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Supernova
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...tasy_7:_Supernova_Comet_Speed#articleComments
Miguel79’s calc for Supernova was recently accepted, which puts the speed of the comet at 20.571 Trillions C.
The contention is whether or not it should scale in some fashion to sephiroth, to which I will attemp to prove it should.
To start off, I’d like to quote one of the site Final Fantasy experts, TartaChocolate:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:TartaChocholate/sandbox#Telekinesis_vs_Summoning
Tarta explains in detail how supernova is not related to the black materia/meteor, but i would like to focus on the part above that:
“As you can see, the International Version of the Supernova is initiated by calling forth a massive comet to crash into the Sun (with rather hefty collateral damage to the rest of the Solar System). For a long time it has been debated how this comet was drawn exactly. On one hand it was believed that Sephiroth was using Telekinesis, on the other that it was an act of summoning, presumably using the Black Materia to call forth a similar phenomenon to Meteor.
I think Telekinesis is actually the more viable explanation. Sephiroth has openly displayed his psychic abilities in the Final Fantasy canon several times, with Telekinesis being one of them: tried to crush and rip apart the party before the final battle, tore a building and made it fall on Cloud in Advent Children and, in the Remake, throws skyscrapers and their pieces at his enemies Empire Strikes Back style. On the other hand, Summoning is attributed to the Comet spell series and the party because none of them have a similar ability to Sephiroth in this regard and doesn't really have any evidence of actually being summoning, it's more of an assumption to explain the spell as to answer "if this Materia grants Telekinesis, why couldn't you use it on other objects or is simply limited to calling meteorites?", which doesn't really apply to Sephiroth, as explained above.”
I would also like to add something which I think further establishes telekinesis:
The equations used at the start of Sephiroth's Super Nova are equations used in Astrophysics. They are as follows:
unknown.png (549×331) (discordapp.com)
The first two equations calculate the sun's and planet's potential attractive forces. The third equation calculates the Earth's potential attractive forces and the fourth misstates that the asteroid is working on a two-dimensional level, as it is the equation for the area of a circle, all to direct the energy used to cause the supernova.
Furthermore
Ptolemy's diagram of the celestial spheres, also known as the classical planets, or the "Seven Heavens", is used in the Super Nova animation. Since there are seven, this can be seen as another allusion the game has to the number seven. Pluto is among the planets Super Nova destroys, as it was still considered a planet until eight years after the game's release. However, neither Pluto, Neptune, nor Uranus had been discovered when Ptolemy conceived of the celestial spheres.
Sephiroth also uses the same equation when using Supernova in dissidia.
Lastly guides further confirm he guides it.
スーパーノヴァ (インターナショナル版)
Sūpānovu~a (intānashonaru-ban)
Supernova (International version)
両手をかかげ、 セフィロスがその場から姿を消す。
ryōte o kakage, sefirosu ga sono ba kara sugata o kesu.
Holding both hands, Sephiroth disappears from the spot.
計背景の雲がこまかく割れ、破片が宇宙空間へと吸いこまれていく
Kei haikei no kumo ga komakaku ware, hahen ga uchū kūkan e to suikoma rete iku.
The clouds in the background are broken into pieces, and fragments are sucked into outer space.
太陽系の星々の位置を表した星図が映し出され………
Taiyōkei no shinshin no ichi o arawashita seizu ga utsushidasa re……….
A star map showing the positions of the stars in the solar system is projected ...
あまたの星々や赤い星雲をバックに、古代の数式が浮かぶ
Amata no shinshin ya akai seiun o bakku ni, kodai no sūshiki ga ukabu
Ancient formulas float in the background of the stars and the red nebula.
さらに4つの数式がひとつずつ現れては消えていく
Sarani 4tsu no sūshiki ga hitotsu zutsu arawarete wa kieteiku.
Four more formulas appear and disappear one by one.
太陽系へ矢印が向けられた図が描かれるとともに、 流星が出現
Taiyōkei e yajirushi ga muke rareta zu ga egaka reruto tomoni, ryūsei ga shutsugen.
A drawing with an arrow pointing to the solar system is drawn, and a meteor appears.
