[FINALS] 1st Crosstier Tournament - Laser Frogman vs. Akumo (0-1-4)

[ExSENNA]

The Time has come! Welcome to the Final Battle of the 1st Crosstier Tournament! (Event Leaderboard)

This battle will determine the fate of the Tournament and all contestants in it! It is the ultimate clash between two victors, who have won all their encounters so far. A Clash between two indomitable wills!!
The winning character of this Clash will receive a Gold Medal, and will be cemented as the Champion!
The losing character of this Clash will receive a Silver Medal !
On the red corner, we have Laser Frogman, submitted by @Froggytron!
On the blue corner, we have Akumo, submitted by @VeneficaAuthor!
Duel Finale, Clash of Victors, Let's Go!

---

Will of Evolution Akumo is used.
Stage 4 Frogman with equipment is used.
Speed equalized.
The location is Roman Forum, Rome, Italy
Starting distance is 10 meters.

Frogman:
Akumo: 1 - @Phoenks
Incon (coin flip): 4 - @VeneficaAuthor, @Froggytron, @MintyBoi1, @ExSENNA

 

[Froggytron]

Stage 4, being a war chief with thousands of years worth of experience, will start as always by looking with Sin vision and Energy Vision, yet the sight almost frightens him. Every fragment of a second he can register, he sees Akumo's energy just becoming bigger and bigger. To see more clearly, experienced stage 4 develops a deep hidden precognition organ (with extreme speeds), even with very blurry vision, he can tell the hell Akumo's Rapid Evolution Phenomenon could do.

Stage 4 (having Moon APtor active) draws both Red Sabers and with elegant spinning motion wields them to the sky, turning them into fearsome double Dragon Blades being 3,5 meters long.

• Dragon Blade - The Red Saber thickens in size along with animating numerous smaller Dragon heads on its blade side. During a swing, the Dragon blade speed and AP accelerate exponentially. Upon hit, the smaller Dragon heads can tear big parts of the soul, AP, intangible body pieces, and parts of life out of the foe, sensing them multiplies 'Conceptual fear' as well, if it's activated.

To boost his speed even further, Frogman further merges them together, so each Dragon Blade strengthens as much as possible from the other one. With a step backward and a massive swing, Stage 4-wielding Blades starts spinning at speeds beyond fascinating, using Red Laser Trails & Explosions from legs and body to further build up bigger rotating speed. To protect himself from Akumo at his sides, Frogman summons a few dozen clones using their arsenal to the fullest at shielding (like using barricades of lase blood shields, etc). The building of extreme rotating speeds comes with the price of the whole spinning Frogman moving slowly at first (at Akumo), taking about 1,8-2,5 seconds till he gets there (as the spinning Frogman also starts to accelerate in Akumo's direction, Akumo probably starts to feel the rotations distorting the very space around them, not mentioning the Roman Forum, Rome, Italy arena just getting totally wrecked as Frogman gets closer).

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Stage 4, being a war chief with thousands of years worth of experience, will start as always by looking with Sin vision and Energy Vision, yet the sight almost frightens him.

Akumo should be pretty low on Sin Meter (especially with Akumo prior to this key defeating many pretty evil Monsters), not sure if Frogman would use killing moves during this despite the terrifying energy.

Stage 4 (having Moon APtor active) draws both Red Sabers and with elegant spinning motion wields them to the sky, turning them into fearsome double Dragon Blades being 3,5 meters long.

• Dragon Blade - The Red Saber thickens in size along with animating numerous smaller Dragon heads on its blade side. During a swing, the Dragon blade speed and AP accelerate exponentially. Upon hit, the smaller Dragon heads can tear big parts of the soul, AP, intangible body pieces, and parts of life out of the foe, sensing them multiplies 'Conceptual fear' as well, if it's activated.

To boost his speed even further, Frogman further merges them together, so each Dragon Blade strengthens as much as possible from the other one. With a step backward and a massive swing, Stage 4-wielding Blades starts spinning at speeds beyond fascinating, using Red Laser Trails & Explosions from legs and body to further build up bigger rotating speed. To protect himself from Akumo at his sides, Frogman summons a few dozen clones using their arsenal to the fullest at shielding (like using barricades of lase blood shields, etc). The building of extreme rotating speeds comes with the price of the whole spinning Frogman moving slowly at first (at Akumo), taking about 1,8-2,5 seconds till he gets there (as the spinning Frogman also starts to accelerate in Akumo's direction, Akumo probably starts to feel the rotations distorting the very space around them, not mentioning the Roman Forum, Rome, Italy arena just getting totally wrecked as Frogman gets closer).

The 1.8-2.5 second timeframe is enough for Akumo to do pretty much whatever he wants, given that he upscales pretty good from this feat and is also getting faster passively and with every movement, no matter how small. Seeing his opponent with an unexpected powerful arsenal, Akumo will believe that this is the opponent he needs to defeat to achieve his goals of resetting the world, so he won't hold back.

Rapid Evolution and Mimicry gives Akumo the ability to summon equal clones as Frogman once he sees them appear. Realizing this, Akumo will use his power and create almost as many clones as Frogman made, and half of the Akumo clones will attack the defense from every side with an Eight Way Thunderclap.

• Akumo slams all of his hands together, which sends a vibration of obliteration which reduces enemies and objects to dust on contact. The sound wave it generates is also deadly. With Eight hands, this is much more effective.

The other half all stand between the clapping clones and begin to spam Mortum Bursts from six of their arms in the same direction to further hinder the defense. In addition to being packed with ever increasing energy, the blasts leave behind a burning status effect which will erode the defense even more. With their final two arms, they will start (twice every few seconds, one from each hand) producing Mortum Spiral Bursts.

Meanwhile, the real Akumo, while in the process of jumping away from Frogman using Ninja movements, will use a martial arts move (using his top four hands) causing slashes over Frogman which mimics a combo of Nuclear Slash and Whirlwind Iron Cutting Fist, which would slice up Frogman about twice as well as this. He will use his lower hands shoot extra Mortum Bursts right atop of Frogman, then his lowest hands to create a few Mortum Spiral Bursts and have them begin to circle around himself (each second they move without hitting anything raises their AP + getting stronger passively as Akumo does, making for a double whammy). With the Ninja Movements, Akumo is also able to get out of Dragon Saber range quickly after his slash attack. He will also evolve two new arms from his back and curving upwards which will begin the mimicry process of Frogman's red sabers (his arms begin looking like Red Saber handles, before long becoming entire Red Sabers).

 

[Froggytron]

Akumo should be pretty low on Sin Meter (especially with Akumo prior to this key defeating many pretty evil Monsters), not sure if Frogman would use killing moves during this despite the terrifying energy.

It's true that would lessen Frogman's hostility. Yet at this point, Frogman becomes "the opponent he needs to defeat to achieve his goals of resetting the world", the time for talk is lost. And Frogman is also in a tournament with the task of making FU famous in this world, getting utterly defeated would mean a 99% mission failure. In this arena and in this world, stage 4 Frogman "is FU itself". Making connections can come after showing strength to those unable to listen.

Rapid Evolution and Mimicry gives Akumo the ability to summon equal clones as Frogman once he sees them appear. Half of the Akumo clones will attack the defense from every side with an Eight Way Thunderclap. The other half all stand between the clapping clones and begin to spam Mortum Bursts from six of their arms in the same direction to further hinder the defense.

With the Ninja Movements, Akumo is also able to get out of Dragon Saber range quickly after his slash attack. He will also evolve two new arms from his back and curving upwards which will begin the mimicry process of Frogman's red sabers.

Furthermore, as Frogman advances at (now evading Akumo), these are the two things frightening him. "Just what on earth is this guy's potential, more, I need to bring even MORE firepower!" Stage 4 manages to add another effect blade on the current Dragon Blades he is spinning with.

• Chainsaw Saber - All Red Saber energy concentrates into a smaller rotating chainsaw. By this, the Chainsaw Saber trades slower swinging movements with a maximal range of just 5 meters for 10x bigger AP (of the Chainsaw blade only).

With this combination, the smaller Dragon heads on the Saber start to orbit it like the singular blades of a chainsaw. As Stage 4 doesn't need range, this makes the combined mode even faster, even more damaging, and even more frightening. A nightmare weapon is altered. Frogman continues his rotations nearing at the point Akumo was standing 1,3 seconds in the past. While the clones manage to block Mortum Bursts mostly easily (summoning new and new Laser Blood shields to absorb damage and corrosion of Bursts, then disappearing with it & getting replaced by new ones), the main Frogman tanks the 'Eight Way Thunderclap' (armor's damage reduction & body damage reduction [skin and bones] & Low-High regen), while smaller dragon heads on the blades suck in and consume all Mortum Bursts spheres of corrupted energy coming near main Frogman.

And with excellent timing, the Blades rotating at speeds "breaking speeds" around Frogman (scratched by 'Eight Way Thunderclap') get to the point Akumo was standing exactly 2 seconds ago. Frogman, noticing the clones of Akumo growing stronger and just all the mess he made in just 2 seconds, smiles menacingly (mid-spoilers past 4:15!), as he focuses on 3 words in his head:

TWO,
SECOND,
REWIND!
===>

Spoiler: For those wanting to hear how it actually works

OST here if you wanna have a more epic time while reading past this point, it fits I promise.
To understand how Two Second Rewind really works, one must see how Frogmen observe the world. In addition to their 5 senses, Frogmen in the present also sense standing on a giant, red laser lake. All in the present (like a standing building) combined with events happening (like a dog running around the building), seem to endlessly "dive" into the red lake, getting non-stop replaced by a new "present" (building still standing and dog moving slightly). Frogman can actually see "the old images of the present" diving into the lake, becoming less and less visible the deeper they get. And of course, like when a child manages to pull out a teddy bear fallen to the lake (just before teddybear dives deep enough), Frogman can pull factors from "the old images of the present", as far his hand can reach.

In order to be able to revert many factors out in a single moment of time, Frogmen most of the time use their Red Laser Hands controlled by their mind instead of their own physical ones, Red Laser Hands representing the total Red Laser Energy a Frogman possesses. Rather than milliseconds with a physical hand, Red Laser Hands of stage 3 can go '2 seconds deep'. And Red Laser Hands of stage 4 can go either '2 seconds deep', or '3 seconds deep', each stage able to multi-reach past objects even deeper. It's an impressive feat (given how long of a distance 2 or 3 seconds represents, with each second containing a quantum of "old images of the present"), being hard to replicate and even harder to sense. It takes dozens of rewinds made in front of new stage 3s, for new stage 3s to even register what is going on. From the outside, the best way to describe it is by calling it "magic".

-Akumo clones disappear, along with Akumo's ability to summon them, being replaced by their non-existence 2 seconds ago
-Both 'Mortum Spiral Bursts' of Akumo and his clones vanish from existence, being replaced by their non-existence 2 seconds ago
-Scratches on the main Frogman from 'Eight Way Thunderclap' get repaired as if nothing happened, Frogman's body is healed by copying the one unscratched 2 seconds ago
-Akumo's additional hands developing Red Sabers vanish, along with Akumo's ability to summon the handles, being replaced by their non-existence 2 seconds ago
-But most important of all, Akumo's position gets reverted to the place, he stood at exactly 2 seconds ago

At the speeds these two are operating, thousands of cuts go through Akumo before he even realizes what happened, or his Enhanced Instinctive Reaction manages to get away. Stage 4 put so much power into accelerating the rotations, that they happen way faster beyond Frogman's thoughts as well. It's the body of stage 4 this time combined with rotations not being 100% balanced in the first place, able to use the slashes at least somehow effectively enough to slash whole Akumo's giant body into the tiniest plates and cubes, not letting a single part alone. 'Decay Burning' takes action right away, able to burn these plates and cubes so thin along with their blood (each plate burns singularly from all sides) pretty much right away, giving Akumo minimal chances of adapting to it in time.

Furthermore, the preparation Stage 4 Frogman made takes action, the damage each strike deals should go way above 5-C (guaranteeing to bypass Akumo's Extremely High durability with ease merging with properties of Red Saber), the Dragon Heads further tearing so many parts of Akumo's soul, AP and likely other stats with each single strike to add another KO factors into the attack Frogman gambled most of his arsenal at. Also, the fact Dragon Heads are orbiting around the Saber shouldn't go unnoticed, greatly speeding up the process of Akumo's annihilation. Frogman will use the Blades rotating for many more seconds after Akumo's body perishes, just to be sure he doesn't rewind with some similar power. The odds of Akumo adapting to all of this are beyond minimal, the best Akumo's win coin would be putting all effort and clones at attacking the main Frogman during these 2 seconds he traveled, yet the amount of Frogman's defensive properties combined with the fact Frogman 100% recovers after using 2-second-rewind to proceed the final attack perfectly also lowers Akumo chances, leaving Frogman with better odds in most of scenarios.

Spoiler: What would Frogman say upon proceeding with the final attack?

Frogman spending 99% of his current stamina slowly draws out the Chainsaw Dragon Blades, using the last of his strength to alter an A.T. shield to bow on one knee, breathing heavily (as all area around is totally nuked, no land to stand on). As the immense strength of Akumo's EXP gathers in him, refreshing his stamina, Stage 4 Frogman says sentences to himself.

"Forcing me to use my final attack at first, you devil. Yet, when my Dragon Blades were slashing you into nothingness, I felt you weren't necessarily evil, just as the sin vision showed, you just took things in a bad direction. I will intercede to my boss about rewinding your older self from the present, buried deep in history. And then, with morals similar to us, we can reset this world together, free of all high sin-meters, as two brothers should."

Unless other game-changing strengths of Akumo are put on the table,

Stage 4 Frogman FRA

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

It's true that would lessen Frogman's hostility. Yet at this point, Frogman becomes "the opponent he needs to defeat to achieve his goals of resetting the world", the time for talk is lost. And Frogman is also in a tournament with the task of making FU famous in this world, getting utterly defeated would mean a 99% mission failure. In this arena and in this world, stage 4 Frogman "is FU itself". Making connections can come after showing strength to those unable to listen.


Furthermore, as Frogman advances at (now evading Akumo), these are the two things frightening him. "Just what on earth is this guy's potential, more, I need to bring even MORE firepower!" Stage 4 manages to add another effect blade on the current Dragon Blades he is spinning with.

• Chainsaw Saber - All Red Saber energy concentrates into a smaller rotating chainsaw. By this, the Chainsaw Saber trades slower swinging movements with a maximal range of just 5 meters for 10x bigger AP (of the Chainsaw blade only).

With this combination, the smaller Dragon heads on the Saber start to orbit it like the singular blades of a chainsaw. As Stage 4 doesn't need range, this makes the combined mode even faster, even more damaging, and even more frightening. A nightmare weapon is altered. Frogman continues his rotations nearing at the point Akumo was standing 1,3 seconds in the past. While the clones manage to block Mortum Bursts mostly easily (summoning new and new Laser Blood shields to absorb damage and corrosion of Bursts, then disappearing with it & getting replaced by new ones), the main Frogman tanks the 'Eight Way Thunderclap' (armor's damage reduction & body damage reduction [skin and bones] & Low-High regen), while smaller dragon heads on the blades suck in and consume all Mortum Bursts spheres of corrupted energy coming near main Frogman.

