Ghost Rider general additions - Part 3

[Spider_Reds]

Haxes:

• Resistance Negation: Hellfire can harm Symbiotes, despite the Symbiotes being immune to The Penance Stare (which destroys your soul & mind, controlling you to stare, and making you experience all your sins by using pain). Hellfire can destroy Lucifer's last two avatars (given they were the last ones, they'd have half of True Lucifer's power; you might be confused given officers' weaponry taking down Lucifer's last avatar, but given the fact that this was Lucifer's last host, he'd still have his true power that he has in Hell, yet The Hellfire he was hit with would weaken him to be defeated by said weaponry), with Lucifer being able to shrug off his son's Soulfire, which can end all of Hell. Even resistances to fire, will still get scorched by Hellfire.
• Regeneration Negation (Low-Godly) & Immortality Negation (Type 2, 3, and 6): Strange using demonic magic, uses Hellfire to kill demons, even when demons can survive just as their essences, buying new bodies or just inserting themselves into one, or even existing just as streamers and regenerating from being exploded.
• More Evidence for Self-Size Manipulation: Alejandra matches Mephisto's height in Hell to fight him. Johnny grew to such a big size where he could use Earth as a platform.
• Free Movement: The Hellcycle rides into: outer space, the sky, the side of mountains, on water, on lava, up buildings, and rooftops.
• Space Survival: Ghost Riders easily survive being in the vacuum of space.
• Necromancy: Zarathos can bring the dead back to life.
• Evidence for Soul Manipulation: The Ghost Riders can eradicate or destroy it towards multiple people, making them a life-less, emotionless zombie, and or straight up eat your soul or sin; mesmerize one's soul to cleanse one's soul of evil.
• Temperature Manipulation: Hellfire burns cold (another example).
• Darkness Manipulation: Can project darkness to restrain Paradox Strange.
• Evidence for Transmutation: Completely transforms a cop car into a a demonic bandwagon. Noble Kale created his Hellcycle from nothing by making Hellfire that'd mostly convert to a motorcycle.
• Self-Resurrection: Recall in part 2 where I mentioned his resistance to law manipulation, mainly due to Johnny's ability to exit Hell despite being stuck there whenever he dies due to his deal with Lucifer, that also was him able to resurrect himself as since Hell cannot keep him whenever he dies, he can return back into physical reality. When Doctor Strange knocked out Johnny during their fight, Johnny just got up and gained back conscious.
• Magic User - Basic Magic & Low-Tier Sorcerer: Johnny Blaze was stated to be the focal point of magic, know and cast spells of teleportation (though he didn't get his expected result), and set up occult rituals.

Resistances:

• Time Manipulation: The Ghost Riders have moved in dimensions where time is nonexistent or disrupts constantly.
• Biological Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, and Transmutation: Johnny repels The Skin-Bender's ability to control skin and turn people into monsters.
• Evidence for Immunity to fire, heat, lava, and flames: Johnny walked off a flamethrower in his Ghost Rider form, Danny was unfazed by getting hit with an incendiary grenade, Johnny & Zarathos are fine even when riding near lava, Danny has even shrugged off The Human Torch's blast of fire, and Johnny tanked an explosion of Hellfire from Alejandra after having her full powers unlocked by Adam, which wiped out an entire country (Even thought The Seeker states that he helped nullify the effect, he actually encountered Alejandra and just a flare of her Hellfire was too strong for even him to nullify)

 

[Spider_Reds]

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[Suigetsuhyugs]

Haxes:

• Resistance Negation: Hellfire can harm Symbiotes, despite the Symbiotes being immune to The Penance Stare (which destroys your soul & mind, controlling you to stare, and making you experience all your sins by using pain). Hellfire can destroy Lucifer's last two avatars (given they were the last ones, they'd have half of True Lucifer's power; you might be confused given officers' weaponry taking down Lucifer's last avatar, but given the fact that this was Lucifer's last host, he'd still have his true power that he has in Hell, yet The Hellfire he was hit with would weaken him to be defeated by said weaponry), with Lucifer being able to shrug off his son's Soulfire, which can end all of Hell. Even resistances to fire, will still get scorched by Hellfire.

That's already on the marvel magic page so there is no point in adding to Ghost rider's profile

• Regeneration Negation (Low-Godly) & Immortality Negation (Type 2, 3, and 6): Strange using demonic magic, uses Hellfire to kill demons, even when demons can survive just as their essences, buying new bodies or just inserting themselves into one, or even existing just as streamers and regenerating from being exploded.

That's not for Ghost rider that's for demonic magic, not Ghost rider.

• More Evidence for Self-Size Manipulation: Alejandra matches Mephisto's height in Hell to fight him. Johnny grew to such a big size where he could use Earth as a platform.

Sure, kinda unnecessary but if you have the references then it's perfect

• Free Movement: The Hellcycle rides into: outer space, the sky, the side of mountains, on water, on lava, up buildings, and rooftops.
• Space Survival: Ghost Riders easily survive being in the vacuum of space.

Don't know why doesn't he have that already

• Necromancy: Zarathos can bring the dead back to life.

