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[FINALS] 1st Crosstier Tournament - Laser Frogman vs. Akumo (0-1-4)

It seems the match will be incon eventually, well.

I know the Medals don't mean anything but it is a gimmick I come up with
I'm a wrestling enjoyer and the European Championships were held recently my country smashed it, not bragging lol so I figured to use Medals here, so please play along and act like they matter.

So I made a coin flip without asking either of these guys and Froggy won it,

The winner of the Tournament Froggytron. Gold Medalist 🥇and Champion of the Torment is Laser Frogman. Silver Medalist🥈is Akumo.
 
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ExSENNA said:
So I made a coin flip without asking either of these guys and Froggy won it,
Click to expand...
No way! In the most likely scenario where Akumo and Frogman become allies, Frogman would cut 1/4 of the golden and silver medals anyway, replacing the 1/4s and welding them back, so both have at least part of Gold and Silver in their medal.
 
VeneficaAuthor said:
I mean, I can argue that lots of the power Frogman has is very unfair too, and would be a whole lot more unfair towards Akumo (in fact likely a stomp on Frogman;s side) if not for Rapid Evolution. Both of these characters kinda have that aspect going for them.

The clairvoyance worked like this in both of Akumo's previous matches (most prominently against JavenPlayz, where he also used it to assist with mimicry), so it's not late at all, I just haven't had to explain it until now. Further, the old description was never actually correct, I pointed out that I was just being extremely lazy with the page. The 'new' description is how it's always actually been, just more poor wording in Akumo's profile making it seem different. It comes from Akumo's Esper powers evolving into unseen territory, gigvng him the Third Eye, which is used in OPM by Psykos and a few others to look into the future (can be used to see up to 6 months in the future based on Shibibawa seeing 'The Prophecy', which is theorized to be the coming of God to Earth, so a regular human viewing the future of this extremely powerful being easily using the same ability Evolution of Will Akumo is). Plus, the part of the Veneficaverse story where Akumo uses Clairvoyance (and all other Evolution of Will abilities) was made in June of 2022, long before the red laser lore. There's plenty of receipts too. For instance...

This shows Akumo's clairvoyance, evolution, and instincts in action. Considering that the Akumo fighting Frogman is the one with eight arms, while the excerpt features 6-arm evolution of will Akumo (who had basically just evolved too, the weakest possible evolution of will Akumo could be), the power of instinct and clairvoyance are both far more advanced than they are in this writing and evolve much faster too. Even the lowest setting of Akumo's Third Eye can somewhat view Seiya's actions.

Even if he is distracted his instinctive action will force Akumo to preform the most optimal moves anyway, since he doesn't need to think for it at all. His body essentially fights as a totally separate brain which is impossible to distract. This basically makes it impossible to catch Akumo himself off guard.

"Far less strong" when it comes to Rapid Evolution is still a huge boost at all stats for Akumo. It may not be the astronomical multiplier he'd get by seeing himself die, but he should at least gain a 5-10 times stat explosion for himself pretty much the instant Frogman moves considering what he sees with clairvoyance and the general power emitting from Frogman, plus guessing or assuming that he might die should be enough on its own anyway, even the slightest possible threats to his huge abilities and chances of accomplishing his goal meaning that there's a chance for his Reset to fail. 20 times slower in this instance also still equates to 0.02 milliseconds, which is 100,000 times less time than the 2 full seconds, which means there's hardly a difference either way, and like I said before, Akumo doesn't need to perceive things directly to react or evolve (this would only be necessary for Forced Rapid Evolution). Akumo has all the time in the world to decipher what would happen, so nothing really changes regardless of if Akumo 'knows' or 'guesses'. This doesn't account for the instant increases Akumo gains either, or the buffs from guessing/knowing. All in all, every fasctor at once results in an instant explosion at all stats. This is further explained down below.