And with excellent timing, the Blades rotating at speeds "breaking speeds" around Frogman (scratched by 'Eight Way Thunderclap') get to the point Akumo was standing exactly 2 seconds ago. Frogman, noticing the clones of Akumo growing stronger and just all the mess he made in just 2 seconds, smiles menacingly (mid-spoilers past 4:15!), as he focuses on 3 words in his head:

TWO,
SECOND,
REWIND!
===>

Spoiler: For those wanting to hear how it actually works

OST here if you wanna have a more epic time while reading past this point, it fits I promise.
To understand how Two Second Rewind really works, one must see how Frogmen observe the world. In addition to their 5 senses, Frogmen in the present also sense standing on a giant, red laser lake. All in the present (like a standing building) combined with events happening (like a dog running around the building), seem to endlessly "dive" into the red lake, getting non-stop replaced by a new "present" (building still standing and dog moving slightly). Frogman can actually see "the old images of the present" diving into the lake, becoming less and less visible the deeper they get. And of course, like when a child manages to pull out a teddy bear fallen to the lake (just before teddybear dives deep enough), Frogman can pull factors from "the old images of the present", as far his hand can reach.

In order to be able to revert many factors out in a single moment of time, Frogmen most of the time use their Red Laser Hands controlled by their mind instead of their own physical ones, Red Laser Hands representing the total Red Laser Energy a Frogman possesses. Rather than milliseconds with a physical hand, Red Laser Hands of stage 3 can go '2 seconds deep'. And Red Laser Hands of stage 4 can go either '2 seconds deep', or '3 seconds deep', each stage able to multi-reach past objects even deeper. It's an impressive feat (given how long of a distance 2 or 3 seconds represents, with each second containing a quantum of "old images of the present"), being hard to replicate and even harder to sense. It takes dozens of rewinds made in front of new stage 3s, for new stage 3s to even register what is going on. From the outside, the best way to describe it is by calling it "magic".

-Akumo clones disappear, along with Akumo's ability to summon them, being replaced by their non-existence 2 seconds ago
-Both 'Mortum Spiral Bursts' of Akumo and his clones vanish from existence, being replaced by their non-existence 2 seconds ago
-Scratches on the main Frogman from 'Eight Way Thunderclap' get repaired as if nothing happened, Frogman's body is healed by copying the one unscratched 2 seconds ago
-Akumo's additional hands developing Red Sabers vanish, along with Akumo's ability to summon the handles, being replaced by their non-existence 2 seconds ago
-But most important of all, Akumo's position gets reverted to the place, he stood at exactly 2 seconds ago

At the speeds these two are operating, thousands of cuts go through Akumo before he even realizes what happened, or his Enhanced Instinctive Reaction manages to get away. Stage 4 put so much power into accelerating the rotations, that they happen way faster beyond Frogman's thoughts as well. It's the body of stage 4 this time combined with rotations not being 100% balanced in the first place, able to use the slashes at least somehow effectively enough to slash whole Akumo's giant body into the tiniest plates and cubes, not letting a single part alone. 'Decay Burning' takes action right away, able to burn these plates and cubes so thin along with their blood (each plate burns singularly from all sides) pretty much right away, giving Akumo minimal chances of adapting to it in time.

Furthermore, the preparation Stage 4 Frogman made takes action, the damage each strike deals should go way above 5-C (guaranteeing to bypass Akumo's Extremely High durability with ease merging with properties of Red Saber), the Dragon Heads further tearing so many parts of Akumo's soul, AP and likely other stats with each single strike to add another KO factors into the attack Frogman gambled most of his arsenal at. Also, the fact Dragon Heads are orbiting around the Saber shouldn't go unnoticed, greatly speeding up the process of Akumo's annihilation. Frogman will use the Blades rotating for many more seconds after Akumo's body perishes, just to be sure he doesn't rewind with some similar power. The odds of Akumo adapting to all of this are beyond minimal, the best Akumo's win coin would be putting all effort and clones at attacking the main Frogman during these 2 seconds he traveled, yet the amount of Frogman's defensive properties combined with the fact Frogman 100% recovers after using 2-second-rewind to proceed the final attack perfectly also lowers Akumo chances, leaving Frogman with better odds in most of scenarios.

Spoiler: What would Frogman say upon proceeding with the final attack?

Frogman spending 99% of his current stamina slowly draws out the Chainsaw Dragon Blades, using the last of his strength to alter an A.T. shield to bow on one knee, breathing heavily (as all area around is totally nuked, no land to stand on). As the immense strength of Akumo's EXP gathers in him, refreshing his stamina, Stage 4 Frogman says sentences to himself.

"Forcing me to use my final attack at first, you devil. Yet, when my Dragon Blades were slashing you into nothingness, I felt you weren't necessarily evil, just as the sin vision showed, you just took things in a bad direction. I will intercede to my boss about rewinding your older self from the present, buried deep in history. And then, with morals similar to us, we can reset this world together, free of all high sin-meters, as two brothers should."

Unless other game-changing strengths of Akumo are put on the table,

Stage 4 Frogman FRA

It's true that that would be the end of Akumo. However, this all leaves out one extremely important detail… Akumo has clairvoyance, a minor version of the Esper 'Third Eye' ability. He would see all of this before it happens, including the time rewind and what exactly takes place after. Clairvoyance allows him to see all potential actions his opponent can take. In other words, he's not dying here. The fact that he would be able to see this outcome right away completely changes what he does. Furthermore, even just seeing that this is his immediate future is going to trigger Rapid Evolution thanks to his willpower. Even just having someone with similar strentgh in front of him triggers it greatly, but seeing his own death? That's a completely new kind of way to force Rapid Evolution, giving him faster strength than ever before, easily surpassing everything that forced his evolutions beforehand. Although he can't mimic anything he sees via clairvoyance, just seeing it is enough to get into his emotions in such a way that his stats and abilities shoot up.

The 1.8-2.5 second timeframe is enough for Akumo to do pretty much whatever he wants, given that he upscales pretty good from this feat and is also getting faster passively and with every movement, no matter how small. Seeing his opponent with an unexpected powerful arsenal, Akumo will believe that this is the opponent he needs to defeat to achieve his goals of resetting the world, so he won't hold back.

Rapid Evolution and Mimicry gives Akumo the ability to summon equal clones as Frogman once he sees them appear. Realizing this, Akumo will use his power and create almost as many clones as Frogman made, and half of the Akumo clones will attack the defense from every side with an Eight Way Thunderclap.

• Akumo slams all of his hands together, which sends a vibration of obliteration which reduces enemies and objects to dust on contact. The sound wave it generates is also deadly. With Eight hands, this is much more effective.

The other half all stand between the clapping clones and begin to spam Mortum Bursts from six of their arms in the same direction to further hinder the defense. In addition to being packed with ever increasing energy, the blasts leave behind a burning status effect which will erode the defense even more. With their final two arms, they will start (twice every few seconds, one from each hand) producing Mortum Spiral Bursts.

Instead of this, Akumo's clones all evolve tenth arms with most of them charging the 10-Point Mortum Ultima Cannon, each one much stronger than individual Mortum Burst spams. The beams are huge (2-3 times the size of Akumo's already large body) and packed with power, with increasing stats able to get around damage reduction techniques. With the extra two arms, the damage is even further enhanced. The beam will cause much more corrosion effect and damage overall, making it so that the previous method of defense is practically useless, especially since just one laser blood barrier won't halt the beams. The few remaining that don't charge the cannon all use ten Way Thunderclaps.

Akumo himself will remain completely still and evolve his size to increase as well as up to 24 arms. With the top four arms, Akumo preforms the Sheer Perfection Master Twister on Frogman, using the telekinesis to hold him off via ever rising Class E Lifting strength (According to profiles, they are about equal, but at this point Akumo's is rising higher and higher at increasingly faster speed). In addition to halting his attack, he's also able to twist him apart. His next ten arms do a much more powerful and effective version of the Eight way thunderclap, making a Ten Way Thunderclap able to disintegrate Frogman's entire form into dust, the shock-wave having very high range and encompassing the whole area as well. His next eight arms use Sheer Perfection Tornado Torrent of Terror as good measure, and spreading it over all the distance Frogman is covering up, slicing everything there down to dust on its own (not to mention what the other attacks will do, combined this there won't be a single trace of Frogman left). The final two arms are doing something else behind Akumo's back. In addition, Akumo creates an Esper barrier around himself, which, when combined with Instinctive Action and Clarivoyance, allows for enough reaction time to escape if Frogman does somwething crazy again. But even with that, this should be more than enough of an attack to force Frogman’s core self-BFR, considering all of the above. I’ve read through his profile countless times in the past and I don’t see much ways out of this assault.

• Sheer Perfection Master Twister: A technique adopted from Puppet Master. When Akumo remembered his fight with the cadre, he adapted some of his skills into the Sheer Perfection Reset Fist, including the Master twister. Akumo uses his Esper powers to spin his foe into a tornado and rip them to ribbons. He can wield the telekinesis to freeze opponents regeneration after ripping them apart.
• Sheer Perfection Tornado Torrent of Terror: Akumos hands generate a Hurricane of slashing wind which condenses around the target. Because of his new elemental powers, real wind is also incorporated. The cuts feel like a combo of the nuclear slash and whirlwind iron cutting fist, slicing so thoroughly that he can even cut between the spaces of molecules and wipe his opponent out until there's not even a drop of blood remaining. He can even use it to slice down pure vapor as well.

Assuming that the previous outcome was Frogman's plan all along, this should be more than enough to change it completely as well even if it doesn’t force the first core BFR.

As well, during this he will use his memories of the future (AOT reference? ) as motivation for his Rapid Evolution increasing his stats massively to respond to everything Frogman had done to him, virtually assuring that he would be able to survive if it he did it now.

While the clones manage to block Mortum Bursts mostly easily (summoning new and new Laser Blood shields to absorb damage and corrosion of Bursts, then disappearing with it & getting replaced by new ones), the main Frogman tanks the 'Eight Way Thunderclap' (armor's damage reduction & body damage reduction [skin and bones] & Low-High regen), while smaller dragon heads on the blades suck in and consume all Mortum Bursts spheres of corrupted energy coming near main Frogman.

On top of that, I don't think Frogman tanks it so easily as this implies at all. Even the six-way thunderclap turns stuff to dust with massive shockwave, and the Eight Way is much more powerful. There are many Akumo clones all using it at once... It's not so simple as damage reduction. Even with Stage 4's 85% durability negation slowing. Maybe it would work well for one thunderclap, but that many is going to cause Frogman a major headache. Plus being reduced to dust and coming back requires Mid-High regen, which Stage 4 has no means to achieve.

The few Ten way Thundervclaps Akumo's clones are using should achieve a pretty good effect too, as they leave the Eight Way Thunderclap behind, and even further with always inscreasing stats.

And with excellent timing, the Blades rotating at speeds "breaking speeds" around Frogman (scratched by 'Eight Way Thunderclap') get to the point Akumo was standing exactly 2 seconds ago. Frogman, noticing the clones of Akumo growing stronger and just all the mess he made in just 2 seconds, smiles menacingly (mid-spoilers past 4:15!), as he focuses on 3 words in his head:

TWO,
SECOND,
REWIND!
===>

-Akumo clones disappear, along with Akumo's ability to summon them, being replaced by their non-existence 2 seconds ago
-Both 'Mortum Spiral Bursts' of Akumo and his clones vanish from existence, being replaced by their non-existence 2 seconds ago
-Scratches on the main Frogman from 'Eight Way Thunderclap' get repaired as if nothing happened, Frogman's body is healed by copying the one unscratched 2 seconds ago
-Akumo's additional hands developing Red Sabers vanish, along with Akumo's ability to summon the handles, being replaced by their non-existence 2 seconds ago
-But most important of all, Akumo's position gets reverted to the place, he stood at exactly 2 seconds ago

Akumo is able to see this, so he's aware that Frogman can just do this again. The fact of this makes Akumo's Rapid Evolution even stronger. And if Frogman does rewind all of this a second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, or higher amount of times, Akumo will see that too before it happens. Each time he sees it as a possibility is just further triggering Rapid Evolution and Akumo's willpower, and I know Frogman can't spam rewind for every time Akumo's evolution goes too far/every time he preforms large manuvers gigivng him advantages. The evolution is going to get so powerful that he'd get everything back instantly upon a rewind anyway, since his willpower to win the fight and achieve his goals is so unbelievably high now and being constantly triggered (even more so now that he's seen his death play out). Rewidning all of his memories of this doesn't work either, since Akumo's clairvoyance would also tell him about that, and Akumo's body reacts on its own the very same instance upon rewind, giving him a burst of Rapid Evolution regardless of Frogman's abilities and planning. No matter what Frogman does, he can't avoid Akumo's explosion of will.

Spoiler: Akumo's words after seeing the future

"You killed me...? Impossible... A power like yours can't be allowed to exist... I'm destined to destroy those too strong for anyone else to resist. No wonder you're my final trial, you're the very embodiment of what I stand against! Well, now I'll show you what I really mean by 'reset the world!'"

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

It's an impressive feat (given how long of a distance 2 or 3 seconds represents, with each second containing a quantum of "old images of the present"), being hard to replicate and even harder to sense. It takes dozens of rewinds made in front of new stage 3s, for new stage 3s to even register what is going on. From the outside, the best way to describe it is by calling it "magic".
[/SPOILER]

Plus, Akumo has better pure senses and fighting prowess than a stage 3 Frogman, in addition to a stage 3 having zero power mimicry or Rapid Evolution. Even for Akumo it would be difficult to preform because of the original factors, but if he sees it even just a couple times, he ought to have it down and be able to rewind stuff himself. He can’t use mimicry for stuff he sees in Clarbouance, but he can use it like a bounce-pad for copying stuff if it’s used against him after he views it being used in the future, effectively letting him copy things quicker even though they’re high difficulty. If he encounters something he can’t mimic right away, his body undergoes Forced Evolution that increases his mimicry capability until he’s able to mimic it (demonstrated by constant forced evolution while fighting Seiya and attempting to mimic her secret ability), meaning that he could mimic 2/3 second rewind far faster than a stage 3 could register it. This combined with the Rapid Evolution Phenomenon allows Akumo to further improve it too, surpassing 3 seconds by multiplying its capability like with his other moves.

If it truly is completely impossible to mimic (which rewind doesn’t seek to be, just very difficult) then Akumo’s body will undergo constant and uninterrupted forced evolution as it attempts to reach the impossible height, effectively making him hundreds of times stronger, more durable, and faster, with the rate of this expansion also always accelerating. Either way, it’s to Akumo’s favor.

EDIT: Since it’s extremely hard to sense, it would take longer, I’m just saying that seeing Frogman actively rewind via clairvoyance means that needing to sense it first doesn’t matter much since he’s already aware of it, knows what it looks like, and can see what it does. This makes it so he doesn’t necessarily need to perceive it occuring in real time in order to use mimicry. Plus just feeling things occur in general is usually enough for power mimicry to work even in previous stages, and Evolution of Will is obviously is higher when it comes to that and the fact of Akumo viewing his own death further increases the rate significantly.

Akumo is also shown to be copying impossible things (Esper powers and Ako’s robotics), even when not being born an Esper usually restricts the abilities in every form, plus him not having even a single fraction of a percent of cybernetic parts in him. Rapid Evolution can and will be applied to similarly ‘impossible’ stuff. He can basically mimic everything Frogman does after a bit of time, with Rapid Evolution also allowing him to survive most of his arsenal as well as then use it for himself.

 

[MintyBoi1]

You guys are really speaking

 

[Froggytron]

It's true that that would be the end of Akumo. However, this all leaves out one extremely important detail… Akumo has clairvoyance, a minor version of the Esper 'Third Eye' ability.