流星が宇宙空間を突き進むなか, さらに数式が浮かび上がる
Ryūsei ga uchū kūkan o tsukisusumu naka, sarani sūshiki ga ukabiagaru.
As the meteor rushes through outer space, mathematical formulas emerge.
流星は青白く輝きながら、 超高速で太陽系へ突入
Ryūsei wa aojiroku kagayakinagara, chō kōsoku de taiyōkei e totsunyū.
The meteor bursts into the solar system while shining pale.
スーパーノヴァ
Sūpānovu~a
Supernova
何かを呼び寄せるかうに両手を掲げるセフィロス。
Nanika o yobiyoseru ka uni ryōte o kakageru sefirosu.
Sephiroth raises his hands to call something.
流星が現れ、太陽系の星々をつぎつぎと破壊していく。
Ryūsei ga araware, taiyōkei no shinshin o tsugitsugi to hakai ***** iku.
A meteor appears, destroying the planets of the solar system one after another.
やがて流星は太陽に激突し、その衝撃で太陽は膨張を開始。
Yagate ryūsei wa taiyō ni gekitotsu shi, sono shōgeki de taiyō wa bōchō o kaishi.
Eventually, the meteor crashes into the sun, and the shock causes the sun to expand.
超新星爆発(スーパーノヴァ)が起こり、すさまじい衝撃波がすべてを飲みこむ。
Chōshinsei bakuhatsu (sūpānovu~a) ga okori, susamajī shōgekiha ga subete o nomikomu.
A supernova explosion (Super Nova) occurs, and a tremendous shock wave swallows everything.
With all of this in mind, I think it's safe to take it as Sephiroth using his Telekinesis to bring the comet to inititate the Supernova.
The second issue that is brought up, and the biggest one, is how nobody scales to the comet as nobody directly interacts with it. However, if we accept what is mentioned above, that Sephiroth does indeed use his Telekinesis to alter the orbit of a comet travelling through space and redirect it into the Solar System, then it could be said he actually does interact with it. He should be able to perceive the comet, locate it while its moving through outer space and catch it with his Telekinesis to change its trajectory to new target. While it's debatable how fast the Telekinesis itself would be for such distance as there are little details on it, Sephy's perceptions and reactions do interact with the Comet, and these were surpassed by the party in the final battle as they could work through his defenses, hurt him and even avoid some of his attacks. All in all, this means they do scale to the comet's speed even if nobody is seen interacting with it on-screen.
Furthermore he’s able to perceive it in motion while using tk, as he is calculating its path to initiate the supernova.
Sephiroth also uses telekinesis to propel himself forward in combat. (couldnt find a gif at this time).
Essentially, he can move the comet at 20.571 Trillions C, and can perceive it while moving, and can move himself and other objects with the same tk.
With this in mind, he should be given 20 trillion c for reactions and attack speed with tk.
Red XIII
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Migue79/Final_Fantasy_7:_2_More_Massively_FTL+_Calcs
DMUA agreed with the red xiii calc, which gets 65.9 Million c. I will explain the context for the feat.
リミットレベル 2
LIMIT LEVEL
上級技
スターダストレイ
低くかまえて魔力をためると、あたりはいつの間にか星空に。
レッドXIIIの遠吠えに応えるかのように、星くずが出現。
無数の星くずは雨のように降りそそぎ、モンスターにダメージを与える。
Limit level 2
LIMIT LEVEL
Advanced skill
Stardust Ray
If you hold it low and accumulate magical power, the area will suddenly become a starry sky.
Stardust appears as if to respond to the howl of Red XIII.
Countless stardust pours down like rain, damaging monsters.
Energy is absorbed from stars in the sky into a ball of flame on the planet, which is then fired at the enemy.
To quote dmua:
"Red XIII summoning the attack shouldn't be immensely slower than him just drawing power for it"
Red xiii is able to bring that energy to himself at that speed.
So same thing as for sephi, scale to reactions mainly.
