Game Theory and Arceus

[TheMightyRegulator]

True but the fact that Arceus's power was needed to seal it away should give hints about how powerful it is. And didn't Hoopa forcefully summon the trio from their own realms? He'd need more than just good mind control in order to do something like that. Forcing the trio out of their realms with his power seems to rival the power of the Red Chains team galactic used to overpower Dialga and Palkia and those chains hold portions of Arceus's own energy in it that can even open holes to the Spatial and Temporal universes

It's not remotely the same.

"Three beings were born to bind time and space."

The Lake Guardians were created to restrain them. The red chain was created by the Lake Guardians. That's what makes the red chain this potent. Not because it can control them.

Arceus needing to seal Hoopa isn't a particular impressive feat, as it was to ensure it would stop destroying the town with its battles, not because it's the strongest Pokemon not to mention only a small portion of Arceus's power was used.

I can't recall if Hoopa defeated Rayquaza himself.

Giratina not immediately stomping a Small Planet level, Sub-Relativistic entity is laughable PIS...

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Do we have proof that they are all omnipresent though? It seems a bit weird for the same Arceus to be fighting itself.

Implying Arceus can be legally canonically acquired, however he can't. He can only be accessed through cheats or special events that does not pertain in any way, to the story and can easily be ignored without any repercussions.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Well I usually agree with him since he seem to be very logical, but after couple of month I dont check his channel(Since I lost my interest) this is the first time I think he say something really stupid -_-

 

[FictionalBlade101]

True but the fact that Arceus's power was needed to seal it away should give hints about how powerful it is. And didn't Hoopa forcefully summon the trio from their own realms? He'd need more than just good mind control in order to do something like that. Forcing the trio out of their realms with his power seems to rival the power of the Red Chains team galactic used to overpower Dialga and Palkia and those chains hold portions of Arceus's own energy in it that can even open holes to the Spatial and Temporal universes

It's not remotely the same.
"Three beings were born to bind time and space."

The Lake Guardians were created to restrain them. The red chain was created by the Lake Guardians. That's what makes the red chain this potent. Not because it can control them.

Arceus needing to seal Hoopa isn't a particular impressive feat, as it was to ensure it would stop destroying the town with its battles, not because it's the strongest Pokemon not to mention only a small portion of Arceus's power was used.

I can't recall if Hoopa defeated Rayquaza himself.

Giratina not immediately stomping a Small Planet level, Sub-Relativistic entity is laughable PIS...

I can see what your saying but here's the thing:


Even though Arceus used a small portion of its power, how come it wouldnt be enough to make hoopa the second strongest pokemon under him? I mean in the hoopa movie they are clearly talking about a COMPLETE arceus lending some of its power to seal Hoopa, meanwhile in Arceus's movie, incomplete Arceus used like practically 0 effort to stomp Dialga, Palkia and Giratina. So wouldnt even a tiny amount of Arceus's power be that great if he in an even weaker form can already stomp 3 universal+ beings effortlessly? And i said that statement because Arceus was the only pokemon who COULD seal away hoopa with it's power, which should say something if the god of the verse is needed to beat someone when no one else couldnt Plus in the end of the movie when Hoopa's actions caused a space/time rift that none of the legendaries, not even the creation trio, could stop, Arceus was needed to come in and put an end to it. See what i mean? Im not saying im right if im really wrong i just wanted you to see what i meant by this is all.

As for the rayquaza thing, to BE fair, that rayquaza isnt the same one from Ash's universe or the ORAS game with the small planet level power since it's shiny while the main regular rayquaza is normal colored. It could have come from another world considering Hoopa can summon things from alternate dimensions so why shouldn't THIS rayquaza specifically be comparable to giratina since it's not the same as the ORAS one? It would be like saying movie Darkrai isnt capable of touching Dialga or Palkia in any way even though it was able to block/aborb their time-space attacks. Unless is that pis too?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

I can see what your saying but here's the thing:


Even though Arceus used a small portion of its power, how come it wouldnt be enough to make hoopa the second strongest pokemon under him?"'

