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Final Fantasy 16 discussion thread

Maybe? For stuff like the interdimensional rift and the weird white space you fight Typhon in (As well as Ultima phase 1) they were explicitly created by Ultima and he visibly warps them so that lends some credit to what he does just before the Ifrit Risen vs Ultima Risen fight, but on the other hand those two spaces are also kinda mental based, the latter more clearly so but the interdimensioal rift is meant to represent Ultimas mind but it's also a real place outside of space and time. It's weird. High 6-A is the bare minimum because funny burn the world Zettaflare from Bahamut, maybe 5-B if you take all the stuff about Clive being powerful enough to channel the spell to create a new planet (Although it's questionable if he truly does, Clive himself seems to think Ultima was wrong in him being ready to cast the spell). 4-A is a pretty big maybe.
 
Also trying to nail down how the Eikons scale to each other is a kinda a pain. There's some easy stuff like none of the other Eikons besides Ifrit Risen scale to amped up Bahamut, Shiva and Garuda are unfortunately the weakest, Titan Lost is more than likely stronger than any unamped Eikon.

Base Bahamut and Odin are pretty equal, they're known to be rivals and their superiority to the other Eikons seems pretty clear cut, former held the edge over Ifrit and Pheonix individually and held his own against them at the same time and the latter was blatantly superior to Pheonix in their little skirmish. Titan seems pretty close to them, Clive/Ifrit doesn't seem that much stronger when he fights Bahamut then he was fighting Titan, and Hugo believed he'd fight a even dual with Bahamut as well. Pheonix is relative to Ifrit and base Bahamut (But of the 3 he's more than likely the weakest). Ramuh is weird, he one shot Ifrit but that was before Clive really got a handle on how to control it and it was before the 5 year timeskip. Shiva could fend off Titan but again that was before the 5 year timeskip so Titan then could be weaker than he is post timeskip (We know Eikons get stronger since Pheonix is pretty relative with Clive/Ifrit who has gotten several boosts since his fight with Pheonix), and post timeskip Shiva doesn't really do much that's too impressive compared to other Eikons. Garuda fights but loses to early game Ifrit.

Of course if we don't treat the boosts Ifrit gets as that significant and/or treat Titan as being the same strength both pre and post timeskip then Shiva and Garuda would downscale from the stronger Eikons (Best feat for them is Odins sea splitting attack I'm pretty sure which at least will get pretty high into tier 7, could see it getting to tier 6), but if not then it's Low 7-B for them due to that Tornado. Rahmu would get an "at least" for one shotting Ifrit at that point in the game.
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
I suspect Clive will likely be victim to "hype power" (similar to Asura from Asura's Wrath) when he inevitably gets a profile here, since feat/lorewise he's actually one of the weaker numbered FF protags (currently) yet due the impressive spectacle of Eikon battles and ofc it wouldn't be FF game without the final boss being a deity and/or a god complex, I can definitely see casuals assuming he's one of the strongest FF protags but then come here and get massive power scaling whiplash when his ranked below so many characters (Gilgamesh scaling do be the gift that keeps on giving).

Tho let's be honest, assuming they give FFXVI surprise DLC having both DMC and FFXIV devs working on the game means Clive would defo get major buffs from it (DLC lore usually goes crazy) plus he'll get a 2-A key when he inevitably comes to Dissida but yeah just something that came to mind, it's the classic feats Vs statements debate.
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Sounds about right. The same thing happened with Noctis and that was the case for years till Strangers of Paradise came along.
 
The only solid 4-As for 16 should be Final battle Clive and Ultima imo given only Clive could keep up with and overpower Ultima after he took Joshua's power. And maybe Raging Bahamut given he could contend with Ifrit Risen. The Eikonic Bros (Dion, Pre Final Battle Clive, and Joshua) and Barnabas can have possibly 4-A. While the rest of the eikons high 6-A given that the aforementioned 4 are blatantly stronger.
 
HST_Master said:
While the rest of the eikons high 6-A given that the aforementioned 4 are blatantly stronger.
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Also high 6-A seems very generous for just all of the eikons but high 7-A to maybe 6-B sure it just depends on how far titan lost goes when I calc it.
 
Dalesean027 said:
Also high 6-A seems very generous for just all of the eikons but high 7-A to maybe 6-B sure it just depends on how far titan lost goes when I calc it.
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well of course not all eikon shiva, garuda, and Titan are definitely weaker than the others. the multi-continental is from Bahamut burning the world statement and only those scaling to the feat would be 6-A

base clive scale to base garuda which is low 7-B, and amp up garuda would scale to base ifrit.
Shiva would scale to base Titan thanks to their little fight in the early game.
after 5 years of time skip Ifrit would scale to amp up mountain size Titan. high 7-A
Ifrit risen then scaled to the Bahamut burning the world statement which would mean the entire twin continent of Valisthea high 6-A
Ultima and endgame clive should be massively stronger than the amp up Bahamut to an unknow degree. ultima have a possible pocket dimension feat with star in the background which possibly mean he 4-A but we are not sure about that.
 