• Clairvoyance (After adapting the power of Espers into himself, he gained the ability to see somewhat into the future to see his opponent's actions, but also into other realms, where he saw their suffering and began to evolve even further in response to it changing his views on 'absolute power')

The first point is that Akumo doesn’t appear to non-stop look into the limited future he can see. While Frogman enabled precognition (being triggered by the sight of energy vision), Akumo didn't in the first reply. Of course that doesn’t block him from doing so, but already gives a great % situation where Akumo simply doesn’t look in these 2 seconds (being more focused on the sight of Dragon Blades Frogman is spinning with, attempting to mimicry them at all cost to get their menacing power he sees for the first time). In this highly probable outcome, Akumo gets annihilated confirmed by you.

The second situation would be Akumo looking into the future / potentially registering his death (more about that later) late, for example just half a second before 2 second rewind is executed. This doesn’t give Akumo enough time to change much (combined with other stuff I have to say), also getting annihilated with a little bigger difficulty.

Lastly, Akumo looks into the future soon or at the fight start. Even then, there are numerous factors making ‘clearly registering what will happen’ extremely difficult, even to such an evolver he is.

Even just having someone with similar strentgh in front of him triggers it greatly, but seeing his own death? That's a completely new kind of way to force Rapid Evolution, giving him faster strength than ever before

1. EXP: Akumo can see into the future “somewhat”, he is further distracted by other realms. Without a 100% clear vision, Akumo shouldn’t necessarily sense he would die, as he gets converted into EXP. EXP still lives, then gets converted into tiny Red Laser crystals. While not necessarily possessing extreme durability, they possess extreme resistances, namely against being manipulated in the sense of time. Seeing them from the past also counts, Akumo just wouldn’t know what happens with EXP (which still lives), because the crystals block giving the information (more described in Red Laser origin).

2. Short time window: Time rewind combined with dragon heads distorting space and time being executed in the smallest fraction of time before Akumo becomes EXP. With the time interval being so tiny that both Akumo and Stage 4 cannot simply manage thoughts in it, a “somehow seeing into the future” could not be enough the register the short interval, further having just 2 seconds on it. This has high odds of removing Akumo of the will to evolve mentioned, the Rapid Evolution. Orbiting Dragon Heads (which speed up the process radically) also would throw wood into the fire, Akumo's brain simply could be unable to decode how he was converted into EXP within 2 seconds or less, from a "blurry sense of future".

3. Red Laser origin: The original Red Laser Crystals were growing in an unknown part of the multiverse, most of them getting mined for power to give a chance at combating the FU lore main antagonists (if you know, you know). New R.L.Crystals would grow in billions of years, and a group of FU god tiers couldn't find any way to speed up their growing process in millions of years, being forced to alter the new method of living EXP being converted into tiny R.L.Crystal fragments (because if they could be farmed easily, most of the struggle of the story would be almost gone). All of this info was developed around October ‎2023.

That being said, at least the key Red Laser spells being shaped for all the time from these mysterious crystals (such as 2-second-rewind, TP Deferoid, or Dragon Sabers) would still keep their effects, at least for the most part. One of them being resistance to time influences from the past or future so great, that it would prevent being seen from the past or future as well. A camera record being altered or deleted (in time a crime happened, to not show the truth happening) could be the closest metaphor for what Akumo would see, not getting nearly as much Rapid Evolution mentioned.

I believe these factors have more than enough potential to keep the majority of outcomes of the Akumo vs Stage 4 Frogman fight remaining the same as the first Frogman's win coin (where Akumo simply doesn't look into the future at all, being distracted by wanting to replicate all Frogman is doing), greatly reducing the Evolution Ka-boom Akumo gets along with not fearing death, to the point of the fight being mostly unchanged. As for the point with the original Eight Way Thunderclap having the potential to beat the main Frogman's body, TP Deferoid (registering this as a crucial hit) I would activate, teleporting all damage safely away.

I also see several things Frogman with clones could do even against the spam of the Sheer Perfection series and other powerful moves, but first I wanna see if Akumo has even a chance of overcoming the three factors making ‘clearly registering what will happen’ beyond difficult, in just under the 2 seconds, while dealing with Stage 4 giving his 120% Even if he has some means, there is no denying he could get stuck at any of them, granting Frogman even more win-coins before Akumo gains his own.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

• Clairvoyance (After adapting the power of Espers into himself, he gained the ability to see somewhat into the future to see his opponent's actions, but also into other realms, where he saw their suffering and began to evolve even further in response to it changing his views on 'absolute power')

The first point is that Akumo doesn’t appear to non-stop look into the limited future he can see. While Frogman enabled precognition (being triggered by the sight of energy vision), Akumo didn't in the first reply. Of course that doesn’t block him from doing so, but already gives a great % situation where Akumo simply doesn’t look in these 2 seconds (being more focused on the sight of Dragon Blades Frogman is spinning with, attempting to mimicry them at all cost to get their menacing power he sees for the first time). In this highly probable outcome, Akumo gets annihilated confirmed by you.

Akumo's page is in need of an update, and the clarification on how exactly his clairvoyance actually works is part of that, and if it were properly written this would be a moot point right away. Obviously it's my fault (making his page in an extremely lazy way and failing to update in time before this, and pages can't be updated mid-fight. This tourney has been fast, giving me no time at all to even get to the middle of the update), so I'll just say how it really works here. Akumo's clairvoyance works sort of like a passive precog, kind of like a mental extension of his body's physical instinctive action. The interesting thing about is that it randomly allows him a look across space onto another world which has been conquered by villains he needs to 'reset' later. I sort of alluded to this explantion before since I said it was like the Esper 'Third Eye' ability. But besides seeing into other worlds, everything else is automatic, which means that Akumo actually does see everything as I implied in my previous reply. It's not a perfect precog, but seeing into the future just 2 seconds is easy, passive, and instant, so this doesn't really matter.

The second situation would be Akumo looking into the future / potentially registering his death (more about that later) late, for example just half a second before 2 second rewind is executed. This doesn’t give Akumo enough time to change much (combined with other stuff I have to say), also getting annihilated with a little bigger difficulty.

The clairvoyance explanation from above should also apply to this, plus Akumo's reaction ability explained further down.

Lastly, Akumo looks into the future soon or at the fight start. Even then, there are numerous factors making ‘clearly registering what will happen’ extremely difficult, even to such an evolver he is.


1. EXP: Akumo can see into the future “somewhat”, he is further distracted by other realms. Without a 100% clear vision, Akumo shouldn’t necessarily sense he would die, as he gets converted into EXP. EXP still lives, then gets converted into tiny Red Laser crystals. While not necessarily possessing extreme durability, they possess extreme resistances, namely against being manipulated in the sense of time. Seeing them from the past also counts, Akumo just wouldn’t know what happens with EXP (which still lives), because the crystals block giving the information (more described in Red Laser origin).

Akumo doesn't need to see the EXP at all, he can clearly see what happened to him regardless (and if for some reason he can’t, he can easily guess). It's obvious that the attack killed him, so he doesn't need to see anything beyond that 2nd second where he is hit by the attack. Clairvoyance allows him to see the possible outcomes of every given move or plan Frogman can imagine beforehand, and he will promptly act on whichever he chooses (as seen before, where Clairvoyance completely alters the start of the battle)

Also, if the EXP is alive as Akumo, it might be possible that he would still have Rapid Evolution (it comes from a higher Demon, after al, this being what makes his Angel of Death form possible) and just evolve as red laser crystals into an entirely new form.

2. Short time window: Time rewind combined with dragon heads distorting space and time being executed in the smallest fraction of time before Akumo becomes EXP. With the time interval being so tiny that both Akumo and Stage 4 cannot simply manage thoughts in it, a “somehow seeing into the future” could not be enough the register the short interval, further having just 2 seconds on it. This has high odds of removing Akumo of the will to evolve mentioned, the Rapid Evolution. Orbiting Dragon Heads (which speed up the process radically) also would throw wood into the fire, Akumo's brain simply could be unable to decode how he was converted into EXP within 2 seconds or less, from a "blurry sense of future".

Akumo is able to act both physically and mentally (including clairvoyance) in about 0.001 milliseconds at the bare minimum without even needing to really try that hard, and his brain is always advancing (Akumo's pure reactions greatly surpass his actual movement and fighting speed, and not just due to instinctive action). Considering the entire action takes 2 entire full seconds, this isn't just an easy thing for Akumo to decode, it's nigh-effortless. Even if it was difficult, Akumo's evolution is also determined by willpower, which is passive (Even more so than his regular evolution). This move is obviously unfair to Akumo, and seeing into the future triggers rapid evolution via the willpower to avoid that outcome. In fact, rapid evolution should be triggered instantly in the fight just based on Frogman's first move being so intricate alone, further raising his ability to not only survive, but thrive in the battle, as his evolution is so fast. Plus his evolution speed is another thing that's also always improving, going up and up and up possibly forever.

3. Red Laser origin: The original Red Laser Crystals were growing in an unknown part of the multiverse, most of them getting mined for power to give a chance at combating the FU lore main antagonists (if you know, you know). New R.L.Crystals would grow in billions of years, and a group of FU god tiers couldn't find any way to speed up their growing process in millions of years, being forced to alter the new method of living EXP being converted into tiny R.L.Crystal fragments (because if they could be farmed easily, most of the struggle of the story would be almost gone). All of this info was developed around October ‎2023.

That being said, at least the key Red Laser spells being shaped for all the time from these mysterious crystals (such as 2-second-rewind, TP Deferoid, or Dragon Sabers) would still keep their effects, at least for the most part. One of them being resistance to time influences from the past or future so great, that it would prevent being seen from the past or future as well.

Akumo has no influence over time, so I'm not sure why this matters at all. All he is doing is peaking, plus, Akumo is able to view the future actions from Seiya who is FAR more resistant to 'time influences' (I can go into a whole thing about her if I need to), so this is largely another moot point. He’s also able to see the future actions of Neptune in other planets (if you know you know), and they have their own long list of resistances which are similar when it comes to being time based.

A camera record being altered or deleted (in time a crime happened, to not show the truth happening) could be the closest metaphor for what Akumo would see, not getting nearly as much Rapid Evolution mentioned.

Even though this really isn't true thanks to how his clairvoyance really works + it's relation with Seiya (resisting time stuff to the extreme) allowing him to see it anyway, I'll talk about what would happen if it was true. Akumo's power would respond to being incapable of viewing it by instant rapid evolution, giving him hundreds to thousands of times greater clairvoyance(very likely within the alloted 2 seconds as well since it's also based upon Akumo's body, which reacts extremely fast as stated above) to the point that he would be able to see it anyway. considering how fast he can act on things as well as his evolution being naturally passive and 'rapid', he shouldn't have much trouble catching up unless it's an endlessly layered thing similar to the Magistream, which I know that it isn't.

I believe these factors have more than enough potential to keep the majority of outcomes of the Akumo vs Stage 4 Frogman fight remaining the same as the first Frogman's win coin (where Akumo simply doesn't look into the future at all, being distracted by wanting to replicate all Frogman is doing), greatly reducing the Evolution Ka-boom Akumo gets along with not fearing death, to the point of the fight being mostly unchanged.

1. Clairvoyance explanation from above.
2. Akumo's evolution is all passive, and he wouldn't be distrascted by mimicry at all. Honestly, he could fight nearly as well even if his brain was completely turned off thanks to how good his instinctive action is.
3. If Akumo needs to evolve, he will, since his willpower will kick in even if he isn't sure what's going on. Plus, Clairvoyance explanation means that Akumo sees his death anyway. Even if not, he can guess what happened to him.

As for the point with the original Eight Way Thunderclap having the potential to beat the main Frogman's body, TP Deferoid (registering this as a crucial hit) I would activate, teleporting all damage safely away.

After 3 seconds, this goes into an 8 second cooldown. Akumo can easily survive that long thanks to all of the above and then hit with Thunderclaps (with higher arm counts) from all directions later. In addition, Akumo is gonna copy it after Frogman defends with it, and then improve the amount of time it works for. Plus, thois doesn't account for if the Akumo clones just clap their hands repeatedly and spam with Thunderclaps, overwhelming Frogman and definitely lasting over 3 seconds.

I also see several things Frogman with clones could do even against the spam of the Sheer Perfection series and other powerful moves, but first I wanna see if Akumo has even a chance of overcoming the three factors making ‘clearly registering what will happen’ beyond difficult, in just under the 2 seconds, while dealing with Stage 4 giving his 120% Even if he has some means, there is no denying he could get stuck at any of them, granting Frogman even more win-coins before Akumo gains his own.

Akumo will copy any amount of clones Frogman uses, in addition to his own aresenal constantly improving. All of Akumo's clones would also be able to evovle extra indivudal aspects about themslves during a battle, and on top of that, Akumo's ability to create clones would also be constantly improving, allowing him to make more and more to the poinht where he eventually has double, triple, or even higher counts of clones than Frogman does, all of the clones using mimicry and clairvoyance + more rapid evolution. Every clone of Akumo copying their enemies deadly arsenal will make for a nearly insurmountable challenge. Frogman will also experience clone cooldowns eventually, giving Akumo an even further advantage, plus his ability to make new moves on the fly which is even further raised by copying more and more powers.

It's true that that would be the end of Akumo. However, this all leaves out one extremely important detail… Akumo has clairvoyance, a minor version of the Esper 'Third Eye' ability. He would see all of this before it happens, including the time rewind and what exactly takes place after. Clairvoyance allows him to see all potential actions his opponent can take. In other words, he's not dying here. The fact that he would be able to see this outcome right away completely changes what he does. Furthermore, even just seeing that this is his immediate future is going to trigger Rapid Evolution thanks to his willpower. Even just having someone with similar strentgh in front of him triggers it greatly, but seeing his own death? That's a completely new kind of way to force Rapid Evolution, giving him faster strength than ever before, easily surpassing everything that forced his evolutions beforehand. Although he can't mimic anything he sees via clairvoyance, just seeing it is enough to get into his emotions in such a way that his stats and abilities shoot up.


Instead of this, Akumo's clones all evolve tenth arms with most of them charging the 10-Point Mortum Ultima Cannon, each one much stronger than individual Mortum Burst spams. The beams are huge (2-3 times the size of Akumo's already large body) and packed with power, with increasing stats able to get around damage reduction techniques. With the extra two arms, the damage is even further enhanced. The beam will cause much more corrosion effect and damage overall, making it so that the previous method of defense is practically useless, especially since just one laser blood barrier won't halt the beams. The few remaining that don't charge the cannon all use ten Way Thunderclaps.

Akumo himself will remain completely still and evolve his size to increase as well as up to 24 arms. With the top four arms, Akumo preforms the Sheer Perfection Master Twister on Frogman, using the telekinesis to hold him off via ever rising Class E Lifting strength (According to profiles, they are about equal, but at this point Akumo's is rising higher and higher at increasingly faster speed). In addition to halting his attack, he's also able to twist him apart. His next ten arms do a much more powerful and effective version of the Eight way thunderclap, making a Ten Way Thunderclap able to disintegrate Frogman's entire form into dust, the shock-wave having very high range and encompassing the whole area as well. His next eight arms use Sheer Perfection Tornado Torrent of Terror as good measure, and spreading it over all the distance Frogman is covering up, slicing everything there down to dust on its own (not to mention what the other attacks will do, combined this there won't be a single trace of Frogman left). The final two arms are doing something else behind Akumo's back. In addition, Akumo creates an Esper barrier around himself, which, when combined with Instinctive Action and Clarivoyance, allows for enough reaction time to escape if Frogman does somwething crazy again. But even with that, this should be more than enough of an attack to force Frogman’s core self-BFR, considering all of the above. I’ve read through his profile countless times in the past and I don’t see much ways out of this assault.

