God of Highschool's High 5-A Ratings are bunk.

[SeijiSetto]

What?
Alright. Currently a couple characters are rated High 5-A [48.07 Ronnatons] off Mori surviving a planetary explosion.
That's the thing, though - he didn't. Not entirely, anyway, which is the entire point.

Why not?
Easiest debunk is just that he didn't tank the full explosion. My rough, not-yet-approved calc put the energy he actually tanked at 6-B+. don't worry i'm not suggesting he gets nerfed to country level (though that would be easier to make matches for)
The explosion was actually caused by a buncha bombs over the surface of the planet [ch160] (and it then, weirdly enough, proceeded to explode from the inside out, but eh), and only 2 people interact with them directly.

Spoiler: Mori...

• shoves the biggest, central one away with Yeoui. [ch160] Not related to explosive potency.
• The big one then splits into many smaller ones, and Mori suspends them in the air with his cloud, Geundoowun. [ch161] Not related to explosive potency.
• Mori is unable to keep them suspended, and they start falling, at which point- [ch161]

Spoiler: Sujin...

• uses her power [ch161] to briefly hold them off the ground. [ch161] Not potency-related.
• Then they touch the ground and "explode". [ch161]

There's only one event directly related to how powerful the bombs are, and it's here - Sujin uses her ability that explicitly controls the laws of physics [ch162] and expands her range to cover the entire planet [ch162] and this reduces the explosion's potency.
It's never stated to what degree they're reduced by, nor can it be inferred beyond "strong enough to kill everyone there, including the people who called in the bomb" which, y'know, a bomb would be pretty useless if it couldn't kill the people you wanted to kill - all the information we're given is that "Sujin held off the planet blowing up for an extended period of time". Long enough for her and Mori to fight, her to lose [ch165], pass out, wake up, and THEN it finally blew up.

What do they scale to instead?
Baseline 5-B probably. Ardun was gonna "banish [the planet] from the world" [ch152] and it was also stated that if it hit, [the planet] would shatter into pieces. I will be the first to note that Yongje, the artist, is hot ass at drawing shots with curvature in them (see: someone probably like 5'5 being just about visible while on the moon's surface [ch283]), so take this as very weak supporting evidence, but the hammer Ardun was gonna use to break the planet is (visible against) (its size), and even when BLOCKED, still released gigantic shockwaves. [ch152]

Who would scale?

Spoiler: Characters

Ardun, he's the one with the "banish this planet" and "shatter to pieces" statements.
All three Crown Princes (collectively Ardun [rock guy, middle], Lot [ice guy, right] and Jwala [lava guy, left]) should be somewhat relative as they were designated Deities of Fight by Okhwang. [ch156].

Both Base Mori and MK Mori, since base Mori (could harm) Ardun with a (triple kick) [ch156], and his MK mode could take hits and harm him. [ch155]. It's a marginal amp.

Sujin Lee, both in base and with her Pandora Borrowed Power, for fighting evenly with base Mori [ch164] and Ardun [ch152] respectively.
She could also make Jwala bleed with a kick. [ch150]

Seungcheol Baek w/ Uma's power (fought) (Lot) [ch157] and damaged Jwala with a swing of Pacho. [ch150]

Ilpyo Park w/ Nine-Tailed Fox (can) [ch151] (damage Jwala). [ch150]

Base Ahan Dan, as her borrowed power is Lot. [ch312]

Mori Jung for <LITERALLY> [ch326] shitstomping [ch324] Ahan (at full power, she took medicine that specifically let her go all out) even after she summoned all 3 princes [ch325] - he upscales a lot.
Profiles are old so it's not clear whether Ahan summoning all 3 is just a massive unquantifiable amp or a 3x multiplier, but I personally don't care. I'll let someone else pick.

Mori Dan for fighting somewhat evenly with Jung [ch328] (albeit being weaker) in base, and then matching and surpassing him in his Mori Jin form. [ch330]

TL;DR EL GRANDE
no reason for anyone to scale to the full explosive yield of the bombs.

the person who summoned them implies they'd have killed him too.

only two people do anything to the explosion.
one of them tanks far less than the full yield due to inverse square law.
the other used physics manip to delay the explosion which - to my knowledge - shouldn't be scaleable to AP, maybe dura.
scale 'em to baseline 5-B instead cuz there's statements of planet destruction and also planetary shockwaves from attacks that didn't even land properly.

Agree: (2:2) @KingNanaya, @Deagonx, @azontr, @LephyrTheRevanchist
Neutral: (0:0)
Disagree: (0:0)
(bold is for evaluating staff votes)

 

[KingNanaya]

seems cool

 

[Deagonx]

This seems logical, but I am open to what the potential counter-argument would be.