Npc170 said:
well of course not all eikon shiva, garuda, and Titan are definitely weaker than the others. the multi-continental is from Bahamut burning the world statement and only those scaling to the feat would be 6-A

base clive scale to base garuda which is low 7-B, and amp up garuda would scale to base ifrit.
Shiva would scale to base Titan thanks to their little fight in the early game.
after 5 years of time skip Ifrit would scale to amp up mountain size Titan. high 7-A
Ifrit risen then scaled to the Bahamut burning the world statement which would mean the entire twin continent of Valisthea high 6-A
Ultima and endgame clive should be massively stronger than the amp up Bahamut to an unknow degree. ultima have a possible pocket dimension feat with star in the background which possibly mean he 4-A but we are not sure about that.
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Yeah nah the ifrit risen and bahamut shit ik is high 6-A not questioning that at all it was high 6-A for all eikons thing that's a no for me but yeah once I'm at a point I can I'll do all my calcs for the shit
 
Dalesean027 said:
Yeah nah the ifrit risen and bahamut shit ik is high 6-A not questioning that at all it was high 6-A for all eikons thing that's a no for me but yeah once I'm at a point I can I'll do all my calcs for the shit
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thank you.

what I meant to say is currently Eikon is currently split into three brackets.

low 7-B: Garuda, Shiva, Titan, pre-time skip Ifrit, young Phoenix

7-A: Amp titan, post time skip Ifrit, post time skip Phoenix, base Bahamut and Odin

high 6-A: Amp bahamut and Ifrit risen

edit now that I think about it ifrit and phoenix did fight and they are comparable when they are young so two key for Phonenix too
 
Npc170 said:
7-A: Amp titan, post time skip Ifrit, phoenix, base Bahamut and Odin
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Imma be real all of Titan lost shit may in fact be 6-C up to High 6-C but we'll see

Also pheonix would need a pre-timeskip key as well then since he got jobbed by ifrit the rest seems fine
 
did Jill and shiva get stronger post time skip too I don't remember
 
Jill and Shiva don't really have good showings post timeskip, Shiva held her own pretty well against that magma demon despite the elemental disadvantage, and said demon could put up a fight against semi primed Clive. Then Shiva gets dunked on by Barnabas who didn't even need to semi prime (Granted dura neg is like his main thing), but overall her best showing makes her about equal to semi primed Clive.
 
Dalesean027 said:
Also high 6-A seems very generous for just all of the eikons but high 7-A to maybe 6-B sure it just depends on how far titan lost goes when I calc it.
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I meant moreso downscaling than directly scaling. And mainly for Eikons from the Post Timeskip Era, not pre timeskip. So the likes of Garuda and Ramuh wouldn't scale

Also statement saying Ultima created the rift

 
Also Joshua's burn the world statement applies to more than just the twins given that we know Barnabas' people fled to the outer continents due to religious prosecution

Still high 6-A but it'd be a 1 Exaton feat
 
HST_Master said:
I meant moreso downscaling than directly scaling. And mainly for Eikons from the Post Timeskip Era, not pre timeskip. So the likes of Garuda and Ramuh wouldn't scale
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Yeah but still like it'd be moreso like this
Npc170 said:
low 7-B: Garuda, Shiva, Titan, pre-time skip Ifrit, young Phoenix

7-A: Amp titan, post time skip Ifrit, post time skip Phoenix, base Bahamut and Odin

high 6-A: Amp bahamut and Ifrit risen
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Cause base bahamut was definitely not high 6-A so they'd still have no reason to downscale high 6-A even for their normal post timeskip base selves. That is unless I'm missing something
 
Yeah Bahamut was amped by the crystal and Ifrit and Pheonix had merged into Ifrit Risen, and afaik we don't have multipliers or anything like that so we can't really downscale anyone from them. Those two are the only High 6-As and then endgame Clive and Ultima upscale from that if we can't nail down anything higher for them.

There's also the case of speed, can see amped Bahamut and Ifrit Risen flying into orbit getting really good results, same with Pheonix and base Bahamut flying to cloud level during their fight. Ifrit Risen has a move called lightspeed if we wanna take that seriously (Name by itself don't mean much, but depending on how fast we nail his normal speed / amped Bahamuts speed we can maybe get light speed outta of it given how much faster he becomes during that move). Lifting Strength should also be high, Titan / Titan Lost gets insane with that.
 