Total:
20.571 Trillions C for Sephiroth, for reactions, movement with tk, and attack speed with tk.
65.9 Million C for Red XIII, for reactions
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...tasy_7:_Supernova_Comet_Speed#articleComments
Miguel79’s calc for Supernova was recently accepted, which puts the speed of the comet at 20.571 Trillions C.
The contention is whether or not it should scale in some fashion to sephiroth, to which I will attemp to prove it should.
To start off, I’d like to quote one of the site Final Fantasy experts, TartaChocolate:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:TartaChocholate/sandbox#Telekinesis_vs_Summoning
Tarta explains in detail how supernova is not related to the black materia/meteor, but i would like to focus on the part above that:
“As you can see, the International Version of the Supernova is initiated by calling forth a massive comet to crash into the Sun (with rather hefty collateral damage to the rest of the Solar System). For a long time it has been debated how this comet was drawn exactly. On one hand it was believed that Sephiroth was using Telekinesis, on the other that it was an act of summoning, presumably using the Black Materia to call forth a similar phenomenon to Meteor.
I think Telekinesis is actually the more viable explanation. Sephiroth has openly displayed his psychic abilities in the Final Fantasy canon several times, with Telekinesis being one of them: tried to crush and rip apart the party before the final battle, tore a building and made it fall on Cloud in Advent Children and, in the Remake, throws skyscrapers and their pieces at his enemies Empire Strikes Back style. On the other hand, Summoning is attributed to the Comet spell series and the party because none of them have a similar ability to Sephiroth in this regard and doesn't really have any evidence of actually being summoning, it's more of an assumption to explain the spell as to answer "if this Materia grants Telekinesis, why couldn't you use it on other objects or is simply limited to calling meteorites?", which doesn't really apply to Sephiroth, as explained above.”
I would also like to add something which I think further establishes telekinesis:
The equations used at the start of Sephiroth's Super Nova are equations used in Astrophysics. They are as follows:
unknown.png (549×331) (discordapp.com)
The first two equations calculate the sun's and planet's potential attractive forces. The third equation calculates the Earth's potential attractive forces and the fourth misstates that the asteroid is working on a two-dimensional level, as it is the equation for the area of a circle, all to direct the energy used to cause the supernova.
Furthermore
Ptolemy's diagram of the celestial spheres, also known as the classical planets, or the "Seven Heavens", is used in the Super Nova animation. Since there are seven, this can be seen as another allusion the game has to the number seven. Pluto is among the planets Super Nova destroys, as it was still considered a planet until eight years after the game's release. However, neither Pluto, Neptune, nor Uranus had been discovered when Ptolemy conceived of the celestial spheres.
Sephiroth also uses the same equation when using Supernova in dissidia.
Lastly guides further confirm he guides it.
スーパーノヴァ (インターナショナル版)
Sūpānovu~a (intānashonaru-ban)
Supernova (International version)
両手をかかげ、 セフィロスがその場から姿を消す。
ryōte o kakage, sefirosu ga sono ba kara sugata o kesu.
Holding both hands, Sephiroth disappears from the spot.
計背景の雲がこまかく割れ、破片が宇宙空間へと吸いこまれていく
Kei haikei no kumo ga komakaku ware, hahen ga uchū kūkan e to suikoma rete iku.
The clouds in the background are broken into pieces, and fragments are sucked into outer space.
太陽系の星々の位置を表した星図が映し出され………
Taiyōkei no shinshin no ichi o arawashita seizu ga utsushidasa re……….
A star map showing the positions of the stars in the solar system is projected ...
あまたの星々や赤い星雲をバックに、古代の数式が浮かぶ
Amata no shinshin ya akai seiun o bakku ni, kodai no sūshiki ga ukabu
Ancient formulas float in the background of the stars and the red nebula.
さらに4つの数式がひとつずつ現れては消えていく
Sarani 4tsu no sūshiki ga hitotsu zutsu arawarete wa kieteiku.
Four more formulas appear and disappear one by one.
太陽系へ矢印が向けられた図が描かれるとともに、 流星が出現
Taiyōkei e yajirushi ga muke rareta zu ga egaka reruto tomoni, ryūsei ga shutsugen.
A drawing with an arrow pointing to the solar system is drawn, and a meteor appears.