 

[SeijiSetto]

This seems logical, but I am open to what the potential counter-argument would be.

can i put you in neutral for now then?

 

[Deagonx]

can i put you in neutral for now then?

You can put me in agree for now, just know that I may change my mind depending on what is said later.

 

[DMUA]

I will be the first to note that Yongje, the artist, is hot ass at drawing shots with curvature in them (see: someone probably like 5'5 being just about visible while on the moon's surface [ch283]),

Honestly, and I know there's not much real evidence for me to press this, but I always felt that this was a planetoid rather than a full planet with the consistency of the odd curvature

Like, we get a visual that the giant whale that nephilim are throwing swords from is around the cloud layer, then we get the curvature shot with the hammer where you can see the whale still among the clouds, then we get an orbital shot with the whale, still surrounded by clouds (none of which I can grab screenshots of because I'm on mobile, but I'll probably do so when I get home)

It's not like this is Earth so it's not obligated to be as large as we think by default

 

[SeijiSetto]

Honestly, and I know there's not much real evidence for me to press this, but I always felt that this was a planetoid rather than a full planet with the consistency of the odd curvature

Like, we get a visual that the giant whale that nephilim are throwing swords from is around the cloud layer, then we get the curvature shot with the hammer where you can see the whale still among the clouds, then we get an orbital shot with the whale, still surrounded by clouds (none of which I can grab screenshots of because I'm on mobile, but I'll probably do so when I get home)

It's not like this is Earth so it's not obligated to be as large as we think by default

at the same time, it's still just depicted incredibly inconsistency, hence why i only mentioned it in the OP with the preface that "yeah this is REALLY weak supporting evidence but just so i have said it".

sometimes ilpyo (5'9 btw) is visible to the planet's size. [ch151]
sometimes the hammer is.
sometimes that same hammer ISN'T visible to curvature, and mountains and spikes seen in the background are all seemingly parallel. [ch152]
sometimes yeoui is depicted comparable in thickness to mori and no curvature is seen, [ch153] but is simultaneously thick enough to be seen from space with curvature.

i'm happy to remove the point from the OP, i did acknowledge that it was shaky cuz' yongje (the artist) is consistently dogshit at this perspective and the idea of "consistency" for anything larger than a city is a completely foreign concept, but since there's no way to actually know for sure how big oraeguk is, i think the assumption should be the default - earth-sized.

 

[DavidTPPM]

i'm happy to remove the point from the OP, i did acknowledge that it was shaky cuz' yongje (the artist) is consistently dogshit at this perspective and the idea of "consistency" for anything larger than a city is a completely foreign concept, but since there's no way to actually know for sure how big oraeguk is, i think the assumption should be the default - earth-sized.

Oraeguk was created when separating monsters from humans so they don't fight each other (since the stronger monsters kept attacking the weaker humans). Since there was at least almost 2x the amount of monsters as there is humans currently on earth (like 14 billion iirc), I think it's pretty logical to say they wouldn't be satisfied with anything less than an earth sized planet.

Arguing off of the drawn size is probably not going to work since it's so inconsistent. We once had a star sized Oraeguk calc accepted here and you can probably argue it's massive given that these massive cities surrounded by forests are completely invisible in all shots of the whole planet.

Mind you, one of these forests is about 1000 kilometers wide. Yet we can't see any forests, monkey cities, cow cities, or anything like that. Earth sized makes the most sense from a lore perspective and the shown size is too inconsistent to use.

 

[DavidTPPM]

My question is, isn't there few supporting calcs for 5-A? Like the Unknown one. You could probably argue that the people who scale to the mars throw should scale relatively to the people who scale to the Oraeguk explosion rn. Since the 3 natak brothers are stated to be on par with the heavenly realm gods.

 

[SeijiSetto]

My question is, isn't there few supporting calcs for 5-A? Like the Unknown one.

that formula's not used anymore on vsbw so no that isn't a supporting calc

You could probably argue that the people who scale to the mars throw should scale relatively to the people who scale to the Oraeguk explosion rn. Since the 3 natak brothers are stated to be on par with the heavenly realm gods.

idunno if this makes sense.
while mori was alone in the sage realm after sending Hui away he trained his ASS off, that's how he was able to do the 250,000x Jeahbongchim.

in this time he obviously would have gotten far stronger, and so him comparing people from before his training to after is just a dumb statement IMO, because it implies either:
- he didn't get any stronger between the adventure arc and pre-ragnarok, and so Ardun is relative to the heavenly realm gods. this isn't true since we know he trained extensively to use higher jeahbongchim multipliers and so would have gotten far stronger. (see: using 190,000x and passing out for weeks [i think? i will grab scans later] from the rebound)
OR
- he was somehow fighting opponents unbelievably above his own level in terms of stats. this one also isn't true since he's shown relative to ardun and lot almost stabbed him if seungcheol didn't step in, both can harm each other (although obviously ardun's barbadium body makes his dura far higher)

if both conclusions from the original statement form contradictions then that means the original statement can't be true.

