Equal stats enemy duos tournament

[DontTalkDT]

Yeah that

Main issue is that even toned down in the heat department, Rag and Al'Akir are giant AoE monsters who can just literally force constant damage that, with seemingly no heat resistance to speak of, would kill in seconds. And they can both spawn attacks onto people. And your characters are literally melee only so they can't fight Rag without dying.

Edit: but if you want to debate it I'm fine with a thread

1 second into the fight my character get Galaxy level forcefields which completely shield them from all of that.
Unless you say that there is DOT that stat equal kills opponents in less than 3 seconds the summons should be able to fight just fine.

 

[DaReaperMan]

1 second into the fight my character get Galaxy level forcefields which completely shield them from all of that.
Unless you say that there is DOT that stat equal kills opponents in less than 3 seconds the summons should be able to fight just fine.

Hence the whole "They can spawn attacks on people" thing. I mean Al'Akir makes a tornado on top of you and Ragnaros makes Firelands Magma explode from the ground spawn on you

 

[DontTalkDT]

Hence the whole "They can spawn attacks on people" thing. I mean Al'Akir makes a tornado on top of you and Ragnaros makes Firelands Magma explode from the ground spawn on you

That won't circumvent the protective circle. The White Queen can just annihilate spacetime in coordinates of her choice, without any attack travel, and that as well is blocked by the protective circle. It's an all around defense, intended to make you immune to everything in the verse while it's up.
Edit: Like, Kyousuke and Biondetta literally dueled on the surface of the sun for a while.

 

[DaReaperMan]

That won't circumvent the protective circle. The White Queen can just annihilate spacetime in coordinates of her choice, without any attack travel, and that as well is blocked by the protective circle. It's an all around defense, intended to make you immune to everything in the verse while it's up.
Edit: Like, Kyousuke and Biondetta literally dueled on the surface of the sun for a while.

Seems to be sufficient for a thread then, though I should note exhaustion is a very real problem they'll face cause both Rag and Al'Akir have infinite Stamina and summoning help... won't do much.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Seems to be sufficient for a thread then, though I should note exhaustion is a very real problem they'll face cause both Rag and Al'Akir have infinite Stamina and summoning help... won't do much.

Don't worry. The fight won't take more than 10 minutes at most.

 

[ShionAH]

All dat for the Freddy to solo fr 🗣

 

[Topaz404]

All dat for the Freddy to solo fr 🗣

Nah id win

 

[DaReaperMan]

Don't worry. The fight won't take more than 10 minutes at most.

Not by their profiles it won't take 10 minutes lol

 

[DaReaperMan]

And yes, I say this because every Material I looked over would basically be restricted into oblivion and back for having hax that instantly wins a fight

It's why Ragnaros isn't such a monster here, his heat is watered down to reasonable levels so quite literally all of his attacks won't win the fight if they connect

...waitaminute.

Scan.

Enhance.

I don't really want to restrict hax too much.

HMMMMMMM...

No god-tier "I instantly beat you" or "I can never die" hax

"Invulnerability to conventional weapons and pure physical damage" is on every Material's profile, And a few have both passives and instant kill hax... I'd say there's a bit more restricted here than lowering a broken regeneration down to reasonable levels.

 

[DontTalkDT]

...waitaminute.

Scan.

Enhance.

HMMMMMMM...

"Invulnerability to conventional weapons and pure physical damage" is on every Material's profile, And a few have both passives and instant kill hax... I'd say there's a bit more restricted here than lowering a broken regeneration down to reasonable levels.

I doubt the invulnerability to non-magical damage will be very relevant against the supernatural elementals lol
For the rest... well, I will explain in the thread. Nothing is instant win for the summoners.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I doubt the invulnerability to non-magical damage will be very relevant against the supernatural elementals lol
For the rest... well, I will explain in the thread. Nothing is instant win for the summoners.

DT, the issue isn't that my team might not be able to damage the materials, it's that about half the tournament can't. And to that point, Ragnaros can only damage them if he chooses to use his soul-burn on his flames, Al'akir just straight up can't damage them, both of these characters are totally 100% natural in all their hax.

Also doesn't White Queen have passives? Like... the entire reason she's as high as she is on the Non-Smurf list is because she has passives?