It was a shot in the dark for sure 🗿

Seems that Akumo's clairvoyance is already really really good then, seeing as Akumo can glance at the future of those 'Neptune god tiers' who should be comparable when it comes to resistance and pure ability based upon everything I know. Plus being able to use this against Seiya of all people successfully without much trouble even when he first gained that ability which has greatly evolved, is more than enough proof that Akumo's ability surpasses resistance in this case considering how much of a monster she is. The argument that Stage 4 Frogman would have any resistance higher than Seiya is simply impossible to make, plus, Frogman doesn't have a resistance or explanation about a possible resistance to precog/clairvoyance or any other similar resistance to a similar ability on the profile anyway, and unlike with Akumo's clairvoyance (despite the pretty poorly worded explanation which will be updated upon match ending), it isn't implied anywhere on the profile, and I've been through Frogman's whole profile a thousand times even prior to this match, plus me and you have talked lots privately and it hasn't ever come up. It's a pretty powerful claim to make, but if it had substance, it would've been there already, or I'd at least have known about it by now. In addition, Akumo being able to view beings such as Neptune God Tiers via clairvoyance doesn't somehow attribute to a tier 2 power, it just ,makes it to that Akumo sees Frogman's plans and abilities before he uses them. In fact, I doubt it would actually even be blurry, given what I've just described here, but it's still possible at first I guess.

Stage 4 Frogmen aren't the ones facing angelic beings anyway, that's reserved for Stage 8, 9, and 10 Frogmen who have vastly upgraded red laser systems and red saber blades. I'm sure those higher stages can avoid clairvoyance, but in this case, Stage 4 can't really get around that, especially with Frogman being incapable of accessing any of future stages powers outside of LS related stats and no resistance to it anyway, while Akumo can surpass those who do have pretty good resistance to precog. Using 'future Frogman lifting strength' in of itself is pretty questionable since I'd imagine it takes significant exp from them in order to do such a thing, but there doesn't seem to be a drawback on profile. The drawback with Akumo's clairvoyance is that it randomly allows him to observe other worlds future's, which in battle, would be an immense distraction and completely throw him off his game. However, there isn't a chance that it activates during the first few seconds.

I see, I read it wrong then


There's plenty of reason why he would survive though. Details are down below.


They gain the ability to mimic and evolve all of the defensive abilities regardless, and if they can really defend against Akumo's cannons that easily, then it doesn't really matter if they 'benefit less' since Akumo is just gonna improve the already excellent defense powers by huge amounts by forcing his Rapid Evolution onto them, making them extremely beneficial no matter what. Akumo doesn't even need to 'see' them, sensing them plus viewing them visa Clairvoyance ought to be enough to mimic a weaker version which is then upgraded quick by rapid evolution. Spagmatron's are also basically useless due to their Digi-shield cooldowns and Akumo's clones having the ability to evolve a bunch more hands and spam the cannons/other moves. They could also just attempt Master twisters on the clones using their minds, since hand movement isn't truly required. This would make it weaker upon activation, but rapid evolution will fix that weakness quick and Akumo is also obviously far beyond Spagmatron. It would instantly stomp any and all Spagmatron's as soon as they appear, with the clones using clairvoyance to see their placements ahead of time. Akumo can use all the abilities used to defend these beams against the main Frogman right away too.

'Rage' as a concept is already embedded into Akumo, and can't be nullified, due to his experiences with the previous form Evolution of Rage. Evolution of Will Akumo is actually very calm already, seeing as he has all these great abilities to reset the world with in addition to renewed confidence. Frogman's emotion manip would be extremely useful against Evolution of Rage, but the strength of that rage is just a natural part of Akumo now, embedded deep into his very DNA, and then even deeper than that at a fundamental kind of level. He attacks with the power/influence of rage no matter how happy or sad or other emotions he's feeling because of how interweaved it is with him. His evolution speed and increasing capabilities won't be slowed in any way by emotional manipulation.

Mind reduction will also cause an exponential increase in Akumo's mind all around, giving him resistance in addition to vastly multiplied intelligence likely also resulting in an extreme and unintended boost to his psychic ability. In addition, his body would be unaffected even if frogman reduced 99.9% of Akumo's brain capacity due to instinctive action. Because of this, Frogman using precog should know better.