 

[PowerToScale]

I will write my thoughts on the scaling a bit later.

 

[DavidTPPM]

that formula's not used anymore on vsbw so no that isn't a supporting calc

I must have missed that, my bad. Ig it needs to be recalced with a proper formula or something.

idunno if this makes sense.
while mori was alone in the sage realm after sending Hui away he trained his ASS off, that's how he was able to do the 250,000x Jeahbongchim.

Yeah but the heavenly realm gods in general shouldn't scale to Mori at all. We see Mori completely obliterate them several times. while nerfed through clones and HEAVILY holding back.

With just a 250000x boost he completely obliterated over 2 quintillion phase 1 Satan clones, meaning his AP was like billions of times superior to phase 1 Satan. After forcing him to use phase 3 + jeahbongchim + absorb suns corona, he still casually overpowered him and sliced his body. And even phase 1 Satan is superior to other gods. So basically

post training Mori >>> phase 3 Satan >>> phase 2 Satan >>> other gods ~ natak bros

There shouldn't be any inconsistencies when you think about how Mori was kinda relative to Ardun in the adventure arc but completely bodied the owners in pre-ragnarok and then all of the gods in ragnarok

 

[DavidTPPM]

Actually idk if my yapping is actually really all that related to the CRT since it's more so about upscaling the natak bros to ragnarok feats rather than the Oraeguk calc itself

 

[SeijiSetto]

Actually idk if my yapping is actually really all that related to the CRT since it's more so about upscaling the natak bros to ragnarok feats rather than the Oraeguk calc itself

if you wanna make one later to upscale natakchads feel free to, i'll even help, but let this CRT pass first. one thing at a time.

 

[eibwen]

I dont get it, the explosion was caused by some bomd, and then what? the planet still explode, mori is still falls in there, and in the chapter 165 we can see that there were no bomd anywhere

which refer to the fact that the bomd had already droped in , making all the enviroment thingy, any mori still falls in there anyway
Its not like there were multiple explosion making up for one big picture

 

[SeijiSetto]

With just a 250000x boost he completely obliterated over 2 quintillion phase 1 Satan clones, meaning his AP was like billions of times superior to phase 1 Satan.

this just isn't true, for the record.
if you can kill someone in one hit, obliterating quintillions is just a matter of range - you don't need to be any stronger, you just need wider AOE.

 

[eibwen]

this just isn't true, for the record.
if you can kill someone in one hit, obliterating quintillions is just a matter of range - you don't need to be any stronger, you just need wider AOE.

that range coming from an after-math force of a kick tho

 

[SeijiSetto]

that range coming from an after-math force from a kick tho

yup. but the shockwave is the desired effect, think of wave of blue dragon or kick of double dragon. you pretty much NEVER see Daewi or Mori actually hitting anyone with their arm or leg during those, because the desired effect is to hit them with the shockwave.

but even then, i'm not talking about hwechooks. please stay on topic to the OP.

 

[DavidTPPM]

this just isn't true, for the record.
if you can kill someone in one hit, obliterating quintillions is just a matter of range - you don't need to be any stronger, you just need wider AOE.

That's... Not how that works tho...
That's like saying that destroying quintillions of stars is still just a star level feat.

To destroy a rock you need X power, to destroy 10 rocks you need 10*X power. And that's before taking the spread of the energy so it's actually >10*X.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Video games really confused tf out of peoples perspective of how wide range physical attacks work.

 

[Deagonx]

@DavidTPPM Do not mock your debate opponent like this:

That's... Not how that works tho...

Video games really confused tf out of peoples perspective of how wide range physical attacks work.

It is not helpful to the discussion.

 

[azontr]

Setto already harassed me about this thread off-site so obviously I agree with everything.

 

[SeijiSetto]

That's... Not how that works tho...
That's like saying that destroying quintillions of stars is still just a star level feat.

To destroy a rock you need X power, to destroy 10 rocks you need 10*X power. And that's before taking the spread of the energy so it's actually >10*X.

if you wanna talk about this in another CRT then feel free cuz i'm happy to, but y'know
not relevant here.