That's Zarathos power but maybe it can count as Ghost rider too he has a key that has no powers and abilities

• Evidence for Soul Manipulation: The Ghost Riders can eradicate or destroy it towards multiple people, making them a life-less, emotionless zombie, and or straight up eat your soul or sin; mesmerize one's soul to cleanse one's soul of evil.

If you have references sure

• Temperature Manipulation: Hellfire burns cold (another example).

I guess that's fine

• Darkness Manipulation: Can project darkness to restrain Paradox Strange.

Zarathos

• Evidence for Transmutation: Completely transforms a cop car into a a demonic bandwagon. Noble Kale created his Hellcycle from nothing by making Hellfire that'd mostly convert to a motorcycle.

Sure

• Self-Resurrection: Recall in part 2 where I mentioned his resistance to law manipulation, mainly due to Johnny's ability to exit Hell despite being stuck there whenever he dies due to his deal with Lucifer, that also was him able to resurrect himself as since Hell cannot keep him whenever he dies, he can return back into physical reality. When Doctor Strange knocked out Johnny during their fight, Johnny just got up and gained back conscious.

Maybe

• Magic User - Basic Magic & Low-Tier Sorcerer: Johnny Blaze was stated to be the focal point of magic, know and cast spells of teleportation (though he didn't get his expected result), and set up occult rituals.

Don't know if this is enough for Low tier sorcerer but he already has magic on his profile

Resistances:

• Time Manipulation: The Ghost Riders have moved in dimensions where time is nonexistent or disrupts constantly.
• Biological Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, and Transmutation: Johnny repels The Skin-Bender's ability to control skin and turn people into monsters.

He has resistance to high tier marvel magic so I think he already has all of those

• Evidence for Immunity to fire, heat, lava, and flames: Johnny walked off a flamethrower in his Ghost Rider form, Danny was unfazed by getting hit with an incendiary grenade, Johnny & Zarathos are fine even when riding near lava, Danny has even shrugged off The Human Torch's blast of fire, and Johnny tanked an explosion of Hellfire from Alejandra after having her full powers unlocked by Adam, which wiped out an entire country (Even thought The Seeker states that he helped nullify the effect, he actually encountered Alejandra and just a flare of her Hellfire was too strong for even him to nullify)

I don't think any of these is actually immunity just resistance but I have seen staff being lenient with that.

 

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[Spider_Reds]

That's already on the marvel magic page so there is no point in adding to Ghost rider's profile

I'm pretty sure Resist Neg in the Magic (Marvel) page talks about how the necessity for mystic defenses is key in resisting magical attacks or they'll result in them getting injured, no matter how durable they are. I should've elaborated further, GR's resist neg was based on negating resistances with his Hellfire alone, including soul manip resistance (which is magical given Hellstrom's Soulfire is used for exorcism and soul damaging), pain manip resistance (symbiotes literally have no soul and The Penance Stare literally being The Wrath of God itself rattling inside one's mind), and of course fire manip resistance, though I can see the last one being apart of the resist-neg that Magic in Marvel offers.

That's not for Ghost rider that's for demonic magic, not Ghost rider.

Hellfire is the equivalent of shooting a magic blast, for demons instead, and you also did forget to see the panel where Strange utilizes Hellfire to kill off said demons. Even though Zarathos is an angel, given his bind with Lucifer and or Mephisto, he sorta got corrupted into demonic magic, though not totally since he never wanted or did serve either Mephisto or Lucifer; so it should count as an ability of Ghost Rider's Hellfire.

That's Zarathos power but maybe it can count as Ghost rider too he has a key that has no powers and abilities

When Johnny and Zarathos first appeared as The Ghost Rider, it never started out like with Danny where he maintained his Spirit of Vengeance's power (Noble Kale) and restricted it from being totally unleashed (which we know is canonically true given how Alejandra nuked an entire country thanks to Adam unlocking her true potential, i.e., Zarathos), whenever Johnny turned into The Ghost Rider, it was Zarathos making an appearance, not Johnny taking the form of Ghost Rider. Meaning everything Johnny, Danny, Alejandra, Robbie, and even Frank have ever done, was due to their restricted power of their Spirit of Vengeance (hell, Alejandra has actually utilized her powers to form storms), so it's not just Zarathos or Noble Kale who can do it.

Don't know if this is enough for Low tier sorcerer but he already has magic on his profile

At the very least, Johnny should be considered more skilled in magic than basically every other host, even though I can't find the scan, Johnny was at one point considered to be Sorcerer Supreme. If that's the case, he definitely should be a lower-tier sorcerer.

He has resistance to high tier marvel magic so I think he already has all of those

Just showing GR's own ability resist said haxes.

I don't think any of these is actually immunity just resistance but I have seen staff being lenient with that.