Illusion Manipulation won't work either because Clairvoyance allows Akumo to see their real strength anyway, and he can just sense it naturally like with Seiya (could do this even in previous forms). Plus, Akumo's vision would just go through Rapid Evolution to the point of the illusions being nonexistent to him. It would definitely not the first time he's dealt with illusory moves and overcome them in a very short time period. At this point, he isn't one to underestimate an enemy either, since every foe he's faced has been stronger than the last in increasing succession.

Just want to say again that even 'little buff' for this stage of Akumo is easily enough to be a few folds of multiplied strength. The Vs Battle Wiki identifies One-Shots to be a 7.5 times difference in AP between two given fighters. One of Seiya's abilities is her power to always passively have the physical AP to one shot an opponent in front of her if she wishes to, which means that her AP is constantly and consistency that much higher than an enemy at minimum if it wasn't higher already. Akumo is capable of copying these stat boosts from her instantly as they occur, and with rapid evolution providing instant/very fast ('rapid' if you will' add ons for these booststo Akumo, he can easily boost up to ten times his current stats without even really fighting yet, and this is considered a small type of power up when it comes to Evolution of Will's advanced Rapid Evolution/being able to force evolution for any given situation now. This all includes reaction time as well as his clairvoyance undergoing huge power ups , and even moreso than normal from the vision likely being blurry at first. Even the tiniest buffs on Akumo are nothing to scoff at, in addition to the buffs he would automatically gain as soon as the fight begins. When part of Akumo upgrades, the rest of him also feels a smaller verion of the upragde. In fact, even every breath and other mini movement equals small boosts all around for Akumo. Literally everything raises his stats. Although, since frogman doesn’t travel that extents ap advantage instantly, odds are Akumo doesn’t get a boost like times 10, but it could be close to it since his love with dragon saber is so severe and clairvoyance let’s akumo mostly see what’s going on/possible

The Master Twister doesn't work like what Frogman would attempt to use it for either. It typically will freeze the opponent in place via telekinesis before ripping them apart using psychic waves (In fact, telekinesis is already so powerful by default that it can freeze biology pertaining to Regeneration). This telekinesis on its own does not count as Damage Energy, or a poison, negative effect, or otherwise, as it's a pure hold derived from a mental ability using pure LS as a basis, making it immune to TP Deferoid (outside of the pure damage itself, the LS hold cannot be removed. In addition, the effect is totally outside of Frogman's body, and therefore is outside of the range of TP Deferoid. Akumo can accomplish this effect without completely enveloping him in psychic energy too, just in case the very outer layer of Frogman's skin also counts. Although, this won't be the case since TP Deferoid doesn't have that power. TP Deferoid is specified for Frogman's armor only, even if that counts for the outer layer, it doesn't work for what Akumo's doing). He won't be ripped up as the damage energy is sent away, but he will be greatly slowed down.

That's where the 'strength of Frogman's future self' comes in, since Frogman would need it to get past Akumo's telekinesis (another note, it wouldn't be 'easy' as implied originally regardless), but actually using that would be one of the worst mistakes possible. As soon as that power is unlocked, the very same instant, Akumo's Rapid Evolution rises and copies it (like with Seiya's endless huge power boosts and her LS, Akumo also being able to copy the passive willpower from Seiya and adding it to his own, which is a big reason why his next key is so many times stronger, and more than enough reason on its own for why this works considering how powerful and resistant to most things as Seiya is and Frogman isn't until far later stages) giving him the LS of the later stage Laser Frog's, which is then further and further risen. Frogman using the clones to further boost himself would provide a similar (yet likely smaller) boost effect on Akumo, since he would get this boost by copying all the boosts placed on Frogman regardless of how they happen, no matter what he does, since Rapid Evolution will kick in if his opponent is also getting stronger in any facet (again shown by endlessly raising stats vs Seiya). Akumo could also turn around and use the extra clones he hadn't used yet to further mimic the LS boosting effect onto his own side (could also possibly have a clone (or many) apply telekinesis on the main Akumo to provide another expansive layer of LS, as Rapid evolution would be forced by his own clone to surpass his clones also evolving telekinesis, essentially giving Akumo a stream infinite rising LS which is stacked on top of power mimicry. With the clones telekinesis reacting to Akumo's rapid evolution and getting stronger, the main Akumo's evolution speed is essentially doubled on top of what it's already doing). Akumo's abilities rise at thousands of times faster speed if his opponent is fighting back in such a way (again like with Seiya, as his Esper abilities didn't have much effect on her, but became thousands of times better as he attempted to rip her up yet still failing but reaching the point where he actually COULD move her for a brief moment, but she has adapation too and soon Akumom couldn't move her anymore. Of course, he continued to grow faster and faster until he finally just gained a new form, his High 4-C key), plus his mimicry again making this a perfect combination in addition to all of the other factors contributing to the rapid evolution. Telekinesis would also become strong enough to rip Red Sabers out from Frogman's hands and end his dragon saber attack right there.