• Sheer Perfection Master Twister: A technique adopted from Puppet Master. When Akumo remembered his fight with the cadre, he adapted some of his skills into the Sheer Perfection Reset Fist, including the Master twister. Akumo uses his Esper powers to spin his foe into a tornado and rip them to ribbons. He can wield the telekinesis to freeze opponents regeneration after ripping them apart.
• Sheer Perfection Tornado Torrent of Terror: Akumos hands generate a Hurricane of slashing wind which condenses around the target. Because of his new elemental powers, real wind is also incorporated. The cuts feel like a combo of the nuclear slash and whirlwind iron cutting fist, slicing so thoroughly that he can even cut between the spaces of molecules and wipe his opponent out until there's not even a drop of blood remaining. He can even use it to slice down pure vapor as well.

Assuming that the previous outcome was Frogman's plan all along, this should be more than enough to change it completely as well even if it doesn’t force the first core BFR.

As well, during this he will use his memories of the future (AOT reference? ) as motivation for his Rapid Evolution increasing his stats massively to respond to everything Frogman had done to him, virtually assuring that he would be able to survive if it he did it now.

On top of that, I don't think Frogman tanks it so easily as this implies at all. Even the six-way thunderclap turns stuff to dust with massive shockwave, and the Eight Way is much more powerful. There are many Akumo clones all using it at once... It's not so simple as damage reduction. Even with Stage 4's 85% durability negation slowing. Maybe it would work well for one thunderclap, but that many is going to cause Frogman a major headache. Plus being reduced to dust and coming back requires Mid-High regen, which Stage 4 has no means to achieve.

The few Ten way Thundervclaps Akumo's clones are using should achieve a pretty good effect too, as they leave the Eight Way Thunderclap behind, and even further with always increasing stats.

Akumo is able to see this, so he's aware that Frogman can just do this again. The fact of this makes Akumo's Rapid Evolution even stronger. And if Frogman does rewind all of this a second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, or higher amount of times, Akumo will see that too before it happens. Each time he sees it as a possibility is just further triggering Rapid Evolution and Akumo's willpower, and I know Frogman can't spam rewind for every time Akumo's evolution goes too far/every time he preforms large manuvers gigivng him advantages. The evolution is going to get so powerful that he'd get everything back instantly upon a rewind anyway, since his willpower to win the fight and achieve his goals is so unbelievably high now and being constantly triggered (even more so now that he's seen his death play out). Rewidning all of his memories of this doesn't work either, since Akumo's clairvoyance would also tell him about that, and Akumo's body reacts on its own the very same instance upon rewind, giving him a burst of Rapid Evolution regardless of Frogman's abilities and planning. No matter what Frogman does, he can't avoid Akumo's explosion of will.

Now that I've cleared up Akumo's clairvoyance, all of this should still be in effect. TP deferoid might help vs Tenway thunderclap, but his clones are gonna struggle massively vs his cannon attacks. In addition, Akumo’s clone making abilities are already improving and Frogman should be forced to self BFR right away thanks to Akumo’s onslaught.

You also stated that this attack already takes all of Frogman's stamina, potentially making his self-BFR and subsequent return harder.

 

[Froggytron]

Akumo's clairvoyance works sort of like a passive precog, kind of like a mental extension of his body's physical instinctive action.

This power is still highly unfair (really higher Frogman stages have this advanced to clash with main antagonists in 2-tier, but look how Marx was able to bypass stage 3’s precognition by dragging him into the intensity of the fight. Precognition without any limitation at the start of the 5 tier, further brought like this so late doesn’t seem fair at all, the ‘new’ explanation you are giving doesn’t give stage 4 himself any weakness at all to bypass this. For anyone choosing to fight Akumo or not, Clairvoyance having the current or old description could be the main key difference why to not battle this monstrosity (the word ‘monstrosity’ representing the amount of hax this passive thing adds to already giga-haxed Akumo, no hard feelings).

I am still of the opinion that Akumo could be distracted enough by Dragon Blade rotations (which distort the very space around them in these rotation speeds) to not register this passive vision at all, stage 4 Frogman still having the first win coin without Akumo making a change.

(and if for some reason he can’t, he can easily guess). It's obvious that the attack killed him, so he doesn't need to see anything beyond that 2nd second where he is hit by the attack.

But there is a key difference! ‘Guess’ and ‘know’ are words of different meanings in terms of survival instinct. Let's compare:

“You WILL certainly die 2 seconds from now, all the hardships you overcome will render useless and the world wont reset”

“I see myself until some weird red glitching squares block the view, but I still see myself somehow”. (Red Laser can further camouflage things rather than just blocking them, hiding key abilities like 2-sec-rewinds, so there is a minimal way to prepare at them) “I..Is it possible I died there? But why do I also see such bizarre things, why do I then see Frogman losing so soon? Just what did the Frogman actually do there, there is no way to tell”

Clearly, the guessing (being further questioned by camouflages) triggers survival instinct about 20x lesser and lower, at least when I compare that. Akumo indeed gets stronger, but far less.

1: EXP is alive as EXP, not as Akumo. If the EXP system gave villains themselves any chances to recover after dying, it would be a horrible attribute for purging evil, wouldn’t it

this isn't just an easy thing for Akumo to decode, it's nigh-effortless.

2: I kinda expected the tiny amount of time wouldn’t be too great of a problem for Akumo, but this is way worse than I thought xD

All he is doing is peaking, plus, Akumo is able to view the future actions from Seiya who is FAR more resistant to 'time influences'

3: Certain “Angelic beings” don’t look into the future to change it, they change the future by looking, with eyes closed. Why do they get surprised by the Red Laser army of Frogmen then?

After 3 seconds, this goes into an 8 second cooldown. Akumo can easily survive that long thanks to all of the above and then hit with Thunderclaps

No, FU cooldowns start the moment a thing is activated, Frogman won't use TP Deferoid for 5 seconds after the 3 seconds active. And also no, Akumo won't survive over 2 seconds in the majority of scenarios.

All of Akumo's clones would also be able to evovle extra indivudal aspects about themslves during a battle, and on top of that, Akumo's ability to create clones would also be constantly improving, allowing him to make more and more to the poinht where he eventually has double, triple, or even higher counts of clones than Frogman does

Also, this precisely is why Akumo won't survive over 2 seconds in the majority of scenarios. This is the “hell Akumo's Rapid Evolution Phenomenon could do” Frogman saw with precognition at this very fight beginning (third row of my first message). It's obvious this nightmare cycle will get Frogman eventually (aka the Akumo’s wincoin). And, this is why Stage 4 is using his final attack at the fight beginning, killing Akumo in the majority of scenarios

Now it's established Akumo cannot become 2 tier by peaki-, no, glancing at his handsome face in the future, instead of simply looking into a mirror (what a sus move), but he only gets normally stronger by guessing, let's break the (HOPEFULLY) final clash:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

You mentioned Akumo clones charge the '10-Point Mortum Ultima Cannon', Frogman clones could then just chill the 2 seconds. If the beams start firing, dozens of A.T. shields (each one = /2 damage), giant portals (sending it away), or Spagamtron summoning (which shields could attack reflect) could be used to deal with this, depending on which from these 3 will benefit Akumo clones the less (found by precognition).

Akumo gains great power from seeing strong Frogman with clones and emotions (guessing he could die as one option from the mess he will see)? The clones could generate calming emotions in him (such as calm nullifying rage) for Akumo to chill down (stage2+ power). stacked mind-reducing interference could also be used to lessen the emotions (if precognition doesn't show Akumo gaining 10000000x mind resistance and 2-tier power from that). Illusion manipulations could be also used in order for Akumo to see Frogmen/clones way weaker, it won't trigger the power in him then.

Still little buffed Akumo will send the Sheer Perfection Tornado Torrent of Terror + Sheer Perfection Master Twister at main Frogman. TP Deferoid will activate, teleporting all damage these skills would do on Frogman, safely away. TP Deferoid lasts 3 seconds, more than enough time to get to the point where Akumo stands/or leaves and just happens the first wincoin. Then only the spinning remains from ‘Sheer Perfection Master Twister’, upon realizing Frogman is spinning already, that would just help Frogman (as he can rotate the spinning direction Akumo intended into the one Frogman wants, using the wind manip ) Esper barrier around himself would simply burn away like paper under decay burning of rotating Dragon Blades. And Frogman can easily overpower Akumo's buffed telekinesis too, either by strength from his future self or with the help of clones.

• TP Deferoid - Activated instantly with a 3-second duration upon main Frogman getting a crucial hit (8 seconds cooldown starting upon activation). Alters armor of tiny portals even filling Frogman's body with, teleporting all forms of attacks incoming (even their DMG energy) into the around area, twisting them in opposite direction. All 'unwanted' in the body (such as poisons, negative effects, damage) is teleported out as well. The clones experience 50% version of this.

And Akumo once more ends up as in the second message, annihilated by the spinning Dragon Blades

You also stated that this attack already takes all of Frogman's stamina, potentially making his self-BFR and subsequent return harder.

Frogman won't turn into the Core from being exhausted. This reminds me Frogman could also get most of the stamina back by the rewind.

It's really a nice contrast. While Akumo gets his impressive will (lessened by all Im trying to say) to LAST over the first 2 seconds, Frogman gets immerse will (having the Empowerment, power of rage...) to survive in order to SLICE Akumo within the first two seconds. And given that Akumo can only roughly guess his death while Frogman is pressured to just slay Akumo with all he got, Akumo dying after 2 seconds is highly more probable. Simply put, Stage 4 Frogman's arsenal seems to be a natural counter for Akumo, in the first 2 seconds. That’s why Im remaining voting Frogman.

 

[Froggytron]

+ It is worth noting Frogman/Clones would choose techniques (if having more working options, like in the telekinesis clash or the clone defensive) by the fact which of them would benefit Akumo/Akumo clones the least, using precognition to check that. The reason for this is Frogman's party pressured to work at 200%. Remembering this before arguing with "seeing this specifically makes Akumo ten times stronger" could spare some arguing

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I’m very busy these next couple days, I’ll have to respond on weekend. Just wanting to let everyone know that the fight isn’t over yet, Akumo still has arguments left, it’ll just be delayed a bit.

 

[Froggytron]

I know it's like putting feet into a snake nest, but bump

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I know it's like putting feet into a snake nest, but bump

Akumo reply will be out tonight

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

This power is still highly unfair (really higher Frogman stages have this advanced to clash with main antagonists in 2-tier, but look how Marx was able to bypass stage 3’s precognition by dragging him into the intensity of the fight. Precognition without any limitation at the start of the 5 tier, further brought like this so late doesn’t seem fair at all, the ‘new’ explanation you are giving doesn’t give stage 4 himself any weakness at all to bypass this. For anyone choosing to fight Akumo or not, Clairvoyance having the current or old description could be the main key difference why to not battle this monstrosity (the word ‘monstrosity’ representing the amount of hax this passive thing adds to already giga-haxed Akumo, no hard feelings).

I mean, I can argue that lots of the power Frogman has is very unfair too, and would be a whole lot more unfair towards Akumo (in fact likely a stomp on Frogman;s side) if not for Rapid Evolution. Both of these characters kinda have that aspect going for them.

The clairvoyance worked like this in both of Akumo's previous matches (most prominently against JavenPlayz, where he also used it to assist with mimicry), so it's not late at all, I just haven't had to explain it until now. Further, the old description was never actually correct, I pointed out that I was just being extremely lazy with the page. The 'new' description is how it's always actually been, just more poor wording in Akumo's profile making it seem different. It comes from Akumo's Esper powers evolving into unseen territory, gigvng him the Third Eye, which is used in OPM by Psykos and a few others to look into the future (can be used to see up to 6 months in the future based on Shibibawa seeing 'The Prophecy', which is theorized to be the coming of God to Earth, so a regular human viewing the future of this extremely powerful being easily using the same ability Evolution of Will Akumo is). Plus, the part of the Veneficaverse story where Akumo uses Clairvoyance (and all other Evolution of Will abilities) was made in June of 2022, long before the red laser lore. There's plenty of receipts too. For instance...

Spoiler: Excerpt from Akumo vs Seiya, V. Verse Chapter 241, 'Power of Will'"

...Seiya attempted another punch, but once again, Akumo found himself moving before he even thought to do so. When she missed, Seiya almost stumbled on herself, narrowly avoiding falling flat on her face. She maintained balance and glanced towards Akumo, who had taken his stance again.

"You're real annoying, you know that?" She said with a deadpan expression.

"That was strange..." Akumo thought to himself. "I couldn't even see her movement in real time, but my body dodged for me before she made the motion to attack. But even then, something flashed in my head... It was like a memory, but I’d never seen her do it before. Could it be that I foresaw her punches from the future?"

Before he could fully comprehend it, Seiya launched another attack, this time with two punches. In Akumo's mind, he could visualize her movements before she even made them. He foresaw himself evading multiple times, with every possible outcome flashing through his mind. And once again, his body moved on its own accord.

"That's it! I'm seeing the future!" He exclaimed internally. "And my body reacts automatically to what goes on in my head, as well as what happens in the ‘real world’... I don't even need to think to fight anymore! This must be that 'Third Eye' the puppet was talking about...”

“'Consecutive Punches!" Seiya yelled, unleashing a barrage of thousands of punches instantly.

"Fool, I've already seen your technique!" He yelled. "I saw it before it even happened!"

Despite the blitzing speed of Seiya's punches, Akumo effortlessly dodged every single one, before his body countered without his input with a series of perfectly placed kicks, knocking her through the dirt and kicking up hundreds of rocks. One of his arms then twisted with twitched fingers, slicing all of the falling rocks into pure dust.

As the dust settled, he pointed towards her and declared, "My psychic power is growing as we speak! I’ve seen everything you can do to me already! I remember it from the future, because of my 'Third Eye!' As if I'd let you blow me apart with that technique again, anyway."

Seiya emerged and wiped the dust from her costume casually, once again without damage. But Akumo's mind was already evovling yet again. Instead of just her next punch, he saw the one after that as well, and then her next. It was slow, but Akumo realized it to be true, that he could now see into the future. Another thought entered his mind, just as earlier when he faced the S Class.

'Just how far can I go?'

Seiya stretched, and grimaced when looking down at the flith on her costume.

"Man, I've never had my costume get this dirty before... This just isn't my day!" She shrugged, before looking back at Akumo.


"Thanks to you, I can now see the future of your attacks well before they happen!" He shouted with delight. “Which means, no matter how much you raise your already ridiculous speed, you’ll NEVER land a hit on me! I've seen them all already, your moves, your plans, everything!”

“What are you on about?” She furrowed her brow and grumbled. “Just give it up already!”

Seiya was met with a piercing stare from his crimson eyes. In an instant, a series of images and projections depicting many of her next moves flashed through his mind, and he was able to assess each one in that very same instant. Among the various possibilities of his own actions, he observed some that would lead to disastrous failure, while others promised great success. As he examined these options, his body instinctively resumed its motion, and he felt more and more power continue to boil from within, raising his abilities beyond his previous self once again.

“Yes, this is my evolution,” he declared, loosening his clenched fists and readying himself for the next assault. “My absolute power!!”

