Fight for the Penultimate 9-B: Cain vs. John Taylor [0-0-0]

[Warren_Valion]

The title says it all.

Cain: 0

John Talyor: 0

Inconclusive: 0

Speed equalized

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

John opens his third eye, sees the ******* ridiculous curse surrounding Cain and what it will do to him if he tries anything lethal, and promptly BFRs him somewhere nonlethal.

End.

 

[Schnee_One]

John Taylor for Kings reasons

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

King for John Taylor's reasons

 

[JooCipher]

John Taylor for King's reasons

 

[Warren_Valion]

Doesn't Cain have Dimensional Travel?

He is able to travel to and from the Dreaming, right? And correct me if I am wrong, isn't the Dreaming a High 1-B realm? So shouldn't he bypass John's BFR?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

If he does come back a first time, John could get away with just teleporting some cuffs and shackles onto him and then sending him away again. He's definitely not stupid enough to let a man with such a powerful and dangerous curse anywhere near him, and he's shown many times that he's willing to incap someone if he can't outright kill them.

He also has the option of sending Cain backwards or forwards in time, which the latter won't be coming back from.

 

[Warren_Valion]

If he does come back a first time, John could get away with just teleporting some cuffs and shackles onto him and then sending him away again. He's definitely not stupid enough to let a man with such a powerful and dangerous curse anywhere near him, and he's shown many times that he's willing to incap someone if he can't outright kill them.
He also has the option of sending Cain backwards or forwards in time, which the latter won't be coming back from.

Would Cain's curse being 1-A in nature mean it is beyond John's understanding?

And why would cuffs and shackles do anything to Cain? Are they special cuffs of some kind?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

John would be able to see that trying to just teleport Cains organs away is a really ******* bad idea, or something similar

anyways, John FRA

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Would Cain's curse being 1-A in nature mean it is beyond John's understanding?
And why would cuffs and shackles do anything to Cain? Are they special cuffs of some kind?

Not particularly? The curse's function is relatively simple; it's just absurdly potent thanks to being backed by a 1-A or two.
Cain's been bound by rope in canon.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Would Cain's curse being 1-A in nature mean it is beyond John's understanding?
And why would cuffs and shackles do anything to Cain? Are they special cuffs of some kind?

Not particularly? The curse's function is relatively simple; it's just absurdly potent thanks to being backed by a 1-A or two.
Cain's been bound by rope in canon.

I am not saying that the curse is complicated or something, I am saying that I think the power source is beyond John's vision and that it is likely that John wouldn't be able to "see" The Presence.


And I am pretty sure he let himself be bound by the rope. Cain seems like the kind of guy to not give a shit, it's not like they would kill him or anything. But in a vs battle, I am pretty sure that his mentality would be different.

He is 9-B. Regular cuffs or just rope shouldn't do anything if he doesn't want it to. He could just break them.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

[stuff]

The power source being beyond John's vision wouldn't prevent John from seeing the curse itself, nor would it stop him from seeing what would happen if he were to harm Cain. Particularly because the curse of Cain's Mark is mutually exclusive from the Presence, not something the Presence actively enforces with his own abilities.

He most certainly did not let them do anything. The entire time he was in Hell, he was scared shitless of what would happen to him, and this carried on (and actually got worse) after he was freed from his bonds and Lucifer was dragging him into the sky by his hair.

Being 9-B doesn't change the fact that he hasn't shown the lifting strength required to do that. And even then, John could just find something stronger to bind him with. There's no shortage of such things in either of their respective settings, and all John has to do is find something with his eye, make a connection and transport it to their location.

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Being 9-B doesn't change the fact that he hasn't shown the lifting strength required to do that

If Mami matches have taught me anything, it's that lifting strength doesn't get you out of bindings.

 

[Schnee_One]

TBF Mami's ribbons are much stronger then her opponents

John can just do the same

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Unless there are extenuating circumstances for Mami, that claim is asinine.

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

TBF Mami's ribbons are much stronger then her opponents

But they're not. I'm pretty sure a majority of her wins have superior lifting strength compared to her.

 

[Schnee_One]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1473091?useskin=oasis

This is where it's elaborated on

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Oh, would you look at that, I was even on that thread.

 

[Warren_Valion]

The power source being beyond John's vision wouldn't prevent John from seeing the curse itself, nor would it stop him from seeing what would happen if he were to harm Cai. Particularly because the curse of Cain's Mark is mutually exclusive from the Presence, not something the Presence actively enforces with his own abilities.

He most certainly did not let them do anything. The entire time he was in Hell, he was scared shitless of what would happen to him, and this carried on (and actually got worse) after he was freed from his bonds and Lucifer was dragging him into the sky by his hair.

Being 9-B doesn't change the fact that he hasn't shown the lifting strength required to do that. And even then, John could just find something stronger to bind him with. There's no shortage of such things in either of their respective settings, and all John has to do is find something with his eye, make a connection and transport it to their location.

Oh okay, that's fair.

I don't really think he was scared of anyone but Lucifer, but whatever. And wouldn't holding somebody up by their hair count as harming them? Did Lucifer bypass the curse or something?

Not saying that John can't find something stronger to bind Cain, but I am pretty sure that if he's 9-B, then he should be able to break out of handcuffs, but whatever.


Does Cain even have a win condition?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

[more stuff]

I can't remember the exact stipulation of what constitutes "harming" Cain, or whether or not Lucifer was bypassing it somehow. Most I can tell you is that, later on, Cain said Lucifer just didn't care about his Mark. (Which could mean anything in this context)

This one's a moot point anyway, so I'll drop it for now.

Other than trying to hit John in the face really hard, no. Cain doesn't actually have any powers; he's just a guy who's been cursed not to die by any means. And even then, John has a calc putting him over 11x baseline (Cain doesn't have a calc at all), and can use his gift to just see where Cain is going to swing next, and the exact places for him to move in order to avoid his attacks.

 

[Schnee_One]

Good debate but if that's the case it's a stomp

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Sadly, yeah. You would be right.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Yeah, John's precog means that he won't attack Cain physically, and that Cain won't be able to land an attack on him.

Seems stompish to me.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Welp, RIP matchup. Was fun while it lasted.