Akumo can also create an anti-barrier over Frogman which inverses psychic powers, which would result in any telekinetic counter Frogman or clones attempt would be added to Akumo's power as well as crush Frogman instead under his ownh immense lifting and willpower. Any damage transferal also results in greatly raising Akumo's ability, making it so activating damage transfer is liike an anti-wincon for Frogman.

Other defensive moves like A.T shields or large portals won't work against telekinesis, at least not on time to get Akumo within two seconds considering how much stronger Akumo gets in that time. Plus, him being able to copy these abilities 0.0001 seconds mimum after seeing them begin to be used allows him to use them to further keep Frogman away from him, and he'd also be able to use a portal to get away by the time 2 or 3 seconds is over or just force Frogman through the portals instead. This is also possible if Frogman's clones use portals to defend 10 Point Mortum Ultima Cannon, giving Akumo an out pretty much no matter what.

Frogman probably sees this all coming via precog and could opt to use neither boost, however Akumo's LS still shoots up anyway since Frogman is able to push back at all due to having similar base LS values, but even then, Akumo clones using telekinesis on main Akumo as well as stacking it onto Frogman could achieve a similar LS boost as before even if Frogman does nothing. This means that Akumo can hold him off of his position and avoid the deadly move that 2-second rewind +dragon saber would cause, since prior to the use, Frogman's attack would be greatly slowed and he'd no longer be able to reach where Akumo stands within the allotted time. Thanks to further evolution, this also renders 3-second rewind equally useless, as Frogman wouldn't be able to advance on time.

In addition, TP Deferoid doesn't work for outside forces, as it explicitly points out 'in body' when it comes to negative effects. Just as well, it wouldn't make any sense if it worked here, as he has no methods of Physics Manipulation, not that it would work to get rid of Akumo's method of telekinesis regardless. Plus Akumo's telekinesis in this case doesn't really count as an attack either, which TP Deferoid also says.


Not to mention that Frogman using those methods to overpower Akumo's telekinesis is definitive proof that TP Deferoiod clearly doesn't work for that, since if it did, Frogman would've used it right then.

Also Akumo has much more control over that wind than Frogman does, especially considering that Frgoamn doesn't have pure wind or elemental manipulation in the same case that Miro does, which is who Akumo copied it from. Plus it's just another case of Frogman's fighting back triggering rapid evolution to improve the wind. He'll just convert it into a straight wind blowing backwards, and because it should be equivalent to Akumo's lifting strength, Frogman is going to be thrown backweards like a catapult. All Frogman can do is teleport the slashing effect the wind usually has because of TP Deferoid.

Furthermore, Espers have 2 ways of manipulation over bodies.
  1. ⁠Using their own aura and surrounding an object with it to move it, this almost never happens since the second option is easier (plus there’s a chance of TP Deferoid working to get rid of this)
  2. ⁠Manipulation of the enemy aura, which is something that can’t really be avoided except by warping out of it or overpowering via LS (something Frogman can’t do due to willpower mimicry + all the other stuff mentioned). The aura is basically one’s pure chi, the embodiment of their existence, which makes it so it can't really be disabled or removed by an ability like TP Deferoid. It would take something more like Gunnix ruby hexagons to work, which Frogman cannot access.
Both of them are more proof for why TP Deferoid won’t work there. Akumo is able to combine both using all of his arms, plus his body instinctively using one while he actively uses the other. In addition, his other arms would greatly empower this, and his clones can all do it too. By improving his clone count during this, he can also create a couple more in the allotted time which can do whatever needed to help Akumo out.

