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FFVII Supernova feat possible outlier?

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@Matthew

Maybe so, or perhaps they simply do not want to break their storylines completely. I mean, it is hard to overlook that Bhunivelze, the Cloud of Darkness, Ultimecia, etcetera, can create or destroy universes.
 
Gargoyle One said:
I can't use consistency as logic? Alright, whatever.
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Not if you have already ignored consistency. You cannot ignore consistency in one instance, then try to be consistent the next. Either you're consistent and ALWAYS consistent. Or you're not.

And I've actually been the one pushing for consistency. This site is meant to be objective, and yet the rules used for judging feats seems completely arbitrary. We will apply rulings to one feat, yet completely ignore those exact same rulings for another.
 
Just because one high end feat is not an outlier =/= another higher end feats is also not an outlier.

From what I've gathered, Supernova is in actuality, not that special of an attack for Sephiroth overall.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Just because one high end feat is not an outlier =/= another higher end feats is also not an outlier.
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It does if you the reasoning for declaring feat 1 an outlier could equally be applied to feat 2.

KOTR is a feat well beyond the Power Level established by other characters in the series and makes no sense in terms of narrative consistency. It is an outlier.

Supernova. is a feat well beyond the Power Level established by other characters in the series and makes no sense in terms of narrative consistency. It is a valid feat.

You cannot tell me you see no issue with that.
 
No, we simply acknowledge that the writers themselves recurrently do not realise how powerful their characters are in relation to the plot. This is common within fiction.

However, we also have to try to work out an internally consistent power scale for the characters, and as such it would make no sense for Sephiroth's strongest attack to be weaker than that of the KOTR, or for Piccolo Daimau's strongest attack to be weaker than that of Kame-Sennin.

We very much realise that fiction is extremely inconsistent, but still have to try to work out statistics that are as internally consistent as possible. That is all.

I would appreciate if you permanently drop this subject, as I have already worked for 9 hours taking care of this site today, and do not have the time and energy to argue with you any further.
 
Lunacorva said:
It does if you the reasoning for declaring feat 1 an outlier could equally be applied to feat 2.

KOTR is a feat well beyond the Power Level established by other characters in the series and makes no sense in terms of narrative consistency. It is an outlier.

Supernova. is a feat well beyond the Power Level established by other characters in the series and makes no sense in terms of narrative consistency. It is a valid feat.

You cannot tell me you see no issue with that.
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Except I am pretty sure there is a feat that supports Supernova. Knights of the Round was it?

Yet, it is considered a common move for Sephiroth am I correct. Even his base form uses it. Meaning, Supernova is an attack within their power range. They can't just always have solar system busting attacks threatening the characters all the time. That's unrealistic. That's also why we have the difference between Destructive Capabilities and Attack Potency.
 
I'd be happy to drop it, but none of this makes any sense, you're contradicting yourself mutliple times over, and I'm worried this site is spreading misinformation.
 
Lunacorva said:
I'd be happy to drop it, but none of this makes any sense, you're contradicting yourself mutliple times over, and I'm worried this site is spreading misinformation.
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Listen. We aren't the end all be all for Vs Debates okay? We never once established ourself to be. We fix what we can and evaluate everything differently. We aren't spreading misinformation. We are spreading what we think stats should be based on feats we analyzed. Is it perfect? No. Could we be wrong? Yes.

The simple fact we have here is Supernova is not an outlier due to how it is later treated in the franchise. If anything Knights of the Round in actuality supports Supernova as it shows that there are indeed higher feats in the series, and yet, Supernova is portrayed as more consistent to those levels based upon how Sephy actually performs it. All the times I have seen it, Supernova seemed to be pretty casual.
 
@Lunacorva

No, I am saying that we realise that most fiction does not make any sense in terms of that any attacks from, for example, Low 2-C characters, do not cause cosmic destruction, rather than blow up buildings, but that is to be expected.

