Fusion Zamasu vs Lady Bone Demon [1-8-0] (GRACE)

[Sdjlakjh]

Her Durability is comparable to her AP?

LBD in host form took a full powered kick from Enraged Wukong so I suppose yes

 

[RedReaper616]

Her Durability is comparable to her AP?

Downscales, (she specifically utilizes her powers to injure Wukong, and it’s made very clear she’s a glass cannon relative to others as she was incredibly damaged by Wukong from a handful of blows despite being able to harm him with her attacks), but yeah, she does. She’s similar to a Dragon Ball character in that way.

 

[Catbowtie]

Lifting Strength: Unknown

Lifting Strength: Unknown | Unknown

We live in a society.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

We live in a society.

they both need sum calcs fr

 

[Catbowtie]

What's crazy is that Zamasu was holding Goku down with one arm. So Zamasu should be above whatever Lifting Strength Goku has, but within the same Class.

 

[RedReaper616]

What's crazy is that Zamasu was holding Goku down with one arm. So Zamasu should be above whatever Lifting Strength Goku has, but within the same Class.

The issue is that Dragon Ball lifting strength is silly. For example, Goku can barely wear 250 pounds, or some such, but he can deadlift a presumably multi-ton car. Goku can lift dense planet carving energy blasts, but he’ll struggle with 40 tons. He’ll be able to wear 20 times his body weight, but 10x gravity is a bit too much for him to even walk in during the Saiyan Saga. So on and so forth.

So scaling lifting strength in it is pretty much impossible, really. At least sensibly.

 

[Catbowtie]

I've heard these arguments before. The explanation basically goes like this: KI enhances everything. Goku struggles with stuff because he's not using Ki, but when he's using Ki, he doesn't struggle.

 

[RedReaper616]

I've heard these arguments before. The explanation basically goes like this: KI enhances everything. Goku struggles with stuff because he's not using Ki, but when he's using Ki, he doesn't struggle.

That would work…except Magetta. Vegeta actively uses his Ki and cannot lift 1000 tons. It’s genuinely just a matter of writers cannot math. Also, it wouldn’t change how wildly increased the lifting would be compared to the canon information (due to multipliers.)

 

[Tipper17]

That would work…except Magetta. Vegeta actively uses his Ki and cannot lift 1000 tons. It’s genuinely just a matter of writers cannot math. Also, it wouldn’t change how wildly increased the lifting would be compared to the canon information (due to multipliers.)

That's only in the manga

 

[Lloydblitzed]

That's only in the manga

Also huh who are you voting for?

 

[Tipper17]

Also huh who are you voting for?

Still deciding

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Still deciding

k

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The issue is that Dragon Ball lifting strength is silly. For example, Goku can barely wear 250 pounds, or some such, but he can deadlift a presumably multi-ton car. Goku can lift dense planet carving energy blasts, but he’ll struggle with 40 tons. He’ll be able to wear 20 times his body weight, but 10x gravity is a bit too much for him to even walk in during the Saiyan Saga. So on and so forth.

So scaling lifting strength in it is pretty much impossible, really. At least sensibly.

I heard same stuff is with breathing in space but idk

 

[Tipper17]

Pretty sure the LBD is specifically stated to be using a percentage of her power constantly to keep those she mind + soul donuts in check/under her/taken into her powers. If its Zamasu’s semi-immortal body, she’d be able to affect him (he only massively scales off of 3 Uni), but once Zamasu casts it off he envelops the whole hypertimeline (putting him far beyond her level of power) and as such should be too much for her to attempt that on. Not to mention his Immortal Soul (what is left after he casts off his body) is an abstract, and I’m pretty sure we have no evidence her Soul Manip works on that.

Essentially, LBD could totally ensnare him early battle, but late game he becomes beyond that. (This also applies to her sealing of souls. His Soul is just something beyond what her sealing has shown the capacity to do).

Zamasu negates durability with his Sickle of Sorrow, so the state advantage she has isn’t really going to matter unless she lands a blow, and she can’t really get hit in with his really great and all encompassing Ki barriers, blast waves, clones, etc. While she could dispel the clones, they’re infinitely generating from his rift, and she can’t do anything about that (so she’d have to continually dispel them).

Since he has Goku’s powers, he should be able to sense her attacking his mind beforehand and could potentially stop her, but he has no direct counter to that.

Any damage she does won’t be effective due to his immortality so long as she doesn’t paste him on the molecular level (and she typically does play with her food, and I don’t think she can regardless).

Zamasu’s Ki senses, awareness, etc. should allow him to get around her illusions.

With Instant Transmission he can teleport at will, so BFR won’t work.

This means her main forms of attack are limited to playing on his fears, corrupting him, and, well, hitting him. Problem is, Zamasu’s mind could probably see her mental attacks coming (but could not defend against it directly) and he’s WAAAAY better at fighting than her. She literally almost entirely despite all her powers to Wukong due to just his fisticuffs, and only used her possession type power on him at last second (which means she wouldn’t start with it anyway).

He could also probably sidestep her mental attacks by simply time traveling (ceasing to exist so her mind attacks have no target and appearing in the future to attack her). Also, his omniscient vision and Ki Sensing mean her teleporting away doesn’t matter.

