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Ergenverse Cosmology Re-Evaluation

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Planck69

Planck69

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This thread is made to re-evaluate the series' reasoning for 1-A to see if it still fits with the new standards. Below is the current reasoning for 1-A for the god tiers of ErGenverse.


Alongside the reasoning for Bai Xiaochun being a level above baseline 1-A (with a far clearer Reality-Fiction transcendence);

Is a 5th Step cultivator, who are described as viewing all The Universe and its Transcendent cultivators as a painted image such that whatever form the painting takes, whether a human or a Transcendent cultivator, is equally irrelevant in their eyes. The breakthrough to this "other dimension" is described as a dream being conjured out of thin air and a painted image becoming real, viewing The Universe and its 4th Step cultivators as an illusion)
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Agree:

Disagree:

Neutral:
 
Wasn't Ergenverse already 1-A before these standards? Please correct me if I am wrong

Basically, I guess not much has changed for Ergenverse. It's still 1-A and yes, I agree with that.
 
I mean, wouldn't the fact that they achieve that level thanks to cultivation invoke a problem in itself? I feel Essence itself being Low 1-A/ 1-A seems fine, but for 5th step cultivator, it seems rather complicated.
 
Why? They're 1-A because they become Essences/Daos unto themselves, not due to piling on some nebulous "cultivation energy" in greater quantity.

The 5th Step is just seeing the lower Universe and cultivators as fiction, which is relatively straightforward. At least, as far as my understanding goes.
 
Planck69 said:
Why? They're 1-A because they become Essences/Daos unto themselves, not due to piling on some nebulous "cultivation energy" in greater quantity.

The 5th Step is just seeing the lower Universe and cultivators as fiction, which is relatively straightforward.
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I think what he means is that it's just an increase in power because in the new system R>F and 1-A give you things like HDE with BDE type 2, so I think you are not only ascending with "terms of power" but also with your "state of existence." If that's the case, would those who ascended to step 5 get HDE and BDE type 2? Or would it be an anti-feat or something if they got there with just them powers?(without terms of existence)


IDK actually, i think it's best to wait for Ultima, let him decide.
 
Planck69 said:
Why? They're 1-A because they become Essences/Daos unto themselves, not due to piling on some nebulous "cultivation energy" in greater quantity.

The 5th Step is just seeing the lower Universe and cultivators as fiction, which is relatively straightforward. At least, as far as my understanding goes.
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The problem isn't much about Essence Level, it's becoming "stronger/higher" than those essences by their own means. 4th step cultivators transcends Essences by... combining essences? Kinda weird. At least, that was how Meng Hao Transcended iirc.
 
Georredannea15 said:
I think what he means is that it's just an increase in power because in the new system R>F and 1-A give you things like HDE with BDE type 2, so I think you are not only ascending with "terms of power" but also with your "state of existence." If that's the case, would those who ascended to step 5 get HDE and BDE type 2? Or would it be an anti-feat or something if they got there with just them powers?(without terms of existence)
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Makes sense.
 
Not sure about Ergenverse specifically but in most Cultivation novels these higher tiers are reached by becoming one with the Dao/Essence, and thus transcending reality and such. Usually accompanied by trans duality/nonexistent physiology, rather than them just getting stronger physically.

And their manipulation of said Dao/essence comes from the ability to cultivate Qi, which is essentially an omnipresent extension of the Dao which exist in everything.


I think 1-A seems fine.
 
Everything12 said:
How are Cultivators able to interact and manipulate Essences?
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They comprehend/understand them and can thus manipulate them and their effects in reality. As can be seen within the blog with Meng Hao having a limited comprehension of the Essence of Space and controlling countless spatial dimensions as a result.
 
Comprehending something qualitatively beyond you, and that allowing you to manipulate it. Not sure how I feel about that one.

@Ultima_Reality
What's your opinion.
 