This shows Akumo's clairvoyance, evolution, and instincts in action. Considering that the Akumo fighting Frogman is the one with eight arms, while the excerpt features 6-arm evolution of will Akumo (who had basically just evolved too, the weakest possible evolution of will Akumo could be), the power of instinct and clairvoyance are both far more advanced than they are in this writing and evolve much faster too. Even the lowest setting of Akumo's Third Eye can somewhat view Seiya's actions.

I am still of the opinion that Akumo could be distracted enough by Dragon Blade rotations (which distort the very space around them in these rotation speeds) to not register this passive vision at all, stage 4 Frogman still having the first win coin without Akumo making a change.

Even if he is distracted his instinctive action will force Akumo to preform the most optimal moves anyway, since he doesn't need to think for it at all. His body essentially fights as a totally separate brain which is impossible to distract. This basically makes it impossible to catch Akumo himself off guard.

But there is a key difference! ‘Guess’ and ‘know’ are words of different meanings in terms of survival instinct. Let's compare:

“You WILL certainly die 2 seconds from now, all the hardships you overcome will render useless and the world wont reset”

“I see myself until some weird red glitching squares block the view, but I still see myself somehow”. (Red Laser can further camouflage things rather than just blocking them, hiding key abilities like 2-sec-rewinds, so there is a minimal way to prepare at them) “I..Is it possible I died there? But why do I also see such bizarre things, why do I then see Frogman losing so soon? Just what did the Frogman actually do there, there is no way to tell”

Clearly, the guessing (being further questioned by camouflages) triggers survival instinct about 20x lesser and lower, at least when I compare that. Akumo indeed gets stronger, but far less.

"Far less strong" when it comes to Rapid Evolution is still a huge boost at all stats for Akumo. It may not be the astronomical multiplier he'd get by seeing himself die, but he should at least gain a 5-10 times stat explosion for himself pretty much the instant Frogman moves considering what he sees with clairvoyance and the general power emitting from Frogman, plus guessing or assuming that he might die should be enough on its own anyway, even the slightest possible threats to his huge abilities and chances of accomplishing his goal meaning that there's a chance for his Reset to fail. 20 times slower in this instance also still equates to 0.02 milliseconds, which is 100,000 times less time than the 2 full seconds, which means there's hardly a difference either way, and like I said before, Akumo doesn't need to perceive things directly to react or evolve (this would only be necessary for Forced Rapid Evolution). Akumo has all the time in the world to decipher what would happen, so nothing really changes regardless of if Akumo 'knows' or 'guesses'. This doesn't account for the instant increases Akumo gains either, or the buffs from guessing/knowing. All in all, every fasctor at once results in an instant explosion at all stats. This is further explained down below.

1: EXP is alive as EXP, not as Akumo. If the EXP system gave villains themselves any chances to recover after dying, it would be a horrible attribute for purging evil, wouldn’t it

It was a shot in the dark for sure

3: Certain “Angelic beings” don’t look into the future to change it, they change the future by looking, with eyes closed. Why do they get surprised by the Red Laser army of Frogmen then?

Seems that Akumo's clairvoyance is already really really good then, seeing as Akumo can glance at the future of those 'Neptune god tiers' who should be comparable when it comes to resistance and pure ability based upon everything I know. Plus being able to use this against Seiya of all people successfully without much trouble even when he first gained that ability which has greatly evolved, is more than enough proof that Akumo's ability surpasses resistance in this case considering how much of a monster she is. The argument that Stage 4 Frogman would have any resistance higher than Seiya is simply impossible to make, plus, Frogman doesn't have a resistance or explanation about a possible resistance to precog/clairvoyance or any other similar resistance to a similar ability on the profile anyway, and unlike with Akumo's clairvoyance (despite the pretty poorly worded explanation which will be updated upon match ending), it isn't implied anywhere on the profile, and I've been through Frogman's whole profile a thousand times even prior to this match, plus me and you have talked lots privately and it hasn't ever come up. It's a pretty powerful claim to make, but if it had substance, it would've been there already, or I'd at least have known about it by now. In addition, Akumo being able to view beings such as Neptune God Tiers via clairvoyance doesn't somehow attribute to a tier 2 power, it just ,makes it to that Akumo sees Frogman's plans and abilities before he uses them. In fact, I doubt it would actually even be blurry, given what I've just described here, but it's still possible at first I guess.

Stage 4 Frogmen aren't the ones facing angelic beings anyway, that's reserved for Stage 8, 9, and 10 Frogmen who have vastly upgraded red laser systems and red saber blades. I'm sure those higher stages can avoid clairvoyance, but in this case, Stage 4 can't really get around that, especially with Frogman being incapable of accessing any of future stages powers outside of LS related stats and no resistance to it anyway, while Akumo can surpass those who do have pretty good resistance to precog. Using 'future Frogman lifting strength' in of itself is pretty questionable since I'd imagine it takes significant exp from them in order to do such a thing, but there doesn't seem to be a drawback on profile. The drawback with Akumo's clairvoyance is that it randomly allows him to observe other worlds future's, which in battle, would be an immense distraction and completely throw him off his game. However, there isn't a chance that it activates during the first few seconds.

No, FU cooldowns start the moment a thing is activated, Frogman won't use TP Deferoid for 5 seconds after the 3 seconds active.

I see, I read it wrong then

And also no, Akumo won't survive over 2 seconds in the majority of scenarios.

Also, this precisely is why Akumo won't survive over 2 seconds in the majority of scenarios. This is the “hell Akumo's Rapid Evolution Phenomenon could do” Frogman saw with precognition at this very fight beginning (third row of my first message). It's obvious this nightmare cycle will get Frogman eventually (aka the Akumo’s wincoin). And, this is why Stage 4 is using his final attack at the fight beginning, killing Akumo in the majority of scenarios

There's plenty of reason why he would survive though. Details are down below.

You mentioned Akumo clones charge the '10-Point Mortum Ultima Cannon', Frogman clones could then just chill the 2 seconds. If the beams start firing, dozens of A.T. shields (each one = /2 damage), giant portals (sending it away), or Spagamtron summoning (which shields could attack reflect) could be used to deal with this, depending on which from these 3 will benefit Akumo clones the less (found by precognition).

+ It is worth noting Frogman/Clones would choose techniques (if having more working options, like in the telekinesis clash or the clone defensive) by the fact which of them would benefit Akumo/Akumo clones the least, using precognition to check that. The reason for this is Frogman's party pressured to work at 200%. Remembering this before arguing with "seeing this specifically makes Akumo ten times stronger" could spare some arguing

They gain the ability to mimic and evolve all of the defensive abilities regardless, and if they can really defend against Akumo's cannons that easily, then it doesn't really matter if they 'benefit less' since Akumo is just gonna improve the already excellent defense powers by huge amounts by forcing his Rapid Evolution onto them, making them extremely beneficial no matter what. Akumo doesn't even need to 'see' them, sensing them plus viewing them visa Clairvoyance ought to be enough to mimic a weaker version which is then upgraded quick by rapid evolution. Spagmatron's are also basically useless due to their Digi-shield cooldowns and Akumo's clones having the ability to evolve a bunch more hands and spam the cannons/other moves. They could also just attempt Master twisters on the clones using their minds, since hand movement isn't truly required. This would make it weaker upon activation, but rapid evolution will fix that weakness quick and Akumo is also obviously far beyond Spagmatron. It would instantly stomp any and all Spagmatron's as soon as they appear, with the clones using clairvoyance to see their placements ahead of time. Akumo can use all the abilities used to defend these beams against the main Frogman right away too.

Akumo gains great power from seeing strong Frogman with clones and emotions (guessing he could die as one option from the mess he will see)? The clones could generate calming emotions in him (such as calm nullifying rage) for Akumo to chill down (stage2+ power). stacked mind-reducing interference could also be used to lessen the emotions (if precognition doesn't show Akumo gaining 10000000x mind resistance and 2-tier power from that). Illusion manipulations could be also used in order for Akumo to see Frogmen/clones way weaker, it won't trigger the power in him then.

'Rage' as a concept is already embedded into Akumo, and can't be nullified, due to his experiences with the previous form Evolution of Rage. Evolution of Will Akumo is actually very calm already, seeing as he has all these great abilities to reset the world with in addition to renewed confidence. Frogman's emotion manip would be extremely useful against Evolution of Rage, but the strength of that rage is just a natural part of Akumo now, embedded deep into his very DNA, and then even deeper than that at a fundamental kind of level. He attacks with the power/influence of rage no matter how happy or sad or other emotions he's feeling because of how interweaved it is with him. His evolution speed and increasing capabilities won't be slowed in any way by emotional manipulation.

Mind reduction will also cause an exponential increase in Akumo's mind all around, giving him resistance in addition to vastly multiplied intelligence likely also resulting in an extreme and unintended boost to his psychic ability. In addition, his body would be unaffected even if frogman reduced 99.9% of Akumo's brain capacity due to instinctive action. Because of this, Frogman using precog should know better.

Illusion Manipulation won't work either because Clairvoyance allows Akumo to see their real strength anyway, and he can just sense it naturally like with Seiya (could do this even in previous forms). Plus, Akumo's vision would just go through Rapid Evolution to the point of the illusions being nonexistent to him. It would definitely not the first time he's dealt with illusory moves and overcome them in a very short time period. At this point, he isn't one to underestimate an enemy either, since every foe he's faced has been stronger than the last in increasing succession.

Still little buffed Akumo will send the Sheer Perfection Tornado Torrent of Terror + Sheer Perfection Master Twister at main Frogman. TP Deferoid will activate, teleporting all damage these skills would do on Frogman, safely away. TP Deferoid lasts 3 seconds, more than enough time to get to the point where Akumo stands/or leaves and just happens the first wincoin. Then only the spinning remains from ‘Sheer Perfection Master Twister’, upon realizing Frogman is spinning already, that would just help Frogman (as he can rotate the spinning direction Akumo intended into the one Frogman wants, using the wind manip ) Esper barrier around himself would simply burn away like paper under decay burning of rotating Dragon Blades. And Frogman can easily overpower Akumo's buffed telekinesis too, either by strength from his future self or with the help of clones.

• TP Deferoid - Activated instantly with a 3-second duration upon main Frogman getting a crucial hit (8 seconds cooldown starting upon activation). Alters armor of tiny portals even filling Frogman's body with, teleporting all forms of attacks incoming (even their DMG energy) into the around area, twisting them in opposite direction. All 'unwanted' in the body (such as poisons, negative effects, damage) is teleported out as well. The clones experience 50% version of this.

Just want to say again that even 'little buff' for this stage of Akumo is easily enough to be a few folds of multiplied strength. The Vs Battle Wiki identifies One-Shots to be a 7.5 times difference in AP between two given fighters. One of Seiya's abilities is her power to always passively have the physical AP to one shot an opponent in front of her if she wishes to, which means that her AP is constantly and consistency that much higher than an enemy at minimum if it wasn't higher already. Akumo is capable of copying these stat boosts from her instantly as they occur, and with rapid evolution providing instant/very fast ('rapid' if you will' add ons for these booststo Akumo, he can easily boost up to ten times his current stats without even really fighting yet, and this is considered a small type of power up when it comes to Evolution of Will's advanced Rapid Evolution/being able to force evolution for any given situation now. This all includes reaction time as well as his clairvoyance undergoing huge power ups , and even moreso than normal from the vision likely being blurry at first. Even the tiniest buffs on Akumo are nothing to scoff at, in addition to the buffs he would automatically gain as soon as the fight begins. When part of Akumo upgrades, the rest of him also feels a smaller verion of the upragde. In fact, even every breath and other mini movement equals small boosts all around for Akumo. Literally everything raises his stats. Although, since frogman doesn’t travel that extents ap advantage instantly, odds are Akumo doesn’t get a boost like times 10, but it could be close to it since his love with dragon saber is so severe and clairvoyance let’s akumo mostly see what’s going on/possible

The Master Twister doesn't work like what Frogman would attempt to use it for either. It typically will freeze the opponent in place via telekinesis before ripping them apart using psychic waves (In fact, telekinesis is already so powerful by default that it can freeze biology pertaining to Regeneration). This telekinesis on its own does not count as Damage Energy, or a poison, negative effect, or otherwise, as it's a pure hold derived from a mental ability using pure LS as a basis, making it immune to TP Deferoid (outside of the pure damage itself, the LS hold cannot be removed. In addition, the effect is totally outside of Frogman's body, and therefore is outside of the range of TP Deferoid. Akumo can accomplish this effect without completely enveloping him in psychic energy too, just in case the very outer layer of Frogman's skin also counts. Although, this won't be the case since TP Deferoid doesn't have that power. TP Deferoid is specified for Frogman's armor only, even if that counts for the outer layer, it doesn't work for what Akumo's doing). He won't be ripped up as the damage energy is sent away, but he will be greatly slowed down.

That's where the 'strength of Frogman's future self' comes in, since Frogman would need it to get past Akumo's telekinesis (another note, it wouldn't be 'easy' as implied originally regardless), but actually using that would be one of the worst mistakes possible. As soon as that power is unlocked, the very same instant, Akumo's Rapid Evolution rises and copies it (like with Seiya's endless huge power boosts and her LS, Akumo also being able to copy the passive willpower from Seiya and adding it to his own, which is a big reason why his next key is so many times stronger, and more than enough reason on its own for why this works considering how powerful and resistant to most things as Seiya is and Frogman isn't until far later stages) giving him the LS of the later stage Laser Frog's, which is then further and further risen. Frogman using the clones to further boost himself would provide a similar (yet likely smaller) boost effect on Akumo, since he would get this boost by copying all the boosts placed on Frogman regardless of how they happen, no matter what he does, since Rapid Evolution will kick in if his opponent is also getting stronger in any facet (again shown by endlessly raising stats vs Seiya). Akumo could also turn around and use the extra clones he hadn't used yet to further mimic the LS boosting effect onto his own side (could also possibly have a clone (or many) apply telekinesis on the main Akumo to provide another expansive layer of LS, as Rapid evolution would be forced by his own clone to surpass his clones also evolving telekinesis, essentially giving Akumo a stream infinite rising LS which is stacked on top of power mimicry. With the clones telekinesis reacting to Akumo's rapid evolution and getting stronger, the main Akumo's evolution speed is essentially doubled on top of what it's already doing). Akumo's abilities rise at thousands of times faster speed if his opponent is fighting back in such a way (again like with Seiya, as his Esper abilities didn't have much effect on her, but became thousands of times better as he attempted to rip her up yet still failing but reaching the point where he actually COULD move her for a brief moment, but she has adapation too and soon Akumom couldn't move her anymore. Of course, he continued to grow faster and faster until he finally just gained a new form, his High 4-C key), plus his mimicry again making this a perfect combination in addition to all of the other factors contributing to the rapid evolution. Telekinesis would also become strong enough to rip Red Sabers out from Frogman's hands and end his dragon saber attack right there.

Akumo can also create an anti-barrier over Frogman which inverses psychic powers, which would result in any telekinetic counter Frogman or clones attempt would be added to Akumo's power as well as crush Frogman instead under his ownh immense lifting and willpower. Any damage transferal also results in greatly raising Akumo's ability, making it so activating damage transfer is liike an anti-wincon for Frogman.

Other defensive moves like A.T shields or large portals won't work against telekinesis, at least not on time to get Akumo within two seconds considering how much stronger Akumo gets in that time. Plus, him being able to copy these abilities 0.0001 seconds mimum after seeing them begin to be used allows him to use them to further keep Frogman away from him, and he'd also be able to use a portal to get away by the time 2 or 3 seconds is over or just force Frogman through the portals instead. This is also possible if Frogman's clones use portals to defend 10 Point Mortum Ultima Cannon, giving Akumo an out pretty much no matter what.

