his stamina advantage would allow him to tank these attacks more than Kuroki is able.

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

Bump

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Doppo has been shown capable of resisting Baki's predictions, which includes muscle reading, as well as several other forms of prediction. Just to give an example of one, he is capable of instinctively reading the countless force lines at play in a fight, despite the already unpredictable flow of power, in order to make the best move. Also, I would argue that Doppo's prediction is better than regular foresight given how it allows him to fight as normally, while having all five of his senses seales in an illusion, and had to fight against an opponent with endless variations in his style and already a great amount of unpredictability, based only on him imagining how the fight should go.

Kuroki has shown that he can grow to predict fighters who resist his standard predictions. Agito's Formless is specifically stated to be an everchanging, unpredictable fighting style, which adapts itself to counter any strategy, yet Kuroki figured it out in mere moments during their fight. his foresight also scales far above Cosmos, someone who could easily predict Swimming Swallow despite it being explicitly unpredictable, due to its trajectory. Kuroki managed to accomplish a similar feat against Kiryu, deflecting his Swimming Swallow X Rakshasha Palm without even needing to use motionless/foresight. Skilled enough martial artists can also react to attacks faster than themselves by sensing the air flow it creates, something Orochi could never truly obscure.

While Doppo's predictions are impressive, Kuroki's is rather absurd as well. Characters with far less skill in foresight than him can instantly deduce the best move in any given situation, and predict moves 100s of steps in advance. As well as being able to predict moves that are explicitly faster than his own perception.

Doppo's Maebu stance works quite well as a counter for this. It's like an iron wall defense where if you enter the range or Seikukken, you get trapped and are placed in an overwhelming disadvantage. This thing works against Yujiro's Udonde, which is a style centered in instinctively counter-attacking whoever enter your range, targeting their blindspots. It also implements Seikukken based predictions btw.

If they both counterattack at once then Kuroki would likely win the exchange. Even if they are comparable to each other, the Devil Lance is explicitly lethal even to characters that are comparable to Kuroki in strength. If he manages to land it in a vital area, then even with Orochi's insane endurance, he will likely be weakened.

Targeting blindspots also isn't anything Kuroki would have trouble with either. Master martial artists in kengan eliminate their blind spots by studying their opponents attack patterns, and taking advantage of the limited ways in which a person can strike, skilled enough martial artists in kengan can also feel attacks coming in their blindspot.

It should be noted that Doppo also has several techniques with dura neg. I believe Doppo should have the advantage if it came down to dura neg techniques since his stamina advantage would allow him to tank these attacks more than Kuroki is able.

While Doppo does possess dura neg techniques, it should be noted that techniques that would target joints or the bone structure would be less effective against Kuroki due to his bone training, which could prove troublesome to bypass.