 

[PowerToScale]

This seems simple enough, ultimately it doesn't even matter as the Mori who survived the feat was a base, extremely tired and weakened Mori who was at deaths door, who significantly struggling to stand and stay conscious. Either way the feat never represented, his true strength for his base level. We can look at the feats he does have to determine his level of power:

Spoiler: Mori Feats

Mori was able to compete with and hurt Ardun in his MK mode, albeit wasn't able to directly crack the skin as it’s made out of Bardium and took a few hits in the same place to crack it. At the end of the fight Mori loses his MK mode but is still able to damage and finish him in the end. This isn't unusual as like most GoH characters have accelerated development and reactive evolution, and isn't the first time he has made huge jumps, such as him as Mori Dan who had a worse body and martially as well.

Spoiler: Ardun Feats

As mentioned above. Ardun was gonna "banish [the planet] from the world" [ch152] and it was also stated that if it hit, [the planet] would shatter into pieces". This same attack later in the series is also regarded as a planet destroyer. Ardun has more impressive feats such as cracking the Yeoui beneath his feet and cracking/damaging it while fighting Mori, this is the real Yeoui as its the same one with the chipped tip that he left after use the Lightning blade. Him damaging the Yeoui is something Mori reminisces about when comparing the three first realm gods (Phase 2) in terms of power against him, who he believes he is stronger than them. Mori has directly fought both and is able to compare them.

Spoiler: Three Gods Feats

The current feats they have are hurting a tired and nerfed Via clones Mori who complete destroys them once limiting the amount of clones to 1/3 of there size. They where comparable to a casual holding back Satan that fought Daewi. This statement was made by Daewi himself. The same Daewi pushes Jupiter back with he help of Hui

The scaling chain (following the current values) would be:

Mori(Refreshed)/Serious Satan(Phase 2)[High 4-C] > Serious Satan(Phase 1) [4-C]> Mori Rag(1/3 clones) > Ardun~Mori Arc 3(Base: Tired/injured) >3 Gods(Phase 2)~Mori Rag(Tired/Full Clones) > 3 Gods(Phase 1)~Satan(Phase 1/casual)[4-C]~Daewi(Kings eye)[4-C]

While it may look confusing, such as Arc 3 base above Rag Mori with clones, Mori can be weakened to lower levels in different fights. The levels of tiredness/weakenedness would obviously limit a person to different degrees, this is the same in real life. Hence, why we wouldn't rate them on their tired/weakened states. So no, Mori Arc 3 isn't stronger than Rag, just that Rag Mori(Tired/full clones) is more weakened and tired than himself from Arc 3 after Ardun. Which he fixes as rests up before fighting Satan.

Unironic Upgarde!?! No, I was planning this but this CRT is as good as any time since it relates to it. There are some other changes to the series that would need to be made:

Spoiler: Changes

The Yeoui's durability would need to be changed to varies. This is pretty self explanatory, like its AP and speed, its durability would also depend on the user as seen when Mori gets stronger so do the Yeoui's as well, and the same with his other weapons.

To sum this up, Ardun would be scaling above the 3 gods(Phase 2), who are comparable to a casual Satan and Daewi, who has a 4-C feat, in their Phase 1 forms. This in turn would scale Mori at the time as for being comparable to him(Rating: 4-C), and Ardun hurting him and damaging the Yeoui's would be supporting as the Yeoui's themselves have shown to be at the users general level and increase with them (Main example fight against Mubong). Thanks to reactive evolution and advance development that GoH characters have, Mori would go from comparable in MK mode to being able to hurt him in base at the end of the fight, which is consistent with the powercreeps GoH loves to do. Satan would also be bumped up to at least 4-C.

 

[Yeolban]

Base Ahan Dan, as her borrowed power is Lot. [ch312]

me when vsbw scales the power borrower to the power lender

i'm happy to remove the point from the OP, i did acknowledge that it was shaky cuz' yongje (the artist) is consistently dogshit at this perspective and the idea of "consistency" for anything larger than a city is a completely foreign concept

that one panel where nirvana mori's wings are larger than the entire earth I won't complain tho that looked hot


Also I'll wait for more arguments because why not

 

[azontr]

me when vsbw scales the power borrower to the power lender

It's dumb but nobody wants to fix it (yet).

 

[BoastJr]

I agree

 

[eibwen]

I dont get it, the explosion was caused by some bomd, and then what? the planet still explode, mori is still falls in there, and in the chapter 165 we can see that there were no bomd anywhere

which refer to the fact that the bomd had already droped in , making all the enviroment thingy, any mori still falls in there anyway
Its not like there were multiple explosion making up for one big picture

somehow my point still didnt get any reply....

 

[SeijiSetto]

somehow my point still didnt get any reply....

i don't exactly understand your question.

snip

could i ask you to hold this until AFTER this one is passed? cuz nobody wanted to do anything about the ratings until i decided to at which point suddenly there's grounds for upgrades.
if you want to later, feel free, but let me focus on JUST removing the bullshit ratings first.