However, if characters within a series display blatant feats that are not explicitly contradicted by those of other characters (such as with Kame-Sennin or the Knights of the Round), or repeatedly by themselves at later points (such as for Superman), we can use them without considering them as outliers. That is all.

As for the "spreading misinformation" part... Let's try to be realistic here. I take the overall quality of this wiki very seriously, and have probably spent around 11000 hours working to improve upon it over the years, but again, we have over 13500 pages. Ensuring absolute consistency between them and complete perfection in accuracy are impossible tasks. We are simply doing our best to work out as reliable and internally consistent scaling as possible.
 
@Dragonmasterxyz

If we're not the be all and end all, then what's the point?

But let me see if I understand the rules of the site:

1) The strongest feat in the franchise will be considered valid. Regardless of the gap in power between it and the second or third strongest, unless:

A) the feat is used in a series with multiple writers.

or

B) the feat is used despite a canonically stronger character not able to perform that same feat.

Correct?
 
1. Nope, as long as the gap isn't utterly obscene it's accepted, such as High 6A to 4A DMC or High 4C to 3A LoZ

That simple.
 
Also, do not spam threads by quoting long posts.
 
"If we're not the be all and end all, then what's the point?"

Because we have common sense. Logically, we try to have the most accurate ratings. However, we have common sense to know that our ratings aren't the end all be all and are subject to change. The same can be said for every vs community (whether they want to admit it or not). Every vs debater has their own way of debating. Some are more strict, some are more lenient. It depends on the person. And on a site with as many viewers and members as us, we are going to get countless different people with countless different methods to vs debating. The simple fact is that this is mostly a fun past time for everyone.
 
I agree with Dragonmasterxyz. There are too many different members with different standards in different content revision threads, to be able to ensure absolute consistency between verses. All that the staff can attempt to do is bring some order to the chaos.
 
Antvasima said:
I thought that they were just a weak early game summon? Oh well, it is probably better if The Everlasting, and others more familiar with the game take over here.
Click to expand...
Actually its the opposite, its like the most end-game summon.
 
This topic should be banned.. I think this is the second or third time I saw this since I started coming to this wiki regularly.
 
Part of it is thanks to Sephiroth vs Vergil being very recent. And the misconceptions of how Supernova works.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Part of it is thanks to Sephiroth vs Vergil being very recent. And the misconceptions of how Supernova works.
Click to expand...
Yeah, sounds about right. Like DB, but for some reason people like to accept their word as the end all, be all of vs debates. /coughs Dante vs Bayonetta
 
Js250476 said:
Or cause this thing with FF7 has been going on for years so this gives people another excuse to complain about it
Click to expand...
Could be this too. I know people who are opponents of the entire franchise just because of 7. That is like me hating LoZ because of Ocarina imo.
 
I think that Death Battle popularised that Sephiroth's feat was an outlier, but I have been told that they wouldn't give Thor use of his god-blast or highest feats in his battle with Wonder Woman either, whereas they did show this courtecy to her. They seem to play favourites, especially by underrating Goku and exaggerating Superman.

I mean, we make plenty of mistakes, but they are not deliberate.

Nevertheless, let's stop this derailment of the thread here.

In any case, somebody should probably ask The Everlasting to comment here.

We may also need a new rule, as mentioned above.
 
@Ant Repp already explained what needed to be said. Anything else is just redundant (like this thread as a whole).
 
Okay. I just wonder if we should first add a new rule, in order to avoid more of these threads in the future.
 
Also DB was more questioning if Sephy was there rather then the supernova being an outlier plus I feel we should try not to bring them up to often it just never does any good from what I've seen
 
"Please avoid the creation of a Content Revision Thread questioning Sephiroth's Supernova legitimacy, it has been discussed several times and accepted as valid. This does not include any future revision after the FF7 remake."

How about something like this?
 
Also I wouldn't blame DB for Supernova Discussion this has been going on for years long before the DB was ever made
 
So, is my regulation text fine to add?
 
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