 

[Topaz404]

Man even when Reaper is giving you shit you know your in deep crap
(ngl i kinda have a similar concern with Freddy but i think the RW is restricted thankfully)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Man even when Reaper is giving you shit you know your in deep crap
(ngl i kinda have a similar concern with Freddy but i think the RW is restricted thankfully)

Giving people shit is normal for me in tournaments, it's just in most of the recent ones I brought in characters who were too strong so I didn't exactly want to raise the bullshit flag and handed it to people to raise against me if wanted

 

[DontTalkDT]

DT, the issue isn't that my team might not be able to damage the materials, it's that about half the tournament can't. And to that point, Ragnaros can only damage them if he chooses to use his soul-burn on his flames, Al'akir just straight up can't damage them, both of these characters are totally 100% natural in all their hax.

Also doesn't White Queen have passives? Like... the entire reason she's as high as she is on the Non-Smurf list is because she has passives?

When I say magical damage, then a punch of a supernatural creature (which yours are) is included in that. Like, some Materials are literally just people that punch each other and that works. The only thing that doesn't work is if you bring a weapon or creature that isn't supernatural at all.
So no, I actually think everyone in the tournament can harm them at least with some techniques, if not even most techniques.

The White Queen is the reason the fight won't last 10 minutes. Biondetta will summon her after approximately 9 minutes at which point my team just wins.
I will get into details of how the summoning ceremony works in the thread, but all that needs to be said is that one can't just instantly summon any Material one wants.
And before I hear "but I can't prevent the fight from going 9 minutes, because your characters have an unbreakable forcefield that protects them against everything", no, they can be defeated despite the forcefield. Summoning battles are like Pokémon battles. You are supposed to fight creature vs creature, not attack the trainer. The summoning circle merely prevents the trainer from being attacked. You can win by just defeating their "Pokémon", after which the Summoning Ceremony itself just hands you the win.
But again, I will write a detailed explanation of how the Summoning Ceremony works in the thread. It's complicated.

 

[DaReaperMan]

When I say magical damage, then a punch of a supernatural creature (which yours are) is included in that. Like, some Materials are literally just people that punch each other and that works. The only thing that doesn't work is if you bring a weapon or creature that isn't supernatural at all.
So no, I actually think everyone in the tournament can harm them at least with some techniques, if not even most techniques.

Now is this due to them being extremely supernatural or because of an in-verse mechanic? If it's not explained at all, I'd go with the former

The White Queen is the reason the fight won't last 10 minutes. Biondetta will summon her after approximately 9 minutes at which point my team just wins.
I will get into details of how the summoning ceremony works in the thread, but all that needs to be said is that one can't just instantly summon any Material one wants.
And before I hear "but I can't prevent the fight from going 9 minutes, because your characters have an unbreakable forcefield that protects them against everything", no, they can be defeated despite the forcefield. Summoning battles are like Pokémon battles. You are supposed to fight creature vs creature, not attack the trainer. The summoning circle merely prevents the trainer from being attacked. You can win by just defeating their "Pokémon", after which the Summoning Ceremony itself just hands you the win.
But again, I will write a detailed explanation of how the Summoning Ceremony works in the thread. It's complicated.

The White Queen would be restricted into the ground, DT. From what I can gather, she seemingly wouldn't even have a single hax left over as everything that can instant win is purged from her, just like how Ragnaros' insane heat is largely purged from him. That is of course unless you want full throttle 15 million degrees celcius Rag, and I shouldn't have to go into details why he ends the fight in the time it takes for him and Al'Akir to do a combo attack.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Now is this due to them being extremely supernatural or because of an in-verse mechanic? If it's not explained at all, I'd go with

The specific reason Materials can't be harmed by regular weapons is because they come from a universe with different laws of physics and the interaction with our world's laws of physics is just "they don't take damage".
But as said, by what we see in the verse anything supernatural should work, even if it's just a Valkyrie's punch.
It's not even that I would mind it restricted, as I'm fairly sure it would rarely even matter.

The White Queen would be restricted into the ground, DT. From what I can gather, she seemingly wouldn't even have a single hax left over as everything that can instant win is purged from her, just like how Ragnaros' insane heat is largely purged from him. That is of course unless you want full throttle 15 million degrees celcius Rag, and I shouldn't have to go into details why he ends the fight in the time it takes for him and Al'Akir to do a combo attack.