Frogman probably sees this all coming via precog and could opt to use neither boost, however Akumo's LS still shoots up anyway since Frogman is able to push back at all due to having similar base LS values, but even then, Akumo clones using telekinesis on main Akumo as well as stacking it onto Frogman could achieve a similar LS boost as before even if Frogman does nothing. This means that Akumo can hold him off of his position and avoid the deadly move that 2-second rewind +dragon saber would cause, since prior to the use, Frogman's attack would be greatly slowed and he'd no longer be able to reach where Akumo stands within the allotted time. Thanks to further evolution, this also renders 3-second rewind equally useless, as Frogman wouldn't be able to advance on time.

In addition, TP Deferoid doesn't work for outside forces, as it explicitly points out 'in body' when it comes to negative effects. Just as well, it wouldn't make any sense if it worked here, as he has no methods of Physics Manipulation, not that it would work to get rid of Akumo's method of telekinesis regardless. Plus Akumo's telekinesis in this case doesn't really count as an attack either, which TP Deferoid also says.

Still little buffed Akumo will send the Sheer Perfection Tornado Torrent of Terror + Sheer Perfection Master Twister at main Frogman. TP Deferoid will activate, teleporting all damage these skills would do on Frogman, safely away. TP Deferoid lasts 3 seconds, more than enough time to get to the point where Akumo stands/or leaves and just happens the first wincoin. Then only the spinning remains from ‘Sheer Perfection Master Twister’, upon realizing Frogman is spinning already, that would just help Frogman (as he can rotate the spinning direction Akumo intended into the one Frogman wants, using the wind manip ) Esper barrier around himself would simply burn away like paper under decay burning of rotating Dragon Blades. And Frogman can easily overpower Akumo's buffed telekinesis too, either by strength from his future self or with the help of clones.

Not to mention that Frogman using those methods to overpower Akumo's telekinesis is definitive proof that TP Deferoiod clearly doesn't work for that, since if it did, Frogman would've used it right then.

Also Akumo has much more control over that wind than Frogman does, especially considering that Frgoamn doesn't have pure wind or elemental manipulation in the same case that Miro does, which is who Akumo copied it from. Plus it's just another case of Frogman's fighting back triggering rapid evolution to improve the wind. He'll just convert it into a straight wind blowing backwards, and because it should be equivalent to Akumo's lifting strength, Frogman is going to be thrown backweards like a catapult. All Frogman can do is teleport the slashing effect the wind usually has because of TP Deferoid.

Furthermore, Espers have 2 ways of manipulation over bodies.

1. ⁠Using their own aura and surrounding an object with it to move it, this almost never happens since the second option is easier (plus there’s a chance of TP Deferoid working to get rid of this)
2. ⁠Manipulation of the enemy aura, which is something that can’t really be avoided except by warping out of it or overpowering via LS (something Frogman can’t do due to willpower mimicry + all the other stuff mentioned). The aura is basically one’s pure chi, the embodiment of their existence, which makes it so it can't really be disabled or removed by an ability like TP Deferoid. It would take something more like Gunnix ruby hexagons to work, which Frogman cannot access.

Both of them are more proof for why TP Deferoid won’t work there. Akumo is able to combine both using all of his arms, plus his body instinctively using one while he actively uses the other. In addition, his other arms would greatly empower this, and his clones can all do it too. By improving his clone count during this, he can also create a couple more in the allotted time which can do whatever needed to help Akumo out.

During all of this, Akumo will also slowly move backwards to run out the clock even more.

The final two arms are doing something else behind Akumo's back.

Through all of this, it was forgotten that Akumo explicitly had two extra arms formed behind his back which were 'doing something else'. Well, that something else was Akumo forcing Rapid Evolution onto them in order to generate Red Sabers in an instant. He'll manipulate these arms back into his body, then out through his stomach easily within the 2 seconds and attack with his own evolving version of the Dragon Saber, both larger and faster plus an even higher count of Dragon Heads than Frogman's thanks to the extremely quick evolution, as well as new dragons consiatently spawning around Akumo's blades and body for protection, which will help Akumo greatly at holding Frogman off and disabling his Red Sabers. Even if all the heads destroy each other, Akumo's will have more left over and they will slowly continue to multiply. As the arms themselves are acting as handles for the red saber, he can use his arms elasticity (gained in Evolution of Rage) and stretch the Dragon Saber copy directly into Frogman. Frogman doesn't have any resistance to the effects of the dragon heads bite, although Soul Taunter might help for a few moments before they evolve and overpower that too.

At that point, odds are really high that is Frogman ripped apart anyway, since he won't move forward very much (if anything, he'll be heading backwards rapidly), and Akumo now has that insane LS the entire rest of the fight and always rising + red saber mimicry. Using rewind there also only serves to get rid of Akumo having the LS, and the cooldown of 3.5 seconds kicking in at that point means that Akumo is free from the first 2 seconds hell. Further, that attack drains tons of Frogman stamina, leaving him very wide open as Akumo now has the ability to copy everything and evolves a lot more even faster than before due to clairvoyance + willpower, then just defeats Frogman over and over as he returns via core regeneration, each time Akumo being far stronger (Frogman's core would eventually give up and calls his superiors, a wincon for Akumo). Clairvoyance would tell Akumo that Frogman will return, so Akumo can use the few minutes of off time for Forced Rapid Evolution. Plus, still remembering what happened prior to any rewind helps Akumo copy things much faster.

It's really a nice contrast. While Akumo gets his impressive will (lessened by all Im trying to say) to LAST over the first 2 seconds, Frogman gets immerse will (having the Empowerment, power of rage...) to survive in order to SLICE Akumo within the first two seconds. And given that Akumo can only roughly guess his death while Frogman is pressured to just slay Akumo with all he got, Akumo dying after 2 seconds is highly more probable. Simply put, Stage 4 Frogman's arsenal seems to be a natural counter for Akumo, in the first 2 seconds. That’s why Im remaining voting Frogman.

Akumo having passive Power Mimicry here is going to add Frogman's willpower boosts to Akumo's own (Akumo's power mimicry working far better if he's facing an opponent who has a similar power/ability, as shown in his weakest form, the human form, where he could copy other master martial arts styles. Evolution of Will is advanced to the point that he can copy basically anything anyway, and especially so something so similar to his own willpower ability). In addition to all of the above, I simply don't see Akumo dying very often if at all in the 2 second time-frame. Clairvoyance kicks in instantly, letting Akumo know/guess he dies (neither matters since Akumo has time either way). Rapid Evolution kicks in even before that since Frogman is an equal and starting off with a monstrous move, giving Akumo a multiplier in everything (as described above) which would further increase the chances of him surviving. Master Twister receiving massive LS boost from either Future Frogmen or Frogman's clones destroys the original rewind plan, as Frogman would be unable to advance enough distance to use the dragon heads and Chainsaw Saber.

Once Akumo also realizes that TP Deferoid stopped his attack damage (the instant Frogman starts it), he would convert the rest of his arms into doing the Master Twister which would then add yet more multipliers to his LS atop of the completely massive mimicry boost. Even without the mimicry boost, as I said before, his lifting strength will blast off, even with just the four initial arms. 20+ arms is going to result in dozens of times multiplied LS instantly as each arm contains boosts of their own. To add onto this, Akumo also has Gravity Manipulation, another facet of his Esper Abilities. It initially starts at 1000 times Earth's gravity, but Rapid Evolution fighting against Frogman's resistance and willpower will make it way higher very fast. Frogman also has no resistance to gravity manip on profile. It should also apply the same as Akumo's telekinesis, as Akumo is only using it to hold him down, not to damage. It doesn't count as an effect either, so TP Deferoid is off the table when it comes to the gravity. At best, Frogman can prevent a gravity hold via LS or willpower, but the act of Akumo holding him via gravity can't be nulled.

Also, guessing or knowing if he'd die or not isn't really the kind of fight ender that it may look like on first glance. There is a clear different between knowing or guessing, yes, but this is about whether or not Akumo would die. Even if there is a tiny, minuscule chance of someone dying in real life, they would do everything in their power to avoid this scenario (at least I would, and this extends to my characters, but especially Akumo who has already cheated death countless times). Akumo has no reason to play with death here. All guessing vs knowing really determines is how much Rapid Evolution takes effect, and either way, it's going to be at least overwhelming due to how amazing it is by default. Akumo wouldn't take a chance even if he could only foresee a 0.001% chance of dying. For him, even that is too much. So he would be pushing just as hard as Frogman, if not harder during this sequence regardless of whether he guesses or outright knows the dragon saber outcome.

You also said yourself that Akumo 'starts to feel the rotations distorting the very space around them', something he has never experienced before. He wouldn't take that very lightly at all. In fact, that's just something more which adds onto Rapid Evolution even quicker.

And Akumo once more ends up as in the second message, annihilated by the spinning Dragon Blades

After further thinking, 0.02 milliseconds reaction time is unchanged by 2 second rewind (this is Akumo's default reaction time, and is the low end of how fast he'd react due to nthe difference between guessing or knowing being 0.0001), which means that Akumo still has enough time to react in case Frogman does rewind like before. Clairvoyance is guaranteed to let Akumo know that it's coming, plus (I already said this many times before), he doesn't need to actually perceive it to react to it. If we assume Frogman faces no resistance from Akumo like in the faulty first scenario, Akumo still has a few factors which could let him survive. His willpower, on its own, is enough for Akumo to resist a fatal attack (and even before, being able to survive tens of thousands of degrees Celsius blasts from Father Monster via willpower even back when he was just a human, Evolution of Will being FAR beyond this kind of feat). Frogman's willpower likely also kicks in, but I already mentioned what would happen with Akumo then (Power Mimicry + Rapid Evolution instant combo giving Akumo the same willpower boosts as Frogman, then advancing them beyond). This, combined with clairvoyance (seeing exactly what Frogman would do, even if blurry, is still more than enough for him), instinctive action (his body preforming best optimal moves and abilities no matter what, even without clairvoyance), power mimicry (low odds of being able to copy and then reverse the 2-second rewind with an improved version of his own, but also possibly generating red sabers from his remaining pieces to counter with his own dragon heads. What's actually most likely to happen would just be Akumo copying willpower boosts), and Akumo's general senses also teaming with Power Mimicry (sensing all of the Frogman clones defense tactics and then adding smaller versions to his own via extreme Rapid Evolution since he's dying, potentially making an impenetrable force around himself), at the minimum would give him just enough of a slither to survive the original dragon blade assault, with even the tiniest part of him shooting up in resistance (to the decay burning effect which actually greatly helps that singular piece as all of the Rapid Evolution focuses solely on that while all other parts die as before), self-biological manipulation being capable of replacing parts hurt by deconstruction barely quick enough to survive, and regeneration (greatly surpassing low-High if Akumo can force evolve enough) to recover afterwards (while using Esper power to escape extremely far distance in 0.00001 seconds, likely less as evolution forces his speed alongside everything else). Even if Frogman sees that coming (precog) and attempts to eat the piece with a Dragon head, Akumo's clairvoyance would've already shown it to him and he'd react in a way that leads to survival (perfect dodging, Esper barriers stacked up forcing dragon heads to take more time, quick bilogical manipulation and many methods of forced rapid evolution, etc). Frogman doesn't have precog feats or explanations on profile outside of just being able to make an organ which shows possibilities of Akumos power, so it looks like Akumo's clairvoyance greatly surpasses the precog here just when it comes to viewing the immediate futures, giving him the ability to live even without instinct if necessary. Every factor coming together and combining actually makes Frogman's original wincon less and less likely, although it would still work fine as a wincon since Akumo doing all of this would be at least pretty difficult, even for him, and needing to use forced evolution instantly too. I'd give it about a 60/40 chance of going for Frogman, not nearly as damning as it was on first glance, because Akumo doing all of this perfectly is pretty low odds, especially against the proficiency of Stage 4. But again, because of all the above stuff, akumo would prevent this from occurring altogether.

Then again, Akumo is also capapble of absorbing energy, inclduing very fiery kinds of energy, which is what the red laser seems to be like. Considering that the Red Saber seems at least somewhat energy based, I think that can help Akumo out too, especially with Rapid Evolution improving that aspect of him.

It's true that would lessen Frogman's hostility. Yet at this point, Frogman becomes "the opponent he needs to defeat to achieve his goals of resetting the world", the time for talk is lost. And Frogman is also in a tournament with the task of making FU famous in this world, getting utterly defeated would mean a 99% mission failure. In this arena and in this world, stage 4 Frogman "is FU itself". Making connections can come after showing strength to those unable to listen.


Furthermore, as Frogman advances at (now evading Akumo), these are the two things frightening him. "Just what on earth is this guy's potential, more, I need to bring even MORE firepower!" Stage 4 manages to add another effect blade on the current Dragon Blades he is spinning with.

• Chainsaw Saber - All Red Saber energy concentrates into a smaller rotating chainsaw. By this, the Chainsaw Saber trades slower swinging movements with a maximal range of just 5 meters for 10x bigger AP (of the Chainsaw blade only).

With this combination, the smaller Dragon heads on the Saber start to orbit it like the singular blades of a chainsaw. As Stage 4 doesn't need range, this makes the combined mode even faster, even more damaging, and even more frightening. A nightmare weapon is altered. Frogman continues his rotations nearing at the point Akumo was standing 1,3 seconds in the past. While the clones manage to block Mortum Bursts mostly easily (summoning new and new Laser Blood shields to absorb damage and corrosion of Bursts, then disappearing with it & getting replaced by new ones), the main Frogman tanks the 'Eight Way Thunderclap' (armor's damage reduction & body damage reduction [skin and bones] & Low-High regen), while smaller dragon heads on the blades suck in and consume all Mortum Bursts spheres of corrupted energy coming near main Frogman.

And with excellent timing, the Blades rotating at speeds "breaking speeds" around Frogman (scratched by 'Eight Way Thunderclap') get to the point Akumo was standing exactly 2 seconds ago. Frogman, noticing the clones of Akumo growing stronger and just all the mess he made in just 2 seconds, smiles menacingly (mid-spoilers past 4:15!), as he focuses on 3 words in his head:

Everything being said, I wanna come back to this. So, this scenario is hardly possible anymore. Clairvoyance will show Akumo exactly what would happen, and instictive action leads Akumo to doing the most optimal movements in every given situation. Therefore, seeing as every other scenario has Frogman counters, Akumo is going to combine everything from before into one thing at the start of the match. As this is Frogman's greatest chance at winning (as noted by you, Frogman can see what Akumo is capable of using a precog organ, describing it as why he's using this attack first), I don't see him changing up his moves despite everything listed above this in Akumo's favor. Even using all 400 clones doesn't really change anything due to power mimicry. Pretty much anything else he does just makes it a bit easier for Akumo and allows him to copy Red Sabers too. Any different strategy involving clones is also copied and evolved by Akumo, and he has superior fighting abilities in addition to being able to copy red sabers.

Akumo and his clones will hold Frogman off using a massive combined effort of everything listed before. Due to telekinesis, gravity, and rapid evolution + power mimicry allowing Akumo to copy all of Frogman's boosts AND hold off his movement from reaching his location (renders rewind strat nearly useless), PLUS copying Dragon Saber instantly via forced rapid evolution on his back arms, I don't see Frogman finding very many openings to win this. Forced Rapid Evolution even allows for Akumo to likely survive the original Frogman wincon, and furthermore Forced Rapid Evolution focused on regen can help against WISH Nuke Cast, and Akumo using power mimicry would be able to use his own BFR Bomb to send himself back to the battlefield if Frogman landed it.