 

[DavidTPPM]

could i ask you to hold this until AFTER this one is passed? cuz nobody wanted to do anything about the ratings until i decided to at which point suddenly there's grounds for upgrades.
if you want to later, feel free, but let me focus on JUST removing the bullshit ratings first.

Wouldn't it be better to do all of it in one CRT? Remove the BS ratings and replace them with proper ones and stuff. Without making the profiles even more wrong for some time. (i genuinely don't know )

 

[PowerToScale]

i don't exactly understand your question.


could i ask you to hold this until AFTER this one is passed? cuz nobody wanted to do anything about the ratings until i decided to at which point suddenly there's grounds for upgrades.
if you want to later, feel free, but let me focus on JUST removing the bullshit ratings first.

I feel it would be better to do it now. Everyone seems to agree with the removal of the old calc, seems pretty simple. With the proposed changes we can just update them accordingly (If everything is fine) with it. I feel having multiple would CRTs would just make it unnecessary when this all relates to the one thing.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Without making the profiles even more wrong for some time. (i genuinely don't know )

well i mean apparently everyone was fine leaving them as they were until i did something about it

Spoiler: Ardun Feats

As mentioned above. Ardun was gonna "banish [the planet] from the world" [ch152] and it was also stated that if it hit, [the planet] would shatter into pieces". This same attack later in the series is also regarded as a planet destroyer. Ardun has more impressive feats such as cracking the Yeoui beneath his feet and cracking/damaging it while fighting Mori, this is the real Yeoui as its the same one with the chipped tip that he left after use the Lightning blade. Him damaging the Yeoui is something Mori reminisces about when comparing the three first realm gods (Phase 2) in terms of power against him, who he believes he is stronger than them. Mori has directly fought both and is able to compare them.

the scan you post with mori comparing them directly references Ardun leaving a dent in it [ch156], i.e the lightning blade. the same lightning blade that made jwala and lot [ch156] - who are relative to him - surprised. the lightning blade is explicitly above his normal physicals, just summoning it seemingly skinned the hand that grabbed it (albeit they're back to normal after) (mind you, he tanked geundoowun's lightning earlier [ch153]), and it cut through Mori like hot butter. he was only able to stop it by stopping Ardun's hand.

ALL THIS IS TO SAY
ardun should not scale to the lightning blade's potency, it would just be far higher than his own for being able to cut yeoui - which is what's currently accepted.
i also think the cracking of Yeoui should be treated as an outlier, similar to how satan snapping yeoui into two pieces after x250k jeahbongchim is treated on his profile.

Note: Satan breaking Yeoui in half was done after Mori had expanded an immense amount of power to kill the Gods. It was even noted by Mori that the Gourd cracked and shattered due to over-usage when he used it, Yeoui, and Geundoowun to perform the former feat. As such, Satan does not scale to the full durability of Yeoui.

this would be like... one of 2 times the real Yeoui has been damaged by opponents below 4-B, the other being satan who is explicitly below 4-B for getting murdershitstompvaporized by 4-B mori's hwechook.

While it may look confusing, such as Arc 3 base above Rag Mori with clones, Mori can be weakened to lower levels in different fights. The levels of tiredness/weakenedness would obviously limit a person to different degrees, this is the same in real life. Hence, why we wouldn't rate them on their tired/weakened states. So no, Mori Arc 3 isn't stronger than Rag, just that Rag Mori(Tired/full clones) is more weakened and tired than himself from Arc 3 after Ardun. Which he fixes as rests up before fighting Satan.

HEAVILY disagree with this.

your point about people being weaker when tired is valid (if i disagreed with that i would be legitimately delusional) but you're suggesting that mori, who went from passing out for 2-3 weeks from using jeahbongchim in MK mode [ch292], through training "until his memories went foggy" [ch292] to being able use x250k [ch292] and handle the rebound without nearly fvcking dying like he used to [ch292]... is somehow so impossibly tired and fatigued that he's WEAKER than he was before this training?

you yourself acknowledged that GoH characters have goofy RE and AD, so it makes sense that Mori post-jeahbongchim training should be literally incomparable to how strong he was beforehand.

and even in regards to stamina, Mori's BEEN a damage sponge. see: getting his leg broken and continuing to throw kicks on it [ch34], tanking wave of blue dragon and continuing to fight with his injuries [ch35] TWICE [ch38], tanking 2x Jeahbongchim's rebound [ch105], basically the entire Jegal fight [ch106], et cetera.
i'm sure you get my point - Ragnarok Mori, even after the fatigue and injuries he got from fighting through the 7 owners, should NOT have been - by any stretch of the imagination - weaker than his pre-250k training arc 3 self.

