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Fire Emblem Heroes.

Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress

Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress

1,413
65
FE fan here, as you can tell by my picture.


Anyways, i was looking thru the profiles, there are a bit of changes/upgrades i would like to suggest.

2afeh
First, the universes are infinite.

In paralogue 19, Sharena asks Alfonse about how they are able to meet another version of themselves, and Alfonse here claims that the worlds (realms) are infinite, as thus, Veronica with Tempest should be upgraded to 2-A.

Alfonso is a decently decent student, and there is no reason why he should be lying about knowing that the realms are infinite.


Second, the heroes´s AP.

While i dont think 9-A is completely correcct, there are multiple feats that could be used to potentially increase that AP for him and the rest of the heroes they summon.


1.-Fire Emblem Threarythm.

Those heavely armored units you see?

They can make em fly across the screen in less than a second.

https://youtu.be/fqXdaL1N9zA?t=37s

Seriously, just look at that. It might still be 9-A, but the way they make that possibly hundred kg fighter fly across the screen that casually makes me shiver.


2.-Smite

Characters like Effie can use this Support Skill to push enemies push allies thru mountains. And the poor miserable that gets pushed also endures being pushed thru mountains.

Yeah, it might be a game mecchanic, but so is breaking walls to progress.

This would scale to everyone because anyone can fight Effie and everyone can inherit that skill from her.


3.-Scaled from Canon

Yeah, they are technically alternate versions from countless different realms, but some ccharacters like Sigurd (Who is technically dead) reference stuff directly from the adventures they are from, which would mean that the events of that unit´s life still happened, and for this sigurd, was the Tier 8 BBQ.

In the Love Paralogue event, Hector references the facct that he is dead in the world LA Lilina came from, this is obviously a reference to Hector´s death in FE6, so this indeed happened in LA Lilina´s world, which means FE7 happened, and the tier 6 feats should too.


4.-Tempest

Totally not Lucina and her gang of heroes fight the bosses Veronica put in place for them to fight, each time the event ends, Marth claims that the effects of Tempest are temporally weakened, which would put all of the units at tier 2 by affecting at least part of a 2-A storm.

But eh, this one might be a bit fishy.
 
The Tempest isn't shown to effect an infinite amount of worlds, the exact amount it actually effects is unknown, but I'd say that the Tempest is definitely above baseline 2-C

I don't think we should scale from Tap Battle, as the same enemies can damage your Heroes, and even the allied heroes of bosses can be oneshotted

I don't know about scaling from Smite either, but other users should probably give input on that

Scaling from Canon is very... difficult...for Heroes, everything did happen, but the scaling would be very inconsistent, we'd have units ranging from the Building level GBA games, the Town level Archanea and Tellius timeline characters, Large Country level scaling from Marth, Alm, and Grima, City level scaling to Corrin given that the Yato appears to be the Omega Yato, and 6-A/High 6-A scaling to Elibe's Divine weapons

4. I'm thinking that the tempest weakening is a natural part of the Trials, and that completing them weakens the Tempest. I believe Grima stated that his defeat would've weakened it.

Although, given the Echoes Tempest Trials, Alm and Celica both had to complete their own Tempest Trial in order to weaken the Tempest (Basically because they were both the main characters)

That should probably mean something
 
1. The realms spreading infinitely looks interesting. Not sure if that means infinite number of realms, or if the realms are individually contain an infinite amount of 3-D space, but I'll wait for @JSW to comment. The tap battle thing also looks good, especially them launching horses, but it's preferable to calc the speed of them getting launched. Might get good results.

2. Might be good, but we need scans. The first one at least had scans.

3. That's sounds a lot like cross-scaling. Just because Non-canon references story events that happened in a canon continuuity, doesn't mean we should use that for scaling from original canons. It's not like the reference is the actual feats such as dodging lightning or being durable enough to survive the AP of lightning.

4. That one seems very iffy. Veronica is not tier 2 physical or combat wise, it's only via specific hax. That's the real reason we don't scale to everyone.
 
Alrighto.


1.-I do think that Tempest does connect the multiple worlds seen in the story thus far, and thus, might be reasonable to be scaled to Alfonse´s infinite timeline statement imo. Its not like Tempest is battle aplicable anyways.


2.-Well, they DO come back after being flown across the screen several times until you beat the leader.


3.-Smite does allow you to push people thru mountains, that might be something on the tier 7 range imo, but again, a game mechanic.