Why not? With the incendiary grenade, Ketch actually ended up absorbing it after getting hit with it, Johnny shrugged off that flamethrower and even that Hellfire nuke from Alejandra, and Ketch was straight up unfazed from getting hit with The Human Torch's flames, them just ignoring those high level fire feats are most definitely an immunity.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I'm pretty sure Resist Neg in the Magic (Marvel) page talks about how the necessity for mystic defenses is key in resisting magical attacks or they'll result in them getting injured, no matter how durable they are. I should've elaborated further, GR's resist neg was based on negating resistances with his Hellfire alone, including soul manip resistance (which is magical given Hellstrom's Soulfire is used for exorcism and soul damaging), pain manip resistance (symbiotes literally have no soul and The Penance Stare literally being The Wrath of God itself rattling inside one's mind), and of course fire manip resistance, though I can see the last one being apart of the resist-neg that Magic in Marvel offers.

I was refering to

• Soul Manipulation/Durability Negation and Resistance to Water: Ghost Rider's hellfire burned Water Wizard's soul without even harming his body, and worked even when Ghost Rider was underwater.
• Resistance Negation to Fire Manipulation: A hellfire blast from the Haazareth Three burned the Human Torch despite the latter resisting normal flames (such as his own) with ease.[398]

Hellfire is the equivalent of shooting a magic blast, for demons instead, and you also did forget to see the panel where Strange utilizes Hellfire to kill off said demons. Even though Zarathos is an angel, given his bind with Lucifer and or Mephisto, he sorta got corrupted into demonic magic, though not totally since he never wanted or did serve either Mephisto or Lucifer; so it should count as an ability of Ghost Rider's Hellfire.

I was saying that you should have specified that is a Demonic magic power instead of being an ability of Ghost Rider, I know that Ghost rider uses hellfire and that indirectly makes it a power for him but the point is you should have said that to be an ability to add to the Marvel Magic page

When Johnny and Zarathos first appeared as The Ghost Rider, it never started out like with Danny where he maintained his Spirit of Vengeance's power (Noble Kale) and restricted it from being totally unleashed (which we know is canonically true given how Alejandra nuked an entire country thanks to Adam unlocking her true potential, i.e., Zarathos), whenever Johnny turned into The Ghost Rider, it was Zarathos making an appearance, not Johnny taking the form of Ghost Rider. Meaning everything Johnny, Danny, Alejandra, Robbie, and even Frank have ever done, was due to their restricted power of their Spirit of Vengeance (hell, Alejandra has actually utilized her powers to form storms), so it's not just Zarathos or Noble Kale who can do it.

You are saying that all Ghost Riders scale to the powers of Zarathos?

At the very least, Johnny should be considered more skilled in magic than basically every other host, even though I can't find the scan, Johnny was at one point considered to be Sorcerer Supreme. If that's the case, he definitely should be a lower-tier sorcerer.

I don't know about all other hosts but in this wiki Frank and Robbie have pages and they don't even marvel magic at all.

Just showing GR's own ability resist said haxes.

I know but seems kinda redundant no?

Why not? With the incendiary grenade, Ketch actually ended up absorbing it after getting hit with it, Johnny shrugged off that flamethrower and even that Hellfire nuke from Alejandra, and Ketch was straight up unfazed from getting hit with The Human Torch's flames, them just ignoring those high level fire feats are most definitely an immunity.

The qualifications for immunity in this wiki as per the page says are very heavy

Qualifying for Immunity is difficult, as no simple show of resistance is enough, and statements could easily be hyperbole or only apply in-verse. Immunity should only be given when the user in question entirely lacks what would normally be affected. An inorganic being, for example, has no biological components to manipulate, and an entity without a soul won't be harmed by Soul Manipulation.

Many characters have fire ressitance or are capable of absorbing fire in Marvel, Captain Marvel herself has actually resistance to Hellfire, I don't think any of these is really proof of immunity instead of just resistance. But there is not really a way to deal with this since Hellfire is not necessarily hot but it's powers allow to affect even a soul in a way that fire should not be able to, it's not like we can prove that hellfire has infinite degrees temperature since there isn't really layers into fire manipulation that can actually be applied.

 

[Spider_Reds]

I was saying that you should have specified that is a Demonic magic power instead of being an ability of Ghost Rider, I know that Ghost rider uses hellfire and that indirectly makes it a power for him but the point is you should have said that to be an ability to add to the Marvel Magic page

My bad, sorry.

You are saying that all Ghost Riders scale to the powers of Zarathos?

Yeah, it's just that hosts are restricting their Spirit of Vengeance's strength, as unleashing it could release them into the world and probably go on a bloodlust until the hosts are able to gain back consciousness.

I don't know about all other hosts but in this wiki Frank and Robbie have pages and they don't even marvel magic at all.

I mean, they should, Robbie at the time didn't actually have a Spirit of Vengeance and it was his dead uncle that was giving him his powers, though eventually due to meeting Johnny, his uncle was removed from possessing him and actually gained a Spirit of Vengeance. Cosmic Ghost Rider is weird as it's not just him as a Ghost Rider, he also has The Phoenix Force and The Power Cosmic.

I know but seems kinda redundant no?

I guess.

The qualifications for immunity in this wiki as per the page says are very heavy

The immunity addition to Ghost Rider wasn't something I came up, I guess earlier Vs Wiki just decided that no damage from any fire attacks that GR were capable of no selling proved immunity towards fire manip, even after adding Magic (Marvel) to Ghost Rider, there was really no debate against his immunity to fire, lava, and heat.