That said, without that scythe (or Infinite form) Zamasu can’t hurt her, making his primary forms of attack irrelevant, his defenses can be broken by just punching with all her force, and if he doesn’t end her quickly she’ll just possess him or attack his mind and leave him beaten if she catches his mind before he can react to his sensing. He can also actually probe her mind first, but he’s never used it in combat.

I think I’ll vote the Lady Bone Demon in a pitched battle, unless someone provides a more surefire means Zamasu can immediately access to defeat her, since unless he goes full Hypertimeline Sore Loser, she can beat him pretty quickly in ways that don’t trigger it (which destroying his body would do) so long as she fights more seriously than normal.

This sums it up for me

 

[Robo432343]

bro you need Low 1-C range to affect zamasu ong
Lady Bone FRA

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

This sums it up for me

So you vote LBD too?

 

[Tipper17]

So you vote LBD too?

yes

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I think it’s grace then, 7-0 in favor of Lady Bone

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Alright, Grace has started

 

[Catbowtie]

Vote's going to Zamasu. Zamasu starts with Durability Negating swords so any one good slice takes her out. Infinite Zamasu would not come out in the fight because it requires him to be obliterated past his Mid-High Regeneration. Zamasu, at one point or another, would hit Lady Bone Demon with his God Split Cut. Doesn't look like Lady Bone Demon has any answers to that besides dodging, even in her True Form can get hit because Zamasu can effect that too with Master Ki Manipulation.


Zamasu's Light of Justice is a separate Tier from his overall Tier?

2-C, higher with Light of Justice

An exception would be if the restricted ability/technique has a separate tier from the main one[...]

Does "higher" count as separate Tier?


Edit: Samadhi Fire is just "even higher"

At least 2-C, likely far higher, even higher with the Samadhi Fire

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Vote's going to Zamasu. Zamasu starts with Durability Negating swords so any one good slice takes her out. Infinite Zamasu would not come out in the fight because it requires him to be obliterated past his Mid-High Regeneration. Zamasu, at one point or another, would hit Lady Bone Demon with his God Split Cut. Doesn't look like Lady Bone Demon has any answers to that besides dodging, even in her True Form can get hit because Zamasu can effect that too with Master Ki Manipulation.

Zamasu is not evading her sight based Mind hax, and she can just spam Crystal + TP to create distance and make herself untouchable, and she could also just nullify his God Split Cut. I also don't see what's stopping her from creating a shield around herself to stop Zamazu's attack and pull out some shadows against Zamasu while being protected, or straight up give him sum of her power, which corrupts the victim

Does "higher" count as separate Tier?
Edit: Samadhi Fire is just "even higher"

Yes it technically does grant them higher into the tier, and even if we include them, Zamasu gets EE'd and its GG

 

[Catbowtie]

Zamasu is not evading her sight based Mind hax, and she can just spam Crystal + TP to create distance and make herself untouchable, and she could also just nullify his God Split Cut. I also don't see what's stopping her from creating a shield around herself to stop Zamazu's attack and pull out some shadows against Zamasu while being protected, or straight up give him sum of her power, which corrupts the victim

This makes it a Stomp match. If Zamasu can do absolutely nothing to counter, prevent, or otherwise avoid Lady Bone Demon's Mind Manipulation, which you have claimed she starts with, then Zamasu couldn't reach any of his win conditions, therefore Stomp. The match would theoretically look like this: Lady Bone Demon and Fusion Zamasu starts 4 Kilometers apart, Zamasu teleports to Lady Bone Demon (or vice versa), then Lady Bone Demon uses Mind Manipulation. Zamasu can do one solid hit on Lady Bone Demon before she uses her Mind Manipulation. Zamasu can't one shot, so it's useless. How is Zamasu feasibly supposed to win, when not only does Lady Bone Demon activate hax sh*tstomp as her first and second moves, but also his only win condition is cutting her with Durability negation. I know I've argued for Zamasu, but I was under the impression that his God Split Cut one shots Lady Bone Demon. If you are saying the equivalent of "Zamasu has no chance of ever hitting Lady Bone Demon," then what can he do? At best, Zamasu is able to dodge her Mind Manipulation before being slammed by Power Absorption (I don't think Zamasu can fathom or even understand this ability

Big Text

This argument says that Zamasu should be able to dodge her Mind Manipulation and magical tricks by using Ki Sensing, but if you are saying that Zamasu couldn't sense and dodge her Mind Manipulation and magical tricks, then it's a stomp. In any other case, I'd vote Lady Bone Demon because Zamasu would yap and throw his own win condition, and that's assuming that Zamasu holds the advantage over any aspect of battle and could even get to that point.

We know the following things (with some provided information by me):

• Anime Zamasu is going to fight solo for the fight. While Manga Zamasu does use clones, Anime Zamasu was not using clones at any point in the entire Future Trunks Arc. So yes, while Anime Zamasu can use clones, he simply doesn't.
  
  
  
• Lady Bone Demon can use Power Absorption after Zamasu uses any one of his abilities (Kai Kai, Instant Transmission, etc) Hopefully, this doesn't extend to Ki Manipulation.
  