4.-If everyone is able to hurt each other, then everyone should have be High 6-A to match the strongest hero possible, i suppose.

5.-And weakening Tempest should be a tier 2 feat in my opinion, since weakening anything on that level even if just a fraction is still quite impresive.
 
@Medeus

2.-Try the need tactic drills Basic 15, or just equip anyone with smite and launch them thru a mountain to the other side.

3.-Well, yeah, but they are still referencing feats fat above tier 9.

4.-Sure, but she is still able to summon that.
 
2. I meant link a video demonstrating that stuff or something.

3. What feats? All I heard where statements about story events or characters dying. Was their any meteor tanking or lightning bolt dodging feats mentioned? And if so, link video showcasing evidence.
 
1. Depends on if we treat Tap Battle as FEH canon or not.

2. It makes more sense to assume the units are being pushed over the tiles rather than through them. The obstacles like mountains/trees still block you after the fact, so through doesn't really make sense. It's still pretty impressive in the case of mountains though.

3. Idk, since I wasn't there for the decision to not use canon versions. I'll let someone else answer this. I think it had something to do with everyone and their mother automatically scaling to the top tiers from canon. Don't quote me on that though.

4. You're right that is fishy. Every unit becoming tier 2 isn't gonna happen. Even if it were a legit feat it'd be an outlier. Going back through the events though, i did notice that the Falchion seems to somehow counteract the Tempest. Alm: "The Tempest seems to be getting weaker." Lucina Marth: "Your Falchion cut through its chaos." Might just be flowery language though. I'll keep going through the events to see if i notice something else. It definitely seems like anything to do with the tempest is out of their control though.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
1. The realms spreading infinitely looks interesting. Not sure if that means infinite number of realms, or if the realms are individually contain an infinite amount of 3-D space, but I'll wait for @JSW to comment.
Click to expand...
It's Infinite realms, it was the explanation as to why we could meet Spring Alfonse and Sharena, Alfonse also explains as to how there's different versions of Kiran as well

Anna had also previously stated that there are countless worlds
 
Oh yeah i forgot.

You can also smite allies thru water, and since those guys cannot stand on water, it implies that they are not being "lifted" in any way above the ground nor being phased, they are being physiccally pushed thru the obstacle.
 
You mean over water? The unit using smite never crosses the tile themselves, they just push someone else over it. Visually being pushed "through" is game mechanics.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
3. Was their any meteor tanking or lightning bolt dodging feats mentioned? And if so, link video showcasing evidence.
Click to expand...
Mae says something about using "actual lightning" during one of the tap battles.
 
It was a reference to her line in Echoes when she's bragging about being better than Boey due to having the Thunder spell while Boey hasn't learned it yet

Also, RNG doesn't exist in FEH, so we never get to see anyone dodge except Bolting exists in every single universe in canon, so it probably can be considered
 
Getting Smited over the mountain might yield good results. We can't really pixel scale since game mechanics make the river/mountains look so tiny. But launching someone a couple hundred meters would be something like this. Weight of a horse is about 1000 kg, Mountains are at least 300 meters, and gravity of Earth is 9.807 m/s. Potential energy 1000 * 300 * 9.807 = 2,942,100 joules which is only Wall level actually. Pushing them over a river would likely yield an even lower result sadly.
 
@Asuka how is breaking walls a game mechanic... Regardless, there's no reason units shouldn't be able to be pushed over a river when they can be pushed over trees and mountains. In fact, it would be much easier.
 
Alright I'll bite.

1.

JustSomeWeirdo said:
The Tempest isn't shown to effect an infinite amount of worlds, the exact amount it actually effects is unknown, but I'd say that the Tempest is definitely above baseline 2-C
Click to expand...
I pretty much agree with JSW here, I mean at BEST it could be "possibly 2-A" with more evidence, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

2. Smite was really the only applicable way, and it came up around Wall level.
 
Pushing someone thru a montain wall level? I would like to see this "calc" of yours.


And, i do disagree its the only applicable way, do you have anything that contradicts the proof ive posted on the OP?
 
We already whent over why they aren't being pushed "through" the mountain, but over it... and DDM is the one who calced it, you can see if you scroll up. If you want to see a calc for being pushed theough a mountain though, you should ask a calc group member.

We went over your other points too.
 
Sorry, but that is just not true, Edwel. We have not discussed that fact, and there is no agreement that you are not actually being pushed thru the montain.


Try again, and this time proof legit proof.
 