Many characters have fire ressitance or are capable of absorbing fire in Marvel, Captain Marvel herself has actually resistance to Hellfire, I don't think any of these is really proof of immunity instead of just resistance. But there is not really a way to deal with this since Hellfire is not necessarily hot but it's powers allow to affect even a soul in a way that fire should not be able to, it's not like we can prove that hellfire has infinite degrees temperature since there isn't really layers into fire manipulation that can actually be applied.

Except Ghost Rider survived way more ludicrous feats of facetanking flames, none of them ever flinching to fiery-based attacks to add on, especially when Danny just facetook The Human Torch's fire. You point out Carol, but what about Lucifer? He's both mystic and also has the ability to generate Hellfire, yet he straight up died to a direct strike of Hellfire. When showing the immunity page, Ghost Riders are considered by some writers are either actually made of Hellfire, their suit is Hellfire, their skeleton is Hellfire, or the skeleton is something mystic that has an aura of Hellfire and it's certainly not hyperbolic as Ghost Rider has straight up used his mystic Hellfire body to phase through barriers.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Yeah, it's just that hosts are restricting their Spirit of Vengeance's strength, as unleashing it could release them into the world and probably go on a bloodlust until the hosts are able to gain back consciousness.

You should prove that with scans, you are saying Ghost Rider have the same powers as Zarathos just with limited output.

I mean, they should, Robbie at the time didn't actually have a Spirit of Vengeance and it was his dead uncle that was giving him his powers, though eventually due to meeting Johnny, his uncle was removed from possessing him and actually gained a Spirit of Vengeance. Cosmic Ghost Rider is weird as it's not just him as a Ghost Rider, he also has The Phoenix Force and The Power Cosmic.

Then talk about that in the OP

The immunity addition to Ghost Rider wasn't something I came up, I guess earlier Vs Wiki just decided that no damage from any fire attacks that GR were capable of no selling proved immunity towards fire manip, even after adding Magic (Marvel) to Ghost Rider, there was really no debate against his immunity to fire, lava, and heat.

I never saw if that was a thing at some point, but right now no selling doesn't prove immunity.

Except Ghost Rider survived way more ludicrous feats of facetanking flames, none of them ever flinching to fiery-based attacks to add on, especially when Danny just facetook The Human Torch's fire. You point out Carol, but what about Lucifer? He's both mystic and also has the ability to generate Hellfire, yet he straight up died to a direct strike of Hellfire.

Carol has resistance to Hellfire overall attacks from Ghost Rider and also resisting the penance stare.

When showing the immunity page, Ghost Riders are considered by some writers are either actually made of Hellfire, their suit is Hellfire, their skeleton is Hellfire, or the skeleton is something mystic that has an aura of Hellfire and it's certainly not hyperbolic as Ghost Rider has straight up used his mystic Hellfire body to phase through barriers.

Being made of fire doesn't mean fire won't work on you? Have tou never heard of fighting fire with fire? Anyways my opinion is not necessary the same as the staff, it's just based on what I read immunity is really hard to get.

You should talk to Eseseso he is the one who made the marvel magic page and all it's revisions.

 

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[Eseseso]

Will look at later, but will also advise OP that he should probably focus on getting the first 2 Ghost Rider threads accepted first.

 

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[Eseseso]

Please add references.

 

[SamanPatou]

Haxes:

• Resistance Negation: Hellfire can harm Symbiotes, despite the Symbiotes being immune to The Penance Stare (which destroys your soul & mind, controlling you to stare, and making you experience all your sins by using pain). Hellfire can destroy Lucifer's last two avatars (given they were the last ones, they'd have half of True Lucifer's power; you might be confused given officers' weaponry taking down Lucifer's last avatar, but given the fact that this was Lucifer's last host, he'd still have his true power that he has in Hell, yet The Hellfire he was hit with would weaken him to be defeated by said weaponry), with Lucifer being able to shrug off his son's Soulfire, which can end all of Hell. Even resistances to fire, will still get scorched by Hellfire.

I'm not sure of this, the first two feats seem unrelated to each other; Penance Stare and Hellfire may have similar demonic nature, but they're not the same, so resisting the first doesn't automatically imply resistance to the other.
The remaining feats seem more like cases of higher hellfire potency, rather than resistance negation.

• Regeneration Negation (Low-Godly) & Immortality Negation (Type 2, 3, and 6): Strange using demonic magic, uses Hellfire to kill demons, even when demons can survive just as their essences, buying new bodies or just inserting themselves into one, or even existing just as streamers and regenerating from being exploded.

I'm not sure if the things can quite be compared, considering the sightly different nature of GR and Strange's abilities. Also, I'm not a fan of linking comics so distant in time from each other, assuming they follow the same mechanics.
I'd rather have both GR perform the feat and have any exotic effects be stated on screen.

• More Evidence for Self-Size Manipulation: Alejandra matches Mephisto's height in Hell to fight him. Johnny grew to such a big size where he could use Earth as a platform.

The first's ok, the second doesn't seem to be literal, just a cool portrait during a recap.