Please take note I've read the entirety of your arguments but I'm just quoting the main points as we have a rule against quoting large blocks of texts.

Assuming Hoopa who was completely sealed and helpless by an unquantifiable portion of Arceus's power does not in anyway translate to Hoopa's own power.


I mean in the hoopa movie they are clearly talking about a COMPLETE arceus lending some of its power to seal Hoopa, meanwhile in Arceus's movie, incomplete Arceus used like practically 0 effort to stomp Dialga, Palkia and Giratina. So wouldnt even a tiny amount of Arceus's power be that great if he in an even weaker form can already stomp 3 universal+ beings effortlessly?

As said before, to which he was completely helpless by. Not something scalable.

And i said that statement because Arceus was the only pokemon who COULD seal away hoopa with it's power, which should say something if the god of the verse is needed to beat someone when no one else couldn't

No Limits Fallacy. The Legendary Pokemon Hoopa faced were no stronger than Multi-Continent level. Saying Universe level+ beings couldn't defeat it when they never even combat it is a baseless assumption.

Palkia, Dialga and Giratina are gods who govern the fundamental laws of the Universe. A quarrel in an insignificant town on an insignificant planet with no Ash Ketchum in sight, will obviously not stir their interests in the slightest.

Plus in the end of the movie when Hoopa's actions caused a space/time rift

False. It was clearly stated the rift in space-time was formed from so many Legendary Pokemon appearing in one area. It was not due to Hoopa's power, hence obviously not scalable.

That none of the legendaries, not even the creation trio, could stop, Arceus was needed to come in and put an end to it. See what i mean? Im not saying im right if im really wrong i just wanted you to see what i meant by this is all.

PIS. In the 12th movie, Palkia and Dialga, were each able to close rifts in space-time formed by the awakening of an incomplete Arceus which is a far superior feat, to closing a rift formed from the gathering of infinitely lesser Legendary Pokemon.

As for the rayquaza thing, to BE fair, that rayquaza isnt the same one from Ash's universe or the ORAS game with the small planet level power since it's shiny while the main regular rayquaza is normal colored.


It could have come from another world considering Hoopa can summon things from alternate dimensions so why shouldn't THIS rayquaza specifically be comparable to giratina since it's not the same as the ORAS one?

Because it has absolutely no feats to say it can hang with an Universe level+ entity with infinite speed and not get curbed, especially as it was later defeated by far weaker beings.

It would be like saying movie Darkrai isnt capable of touching Dialga or Palkia in any way even though it was able to block/aborb their time-space attacks. Unless is that pis too?

>Implying a town level entity can hang with Universe level+ entities.

None of the creatures you mentioned have shown any feats to support your powerscaling. Pokemon is a franchise that doesn't support powerscaling.

What you're proposing is no more legitimate than upgrading Wubbefet to Universe level+ for reflecting Giratina's attack or Pikachu for stalemating Arceus. In the end of the day, the creators just pit them against each other regardless of feats as is their right.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Wait, so I'm guessing this is no longer about a theoretical 2B Arceus...

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Yes, this has gotten completely off-topic. I'd appreciate it if Fictional Blade101 completely drops this matter.

 

[FictionalBlade101]

Yes, this has gotten completely off-topic. I'd appreciate it if Fictional Blade101 completely drops this matter.

Kk. Sorry for causing trouble if I did

 

[BruceTheBatman]

This was easy to find Cal

 

[Foggysniper]

Sorry to jump in after 2 days but I'm not sure if this was brought up yet.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-...LKfVKUTwCL0B/w808-h240-no/gplus1013618542.png

You can transfer Pokemon from the original Ruby, Sapphire, or Emerald to ORAS and this is acknowledged ingame (you get a little reward and everything).

Would this be evidence of each copy being a seperate universe since the game acknowledges that RSE is a different timeline from ORAS?