Feats much beyond the universal baseline in Ben 10

[Scarlet_Kaiser]

Well, in my last CRT, I ended up proving that Big Chill's ice has a durability superior to the force generated by the drill, but as @GeneralSol16 said: other feats are needed to sustain this level for the task, so let's use all the feats shown for Humungousaur to sustain the power level of the others (as always).

(The tier will be a little high, but there are enough of them to sustain it).
Humungousaur

Speaking of him, he decided to show up to be the first, according to the novelization, the entropy pump was beginning to destroy reality, this was stated again on the back cover of the book, many of you will probably say that this refers to the destruction of light years mentioned by paradox, but if we look at his speech, it's not quite like that, He specifies that the entropy pump is active, which is consistent with the script declaring a growing increase in energy coming from the entropy pump. Enosmossauro was able to make the agreggor let out faint moans (this will be relevant when we talk about him). So we can conclude that the explosion is capable of destroying reality in its entirety, but if that's not enough, see the next point.

Tier: 1-C, likely 1-B

Vilgax, Agreggor and Ultimate Kevin

Just to clarify one thing from the outset: Kevin and Vilgax are only together with Agreggor because they complement a narrative in the AF and UA eras. OV no longer followed this narrative, which is why he is not here.

To begin with Vilgax, he broke Big Chill's ice twice, we've already seen how absurd the ice is, so that's already a cool feat, he subdued Humungousaur, now let's move on to the narrative, declared stronger than the Highbreed, which was demonstrated on screen when he subdued Humungousaur, so the narrative continues to show an arc villain being more powerful than the previous one. You'll see this narrative of an arc villain being more powerful than the previous one more in UA.


Now, let's talk about Agreggor. I think I've lost count of how many statements have declared him to be a greater threat than previous villains, so much so that Dwayne declares him to be above Vilgax AF in his supreme form. Now, is that consistent? Yes, he gave Humungousaur two one-shots, where even though he didn't use his grown form, he could still go head-to-head with Vilgax, where he also defeated Ultimate Swampfire. Needless to say, he almost defeated Vilgax. Furthermore, the UA guide states that Agreggor can destroy the universe twice, so we can give consistency to Humungousaur's feat, given that the most he achieved in that sequence of punches was weak moans.


Now, besides Ultimate Kevin defeating Agreggor and breaking the ice of the cold, it is confirmed that if he absorbed the classic Omnitrix, he would defeat Agreggor with more difficulty, which further solidifies the narrative of an arc villain being more powerful than the previous one in AF and UA.

Tier; 1-C, likely 1-B

Big Chill (Again)

Yes, him again. As I mentioned once in the first CRT, it was accidentally released, so it was about 99% incomplete, but anyway, it was able to freeze Ultimate Kevin for a few seconds, proving to be far superior to Vilgax and further reinforcing his drill achievement.

Tier: 1-C, likely 1-B

Maultruant and Feedback

Well, let's start with the feedback. He was able to contain the Big Bang, even though he was using his absorption Hax and had help from the alien X (who doesn't appear in the scene because it's an error by the animators; scenes of Ben in human form show her again). It's still possible to see him making an effort to contain all that energy. his body naturally has the capacity to withstand this level of energy, since in Ghost Ship he absorbed so much energy that he exploded. We also saw this in Chromastone, where there was so much energy that his body vaporized, so we can say that his body naturally has the capacity to withstand energy of this level. Maultruant withstood all the energy of the Big Bang for a few seconds, so it's consistent.

Q: But did the aliens witness the Big Bang?



R: The Omnitrix is stated to have instantaneous speed on the back, which we see Ben transforming into slow motion, so with that in mind, none of them had time to accomplish this feat, so we shouldn't consider this feat for all Aliens, only for Feedback, the rest will have this level of power.

Tier: 1-C, likely 1-B

Reasons for tier 1-C, likely 1-B: Ben's universe is accepted with this level of cosmology.