IN ADDITION.
you argue that Ragnarok Mori goes from weaker than his Arc 3 self to Satan level by resting, but he rested for seconds at best. (same) (******') (chapter). [ch289]
are you saying he apparently healed from such crippling, stat-reducing injuries in that brief of a time?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Seiji does seem to make more sense to me.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Seiji does seem to make more sense to me.

can I count your vote as an agree?

i'm not in any rush to get this closed or anything so Power can still respond if he wants, i just wanna make sure everyone's votes are accounted for and i don't miss any

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

can I count your vote as an agree?

i'm not in any rush to get this closed or anything so Power can still respond if he wants, i just wanna make sure everyone's votes are accounted for and i don't miss any

Yeh

 

[PowerToScale]

The scan you post with mori comparing them directly references Ardun leaving a dent in it [ch156], i.e the lightning blade. the same lightning blade that made jwala and lot [ch156] - who are relative to him - surprised. the lightning blade is explicitly above his normal physicals, just summoning it seemingly skinned the hand that grabbed it (albeit they're back to normal after) (mind you, he tanked geundoowun's lightning earlier [ch153]), and it cut through Mori like hot butter. he was only able to stop it by stopping Ardun's hand.

ALL THIS IS TO SAY
ardun should not scale to the lightning blade's potency, it would just be far higher than his own for being able to cut yeoui - which is what's currently accepted.

This my fault for not conveying it properly. Lightning Blade was never going to go down in rating, it would still be a "Higher with lightning Blade" rating, that was never going to change. In terms of the Mori saying dent, I don't believe it is specifically referring to the cut, as that's not a dent its a slicing wound/damage, in fact the damage down prior is more in line with it being a dent, not only that but when Mori highlights the fact he made it dent it doesn't even show the side that was the tip cut. So it wouldn't be referring to him using the lightning blade specifically. Ardun still damaged the Yeoui (Which 3 gods couldn't) and Mori regards him as stronger

Even going with the idea the dent meant the cut, it wouldn't make since if it was singular move. It would be like calling Muhamad Ali stronger if he pulled a nuke at the last minute.

Ardun would: At least 4-C (Stronger than the 3 gods(Phase 2) ...etc), Higher with L.B (Easily cut Yeoui)

ALL THIS IS TO SAY
ardun should not scale to the lightning blade's potency, it would just be far higher than his own for being able to cut yeoui - which is what's currently accepted.
i also think the cracking of Yeoui should be treated as an outlier, similar to how satan snapping yeoui into two pieces after x250k jeahbongchim is treated on his profile.

Note: Satan breaking Yeoui in half was done after Mori had expanded an immense amount of power to kill the Gods. It was even noted by Mori that the Gourd cracked and shattered due to over-usage when he used it, Yeoui, and Geundoowun to perform the former feat. As such, Satan does not scale to the full durability of Yeoui.

this would be like... one of 2 times the real Yeoui has been damaged by opponents below 4-B, the other being satan who is explicitly below 4-B for getting murdershitstompvaporized by 4-B mori's hwechook.

Had to do a little digging to find this, it seems to applied to Satan's page in 2021. However, looking back at the CRTs, I am unable to find where this was said or accepted. Not only is this supposedly part of a scaling that has changed over the years, but is also wrong. The Yeoui wasn't destroyed because of the three gods blast doing something to it, but because Satan literally amped himself x52 stronger, and broke. We know the Gourd was damaged because it was stated, however, the Yeoui was not, it was simply broken by Satan(x52) because he was far stronger. This isn't an outlier or inconsistent. This should be removed. This was something I brought up as well regarding Yeoui being 4-B:

There are some other changes to the series that would need to be made:

Spoiler: Changes

The Yeoui's durability would need to be changed to varies. This is pretty self explanatory, like its AP and speed, its durability would also depend on the user as seen when Mori gets stronger so do the Yeoui's as well, and the same with his other weapons.

HEAVILY disagree with this.

your point about people being weaker when tired is valid (if i disagreed with that i would be legitimately delusional) but you're suggesting that mori, who went from passing out for 2-3 weeks from using jeahbongchim in MK mode [ch292], through training "until his memories went foggy" [ch292] to being able use x250k [ch292] and handle the rebound without nearly fvcking dying like he used to [ch292]... is somehow so impossibly tired and fatigued that he's WEAKER than he was before this training?

you yourself acknowledged that GoH characters have goofy RE and AD, so it makes sense that Mori post-jeahbongchim training should be literally incomparable to how strong he was beforehand.