During all of this, Akumo will also slowly move backwards to run out the clock even more.

Through all of this, it was forgotten that Akumo explicitly had two extra arms formed behind his back which were 'doing something else'. Well, that something else was Akumo forcing Rapid Evolution onto them in order to generate Red Sabers in an instant. He'll manipulate these arms back into his body, then out through his stomach easily within the 2 seconds and attack with his own evolving version of the Dragon Saber, both larger and faster plus an even higher count of Dragon Heads than Frogman's thanks to the extremely quick evolution, as well as new dragons consiatently spawning around Akumo's blades and body for protection, which will help Akumo greatly at holding Frogman off and disabling his Red Sabers. Even if all the heads destroy each other, Akumo's will have more left over and they will slowly continue to multiply. As the arms themselves are acting as handles for the red saber, he can use his arms elasticity (gained in Evolution of Rage) and stretch the Dragon Saber copy directly into Frogman. Frogman doesn't have any resistance to the effects of the dragon heads bite, although Soul Taunter might help for a few moments before they evolve and overpower that too.

At that point, odds are really high that is Frogman ripped apart anyway, since he won't move forward very much (if anything, he'll be heading backwards rapidly), and Akumo now has that insane LS the entire rest of the fight and always rising + red saber mimicry. Using rewind there also only serves to get rid of Akumo having the LS, and the cooldown of 3.5 seconds kicking in at that point means that Akumo is free from the first 2 seconds hell. Further, that attack drains tons of Frogman stamina, leaving him very wide open as Akumo now has the ability to copy everything and evolves a lot more even faster than before due to clairvoyance + willpower, then just defeats Frogman over and over as he returns via core regeneration, each time Akumo being far stronger (Frogman's core would eventually give up and calls his superiors, a wincon for Akumo). Clairvoyance would tell Akumo that Frogman will return, so Akumo can use the few minutes of off time for Forced Rapid Evolution. Plus, still remembering what happened prior to any rewind helps Akumo copy things much faster.

Akumo having passive Power Mimicry here is going to add Frogman's willpower boosts to Akumo's own (Akumo's power mimicry working far better if he's facing an opponent who has a similar power/ability, as shown in his weakest form, the human form, where he could copy other master martial arts styles. Evolution of Will is advanced to the point that he can copy basically anything anyway, and especially so something so similar to his own willpower ability). In addition to all of the above, I simply don't see Akumo dying very often if at all in the 2 second time-frame. Clairvoyance kicks in instantly, letting Akumo know/guess he dies (neither matters since Akumo has time either way). Rapid Evolution kicks in even before that since Frogman is an equal and starting off with a monstrous move, giving Akumo a multiplier in everything (as described above) which would further increase the chances of him surviving. Master Twister receiving massive LS boost from either Future Frogmen or Frogman's clones destroys the original rewind plan, as Frogman would be unable to advance enough distance to use the dragon heads and Chainsaw Saber.

Once Akumo also realizes that TP Deferoid stopped his attack damage (the instant Frogman starts it), he would convert the rest of his arms into doing the Master Twister which would then add yet more multipliers to his LS atop of the completely massive mimicry boost. Even without the mimicry boost, as I said before, his lifting strength will blast off, even with just the four initial arms. 20+ arms is going to result in dozens of times multiplied LS instantly as each arm contains boosts of their own. To add onto this, Akumo also has Gravity Manipulation, another facet of his Esper Abilities. It initially starts at 1000 times Earth's gravity, but Rapid Evolution fighting against Frogman's resistance and willpower will make it way higher very fast. Frogman also has no resistance to gravity manip on profile. It should also apply the same as Akumo's telekinesis, as Akumo is only using it to hold him down, not to damage. It doesn't count as an effect either, so TP Deferoid is off the table when it comes to the gravity. At best, Frogman can prevent a gravity hold via LS or willpower, but the act of Akumo holding him via gravity can't be nulled.