We can't pixel scale; otherwise we get a rather lowballed result. We'll have to assume the baseline for a Mountain's size which is 300 meters tall. Since there's proper cinematic time frame, we'll have to use free falling feats on the Calculations page. Horses can weigh 840 to 2200 pounds, which the high end is roughly 1000 kg. I'll highball it and assume the person wearing armor is 200 kg. Acceleration due to gravity on Earth is 9.807 m/s^2. 1200 kg * 9.807 m/s^2 * 300 m = 3,530,520 Joules which is Wall level. And even if we high balled it and assumed the mountain was 10 or even 30 times taller; 3 to 9 km; the result would be Small Building level. Still not too impressive, but It might yield a legit lifting strength feat.
 
The only one who doesn't agree is you, but you're free to try changing my mind again. What's your argument?
 
First, stop going to my thread and say "all of your shit is wrong" without posting the reasoning behing why each and every single one of the forms the verse could be upgraded, its insulting.


Second, while the montain feat being wall level could be accurate (despite it seems absolutely weird that being pushed thru a mountain is wall level), there are still THREE methods you have not adressed.

2.1 - You have not calced nor disproven the threatrythm feat.

2.2 - You have not disproved the fact the heroes could be scaled from the feats they are referecing, like FE7´s Tier 6 Feats and FE4´s 8-A explotion.

2.3 - You have not disproven the fact that the heroes can weaken a 2-C to 2-A event.

---


About Tempest-

It has been shown and stated multiple times by Lucina that the tempest affects all of the worlds at once, and stablishes chaos in everysingle one of them. If you affect an infinite ammount of realms (as proven by Alfonse´s statement), then its flat out 2-A.


Seriously, name two differences between this scenario and i dunno, Madoka Magica´s.

You used a statement to make Godoka´s infite timeline witch erasure 2-A, how is this any different?
 
First, I'm sorry if I offended you. But i never said "all your shit is wrong", I said we've been over your points before. If it came off as condescending or dismissive then I'm sorry.

As for the argument:

(Edited out since JSW did it better.)
 
2.1 - Scaling from oneshotting enemies capable of damaging them, and from oneshotting other Heroes, possibly even themselves, and then being comparable to other Heroes when they appear as bosses is extremely inconsistent

2.2 - Scaling from Building, Town, City, Country, Large Country, Continent, and Multi-Continent level characters at the same time is even more inconsistent than Tap Battle

2.3 - It's been stated that the tempest weakens upon clearing the trial, heck, even Grima says "Come to me... You have no choice, since the only way to escape the Tempest is to defeat me." and most of the stories end with the defeat of the boss

and about the Tempest being 2-A...tell me which Tempest Trial it's stated to effect every single world, because I legitimately do not recall any statements of the Tempest effecting every world, and I'm reading through the scripts now
 
2.1 seems reasonable enough.

2.2, this i disagree, every hero references events from their own games, and pretty much depend on those feats for their plot to make sense in the first place. So they should all scale to the strongest possible tier.

2.3 Yeah, but they are still affecting it, and 9-A or lower characters casting spells or attacks far above what they do naturally is nothing new to ficction, and fire emblem is no different. Sorry, but you got debunked here. Veronica is even an example of this in-verse.

---

First one, as i said before.
 
You mean Dark Clouds Over Awakening?

Robin (Male): So this is... The Tempest. The source of the chaos that has engulfed our world.

???: That's right. If we don't do something about it...destruction is all we have to look forward to. The Tempest distorts time and space. Worlds become entangled...and they begin to mix.

Robin (Female): The fact that all of us are meeting like this is proof of that, I'd say.

???: In another world, there are more like us-those who fight against the Tempest. They are our ray of hope. If we work together, we can change the future... I'm sure of it.

Lucina: Of course we can! Let's fight to get our future back!

After Finishing the Tempest Trials

Robin (Male): "The Tempest is weakening, it seems.

Lissa: They never even saw us coming! Now, come on! We've got to tell my brother all about what we did.

Nowi: Hee hee! We're the best!

Tharja: It's all thanks to the power of my love. It's twice as potent right now, so I'm twice as strong as usual. Heh.

???: Our true gratitude should go to the warriors from the other world. They fought at our side as true heroes. Unfortunately, we do not know when the Tempest will strike again. I must find a way we can fight back... I refuse to let any world be consumed by despair. Not if I have any say

Nope, not there, you can even double check for me if you'd like Here and even here
 
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