I could see Frogman using rewind after Akumo holds him away via Esper power to reset his clone count/red sabers/other stats and abilities gained through evolution and then attempt an all out attack with the clones Frogman was previously using, but Akumo has many ways to dodge/defend and it would only take a couple seconds to completely copy Red Sabers all over again, and as you said before, this attack is gonna drain huge amounts of Frogman stamina anyway, even if he can gain it back via rewind. After that, he'd create many new arms across his body which would all become Red Saber handles and then become constantly evolving red sabers, essentially turning Akumo into a unstoppable force. Akumo would be able to just copy the clone count again too after a couple moments just by being able to see what happened prior to the rewind using Clairvoyance (although he can;t copy what he sees happening in clairvoyance, using those 'memories' equals rapid evolution working much quicker even without Akumo needing to force it). Each clone Akumo would then use after would also all have a body full of Red Sabers. Each time Frogman would return from Core BFR, it would be way worse for him than the previous time. Seeing it so much would also let Akumo be able to self BFR his own heart/"core" if Frogman somehow landed a killing move. The way I've laid everything out, I only see Frogman winning in a pretty limited number of scenarios since akumo largely has the ability to hold off his key plans/abilities/best odds of winning pretty handily.

Akumo turns the fight around FRA

(Also wiki's largest reply or what? )

 

[Phoenks]

Well, that was wildly long. Akumo FRA I suppose.

 

[Rayfire]

Totally Not garou FRA

 

[Froggytron]

I still think it's soon to vote yet.
Akumo winning in a direct clash of abilities still depends on Frogman’s empowerment, moon APtor boosting AP (and all Frogman stats growing equally), and LS overpowering Akumo just as Seya from the start (or to be more precise banishing Akumo from outgrowing Frogman in stats) to still proceed, or proceeding with the rewind sooner (it should be possible as 2/3 second miles are the best grabs, while grabbing sooner would be slippery, the explanation in second message clearly doesn't banish it), or not using rewind at all by using the portal at first try so good to come out of it at Akumo (while already spinning decently to already slice / decay burn him unable to evolve to it in time), the Akumo’s win coin in sheer clash of brute power is still far from won.

And I still haven't mentioned how difficult it is to alter Red Laser's abilities to your liking, it took millions of years & knowledge for ECs to reshape and link Red Laser at frogmen souls. To be able to wield Red Laser abilities at Frogmen caliber, you need to have at least 80%-100% of artificial/true Frogman soul in yourself, which doesn't make you yourself anymore, but a Frogman, Frogkumo in Akumo’s case. To be able to link Red Laser abilities to souls without Frogman’s consciousness of having admin right to your body isn't impossible, but will take patience and knowledge, as ECs did this for millions of years, unable to speed the process up. Nothing prevents Akumo from evolving Red Laser abilities replicas, but then just as Red Stickmen replicas, they will always end up overwritten in a clash with true Red Laser.

But as Frogman also starts with precognition (which is greatly advanced in stage 4 rather in stage 2, similarly to how Akumo’s power 2 keys prior are nothing against the present ones), seeing Akumo still stomping him could let Frogman choose a different strategy whatsoever, completely reforging (again) the fight. There are countless and countless of strategies Frogman could do besides winning with sheer brute force, here are some I thought out:

New Blade modes: ‘It's true that could be the end of Frogman. However, this all leaves out one extremely important detail… Frogman has limited power bestowal in R.S.blades’. Seeing how the original strategy could end up if Frogman fails to finish Akumo, Frogman might focus most of his capacity on new Red Saber blades specialized at dealing with Recreative Evolution. Unlike stage 3, stage 4 Frogmen have the potential to develop their own blades with unique effects. This ability is already established by ECs, not being a new reshaping of Red Laser taking forever (also a reason why it took so long, giving very experienced Frogmen their own sandbox). The possibilities are almost endless.

Conceptual Fear: It's worth mentioning that Conceptual Fear won't do much to Akumo himself (as he doesn’t have a very high sin-meter + he killed evil monsters), but there is something other, particularly evil in Akumo. It’s the thing ‘Monster Savior’ key Akumo mentions, the ‘demon’ he has been purged of. There is no denying this demon/demon power/demon seed is highly evil, its Sin Meter would be gigantic. And Conceptual Fear being above 3D space power could as well slow down, stun, or maybe even force this to leave Akumo. Great odds are Akumo’s Recreative Evolution directly linked with this would get slowed, stunned, or even deleted, as the demon power left.

W.I.S.H nuke cast: Being a key Red Laser spell too, could be not used to directly attack Akumo at all, but rather his demon side influencing him (which Frogman will have no trouble noticing with Sin Vision). Akumo’s whole recreative evolution based on Demon/Demon seed implanted in him could be stopped or potentially 100% reverted by W.I.S.H nuke cast destroying Demon/Demon seed implanted in Akumo, as Frogman would concentrate on destroying only it and W.I.S.H nuke cast is on the same caliber as time rewinds and other powers bypassing rules of 3D reality.

Pacifist run: Frogman also might start 100% differently and convince Akumo to cooperate with FU, which essentially possesses the same goal, to remove all evil beings from the world, aka reset the world. Frogman (knowing about the sins Akumo made from Sin-Vision, causing pain to a lot of innocent heroes, yelling at them vulgarity, etc) could further explain Sin Vision and how it enables FU to prevent any false accusations, seeing who truly is evil. While using arsenal only for evading defensively (no clones), Akumo’s evolving rate could be at the lowest rate (compared to previous scenarios), and Frogman could gain great amounts of time to convince Akumo with Social Influencing. Pardon me if Im wrong, but Akumo doesn’t have Social Influencing resistance anywhere written, I even tried searching just the word ‘Social’, with 0 results. While Frogman has great Social Influencing from stage 1, being nothing compared to the Social Influencing of stage 4 with his intelligence of a near-ruby general. As mentioned in the personality tabber, even general Frogmen don’t act in the egoistic sense Akumo despises, at least towards their friends (which Frogman would wanna Akumo to be).

It can't be argued that Akumo would see a betrayal in the future, as Frogman would mean this in pure honesty once he goes in this way (worth noting Frogman wanted Akumo at FU’s side from the start, via the story). Akumo’s body and rage (unaffected by emotional manip in the 'will evolution' key) together with Demon power could only postpone this, until Akumo starts fighting it, or Akumo himself agrees for Conceptual Fear/ W.I.S.H nuke cast being cast at his body to support freeing him from demonic powers, knowing FU is here with great power to reset the world for him. Ironically, this could be the greatest Frogman’s win coin so far, if Akumo 100% agrees. If Akumo partners with FU with his current power, then it feels more like Incon, as both sides partnered up instead of fighting.


Summary: That said, if Akumo still (by clairvoyance) can reforge the fight from the start again (the important fact is how you mentioned seeing things in the future doesn't automatically evolve him), these two could just pink-pong the future of the fight almost infinitely, each of them coming with better ways upon seeing getting almost stomped by all the other thought to not get stomped in the first place). Then this fight would seem more like an Incon too. These two might just stand on their original spots and after dozens of future-seeings in the first moment, conclude they don't want to fight in the first place, partnering as in the Pacifist run.

Pacifist run also favors Frogman with both of them having similar views, the opportunity to show Akumo the best way to reset the world (where even general Frogmen don’t see themselves as something bigger than low sin-meters), making clairvoyance an ally (instead of the most countering ability) to show Akumo no loopbacks or intends of Frogman & FU in betraying him, the chance of Frogman being the very first being wanting to help Akumo sincerely, further Frogmen are antiheroes, able to show their kill-count of evil being by their own sin meter, an additional proof they work on similar goal as Akumo. Further, in terms of VSBattling, Stage 4 has advanced Social Influencing while Akumo has no resistance to it. I also recall hearing that even Angel of Death Akumo could be convinced into nonreviving anymore, meaning convincing Akumo is indeed possible. All of these facts partner greatly together in convincing Akumo to stop fighting. It's actually scary how many factors there are for Frogman to use to convince Akumo, partnering with FU in slaying evil beings together.

 

[Rayfire]

Totally Not garou FRA

Nvm I retract this cause froggy just replied

 

[Froggytron]

Nvm I retract this cause froggy just replied

you have my respect

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I still think it's soon to vote yet.
Akumo winning in a direct clash of abilities still depends on Frogman’s empowerment, moon APtor boosting AP (and all Frogman stats growing equally), and LS overpowering Akumo just as Seya from the start (or to be more precise banishing Akumo from outgrowing Frogman in stats) to still proceed, or proceeding with the rewind sooner (it should be possible as 2/3 second miles are the best grabs, while grabbing sooner would be slippery, the explanation in second message clearly doesn't banish it), or not using rewind at all by using the portal at first try so good to come out of it at Akumo (while already spinning decently to already slice / decay burn him unable to evolve to it in time), the Akumo’s win coin in sheer clash of brute power is still far from won.

Akumo copies all of those boosts, as mentioned previously, in addition to his own boosts and increasing evolution. Frogman at Stage 4 is also nothing next to Seiya and doesn't have the ability to gain power so overwhelming that he could kill Akumo in one effortless punch if he wanted to.

The thing also is that Akumo stops his charge entirely via telekinesis either way, so a portal wouldn't do much good either. Akumo's abilities are stacked hard against Frogman when it comes to that clash, but you're right that it isn't an automatic thing.

And I still haven't mentioned how difficult it is to alter Red Laser's abilities to your liking, it took millions of years & knowledge for ECs to reshape and link Red Laser at frogmen souls. To be able to wield Red Laser abilities at Frogmen caliber, you need to have at least 80%-100% of artificial/true Frogman soul in yourself, which doesn't make you yourself anymore, but a Frogman, Frogkumo in Akumo’s case. To be able to link Red Laser abilities to souls without Frogman’s consciousness of having admin right to your body isn't impossible, but will take patience and knowledge, as ECs did this for millions of years, unable to speed the process up. Nothing prevents Akumo from evolving Red Laser abilities replicas, but then just as Red Stickmen replicas, they will always end up overwritten in a clash with true Red Laser.

This is true, Akumo is a completely different beast though, and this wouldn't be the first time he copies someone's robotic anatomy, like he does with both Ako and Aiden (which needs to be on his profile stat). Not sure if copying the anatomy of Frogman would result in Akumo losing due to the DNA though (self biological manip likely lets Akumo alter the DNA enough to keep his original plots and motivation to fight though). If it would make him lose, he'd know not to do it thanks to Clairvoyance.

As for replicas, Akumo is obviously galaxies beyond a Red Stickman, so I imagine it would actually work decently, at least for a little bit while it evovles and becomes closer and closer to a real red saber, as Rapid Evolution pretty much lets Akumo speedrun thousands and thousands of years of training in miliseconds depedning on the situation.

New Blade modes: ‘It's true that could be the end of Frogman. However, this all leaves out one extremely important detail… Frogman has limited power bestowal in R.S.blades’. Seeing how the original strategy could end up if Frogman fails to finish Akumo, Frogman might focus most of his capacity on new Red Saber blades specialized at dealing with Recreative Evolution. Unlike stage 3, stage 4 Frogmen have the potential to develop their own blades with unique effects. This ability is already established by ECs, not being a new reshaping of Red Laser taking forever (also a reason why it took so long, giving very experienced Frogmen their own sandbox). The possibilities are almost endless.

Likewise, Akumo has Transformation and Biological Manipulation (Akumo has achieved a level of unparalleled mastery and adaptation so skillful that he can manipulate the DNA of his own body to give himself extra power at will. Using the ability to change himself, he gave himself a seventh and eighth arm as well as four wings. He also continuously improved his body's natural armor and raised his power level. Can give himself necessary powers to defeat an opponent, unless said opponent is already well beyond his strength)

Obviously, Frogman is not 'already well beyond his strength', as their AP and LS are nearly the exact same. This should include sufficent ways for him to survive Red Sabers as well as counterattack. Plus, copying those defensive abilities and TP Deferoid ought to be of use too. The possiblities for Akumo look to be equally as endless.

Conceptual Fear: It's worth mentioning that Conceptual Fear won't do much to Akumo himself (as he doesn’t have a very high sin-meter + he killed evil monsters), but there is something other, particularly evil in Akumo. It’s the thing ‘Monster Savior’ key Akumo mentions, the ‘demon’ he has been purged of. There is no denying this demon/demon power/demon seed is highly evil, its Sin Meter would be gigantic. And Conceptual Fear being above 3D space power could as well slow down, stun, or maybe even force this to leave Akumo. Great odds are Akumo’s Recreative Evolution directly linked with this would get slowed, stunned, or even deleted, as the demon power left.

It would also just rersult in rapid evolution since Akumo's body would instantly respond to such a thing via evovling itself, but considering the low-sin meter aspect making it not very stroing vs Akumo, the boost Akumo would get likely isn't much better than the effect placed upon him already. The demon itself ism also above 3 space power, so not sure if it would work that way, but it could make Akumo aware that there is something else which is on the inside of him, which might be able to assist with social influencing mentioned below. It's also true that Rapid Evolution is the result of that demon's power manifesting within Akumo, so if it did leave, so would the evolving power, and Akumo would skip over to his Monster Acceptance Movement key as his Monster shell shatters around him. As Evolution of Will finally turns Akumo into a 100% monsterized being, there's not a way to make him human again, but he'd return to being a good guy.

W.I.S.H nuke cast: Being a key Red Laser spell too, could be not used to directly attack Akumo at all, but rather his demon side influencing him (which Frogman will have no trouble noticing with Sin Vision). Akumo’s whole recreative evolution based on Demon/Demon seed implanted in him could be stopped or potentially 100% reverted by W.I.S.H nuke cast destroying Demon/Demon seed implanted in Akumo, as Frogman would concentrate on destroying only it and W.I.S.H nuke cast is on the same caliber as time rewinds and other powers bypassing rules of 3D reality.

The demon manipulating Akumo is a tier 2 entity also knowing Magistream Magic, so I'm not really of the belief that WISH Nuke Cast would do that much to it. And once again, the demon also bypasses those 3D rules + knowing Magistream Magic, making it extremely difficult. However, it isn't impossible since the demon is sealed and can only marginally manipulate Akumo directly, as he clearly prefers doing it passdively via rapid evolution and changing his emotions/feelings and motivation. I could see Frogman being able to get the demon out, high-diff though.

Pacifist run: Frogman also might start 100% differently and convince Akumo to cooperate with FU, which essentially possesses the same goal, to remove all evil beings from the world, aka reset the world. Frogman (knowing about the sins Akumo made from Sin-Vision, causing pain to a lot of innocent heroes, yelling at them vulgarity, etc) could further explain Sin Vision and how it enables FU to prevent any false accusations, seeing who truly is evil.