Also, guessing or knowing if he'd die or not isn't really the kind of fight ender that it may look like on first glance. There is a clear different between knowing or guessing, yes, but this is about whether or not Akumo would die. Even if there is a tiny, minuscule chance of someone dying in real life, they would do everything in their power to avoid this scenario (at least I would, and this extends to my characters, but especially Akumo who has already cheated death countless times). Akumo has no reason to play with death here. All guessing vs knowing really determines is how much Rapid Evolution takes effect, and either way, it's going to be at least overwhelming due to how amazing it is by default. Akumo wouldn't take a chance even if he could only foresee a 0.001% chance of dying. For him, even that is too much. So he would be pushing just as hard as Frogman, if not harder during this sequence regardless of whether he guesses or outright knows the dragon saber outcome.

You also said yourself that Akumo 'starts to feel the rotations distorting the very space around them', something he has never experienced before. He wouldn't take that very lightly at all. In fact, that's just something more which adds onto Rapid Evolution even quicker.

After further thinking, 0.02 milliseconds reaction time is unchanged by 2 second rewind (this is Akumo's default reaction time, and is the low end of how fast he'd react due to nthe difference between guessing or knowing being 0.0001), which means that Akumo still has enough time to react in case Frogman does rewind like before. Clairvoyance is guaranteed to let Akumo know that it's coming, plus (I already said this many times before), he doesn't need to actually perceive it to react to it. If we assume Frogman faces no resistance from Akumo like in the faulty first scenario, Akumo still has a few factors which could let him survive. His willpower, on its own, is enough for Akumo to resist a fatal attack (and even before, being able to survive tens of thousands of degrees Celsius blasts from Father Monster via willpower even back when he was just a human, Evolution of Will being FAR beyond this kind of feat). Frogman's willpower likely also kicks in, but I already mentioned what would happen with Akumo then (Power Mimicry + Rapid Evolution instant combo giving Akumo the same willpower boosts as Frogman, then advancing them beyond). This, combined with clairvoyance (seeing exactly what Frogman would do, even if blurry, is still more than enough for him), instinctive action (his body preforming best optimal moves and abilities no matter what, even without clairvoyance), power mimicry (low odds of being able to copy and then reverse the 2-second rewind with an improved version of his own, but also possibly generating red sabers from his remaining pieces to counter with his own dragon heads. What's actually most likely to happen would just be Akumo copying willpower boosts), and Akumo's general senses also teaming with Power Mimicry (sensing all of the Frogman clones defense tactics and then adding smaller versions to his own via extreme Rapid Evolution since he's dying, potentially making an impenetrable force around himself), at the minimum would give him just enough of a slither to survive the original dragon blade assault, with even the tiniest part of him shooting up in resistance (to the decay burning effect which actually greatly helps that singular piece as all of the Rapid Evolution focuses solely on that while all other parts die as before), self-biological manipulation being capable of replacing parts hurt by deconstruction barely quick enough to survive, and regeneration (greatly surpassing low-High if Akumo can force evolve enough) to recover afterwards (while using Esper power to escape extremely far distance in 0.00001 seconds, likely less as evolution forces his speed alongside everything else). Even if Frogman sees that coming (precog) and attempts to eat the piece with a Dragon head, Akumo's clairvoyance would've already shown it to him and he'd react in a way that leads to survival (perfect dodging, Esper barriers stacked up forcing dragon heads to take more time, quick bilogical manipulation and many methods of forced rapid evolution, etc). Frogman doesn't have precog feats or explanations on profile outside of just being able to make an organ which shows possibilities of Akumos power, so it looks like Akumo's clairvoyance greatly surpasses the precog here just when it comes to viewing the immediate futures, giving him the ability to live even without instinct if necessary. Every factor coming together and combining actually makes Frogman's original wincon less and less likely, although it would still work fine as a wincon since Akumo doing all of this would be at least pretty difficult, even for him, and needing to use forced evolution instantly too. I'd give it about a 60/40 chance of going for Frogman, not nearly as damning as it was on first glance, because Akumo doing all of this perfectly is pretty low odds, especially against the proficiency of Stage 4. But again, because of all the above stuff, akumo would prevent this from occurring altogether.

