Fixing Some Shin Megami Tensei Scaling

[Ionliosite]

Ngl, I hadn't noticed all these issues on our SMT profiles until after I applies the latest revision. Since most of the issues were solved last time, I'm just bringing the one that stood up the most to me, and one that has been discussed for a while.

1. The scaling of the Divine Angels is awful. Ever since the Powers, all others are scaled to harming First Form Shesha, who's superior to Odin, who's superior to Lilith, who's comparable to Gabriel. So yes, we're unironically saying a Power is above the Archangel Gabriel in the scaling chain. Considering Powers shouldn't even be on the same level as regular Archangels like Aniel, them suddenly scaling to the Cardinal Archangels would be a ridiculous outlier and needs to be replaced with another reasoning.

2. Scaling YHVH to Canopus is a no-no. Canopus only appears once in the entire franchise, Devil Survivor 2, where YHVH isn't as much as mentioned, any way to scale one to the other is an unbased stretch, and should be removed from the profile. But fear not, as YHVH won't be donwgraded, since we can just replace his scaling to the Kuzuryu and keep him on the same tier.

 

[DMUA]

Ever since the Powers, all others are scaled to harming First Form Shesha, who's superior to Odin, who's superior to Lilith, who's comparable to Gabriel. So yes, we're unironically saying a Power is above the Archangel Gabriel in the scaling chain.

 

[Ionliosite]

Pretty much my reaction when I noticed that.

 

[DMUA]

I don't even know why first form Shesha would be that strong when Nanashi and co dealt with them just fine with a special weapon (Which wouldn't help their durability and thus ability to actually take Shesha's attacks in turn)

and of course a forking power of all things being able to damage them

 

[Ionliosite]

First Form Shesha scales from Odin, but for your argument, one of those weapons was literally Michael's Spear, and the other was Shesha's weakness, so I don't think those mean much for Shesha's scaling. Now, a Power scaling to this is an obvious issue.

 

[DMUA]

I don't remember much of Apocalypse mostly because it was utter trash and I despise it to this day, I'm mostly just slightly iffy on Shesha being superior to Odin. Wasn't the main danger of Shesha just their wild, rampant destruction and the fact they weren't that easy to kill as opposed to just being outright stronger than someone Nanashi and co fight way later on?

 

[Armorchompy]

I don't remember any direct comparison being made between the Divine Powers' power level. In fact iirc there isn't even anything saying Krishna's the strongest, though I'm not arguing against that. But Shesha's power is impressive and he's the reason the truce between Law and Chaos is made.

 

[Antvasima]

Ionliosite seems to make sense to me.

Should I notify some staff members to come here, and if so, do you have any suggestions?

 

[Eganergo]

Somehow related, what about DeSu and SMT cross-scaling? Is it still legit?

 

[Ionliosite]

It's not cross-scaling tho, DeSu is part of the Megami Tensei franchise, so both are connected.

Should I notify some staff members to come here, and if so, do you have any suggestions?

Yes, we obviously need staff input here. The one's listed on the verse should be more than enough.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

@Elizhaa @TISSG7Redgrave @Matthew_Schroeder @Amelia_Lonelyheart @Dragonmasterxyz @Ultima_Reality @Assaltwaffle @The_real_cal_howard @Super_Saiyan_God_Julian

We would appreciate your input here.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yeah, I agree with this, we’ve been talked on YHVH not scaling.

 

[Armorchompy]

Out of curiosity, since I don't really understand tier 1 that well, would he be weaker now, or is the Kuzuryu's feat similar to Canopus'?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

It’s similar, but Canopus will be stronger than that feat. For a different thread, though.