Dust_Collector said:
There's also the case of speed, can see amped Bahamut and Ifrit Risen flying into orbit getting really good results, same with Pheonix and base Bahamut flying to cloud level during their fight. Ifrit Risen has a move called lightspeed if we wanna take that seriously (Name by itself don't mean much, but depending on how fast we nail his normal speed / amped Bahamuts speed we can maybe get light speed outta of it given how much faster he becomes during that move). Lifting Strength should also be high, Titan / Titan Lost gets insane with that.
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I mean considering you also get light based attacks while fighting the literal light guy at that point I'd be inclined to agree for now until we build up better evidence also titan lost has some insane speed feats and if we count Cids lightning as real then early game would easly be MHS or MHS+


All in due time tho
 
Base Titan pushing away the collapsing halves of his Titan Lost body during phase 3 will for sure get some high results, Titan would honestly be the most chad eikon if he wasn't attached to a raving simp like Hugo.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Base Titan pushing away the collapsing halves of his Titan Lost body during phase 3 will for sure get some high results, Titan would honestly be the most chad eikon if he wasn't attached to a raving simp like Hugo.
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Yeah the one will just be sorta weird to calc considering you're falling and all but man you're right
 
I forgot Ifrit actually frags the rock from stones throw soo
539,344m^3 * 8J/cc = 4314752000000 Joules or 1.03125 Kilotons of TNT

Scratch that there's barely any debris left and what little debris there is is pretty small compared to the previous size so lets just do V.frag combined with pulverization

539,344m^3 * (1-0.7) = 161803.2m^3

377540.8m^3 * 214J/cc = 80,793,731,200,000 joules

161803.2m^3 * 69J/cc = 11,164,420,800,000 joules


80,793,731,200,000 + 11,164,420,800,000 = 9.1958152e+13 joules or 21.978525812619502 Kilotons of TNT
 
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Redid the ifrit hellfire feat and now its 90 gigatons so like man **** I suppose its consistent since Base Titan would and Ifrit would already be Island+ due to Base ifrit fighting Titan lost and this would backscale to making Shiva and Garuda Island level+ as well since they downscale them but that also means Clive would also regularly be Island+ if we scale him to garuda so shit


Clive could look something like this "Island level+ (fought garuda etc.), Large Island level with Ifrit"

I'd imagine that 90+ gigatons is close enough for something treated as a major power increase to just upscale to baseline High 6-C

Alternatively we could do this:
"Island level+ (fought garuda etc.), Large Island level with Priming, higher with Ifrit"
 
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Also how we all feeling about Ultimas potential 4-A rating? We know he can create and warp pocket dimensions as shown by the interdimensional rift so personally I don't think it's too far fetched to think that he's multi-solar system level for the whacky shit he pulled out as Ultima Risen.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Also how we all feeling about Ultimas potential 4-A rating? We know he can create and warp pocket dimensions as shown by the interdimensional rift so personally I don't think it's too far fetched to think that he's multi-solar system level for the whacky shit he pulled out as Ultima Risen.
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I fully think its valid and am in full support of it
 
God Dion has so many good quotes I want to use on his page. Dunno if I wanna use one of his talks with Terence or his confrontation with his father.
 
Dust_Collector said:
God Dion has so many good quotes I want to use on his page. Dunno if I wanna use one of his talks with Terence or his confrontation with his father.
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I mean between being a Dragoon, a prince (who actually does his fricking job), the dominant of Bahamut himself and actually has narrative agency while still being a character that just wants to help others (I'm not surprised he's becoming a fan favourite), good luck narring down those quotes.

Also it should go without saying but I'm assuming we aren't cross-scaling FFXVI Eikons to the summons from previous games? (Bahamut from XV being one of the exceptions since he is actually the same Bahamut from FFI which gives him all the BS magic hax in classic era titles thanks to Stranger of Paradise connecting FFI, FFII, FFV, FFXV and Dissidia all together).
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
I mean between being a Dragoon, a prince (who actually does his fricking job), the dominant of Bahamut himself and actually has narrative agency while still being a character that just wants to help others (I'm not surprised he's becoming a fan favourite), good luck narring down those quotes.
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I've spent way more time then I'd like to admit mulling it over and I've got it down to 3 quotes now, dude is such a good character I don't think I've ever struggled to pick quotes for a profile before lmao.

The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
Also it should go without saying but I'm assuming we aren't cross-scaling FFXVI Eikons to the summons from previous games? (Bahamut from XV being one of the exceptions since he is actually the same Bahamut from FFI which gives him all the BS magic hax in classic era titles thanks to Stranger of Paradise connecting FFI, FFII, FFV, FFXV and Dissidia all together).
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Yeah unless the upcoming artbook and/or ultimania book that comes out next year reveals that the dominants actually transform into the same summons from other titles we ain't cross-scaling him or anyone else to the rest of the series.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Yeah unless the upcoming artbook and/or ultimania book that comes out next year reveals that the dominants actually transform into the same summons from other titles we ain't cross-scaling him or anyone else to the rest of the series.
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Hope this never happens tbh I'd like this one to be disconnected
 
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