• Free Movement: The Hellcycle rides into: outer space, the sky, the side of mountains, on water, on lava, up buildings, and rooftops.
• Space Survival: Ghost Riders easily survive being in the vacuum of space.
• Necromancy: Zarathos can bring the dead back to life.

These look ok.

• Evidence for Soul Manipulation: The Ghost Riders can eradicate or destroy it towards multiple people, making them a life-less, emotionless zombie, and or straight up eat your soul or sin; mesmerize one's soul to cleanse one's soul of evil.

Do the first three scans come from the same issue/series? Or, are they related to each other? Because I don't see any mention of souls being eradicated or destroyed. I'm not sure about the fourth one, and Robbie Reyes isn't a normal GR with a Spirit of Vengeance, so I don't think we can scale him to other GRs. The others look ok.

• Temperature Manipulation: Hellfire burns cold (another example).
• Darkness Manipulation: Can project darkness to restrain Paradox Strange.

These should be ok.

• Evidence for Transmutation: Completely transforms a cop car into a a demonic bandwagon. Noble Kale created his Hellcycle from nothing by making Hellfire that'd mostly convert to a motorcycle.

The first's fine, the second looks more like creation or summoning.

• Self-Resurrection: Recall in part 2 where I mentioned his resistance to law manipulation, mainly due to Johnny's ability to exit Hell despite being stuck there whenever he dies due to his deal with Lucifer, that also was him able to resurrect himself as since Hell cannot keep him whenever he dies, he can return back into physical reality. When Doctor Strange knocked out Johnny during their fight, Johnny just got up and gained back conscious.

I'm not really sure of that, can Johnny escape from Hell whenever he wants? Even after breaking his deal with Lucifer? Also, I'm not sure Strange actually killed him in that instance, it may be just stamina.

• Magic User - Basic Magic & Low-Tier Sorcerer: Johnny Blaze was stated to be the focal point of magic, know and cast spells of teleportation (though he didn't get his expected result), and set up occult rituals.

Seems ok.

Resistances:

• Time Manipulation: The Ghost Riders have moved in dimensions where time is nonexistent or disrupts constantly.

We don't consider existing in timeless places and similar locations as resisting time hax, since they are specific environment effects and GR doesn't seem to either resist or being unaffected in any way. It's not like the place was meant to affect him, just for him to surpass it. They're just environmental conditions.

• Biological Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, and Transmutation: Johnny repels The Skin-Bender's ability to control skin and turn people into monsters.
• Evidence for Immunity to fire, heat, lava, and flames: Johnny walked off a flamethrower in his Ghost Rider form, Danny was unfazed by getting hit with an incendiary grenade, Johnny & Zarathos are fine even when riding near lava, Danny has even shrugged off The Human Torch's blast of fire, and Johnny tanked an explosion of Hellfire from Alejandra after having her full powers unlocked by Adam, which wiped out an entire country (Even thought The Seeker states that he helped nullify the effect, he actually encountered Alejandra and just a flare of her Hellfire was too strong for even him to nullify)

These are fine, but the last one (the Alejandra blast) is extremely convoluted and looks like even normal people survived the blast.
Also, the entire sequence is a tad bit confusing, so I'm uncertain on using it.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

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[SamanPatou]

Part three of me taking over Ghost Riders threads, for the general rules please see thread 1 and 2.

Additions:

• Size Manipulation: Alejandra Jones, at the time host of Zarathos, grew to titanic proportions in order to match Mephisto. (Ghost Rider Vol 7 9). The second proposal isn't an actual depiction of GR and Satan fighting on Earth itself, but a visual metaphor (Ghost Rider Vol 2 19)
• Free Movement: Ghost Riders can ride their cycles on sand, water (Ghost Rider Vol 6 32), lava (Damnation: Johnny Blaze - Ghost Rider Vol 1) and in space (Ghost Rider: Return of Vengeance Vol 1). I couldn't find the source of the second scan, but rather than actually flying, the cycle just took it to the sky after using a car as a ramp. The fourth scan was simply redundant, so I omitted it, as the third shows both water and the buildings.
• Surface Scaling: Ghost Riders can defy gravity and ride their bikes on vertical surfaces horizontally (Ghost Rider Vol 6 32), upwards (Shadowland: Ghost Rider) and downwards (Ghost Rider Vol 7 #0.1). The last scan, of him riding on rooftops, is just a showcase of skill, perhaps superhuman, but not a magic power per se.
• Space Survival: Vengeance, a fellow Ghost Rider empowered by Zala, an entity kindred to Zarathos, performed a trip from outer space to Earth without consequences (Ghost Rider: Return of Vengeance Vol 1).
• Minor Conceptual Manipulation: Johnny witnessed Alejandra Jones using the Ghost Rider's powers to purge multiple people from "sin" itself, altering their very nature and turning them into hollow husks (Ghost Rider Vol 7 #2 to 4). Zarathos could also suck the sins out of a person's soul in Hell and feed on them as food. (Damnation: Johnny Blaze - Ghost Rider). Pay attention to this pragraph, because its message will be moved into the profile itself as a note or two, complete with scans and references. These issues (2,3 and 4) hammer well on the fact that the Ghost Riders can potentially have access to a lot of different powers, but are restricted by the blunt ignorance of their true capabilities. Here, Alejandra utilizes a very specific ability, whose activation (not bestowal) is triggered by Adam, who also states that Johnny would always have been able to use as well, he simply didn't know. The same is said of other powers, like Alejandra barfing out a swarm of locusts (I will add this ability in another thread), with Seeker reiterating that Johnny could have done it as well, if he only had thought about it. Lastly, I rebranded this ability as Minor Conceptual Manipulation because the effects and statements related to this ability refer mainly to the general concept of "sin", with but one or two references to the soul, which is very likely involved, but not the direct or proper target, just a consequential one. I treated Zarathos eating sins as conceptual manipulation as well, since what he sucks out of the dude (who is already a disembodied soul, the comic is set in Hell) can hardly be considered anything else but the manifestation of metaphysical sins.
• Temperature Manipulation: Can make his flames burn cold and deal metaphysical damage to his victims; these flames sear the target's mind and soul through a hellish torture fueled by guilt, regret and more. Such ability could hurt even virtuous individuals such as Spider-Man and the Thing. (Ghost Rider Vol 2 23, Ghost Rider Vol 2 68, Ghost Rider Vol 2 73, Marvel Team-Up Vol 1 58, Marvel Two-In-One Vol 1 80 and Ghost Rider Vol 3 24). I have added a few more scans of my own finding, to showcase the whole effects of the cold flame and add all to the Soul and the Mind Manipulation justifications as well.
• Darkness Manipulation: Zarathos only; released a stream of darkness to engulf and restrain those he didn't want to let inside his catacomb (Ghost Rider/Jhonny Blaze: Spirits of Vengeance 1 18).
• Magic: (Basic and Low Tier), Summoning, Teleportation and Sealing: Johnny Blaze was stated to be a focal point of magic towards whom good and evil mystical beings are drawn. (Ghost Rider/Jhonny Blaze: Spirits of Vengeance 1 1). Johnny is also somewhat versed in magic, being able to prepare and cast spells, but he never bothered honing thid skills; consequently, his spells are often half-baked and likely to backfire, an example being the time he botched a spell of summoning and teleportation (Thunderbolts Vol 3 20), although it was not entirely his fault (note: The following issue reveals that Red Hulk had been claimed by Hell and that the demonic mark placed upon him interfered with the correct execution of Johnny Blaze's magic). In the past he even tried to restrain Danny Ketch, the host of Zarathos at the time, using a containment spell, but his magic proved too weak (Ghost Rider Vol 3 14). This also translates into a general Resistance to Sealing for the Ghost Riders in general.
• Resistance to:
• Biological Manipulation and Matter Manipulation: Having become the Ghost Rider made Johnny Blaze immune and even harmful to the Skin-Bender, a demon with the power of turning living beings into grotesque abominations and change matter itself (Ghost Rider Vol 6 35). Transmutation was a bit redundant and pointless, so I removed it.
• Fire Manipulation: Completely unfazed by the jet of a flamethrower (Ghost Rider Vol 2 39) and even by the blasts of the Human Torch himself (Fantastic Four Vol 1 374). For some reason fire was listed twice in the op and no real resistance to lava was presented (standing on a sea of lava can guarantee resistance to temperature, maybe, but eh). I've also excluded the incendiary grenade to avoid redundancy and because that scan alone was kind of a mess, I'm sure one could find a million examples of Ghost Rider ignoring standard fire. Moreover, I've stacked a handful of instances where he resists various types of fire and lava (Man-Thing's fire, Pluto's hellfire, Hell's lava pits) which I will present in the aforementioned future revisions. Also, the last scans regarding Alejandra razing a country is weird, because the landscape had indeed been destroyed, but people were fine, so there is no instance of Johnny enduring actual hellfire.

Extra explanations for things I've rejected entirely:

• Resistance, Immortality and Regeneration Negation: Hellfire and the Penance Stare are two different things entirely, so I'm not sure why they are considered the same thing here. The last Lucifer's host being killed by bullets may either be a sign of weakness, an inconsistency of just his full power not having yet manifested. GR killing the second-last host may just be a matter of AP, there's no actual evidence of durability negation anywhere in the comic. The rest is a general cross-scaling of an ill-defined element such as hellfire across comic books of different epochs, authors and fictional characters, which I'm not a fan of, since they show next-to-nothing connections aside from the use of a common word.
• Necromancy: Raydar, the character killed by Zarathos, is never brought back to life and other characters in the story suggest he might be lying to sway Embyrre, the girl, to his side. Zarathos himself, even if lying, already says he can't do it alone. My own verdic is that this alleged ability has too many layers of doubt to be safely attributed.
• Soul Manipulation: Scaling to Robbie Reyes remains a big no to me, regardless of recent retcons, and I'm sure we can find another scan of GR eating souls somewhere. The last one, where he mesmerizes the Cronenberg monster, is already on the file.
• Transmutation and Resurrection: Please read this paragraph very carefully, because I'm not actually rejecting these abilities, just delaying them to a future revision. Reworking these Ghost Rider revisions sparked in me the will of doing a more general rework of the character, which will probably happen over a few more revisions. Regarding Transmutation, in the previous thread we established that the first scan was an illusion. The second is technically correct, but creating Hell Cycles out of nothing or made of hellfire is an ability abundantly showcased even by Johnny Blaze himself and I have several scans stored away to prove it, and I will present them in a future instance alongside other additions. Resurrection is technically correct, as Johnny did escape from Hell after dying and consequently coming back to life on a number of occasions, but the whole ability requires much more context, explanation and scans than the few mentions provided in the OP, so I'm reserving to add this ability in a proper way in the future. The last scans, the battle with Dr. Strange, don't involve GR's death at all, he is simply KO'd and then he gets up after tapping into more of the SoV's inner power (Ghost Rider Vol 6 3).
• Resistance to Time Manipulation: Pretty much what I've said in my comment above, those examples are environmental conditions which seemingly affected all the people involved, including normal humans like that lady pursued by a goat demon.