I missed some things in the original post but I'll explain here. You're missing an aspect to my argument and only focusing on the "him being tired" part. Mori comes into the fight tired from fighting in the tower breaking through each floor and killing the apostle/nephlim, on top of that he also has unleashed him clones which are taking and even further amount of strength, he begins to fight the gods(Phase 1) and is holding his own but is relative, we get an internal monolog where Mori is now holding back to save strength to fight Satan, on top of that he gets more damage and poisoned fighting them. So Mori isn't simply just tired at this point, he tired, strength is burdened by clones, holding back to save strength, get further injuries and poison. Mori cuts back his clones to 1/3 of the amount and proceeds to destroy the gods(Phase 2).

Yeah is incomparable thanks to his RE and AD, we see that when he was when he is fighting Satan seriously and not burdened by things limiting, like the things mentioned. That's why when he takes the time to rest and heal before fighting Satan, he is much stronger than before.

and even in regards to stamina, Mori's BEEN a damage sponge. see: getting his leg broken and continuing to throw kicks on it [ch34], tanking wave of blue dragon and continuing to fight with his injuries [ch35] TWICE [ch38], tanking 2x Jeahbongchim's rebound [ch105], basically the entire Jegal fight [ch106], et cetera.
i'm sure you get my point - Ragnarok Mori, even after the fatigue and injuries he got from fighting through the 7 owners, should NOT have been - by any stretch of the imagination - weaker than his pre-250k training arc 3 self.

Kinda explained above with some of the things I missed. But More than just tired, but injured, holding back, clones also burdening his strength, plus poison, using a lot of energy to maintain his state. Mori is a damage sponge, hence why he is able to take the beatings in his state and push through, but doesn't mean he doesn't get weaker. Also the first one is him just pinning down Mori's foot not breaking and the Blue dragon are just deep skin cuts.

IN ADDITION.
you argue that Ragnarok Mori goes from weaker than his Arc 3 self to Satan level by resting, but he rested for seconds at best. (same) (******') (chapter). [ch289]
are you saying he apparently healed from such crippling, stat-reducing injuries in that brief of a time?

Yes. it would be more so a minute and Mori has been able to quickly recover before. he also has regeneration and in his Incomplete monkey king form he was able to heal from the wounds inflicted by Taek:

• Regeneration (Low-Mid - Was pierced several times by Taek Jegal and even pierced through his torso several times,[38] but regenerated instantly[39] after awakening as the Monkey King)

he was also low on strength and barely able to nudge the Yeoui around. Furthermore in the same fight, Mori goes from not being able to wield and control properly Yeoui while fighting Taek, to sitting down for near less than a minute to being able to hold and wield Yeoui in another fight straight after. What can I say, Mori jin recover insane, him recovering before satan isn't out of the ordinary.

Tl;dr:
-Lightning Blade still has a "higher" rating. My miscommunication on that.
-The note for Satan comes from a unknown origin from a different scaling from 2 years ago and is wrong about what has happened, it should be removed. The durability for Yeoui should also be changed to varies for the reasons above.
-Mori is weaker because of many factors and not just tired, He is tired, injured, clones consume strength, holding back to save some for Satan. With additon injuries and poison from the fight. We see him get stronger after limiting the clones.
-Mori has insane recover.

Scaling chain:
Serious and rested Mori/Serious Satan(Phase 2)[High 4-C] >>> Serious Satan(Phase 1)[At least 4-C+] >> Mori(tired, injured, 1/3 clones, poisoned, conversing strength) >> Ardun[At least 4-C] >> 3Gods(Phase 2)[At least 4-C] > Moritired, injured, full clones, poisoned, conversing strength)~3Gods(Phase 1)[4-C]

 

[DavidTPPM]

One thing I'll note is that Mori suppressing himself in ragnarok + the clone and energy nerf he had against the gods was INSANE.
Just think about it like this. We see suppressed Satan ~ Daewi and according to Daewi every other god was as strong as that Satan. Then Satan casually uses planet throw so strong Daewi needs Huis help to push it off. Rested Mori completely obliterates phase 3 sun amped corona absorbed Satan. So basically

Rested Mori > sun amped corona amped phase 3 Satan > phase 3 Satan > phase 2 Satan > phase 1 serious Satan > phase 1 casual Satan > Daewi ~ suppressed Satan ~ 1st realm gods ~ clone nerfed fatigued suppressed Mori.

So it's definitely possible that Mori did drop to near his adventure arc levels due to the nerfs. Furthermore, we have seen him one shot people on this level before.