The White Queen isn't the character that is from the beginning on the battlefield, though.
This tournament has no rules on restricting hax categories. It only has rules on restricting things that are instant win.
Something that wins the battle 9 minutes into the fight is by no means instant win. You can simply win the battle before she comes out. Putting the battle on a timer is not unfair in the slightest. Look at the GoH character. They have undodgable disease hax that will kill anyone without resistance in way less than 9 minutes. And that was allowed, because, guess what, it is not instant.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The specific reason Materials can't be harmed by regular weapons is because they come from a universe with different laws of physics and the interaction with our world's laws of physics is just "they don't take damage".
But as said, by what we see in the verse anything supernatural should work, even if it's just a Valkyrie's punch.
It's not even that I would mind it restricted, as I'm fairly sure it would rarely even matter.

It's Physics-based Invulnerability, then? Cause it seems like the verse just has the supernatural stuff able to deal with it, and it can't be cross-scaled to other verses.

The White Queen isn't the character that is from the beginning on the battlefield, though.
This tournament has no rules on restricting hax categories. It only has rules on restricting things that are instant win.
Something that wins the battle 9 minutes into the fight is by no means instant win. You can simply win the battle before she comes out. Putting the battle on a timer is not unfair in the slightest. Look at the GoH character. They have undodgable disease hax that will kill anyone without resistance in way less than 9 minutes. And that was allowed, because, guess what, it is not instant.

I'm also pretty sure he barely ever uses it, so... yeah. Your character actively uses White Queen, doesn't really matter since the specification was instant win, and White Queen is an instant win, so either she's entirely restricted or she's so neutered she might as well be.

 

[DontTalkDT]

It's Physics-based Invulnerability, then? Cause it seems like the verse just has the supernatural stuff able to deal with it, and it can't be cross-scaled to other verses.

I think it can be verse equalized so that anything that doesn't obey regular physics works, which is everything supernatural.

I'm also pretty sure he barely ever uses it, so... yeah.

No, the GoH character instantly uses it as her in-character opening move. Have you read the thread with them?

Your character actively uses White Queen, doesn't really matter since the specification was instant win, and White Queen is an instant win, so either she's entirely restricted or she's so neutered she might as well be.

An ability which can only be used after 9 minutes is by no definition of the term an instant win. 9 Minutes ≠ Instant.
Again, you would have a point if the character you are fighting were the White Queen herself, but it isn't. You are fighting Biondetta and Kyousuke, who can only use the White Queen's abilities after a considerable amount of battle was done. For them, the abilities are neither passive nor instant win. It's a wincon they get access to when the opponent doesn't defeat them fast.
There is no reason to restrict the WQ in any form, neither for balancing nor by the rules. Being able to drop a figurative nuke 9 minutes into a fight is simply a fair ability.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I think it can be verse equalized so that anything that doesn't obey regular physics works, which is everything supernatural.

That wouldn't exactly make sense.

No, the GoH character instantly uses it as her in-character opening move. Have you read the thread with them?

1. Then it should be restricted because that is blatantly just instant death with extra steps

2. No unless votes are needed I don't bother reading tournament matches that don't concern my characters

 

[DontTalkDT]

That wouldn't exactly make sense.

If you don't like verse equalization that's a you problem.

1. Then it should be restricted because that is blatantly just instant death with extra steps

You mean instant death hax that isn't instant? So just hax that can kill?

I mean, if you insist ask the tournament maker whether the GoH disease hax and the 9 minute nuke are allowed.

Edit: Also, you described your characters as "giant AoE monsters who can just literally force constant damage that, with seemingly no heat resistance to speak of, would kill in seconds". My summoners need around 9 minutes until it's WQ gg, GoH character's disease probably takes a few dozen seconds, your AoE heat hax supposedly takes only a few seconds. You literally have the fastest hax wincon of all cases brought up.

 

[Topaz404]

So, whats the thing we're agreeing with?

 

[Psychomaster35]

Bump?

 

[DontTalkDT]

I like how everyone was like "we all know how 1-6 is going to go" and now it's already the most controversial match of the tournament (to this point)

 

[Shadowslash125]

Nothing is more interesting to see than a match that would've finished in a flash is way more even than expected tbh.

 

[Topaz404]

I mean if it's thread worthy, im down to watch, but if not? Well- that kinda complicates things