  
  
• Lady Bone Demon starts with Mind Manipulation, Illusion Creation, Pain Manipulation, Durability Negation and Fear Manipulation. Llyod argues that this ability couldn't be sensed or dodged by Zamasu despite his abilities.

The entirety of Page 2 is meant to determine the following things:
1. How fast can Lady Bone Demon's Power Absorption & Mind Manipulation (and friends) work.
2. What Zamasu can do against Lady Bone Demon


RedReaper argues that, even despite Lady Bone Demon's Power Absorption, Zamasu can simply stop using his abilities and use the Time Ring, but unless Lady Bone Demon explicitly tells him how her powers work (similar to what she did to MK), he has no way of figuring out and avoiding it. This isn't exactly a problem, because Zamsau can just use the Time Ring to continue to dodge attacks. Zamasu looks to be able to one shot Lady Bone Demon, and he could interact with her True Form off of his Ki Manipulation. I believe that Zamasu could simply dodge her Mind Manipulation and friends. That is not to say that Lady Bone Deon could never hit it, just that an alert Zamasu would realize "I can't resist that. I have to make sure I keep dodging it." Once the corruption ghosts start getting annoying, it'd be the same thing as the Mind Manipulation, and he'd blow up the immediate area using Ki Manipulation. I do think that Zamasu would be able to divorce Lady Bone Demon's torso and waist, and that Lady Bone Demon's True Form would be effected too, therefore a win.

Problem is, Sight-Based Mind Manipulation. I know the word "Sight-Based" literally means she can look at the opponent and activate it, but there is some nuances within Sight-Based abilities. Does it move a distance to the person she looks at? Can she activate it, Zamasu notices the activation, then he dodges it? When the Mind Manipulation and friends are in effect, I'm sure that Zamasu can still fight. Lady Bone Demon looks like she does stop the mental mind**** quintuple when she's talking to MK, and the "interacting through illusions" can be teleported out by Zamasu. Same thing with "taking control of the mind." If Zamasu isn't an idiot (which he won't be. I don't know why I said this) and doesn't try to face tank, he could just dodge it by teleporting.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This makes it a Stomp match.

Huh what?

Zamasu litterally has his Mid-High Regeneration to compensate for the AP gap, which would make him impossible to kill from getting his body obliderated, as well as Dura Negation which seems to be a one shot level hax. That makes Power Absorption, Corruption and Mind Hax her only options of wincoins and def not a Stomp Match

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Sight-Based Mind Manipulation. I know the word "Sight-Based" literally means she can look at the opponent and activate it, but there is some nuances within Sight-Based abilities. Does it move a distance to the person she looks at?

Well she can affect people at a distance from her so....ye?

Can she activate it, Zamasu notices the activation, then he dodges it? When the Mind Manipulation and friends are in effect, I'm sure that Zamasu can still fight. Lady Bone Demon looks like she does stop the mental mind**** quintuple when she's talking to MK, and the "interacting through illusions" can be teleported out by Zamasu. Same thing with "taking control of the mind." If Zamasu isn't an idiot (which he won't be. I don't know why I said this) and doesn't try to face tank, he could just dodge it by teleporting.

If Zamasu notice, he's instanly affected. LDB would have to block his shots but eventually she will be able to reach him anyways

 

[REX9097]

I've read all about Fusion Zamasu's abilities but I don't see any ability that can surpass LDB's Mind Manip. I vote with LDB (funny that it's also higher than Fusion Zamasu in AP)

 

[MintyBoi1]

Lady Bone FRA

 

[Catbowtie]

Huh what?

Zamasu litterally has his Mid-High Regeneration to compensate for the AP gap, which would make him impossible to kill from getting his body obliderated, as well as Dura Negation which seems to be a one shot level hax. That makes Power Absorption, Corruption and Mind Hax her only options of wincoins and def not a Stomp Match

That doesn't make it not a Stomp match. Her Mind Manipulation (which is a move you've said she starts with) isn't effected by Zamasu's Mid-High Regeneration. It doesn't matter that his body regenerates AP damage becuse 10 times out of 10 Lady Bone Demon starts with Mind Manipulation. The reason it's a Stomp match is because there's nothing Zamasu can do to win when Lady Bone Demon starts with Mind Hax. If I'm correct in the assumption that Lady Bone Demon's Mind Manipulation defeats Zamasu instantly as soon as it's used or has little time for Zamasu to reasonably do anything to win, it's a stomp. You yourself have said the Mind Manipulation is unavoidable, so I am trying to see if Zamasu could feasibly teleport out of the attacks that happen during her mental quintuple mind**** or at least be able to win within that time period. If he can't, it's a Stomp. It he can, it isn't a Stomp,

If Zamasu notice, he's instanly affected. LDB would have to block his shots but eventually she will be able to reach him anyways

Okay. I'm going to assume that Zamasu can teleport out of the mental mind**** quintuple so they can scrap. In that case, I believe Zamasu's one shot Durability Negation could be more easily achieved than Lady Bone Demon's mental abilities incapacitating Zamasu.