Then again, Akumo is also capapble of absorbing energy, inclduing very fiery kinds of energy, which is what the red laser seems to be like. Considering that the Red Saber seems at least somewhat energy based, I think that can help Akumo out too, especially with Rapid Evolution improving that aspect of him.

Everything being said, I wanna come back to this. So, this scenario is hardly possible anymore. Clairvoyance will show Akumo exactly what would happen, and instictive action leads Akumo to doing the most optimal movements in every given situation. Therefore, seeing as every other scenario has Frogman counters, Akumo is going to combine everything from before into one thing at the start of the match. As this is Frogman's greatest chance at winning (as noted by you, Frogman can see what Akumo is capable of using a precog organ, describing it as why he's using this attack first), I don't see him changing up his moves despite everything listed above this in Akumo's favor. Even using all 400 clones doesn't really change anything due to power mimicry. Pretty much anything else he does just makes it a bit easier for Akumo and allows him to copy Red Sabers too. Any different strategy involving clones is also copied and evolved by Akumo, and he has superior fighting abilities in addition to being able to copy red sabers.

Akumo and his clones will hold Frogman off using a massive combined effort of everything listed before. Due to telekinesis, gravity, and rapid evolution + power mimicry allowing Akumo to copy all of Frogman's boosts AND hold off his movement from reaching his location (renders rewind strat nearly useless), PLUS copying Dragon Saber instantly via forced rapid evolution on his back arms, I don't see Frogman finding very many openings to win this. Forced Rapid Evolution even allows for Akumo to likely survive the original Frogman wincon, and furthermore Forced Rapid Evolution focused on regen can help against WISH Nuke Cast, and Akumo using power mimicry would be able to use his own BFR Bomb to send himself back to the battlefield if Frogman landed it.

I could see Frogman using rewind after Akumo holds him away via Esper power to reset his clone count/red sabers/other stats and abilities gained through evolution and then attempt an all out attack with the clones Frogman was previously using, but Akumo has many ways to dodge/defend and it would only take a couple seconds to completely copy Red Sabers all over again, and as you said before, this attack is gonna drain huge amounts of Frogman stamina anyway, even if he can gain it back via rewind. After that, he'd create many new arms across his body which would all become Red Saber handles and then become constantly evolving red sabers, essentially turning Akumo into a unstoppable force. Akumo would be able to just copy the clone count again too after a couple moments just by being able to see what happened prior to the rewind using Clairvoyance (although he can;t copy what he sees happening in clairvoyance, using those 'memories' equals rapid evolution working much quicker even without Akumo needing to force it). Each clone Akumo would then use after would also all have a body full of Red Sabers. Each time Frogman would return from Core BFR, it would be way worse for him than the previous time. Seeing it so much would also let Akumo be able to self BFR his own heart/"core" if Frogman somehow landed a killing move. The way I've laid everything out, I only see Frogman winning in a pretty limited number of scenarios since akumo largely has the ability to hold off his key plans/abilities/best odds of winning pretty handily.

Akumo turns the fight around FRA

(Also wiki's largest reply or what? 🙈)
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I am so glad you didn't pull out this Massive Response during our thread 🫣
 
Froggytron said:
It was like reading a seminar work 🗿 Vene truly wanted that win against so far strongest FU unit described on the FC/OC wiki
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Yes I did, but I’ll settle for the incon, it’s incredible on its own that stage 4 can’t outright kill Akumo despite how fearsome and powerful he is, seeing as I had low confidence entering this thing
 
VeneficaAuthor said:
Yes I did, but I’ll settle for the incon, it’s incredible on its own that stage 4 can’t outright kill Akumo despite how fearsome and powerful he is, seeing as I had low confidence entering this thing
Click to expand...
If Akumo hasn't enabled chea-

I mean an ability to look at himself in the future being massacred, taking anything personally enough to boost and boost and boost, yeah, it would end as Red Saber Stage 4 planned, in a true FU gangnam style
 
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