 

[Tyranno223]

So Kuzuryu level character and above are gonna stay Low 1C? What about Lucifer and those who scale around him

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Low 1-C as well.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

1. The scaling of the Divine Angels is awful. Ever since the Powers, all others are scaled to harming First Form Shesha, who's superior to Odin, who's superior to Lilith, who's comparable to Gabriel. So yes, we're unironically saying a Power is above the Archangel Gabriel in the scaling chain. Considering Powers shouldn't even be on the same level as regular Archangels like Aniel, them suddenly scaling to the Cardinal Archangels would be a ridiculous outlier and needs to be replaced with another reasoning.

Yeah the Powers Scaling sucks.

2. Scaling YHVH to Canopus is a no-no. Canopus only appears once in the entire franchise, Devil Survivor 2, where YHVH isn't as much as mentioned, any way to scale one to the other is an unbased stretch, and should be removed from the profile. But fear not, as YHVH won't be donwgraded, since we can just replace his scaling to the Kuzuryu and keep him on the same tier.

Yeah Kuzuryu and some other dudes can destroy the entire Demon World.

 

[Armorchompy]

Low 1-C as well.

Possibly Low 1-C as they are now, or just straight up Low 1-C?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Possibly Low 1-C as they are now, or just straight up Low 1-C?

Well, I’m trying to get them to Low 1-C, but since I’m virtually alone on the SMT scale since Yvel left, it’ll be a while.

 

[Armorchompy]

DM me that thread when it starts- I'm not knowledgeable on the entirety of the verse, but i'd like to check it out.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I guess, I doubt it’ll be up for a couple months, since I’m trying to upgrade a lot more than that.

 

[Tyranno223]

Sorry if this is irrelevant, but isn't Abel somewhat overblown in his profile? While he can beat Metatron and Lucifer, it's never stated he's above the combined might of Metatron and the Archangels, in fact he never faces their combined might since he interupts Metatron from summoning them.

Plus Metatron (as the Lesser YHVH) ends up tanking the attacks Abel sends him (albeit he's forced to flee afterwards) and even states he'll face him again in the war between demons and heaven, implying Abel isn't too far above him.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Couldn’t tell, dunno the original DeSu.

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

Plus Metatron (as the Lesser YHVH) ends up tanking the attacks Abel sends him

Abel wasn't the one attacking Metatron, it was Beldr and Belial.

 

[Tyranno223]

Ah right, but even so, that dosen't change the fact they interrupted him.

 

[Ionliosite]

Guys, that's derailment, leave it to another thread. This is one is about the Divine Angels.

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

yeah the thread itself seems fine

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here?

 

[Ionliosite]

Well, everyone agreed with the Powers scaling to Shesha being horribly wrong, so that's getting removed and the angels get downgraded based on that. Meanwhile, YHVH gets his AP description changed so it links to the Kuzuryu instead of Canopus, but his AP itself remains the same.

 

[Tyranno223]

Would the angels change to just low 2c then?

 

[Ionliosite]

Only the Seraph would have any reason to be Low 2-C. All other forms are "Unknown" unless someone has other feats.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I’m gonna run through SMT, like all of it, so I’ll try & find some stuff.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, everyone agreed with the Powers scaling to Shesha being horribly wrong, so that's getting removed and the angels get downgraded based on that. Meanwhile, YHVH gets his AP description changed so it links to the Kuzuryu instead of Canopus, but his AP itself remains the same.

Thank you. That is probably fine to apply then.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Late but yeah seems legit

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

I agree with this CRT

 

[Antvasima]

Has anybody applied what has been agreed here yet?

 

[Ionliosite]

Yes, I applied what was accepted. Althought, I would wait and see if Milly will answer has anything else to say considering his last post was:

I’ll try & find some stuff.

So don't close this just yey.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yes, I applied what was accepted. Althought, I would wait and see if Milly will answer has anything else to say considering his last post was:

So don't close this just yey.

Oh no, I meant towards my big CRT. You can close this I guess.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

why is the kuzuryu feat Low 1C? A plane beyond space-time does not mean automatically make it 5D

 

[Antvasima]

So should I close this or not?