Mori completely bodied the owners in pre-ragnarok

 

[DavidTPPM]

So any ragnarok Mori ~ 1st realm gods scaling that contradicts Ardun scaling to them shouldn't actually contradict anything because Mori was nerfed to ridiculous levels

 

[SeijiSetto]

just so it's said - not ignoring this thread, been a little busy. will get a post out soon.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Had to do a little digging to find this, it seems to applied to Satan's page in 2021. However, looking back at the CRTs, I am unable to find where this was said or accepted. Not only is this supposedly part of a scaling that has changed over the years, but is also wrong. The Yeoui wasn't destroyed because of the three gods blast doing something to it, but because Satan literally amped himself x52 stronger, and broke. We know the Gourd was damaged because it was stated, however, the Yeoui was not, it was simply broken by Satan(x52) because he was far stronger. This isn't an outlier or inconsistent. This should be removed. This was something I brought up as well regarding Yeoui being 4-B:

for the record, when satan broke it [ch291], yeoui was already damaged. mori says so. [ch291].
if yeoui is relative to the user's dura as it is with their AP, then it should be relative to mori, who immediately ate blows from 52x satan. [ch291] you could make the argument that mori hadn't AD'd yet, which is fair, so i don't really mind on this one. Yeoui would just be far more durable than the dura of whoever's using it.

I missed some things in the original post but I'll explain here. You're missing an aspect to my argument and only focusing on the "him being tired" part. Mori comes into the fight tired from fighting in the tower breaking through each floor and killing the apostle/nephlim, on top of that he also has unleashed him clones which are taking and even further amount of strength, he begins to fight the gods(Phase 1) and is holding his own but is relative, we get an internal monolog where Mori is now holding back to save strength to fight Satan, on top of that he gets more damage and poisoned fighting them. So Mori isn't simply just tired at this point, he tired, strength is burdened by clones, holding back to save strength, get further injuries and poison. Mori cuts back his clones to 1/3 of the amount and proceeds to destroy the gods(Phase 2).

a large part of this paragraph is basically saying "mori was beaten up to high hell and back" which, y'know, i never disagreed with. it's the crux of BOTH our points, just where we differ is that i don't think mori being so damn roughed up is enough to nuke his stats to the extent you think they are.

as for the second half - mori (reducing the number of clones to be expending less energy sustaining them) > mori (burning energy sustaining the clones)
i don't see what the point is here, i agree with you. mori is stronger when dividing his strength between fewer clones, sure.

Kinda explained above with some of the things I missed. But More than just tired, but injured, holding back, clones also burdening his strength, plus poison, using a lot of energy to maintain his state. Mori is a damage sponge, hence why he is able to take the beatings in his state and push through, but doesn't mean he doesn't get weaker. Also the first one is him just pinning down Mori's foot not breaking and the Blue dragon are just deep skin cuts.

"pinning down his foot" - knees don't bend like that.
also seungcheol, who you know has insane analytical ability, said "probably that his leg is broken cuz daewi went crazy on it" [ch37]
also, i feel like calling the damage he got from blue dragon "deep skin cuts" is also clearly underselling it. yes, he got wounds all over, but also had multiple blood spots on his shirt and was spitting up blood. it CLEARLY did more damage than just some superficial flesh wounds.

if you want an example, remember when after getting a hole poked in his chest [ch21] that by all means should have killed him, mujin explicitly called a vital point [ch21] and also explicitly wasn't healing [ch21], he went to fold Q with relative ease? [ch22] compare how spry and springy he is here to after getting hit by one (1) wave of blue dragon.

this isn't a major point but i thought it was really odd you basically chose to say "nuh uh that wasn't breaking his leg and also it was just flesh wounds" like lol no

he was also low on strength and barely able to nudge the Yeoui around. Furthermore in the same fight, Mori goes from not being able to wield and control properly Yeoui while fighting Taek, to sitting down for near less than a minute to being able to hold and wield Yeoui in another fight straight after. What can I say, Mori jin recover insane, him recovering before satan isn't out of the ordinary.

idunno if this is a valid comparison. you're talking about someone who JUST awakened a new powerset/transformation being able to control it better after some time versus someone becoming RIDICULOUSLY weaker because they're just very beat up.
even the scan you bring up has mori using yeoui right after where you say he "couldn't wield and control it".
(he summons it down from the moon.) (tries to pick it up, doesn't budge.) (he then, immediately after, uses it anyway.) [ch109]
his MK mode also shouldn't regen stamina, considering he - still in MK mode, see the loop around his forehead [ch110] - could barely stand after and needed the support of ilpyo, daewi and mira [ch110] to help fend off against tam-possessed jegal. he says "all i can do now", the part where he picks it back up after jegal is gone has him saying the headband is tightening (i.e LOW ON POWER). mira says he's tired. consider this one as a gag panel, if you will, but when ungnyeo is hitting him, mori says "she's slow but i can't dodge". the headband disappears and he falls asleep in the next chapter. [ch112]

i still disagree.