流星が宇宙空間を突き進むなか, さらに数式が浮かび上がる
Ryūsei ga uchū kūkan o tsukisusumu naka, sarani sūshiki ga ukabiagaru.
As the meteor rushes through outer space, mathematical formulas emerge.
流星は青白く輝きながら、 超高速で太陽系へ突入
Ryūsei wa aojiroku kagayakinagara, chō kōsoku de taiyōkei e totsunyū.
The meteor bursts into the solar system while shining pale.
スーパーノヴァ
Sūpānovu~a
Supernova
何かを呼び寄せるかうに両手を掲げるセフィロス。
Nanika o yobiyoseru ka uni ryōte o kakageru sefirosu.
Sephiroth raises his hands to call something.
流星が現れ、太陽系の星々をつぎつぎと破壊していく。
Ryūsei ga araware, taiyōkei no shinshin o tsugitsugi to hakai ***** iku.
A meteor appears, destroying the planets of the solar system one after another.
やがて流星は太陽に激突し、その衝撃で太陽は膨張を開始。
Yagate ryūsei wa taiyō ni gekitotsu shi, sono shōgeki de taiyō wa bōchō o kaishi.
Eventually, the meteor crashes into the sun, and the shock causes the sun to expand.
超新星爆発(スーパーノヴァ)が起こり、すさまじい衝撃波がすべてを飲みこむ。
Chōshinsei bakuhatsu (sūpānovu~a) ga okori, susamajī shōgekiha ga subete o nomikomu.
A supernova explosion (Super Nova) occurs, and a tremendous shock wave swallows everything.
With all of this in mind, I think it's safe to take it as Sephiroth using his Telekinesis to bring the comet to inititate the Supernova.
The second issue that is brought up, and the biggest one, is how nobody scales to the comet as nobody directly interacts with it. However, if we accept what is mentioned above, that Sephiroth does indeed use his Telekinesis to alter the orbit of a comet travelling through space and redirect it into the Solar System, then it could be said he actually does interact with it. He should be able to perceive the comet, locate it while its moving through outer space and catch it with his Telekinesis to change its trajectory to new target. While it's debatable how fast the Telekinesis itself would be for such distance as there are little details on it, Sephy's perceptions and reactions do interact with the Comet, and these were surpassed by the party in the final battle as they could work through his defenses, hurt him and even avoid some of his attacks. All in all, this means they do scale to the comet's speed even if nobody is seen interacting with it on-screen.
Furthermore he’s able to perceive it in motion while using tk, as he is calculating its path to initiate the supernova.
Sephiroth also uses telekinesis to propel himself forward in combat. (couldnt find a gif at this time).
Essentially, he can move the comet at 20.571 Trillions C, and can perceive it while moving, and can move himself and other objects with the same tk.
With this in mind, he should be given 20 trillion c for reactions and attack speed with tk.
Red XIII
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Migue79/Final_Fantasy_7:_2_More_Massively_FTL+_Calcs
DMUA agreed with the red xiii calc, which gets 65.9 Million c. I will explain the context for the feat.
リミットレベル 2
LIMIT LEVEL
上級技
スターダストレイ
低くかまえて魔力をためると、あたりはいつの間にか星空に。
レッドXIIIの遠吠えに応えるかのように、星くずが出現。
無数の星くずは雨のように降りそそぎ、モンスターにダメージを与える。
Limit level 2
LIMIT LEVEL
Advanced skill
Stardust Ray
If you hold it low and accumulate magical power, the area will suddenly become a starry sky.
Stardust appears as if to respond to the howl of Red XIII.
Countless stardust pours down like rain, damaging monsters.
Energy is absorbed from stars in the sky into a ball of flame on the planet, which is then fired at the enemy.
To quote dmua:
"Red XIII summoning the attack shouldn't be immensely slower than him just drawing power for it"
Red xiii is able to bring that energy to himself at that speed.
So same thing as for sephi, scale to reactions mainly.
Total:
20.571 Trillions C for Sephiroth, for reactions, movement with tk, and attack speed with tk.
65.9 Million C for Red XIII, for reactions