Everything12 said:
Comprehending something qualitatively beyond you, and that allowing you to manipulate it. Not sure how I feel about that one.
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How is coming to understand a concept through looking at its particulars and their rules within your reality, and then using that newfound understanding you have attained to manipulate the concept (not even through you directly manipulating it or anything, you have to specifically use your understanding as a vector to mess with it) anything close to an antifeat?
 
A qualitative difference would be a difference so great that it a lower reality can never grasp the higher reality. It is simply impossible for a lower reality to interact with a higher reality in any way without the assistance of a equal or greater reality, anything else is a anti-feat that disqualifies it for being a qualitative difference.
 
Everything12 said:
Comprehending something qualitatively beyond you, and that allowing you to manipulate it. Not sure how I feel about that one.

@Ultima_Reality
What's your opinion.
Click to expand...
Seems fine. It would fall under these stipulations:

Furthermore, since the "lack of continuity" that exists between the higher level and the lower one is structural, and not causal, there can potentially be more unorthodox ways of bypassing the 1-A barrier. For example: Things that don't have anything to do with raw power, but just a general transfer/exposure of information between one level and another.

On the matter of power sources: That would depend on the nature of the power source itself. For example, a common trope in fiction is power sources that, so to speak, are "for the taking," meaning they are naturally self-diffusive and don't offer any resistance whatsoever to being tapped into, as being utilized in such a way is in their nafure. Drawing power from such sources is obviously not actually an anti-feat for them being 1-A, especially so if they are depicted as naturally connected to, and united with, the beings that tap into them.
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Overall, 1-A seems like it stays firm.
 
True, if the Essence are like some spiritual organ that cultivators already possess, and not something they grow or obtain, that would be fine.
 
Everything12 said:
True, if the Essence are like some spiritual organ that cultivators already possess, and not something they grow or obtain, that would be fine.
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I mean, they don't spawn with Essence, they have to understand it to "acquire" it. Like, you have to observe space to get the Essence of Space for example. Same with more minor Essence like Wind or Lightning.
 
Put me down for Neutral. This requires too much contextual knowledge of the (SUPER LONG) series for me to give any clear judgement.
 
SweetDao said:
I mean, they don't spawn with Essence, they have to understand it to "acquire" it. Like, you have to observe space to get the Essence of Space for example. Same with more minor Essence like Wind or Lightning.
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From what I understand, this is really just a matter of intellectual contemplation culminating in spiritual enlightenment, no? If so, this isn't an anti-feat at all.
 
So spiritual enlightenment without some sort of spiritual/metaphysical organ born from a higher reality is a valid way of reaching qualitative superiority. Wasn't sure on that, but I don't disagree with the logic.

Put me down for agree then.
 
Everything12 said:
So spiritual enlightenment without some sort of spiritual/metaphysical organ born from a higher reality is a valid way of reaching qualitative superiority. Wasn't sure on that, but I don't disagree with the logic.
Click to expand...
It would still fall under the "innate metaphysical potential" bit, combined with the other stipulations already listed. In these cases, this stuff is just a property of the setting itself.
 
Thanks for the evaluation. Is anymore input needed here?
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Is this able to be closed since theres no change to justifications or tiers and not really be subject to grace?
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Sorry if my understanding of ergenverse is limited (it is), but I thought that only 5th step are the only ones who have r>f. And I don't think that men hao is a 5th step cultivator (the profile isn't really clear about it, in my defense)
 
Bai Xiaochun is the 5th Step cultivator, not Meng Hao. Daos/Essences justification isn't the exact same as the 5th Step above it, as you can see from the blog.
 
Planck69 said:
Bai Xiaochun is the 5th Step cultivator, not Meng Hao. Daos/Essences justification isn't the exact same as the 5th Step above it, as you can see from the blog.
Click to expand...
Yes that is my point, if meng hao isn't a 5th step cultivator, apparently doesn't have any r>f shenanigans going on, and doesn't scale to an 5th step, then why he should be 1-A?
 
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