Errata Corrige:

• In the previous thread I accepted the scan of Alejandra Jones reaching Ohio through a portal as legitimate, since in the scene nothing implied she didn't make it. However, now that I'm reading the full volume, it's shown at the end of the issue that the portal was actually opened by the Seeker, not Alejandra, so that scan should be removed from GR's file. Nonetheless, in issue 5 a proper instance of Alejandra opening portals through Zarathos direct guidance was provided, so I suggest this as a replacement.

All is done here, please speak thy mind and I'll see y'all in the fourth thread!

 

[SamanPatou]

Up

 

[Eseseso]

Part three of me taking over Ghost Riders threads, for the general rules please see thread 1 and 2.

Additions:

• Size Manipulation: Alejandra Jones, at the time host of Zarathos, grew to titanic proportions in order to match Mephisto. (Ghost Rider Vol 7 9). The second proposal isn't an actual depiction of GR and Satan fighting on Earth itself, but a visual metaphor (Ghost Rider Vol 2 19)
• Free Movement: Ghost Riders can ride their cycles on sand, water (Ghost Rider Vol 6 32), lava (Damnation: Johnny Blaze - Ghost Rider Vol 1) and in space (Ghost Rider: Return of Vengeance Vol 1). I couldn't find the source of the second scan, but rather than actually flying, the cycle just took it to the sky after using a car as a ramp. The fourth scan was simply redundant, so I omitted it, as the third shows both water and the buildings.
• Surface Scaling: Ghost Riders can defy gravity and ride their bikes on vertical surfaces horizontally (Ghost Rider Vol 6 32), upwards (Shadowland: Ghost Rider) and downwards (Ghost Rider Vol 7 #0.1). The last scan, of him riding on rooftops, is just a showcase of skill, perhaps superhuman, but not a magic power per se.
• Space Survival: Vengeance, a fellow Ghost Rider empowered by Zala, an entity kindred to Zarathos, performed a trip from outer space to Earth without consequences (Ghost Rider: Return of Vengeance Vol 1).
• Minor Conceptual Manipulation: Johnny witnessed Alejandra Jones using the Ghost Rider's powers to purge multiple people from "sin" itself, altering their very nature and turning them into hollow husks (Ghost Rider Vol 7 #2 to 4). Zarathos could also suck the sins out of a person's soul in Hell and feed on them as food. (Damnation: Johnny Blaze - Ghost Rider). Pay attention to this pragraph, because its message will be moved into the profile itself as a note or two, complete with scans and references. These issues (2,3 and 4) hammer well on the fact that the Ghost Riders can potentially have access to a lot of different powers, but are restricted by the blunt ignorance of their true capabilities. Here, Alejandra utilizes a very specific ability, whose activation (not bestowal) is triggered by Adam, who also states that Johnny would always have been able to use as well, he simply didn't know. The same is said of other powers, like Alejandra barfing out a swarm of locusts (I will add this ability in another thread), with Seeker reiterating that Johnny could have done it as well, if he only had thought about it. Lastly, I rebranded this ability as Minor Conceptual Manipulation because the effects and statements related to this ability refer mainly to the general concept of "sin", with but one or two references to the soul, which is very likely involved, but not the direct or proper target, just a consequential one. I treated Zarathos eating sins as conceptual manipulation as well, since what he sucks out of the dude (who is already a disembodied soul, the comic is set in Hell) can hardly be considered anything else but the manifestation of metaphysical sins.
• Temperature Manipulation: Can make his flames burn cold and deal metaphysical damage to his victims; these flames sear the target's mind and soul through a hellish torture fueled by guilt, regret and more. Such ability could hurt even virtuous individuals such as Spider-Man and the Thing. (Ghost Rider Vol 2 23, Ghost Rider Vol 2 68, Ghost Rider Vol 2 73, Marvel Team-Up Vol 1 58, Marvel Two-In-One Vol 1 80 and Ghost Rider Vol 3 24). I have added a few more scans of my own finding, to showcase the whole effects of the cold flame and add all to the Soul and the Mind Manipulation justifications as well.
• Darkness Manipulation: Zarathos only; released a stream of darkness to engulf and restrain those he didn't want to let inside his catacomb (Ghost Rider/Jhonny Blaze: Spirits of Vengeance 1 18).
• Magic: (Basic and Low Tier), Summoning, Teleportation and Sealing: Johnny Blaze was stated to be a focal point of magic towards whom good and evil mystical beings are drawn. (Ghost Rider/Jhonny Blaze: Spirits of Vengeance 1 1). Johnny is also somewhat versed in magic, being able to prepare and cast spells, but he never bothered honing thid skills; consequently, his spells are often half-baked and likely to backfire, an example being the time he botched a spell of summoning and teleportation (Thunderbolts Vol 3 20), although it was not entirely his fault (note: The following issue reveals that Red Hulk had been claimed by Hell and that the demonic mark placed upon him interfered with the correct execution of Johnny Blaze's magic). In the past he even tried to restrain Danny Ketch, the host of Zarathos at the time, using a containment spell, but his magic proved too weak (Ghost Rider Vol 3 14). This also translates into a general Resistance to Sealing for the Ghost Riders in general.
• Resistance to:
• Biological Manipulation and Matter Manipulation: Having become the Ghost Rider made Johnny Blaze immune and even harmful to the Skin-Bender, a demon with the power of turning living beings into grotesque abominations and change matter itself (Ghost Rider Vol 6 35). Transmutation was a bit redundant and pointless, so I removed it.
• Fire Manipulation: Completely unfazed by the jet of a flamethrower (Ghost Rider Vol 2 39) and even by the blasts of the Human Torch himself (Fantastic Four Vol 1 374). For some reason fire was listed twice in the op and no real resistance to lava was presented (standing on a sea of lava can guarantee resistance to temperature, maybe, but eh). I've also excluded the incendiary grenade to avoid redundancy and because that scan alone was kind of a mess, I'm sure one could find a million examples of Ghost Rider ignoring standard fire. Moreover, I've stacked a handful of instances where he resists various types of fire and lava (Man-Thing's fire, Pluto's hellfire, Hell's lava pits) which I will present in the aforementioned future revisions. Also, the last scans regarding Alejandra razing a country is weird, because the landscape had indeed been destroyed, but people were fine, so there is no instance of Johnny enduring actual hellfire.