Agree: @RigelBR7
Disagrees:
Neutral:

Coisa boa em Cleide

 

[RigelBR7]

Agree and following

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Sucks that since Imgur is blocked in my country I sometimes can’t talk about everything in CRTs now. Anyways I’m just gonna do what I can.

Big Chill (Again)

Are you suggesting that Big Chill should scale to Ultimate Kevin? Because not only is Ultimate Kevin tens of times stronger than Big Chill but Vilgax (who is weaker than Ultimate Kevin) is also stronger than Big Chill.

Maultruant and Feedback

Feedback being able to handle the Big Bang is attributed to him having higher durability against energy attacks. Using the Chromastone example, that would suggest Chromastone physically isn’t Big Bang level which goes against the main proposal of the thread. I’m also confused on why this is considered a feat only for Feedback when most aliens have a way to scale to Feedback and Humungousaur. Ultimate Aggregor is also the combined power of six characters (five of who are aliens Ben can turn into), which also means everyone downscales from him.

For Maltruant I believe the wiki has rules against scaling in durability to things that deal heavy damage. Blowing up into pieces would count for that. Also even if Maltruant did downscale, he’s so far up the scaling chain that regular aliens can’t scale to him, so him imploding after a second is also a huge anti-feat for this scaling.

Overall I disagree on any kind of upgrade. As mentioned in the last thread I disagree on Big Chill scaling to Low 2-C, and neither Feedback or Maltruant have any physical scaling to the Big Bang. I can’t speak on the Entropy Pump destroying reality or Ultimate Aggregor being able to destroy the universe as I can’t access the Imgur links, however I’d probably be against using them even if they check out as:

1. They’re too unsubstantial for such an immense tier jump.
2. The examples of Chromastone and Maltruant contradict the verse actually scaling to Big Bang level attacks (also Atomic-X couldn’t stop a Low 1-C bomb so there’s that too).
3. I think “reality” in the Entropy Pump’s case would more likely mean “all of existence”, which would be flat out 1-B and a definite no.

 

[Hellformer]

1. I think “reality” in the Entropy Pump’s case would more likely mean “all of existence”, which would be flat out 1-B and a definite no.

It depends on the context, smth like:

• Paradox says "These branches represent alternate timelines, where reality literally branches off and becomes a different timeline"
  • Reality ~ timeline?!
• Then he also said "There's always more to reality than one imagines" in context to The Space Beyond having more Universes.
  • Reality ~ The Space Beyond
• "Like the thousands of foes I've faced before, this extradimensional creature came into our plane of reality the moment my experiment went..." in context to Hugo roaming around area 51.
  • Reality ~ 3rd dimension

 

[Ghengiroo115]

It depends on the context, smth like:

• Paradox says "These branches represent alternate timelines, where reality literally branches off and becomes a different timeline"
  • Reality ~ timeline?!
• Then he also said "There's always more to reality than one imagines" in context to The Space Beyond having more Universes.
  • Reality ~ The Space Beyond
• "Like the thousands of foes I've faced before, this extradimensional creature came into our plane of reality the moment my experiment went..." in context to Hugo roaming around area 51.
  • Reality ~ 3rd dimension

Interesting. Sadly I can’t speak to the context of the novel statement as I mentioned before, but based on these examples I can see it either meaning High 3-A/2-A (depends on what counts for “third dimension” in Ben 10), 1-C, likely 1-B or flat out 1-B. I don’t think it’d mean timeline 2-A as that concept wasn’t as defined until Season 3.

 

[AyOgUyS]

neutral, leaning towards agree

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

Sucks that since Imgur is blocked in my country I sometimes can’t talk about everything in CRTs now. Anyways I’m just gonna do what I can.


Are you suggesting that Big Chill should scale to Ultimate Kevin? Because not only is Ultimate Kevin tens of times stronger than Big Chill but Vilgax (who is weaker than Ultimate Kevin) is also stronger than Big Chill.