The other thing with Akumo isn't that he just wnats to eliminate evil beings, he wants to eliminate all beings, as such, a 'reset of the world'. However, this is only based on what he says out loud. In reality, much like his grandfather, he doersn't really want to hurt anyone, just teach the world some lessons. Plus, he's just been manipulated by this demon who took advantage of Akumo's valid feelings when it comes to corrupt individuals, twisting it to where he saw anyone with power, whether it be fighting ability or political power, as his enemy. It's not just that he wants to destroy these people with power, he just doesn't trust them, which is why it was easy to have Akumo target heroes. He doesn't trust people like Saitama (who he knows all about becauase of history classes), or Seiya, or the S Class Heroes to wield their power for doing good deeds. He would not trust Frogman either, especially with those fearsome hax. Frogman would have to really prove to Akumo that he's completely different. Although, even without the Demon, Akumo still harbors 'reset' like feelings when it comes to 'Witches' and it's very possible he'd maintain these feelings when hearing about or seeing the higher stages of Frogmen or EC's unless he's absoutely convinced of their goodness.

While using arsenal only for evading defensively (no clones), Akumo’s evolving rate could be at the lowest rate (compared to previous scenarios), and Frogman could gain great amounts of time to convince Akumo with Social Influencing. Pardon me if Im wrong, but Akumo doesn’t have Social Influencing resistance anywhere written, I even tried searching just the word ‘Social’, with 0 results. While Frogman has great Social Influencing from stage 1, being nothing compared to the Social Influencing of stage 4 with his intelligence of a near-ruby general. As mentioned in the personality tabber, even general Frogmen don’t act in the egoistic sense Akumo despises, at least towards their friends (which Frogman would wanna Akumo to be).

Frogman would basically be doing what Seiya was tryinjg to do, but a lot better since she sucks at it (her method was basically to let Akumo beat her up while attempting to tell him to stop, which was really just advancing evolution constantly and making him more and more angry, like with Evolution of Rage, where Akumo got so mad at the way Seiya was talking to him + her tanking everything that he straight up gained a new form). As stated before, Akumo has major trust issues with 'heropic' people who have strong abiltieis/hax, so Frogman would need to be extrermely convicning, plus the demon further manipulating Akumo is also a factor. Frogman not acting with ego in his voice or moves would be a big help, as it's different from most of S Class.

It can't be argued that Akumo would see a betrayal in the future, as Frogman would mean this in pure honesty once he goes in this way (worth noting Frogman wanted Akumo at FU’s side from the start, via the story). Akumo’s body and rage (unaffected by emotional manip in the 'will evolution' key) together with Demon power could only postpone this, until Akumo starts fighting it, or Akumo himself agrees for Conceptual Fear/ W.I.S.H nuke cast being cast at his body to support freeing him from demonic powers, knowing FU is here with great power to reset the world for him. Ironically, this could be the greatest Frogman’s win coin so far, if Akumo 100% agrees. If Akumo partners with FU with his current power, then it feels more like Incon, as both sides partnered up instead of fighting.

Worth noting that 'reset the world', while orignaslly well meaning, was twisted up to mean killing everyone by the demon, Frogman would have to be sure to be speaking about it's original meaning. In addition, as listed before, it would be incredibly difficult to force the demon out of his body this way since Stage 4 doesn';t have the same trump-card power that Seiya does. This might change if kaumo knows there's a demon and works with Frogman, though, since Seiya had to force it.

Summary: That said, if Akumo still (by clairvoyance) can reforge the fight from the start again (the important fact is how you mentioned seeing things in the future doesn't automatically evolve him), these two could just pink-pong the future of the fight almost infinitely, each of them coming with better ways upon seeing getting almost stomped by all the other thought to not get stomped in the first place). Then this fight would seem more like an Incon too. These two might just stand on their original spots and after dozens of future-seeings in the first moment, conclude they don't want to fight in the first place, partnering as in the Pacifist run.

Pacifist run also favors Frogman with both of them having similar views, the opportunity to show Akumo the best way to reset the world (where even general Frogmen don’t see themselves as something bigger than low sin-meters), making clairvoyance an ally (instead of the most countering ability) to show Akumo no loopbacks or intends of Frogman & FU in betraying him, the chance of Frogman being the very first being wanting to help Akumo sincerely, further Frogmen are antiheroes, able to show their kill-count of evil being by their own sin meter, an additional proof they work on similar goal as Akumo. Further, in terms of VSBattling, Stage 4 has advanced Social Influencing while Akumo has no resistance to it. I also recall hearing that even Angel of Death Akumo could be convinced into nonreviving anymore, meaning convincing Akumo is indeed possible. All of these facts partner greatly together in convincing Akumo to stop fighting. It's actually scary how many factors there are for Frogman to use to convince Akumo, partnering with FU in slaying evil beings together.

Akumo's clairvoyance only shows Akumo what WOULD happen, so if Frogman does do the pacifist approach, Akumo would see Frogman only defending and probably just be confused. Rapid Evolution wouldn't be so monstrous at that point.

Also, Akumo in Angel of Death was not just 'convinced to quit' by socal influencing (or other similar power), Seiya basically had to annihilate him so throughly that the demon got ripped out of his soul/existense, and she did this via Consectuive Moja Punches, which basically 'killed' Angel of Death Akumo and destroyed all of his abilities in one swoop, essentially stomping him. Seiya pretty much punched him with the power of a 'higher realm' so to speak. After that, Akumo was in control of himself completely again, and THEN he could be convinced, Plus, Seiya and Akumo's sister Okami saved him from being stomped by Darox after everything, which allowed Akumo to get away and become part of Monster Acceptence Movement. It's also possible the demon forces rapid evolution himself against Akumo's will to make him resist social influencing if Frogman doesn't convince Akumo of the demons existense on time. Akumo should also be able to copy social influencing since he can copy other abstract abilities like willpower empowerment.

Tbh, now I think this whole thing is just gonna wind up with incon. Social influencoing isn't really gonna defeat Akumo, since convincing him to quit shouldn't count as straight up beating him. Of course, in terms of actual fighting, I'm not sure one takes it over the other due to precog and clairvoyance working agasinst each other and making thousands of different ability or plan combos possible on both sides, basically giving both Frogman and Akumo countless wincons depending on all the possible results. Rapid Evolution working at maximum capability probably gives Akumo the advantage, though, plus all of his power mimicry.

However, there are also X-factors. For instance, would Frogman be able to convince Akumo to stp fighting outright? I'm not so sure. Akumo is very resolute in his resolve to win every fight he's in in order to reset the world (the reason for Evolution of Resolve), in addition, the demon can force rapid evolution to resist social influencing. BUT if Frogman would convince Akumo of the demon, he'd want to get it out. At that point, the demon doesn't have nearly as much influence, and Akumo would let Frogman help him. Frogman has great social infleucning, so it's very possible. But the onje where the demon rasises resisatnce on time is also very possible, depending on just how great Frogman's social is.

There's also a chance that while Frogman only defends vs Akumo that 'super-clairvoyance' occurs and Akumo sees Neptune conquering worlds in the future (this happened multiple times when Akumo fought Seiya). If Frogman also has a method of also seeing this, or if he convinces Akumo to tell him about it, there's high odds that they'd ally together to stop the conqeruing future across space, especially since this seems to be FU's main objective (stopping highly powerful cosmic beings from annihilating entire worlds/races.

I'm changing my vote to Incon FRA. As for who gets the gold medal, I think now that it should go to Frogman, since it looks like the optimal result is the one where Frogman does the pacifist stuff/removes Akumo's demon and they become friendly.

 

[ExSENNA]

Da fuq is 3 space?

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Da fuq is 3 space?

I assumed that ‘bypassing rules of 3D space’ meant something that can effect someone of Low 2-C or higher as that is usually referred to as 4D

 

[ExSENNA]

I assumed that ‘bypassing rules of 3D space’ meant something that can effect someone of Low 2-C or higher as that is usually referred to as 4D

Bruh I said smurf stuff ain't allowed in most cases on the main thread

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Bruh I said smurf stuff ain't allowed in most cases on the main thread

Tbf that wasn’t in play until it was said that WISH nuke cast or conceptual fear could do that via effecting the demon which gives Akumo rapid evolution

 

[ExSENNA]

Tbf that wasn’t in play until it was said that WISH nuke cast or conceptual fear could do that via affecting the demon which gives Akumo rapid evolution

The only way I would let Smurfness pass is if it is useless like not applicable for combat lol

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

The only way I would let Smurfness pass is if it is useless like not applicable for combat lol

Technically it wouldn’t be used on Akumo, it’s being used to try and purge the demon influence in him, which, to be fair to Frogman, probably doesn’t actually need to bypass 3D rules to work since the actual demon isn’t really doing anything here and it’s mostly just a spell he cast/seed placed inside Akumo’s soul, so it doesn’t need to be applied in a smurfy way to work for what Frogman is attempting

 

[ExSENNA]

Technically it wouldn’t be used on Akumo, it’s being used to try and purge the demon influence in him, which, to be fair to Frogman, probably doesn’t actually need to bypass 3D rules to work since the actual demon isn’t really doing anything here and it’s mostly just a spell he cast/seed placed inside Akumo’s soul, so it doesn’t need to be applied in a smurfy way to work for what Frogman is attempting

The issue isn't whether it is used or not, t is about whether Akumo and Frogman have 4D stuff that they can use and benefit from. I'd have to DQ them if they do as per the rules of the Tournament, wouldn't I?

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

The issue isn't whether it is used or not, t is about whether Akumo and Frogman have 4D stuff that they can use and benefit from. I'd have to DQ them if they do as per the rules of the Tournament, wouldn't I?

Evolution of will akumo does not, I was just pointing out that it might take such a thing to get rid of Akumo’s demon. Froggy will need to clear up Frogman’s side, but Akumo is clean. Also my assumptions about what he meant about bypassing 3D space could also be totally wrong and then none of it matters

 

[ExSENNA]

The demon manipulating Akumo is a tier 2 entity

You said this earlier, meaning the Demon inside him is a Tier 2/4D being (?)

This is fine as long as it doesn't grant Akumo any 4D ability, the Demon itself being 4D is fine if its influence on Akumo is around 3D.

We'll hear from Froggy then let's see

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

You said this earlier, meaning the Demon inside him is a Tier 2/4D being (?)

This is fine as long as it doesn't grant Akumo any 4D ability, the Demon itself being 4D is fine if its influence on Akumo is around 3D.

Yeah that’s exactly it

 

[Froggytron]

Frogman would basically be doing what Seiya was tryinjg to do, but a lot better since she sucks at it (her method was basically to let Akumo beat her up while attempting to tell him to stop, which was really just advancing evolution constantly and making him more and more angry, like with Evolution of Rage, where Akumo got so mad at the way Seiya was talking to him + her tanking everything that he straight up gained a new form). As stated before, Akumo has major trust issues with 'heropic' people who have strong abiltieis/hax, so Frogman would need to be extrermely convicning, plus the demon further manipulating Akumo is also a factor. Frogman not acting with ego in his voice or moves would be a big help, as it's different from most of S Class.

Tbh, now I think this whole thing is just gonna wind up with incon. Social influencoing isn't really gonna defeat Akumo, since convincing him to quit shouldn't count as straight up beating him. Of course, in terms of actual fighting, I'm not sure one takes it over the other due to precog and clairvoyance working agasinst each other and making thousands of different ability or plan combos possible on both sides, basically giving both Frogman and Akumo countless wincons depending on all the possible results. Rapid Evolution working at maximum capability probably gives Akumo the advantage, though, plus all of his power mimicry.

There's also a chance that while Frogman only defends vs Akumo that 'super-clairvoyance' occurs and Akumo sees Neptune conquering worlds in the future (this happened multiple times when Akumo fought Seiya). If Frogman also has a method of also seeing this, or if he convinces Akumo to tell him about it, there's high odds that they'd ally together to stop the conqeruing future across space, especially since this seems to be FU's main objective (stopping highly powerful cosmic beings from annihilating entire worlds/races.

After reading all, I can agree, it's like a loot box spamming quantum of theoretical win-coins for both Akumo and Stage 4 Frogman until Frogman does all in his power to convince Akumo about the demon manipulating him, and with some further luck, they go fighting Neptune together instead.

Switching my vote to Incon FRA

You said this earlier, meaning the Demon inside him is a Tier 2/4D being (?)

This is fine as long as it doesn't grant Akumo any 4D ability, the Demon itself being 4D is fine if its influence on Akumo is around 3D.

We'll hear from Froggy then let's see

Also about this, Frogman has a similar case. While the true mastered power of Red Laser can get one to lower 2 tier stats of power, which operates on higher than 3D principles, only the end stages (like stages 10 and 11, maybe 9) can access it through literally hundreds of thousands of years of training and grinding EXP to get these stats.

What stage 4 has compared to that are 6-tier (lower 5-tier with Moon AP-tor) attacks with a fraction of influence on their techniques, allowing, for example, to rewind up to 2/3 seconds of time in the 3D area around them, or damaging the connection with 4D being using the 6-tier (lower 5-tier with Moon AP-tor) damage focused in that direction.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

What stage 4 has compared to that are 6-tier (lower 5-tier with Moon AP-tor) attacks with a fraction of influence on their techniques, allowing, for example, to rewind up to 2/3 seconds of time in the 3D area around them, or damaging the connection with 4D being using the 6-tier (lower 5-tier with Moon AP-tor) damage focused in that direction.

I see now how it would be able to purge the demon from Akumo even without actually hurting the demon (as that requires 4D abilities disallowed in this tourney), ofc it’s a lot easier if Akumo is convinced first. Simply shredding the connection between them is something anyone could do with the right abilities

Btw the votes now are incon 2, Akumo 1 (phoenks vote)

 

[ExSENNA]

After reading all, I can agree, it's like a loot box spamming quantum of theoretical win-coins for both Akumo and Stage 4 Frogman until Frogman does all in his power to convince Akumo about the demon manipulating him, and with some further luck, they go fighting Neptune together instead.

Switching my vote to Incon FRA

This should not end in an icon, Blood for the Blood God! We must find and crown our UNDISPUTED GOLD MEDALIST CHAMPION AND EMBODIMENT OF INDOMITABLE WILL!

---

But I don't vote in any of the Tournament matches and would like to keep it that way

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

This should not end in an icon, Blood for the Blood God! We must find and crown our UNDISPUTED GOLD MEDALIST CHAMPION OF THE TORMENT AND EMBODIMENT OF INDOMITABLE WILL!

---

But I don't vote in any of the Tournament matches and would like to keep it that way

I mean, I already said that I think gold medal should go to frogman, it’s okay if it’s written as incon on profiles

 

[Froggytron]

I see now how it would be able to purge the demon from Akumo even without actually hurting the demon (as that requires 4D abilities disallowed in this tourney), ofc it’s a lot easier if Akumo is convinced first. Simply shredding the connection between them is something anyone could do with the right abilities

Btw the votes now are incon 2, Akumo 1 (phoenks vote)

• When someone is forced to do harm while being mind-manipulated, possessed, or controlled by any other means, the Sin Meter instead shows as small threats, leading from the victim to the controller behind their actions.

Sin Vision once more becomes a highly useful tool.

I mean, I already said that I think gold medal should go to frogman, it’s okay if it’s written as incon on profiles

Given the sheer loot box of the precog fight and Demon trying to evolve the connection or give abilities to Akumo in order to guard it, combined with Akumo's trust issues, it's difficult to call it a win, even if Frogman possesses somehow better odds with his arsenal specialized at this, if Frogman goes in this fight's direction.

But I don't vote in any of the Tournament matches and would like to keep it that way

That means 1 more vote is neccessary then.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Then I vote incon FRA

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Then I vote incon FRA

Is this grace? I know phoenks has a vote up for akumo, not sure if this means 4 incon is needed

 

[MintyBoi1]

Yeah we need another

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Nvm I retract this cause froggy just replied

Now is your time