Extra explanations for things I've rejected entirely:

• Resistance, Immortality and Regeneration Negation: Hellfire and the Penance Stare are two different things entirely, so I'm not sure why they are considered the same thing here. The last Lucifer's host being killed by bullets may either be a sign of weakness, an inconsistency of just his full power not having yet manifested. GR killing the second-last host may just be a matter of AP, there's no actual evidence of durability negation anywhere in the comic. The rest is a general cross-scaling of an ill-defined element such as hellfire across comic books of different epochs, authors and fictional characters, which I'm not a fan of, since they show next-to-nothing connections aside from the use of a common word.
• Necromancy: Raydar, the character killed by Zarathos, is never brought back to life and other characters in the story suggest he might be lying to sway Embyrre, the girl, to his side. Zarathos himself, even if lying, already says he can't do it alone. My own verdic is that this alleged ability has too many layers of doubt to be safely attributed.
• Soul Manipulation: Scaling to Robbie Reyes remains a big no to me, regardless of recent retcons, and I'm sure we can find another scan of GR eating souls somewhere. The last one, where he mesmerizes the Cronenberg monster, is already on the file.
• Transmutation and Resurrection: Please read this paragraph very carefully, because I'm not actually rejecting these abilities, just delaying them to a future revision. Reworking these Ghost Rider revisions sparked in me the will of doing a more general rework of the character, which will probably happen over a few more revisions. Regarding Transmutation, in the previous thread we established that the first scan was an illusion. The second is technically correct, but creating Hell Cycles out of nothing or made of hellfire is an ability abundantly showcased even by Johnny Blaze himself and I have several scans stored away to prove it, and I will present them in a future instance alongside other additions. Resurrection is technically correct, as Johnny did escape from Hell after dying and consequently coming back to life on a number of occasions, but the whole ability requires much more context, explanation and scans than the few mentions provided in the OP, so I'm reserving to add this ability in a proper way in the future. The last scans, the battle with Dr. Strange, don't involve GR's death at all, he is simply KO'd and then he gets up after tapping into more of the SoV's inner power (Ghost Rider Vol 6 3).
• Resistance to Time Manipulation: Pretty much what I've said in my comment above, those examples are environmental conditions which seemingly affected all the people involved, including normal humans like that lady pursued by a goat demon.

Errata Corrige:

• In the previous thread I accepted the scan of Alejandra Jones reaching Ohio through a portal as legitimate, since in the scene nothing implied she didn't make it. However, now that I'm reading the full volume, it's shown at the end of the issue that the portal was actually opened by the Seeker, not Alejandra, so that scan should be removed from GR's file. Nonetheless, in issue 5 a proper instance of Alejandra opening portals through Zarathos direct guidance was provided, so I suggest this as a replacement.

All is done here, please speak thy mind and I'll see y'all in the fourth thread!

Looks good

 

[SamanPatou]

Let's do things correctly and summon staff to provide input: @Antvasima @Tllmbrg

 

[Antvasima]

What Saman has accepted here can probably be applied.

 

[SamanPatou]

Everything's been applied, so I'm closing this thread.