Feedback being able to handle the Big Bang is attributed to him having higher durability against energy attacks. Using the Chromastone example, that would suggest Chromastone physically isn’t Big Bang level which goes against the main proposal of the thread. I’m also confused on why this is considered a feat only for Feedback when most aliens have a way to scale to Feedback and Humungousaur. Ultimate Aggregor is also the combined power of six characters (five of who are aliens Ben can turn into), which also means everyone downscales from him.

For Maltruant I believe the wiki has rules against scaling in durability to things that deal heavy damage. Blowing up into pieces would count for that. Also even if Maltruant did downscale, he’s so far up the scaling chain that regular aliens can’t scale to him, so him imploding after a second is also a huge anti-feat for this scaling.

Overall I disagree on any kind of upgrade. As mentioned in the last thread I disagree on Big Chill scaling to Low 2-C, and neither Feedback or Maltruant have any physical scaling to the Big Bang. I can’t speak on the Entropy Pump destroying reality or Ultimate Aggregor being able to destroy the universe as I can’t access the Imgur links, however I’d probably be against using them even if they check out as:

1. They’re too unsubstantial for such an immense tier jump.
2. The examples of Chromastone and Maltruant contradict the verse actually scaling to Big Bang level attacks (also Atomic-X couldn’t stop a Low 1-C bomb so there’s that too).
3. I think “reality” in the Entropy Pump’s case would more likely mean “all of existence”, which would be flat out 1-B and a definite no.

He's not claiming to be on the level of the Big Bang; however, he was able to momentarily withstand energy of such magnitude that, even though it's on a lower power scale than the Big Bang—because he died at the same time—the fact that he managed to endure it for a few seconds demonstrates the absence of an infinite gap.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

He's not claiming to be on the level of the Big Bang; however, he was able to momentarily withstand energy of such magnitude that, even though it's on a lower power scale than the Big Bang—because he died at the same time—the fact that he managed to endure it for a few seconds demonstrates the absence of an infinite gap.

The problem is since he did die after a second, that means he at best massively downscales from it. This contradicts Humungousaur and Feedback physically scaling to that tier as Maltruant is dozens of times stronger than them (Maltruant > Atomic-X > Atomix >= Way Big > Ultimate Humungousaur = 10x Humungousaur).

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

The problem is since he did die after a second, that means he at best massively downscales from it. This contradicts Humungousaur and Feedback physically scaling to that tier as Maltruant is dozens of times stronger than them (Maltruant > Atomic-X > Atomix >= Way Big > Ultimate Humungousaur = 10x Humungousaur).

That's more of an inverse Ben 10, which I don't know much about (practically nothing to be exact), but the level 1 durability feat for him momentarily sustaining the Big Bang doesn't seem so bad.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

That's more of an inverse Ben 10, which I don't know much about (practically nothing to be exact), but the level 1 durability feat for him momentarily sustaining the Big Bang doesn't seem so bad.

I think there are wiki rules when it comes to attacks that deal massive damage to a character (like blowing them up), so I don’t think he’d be allowed to scale to this. Even if he was though, he also scales to a character that failed to stop a Low 1-C bomb so it’s kinda iffy to downscale him from the Big Bang regardless.

 

[Lort15]

wild

 

[OrangeFR]

Agreeing with Ghengiroo more rn (meaning I disagree with OP)

 

[GeneralSol16]

You REALLY need to fix the tags on this thing, no one knew about this bc it wasn't tagged properly.

Anyway, in the same scan you used to scale Aggregor above all of Ben's previous villains, it classifies the Entropy pump as a weapon, meaning that it'd be below Ascalon, who upscales from all of the previous techs seen in the show.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Bump

 

[KLOL506]

@Firestorm808 @Reiner04 @Qawsedf234

 

[GeneralSol16]

Bump

 

[GeneralSol16]

Bumping

 

[GeneralSol16]

Bump