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So should I close the thread? It's not going to get added and it appears Hegemon is too strong for Dimitri. Unless the OP wants to edit the OP to give specific versions. Such as making it Crimson Flower Edelgard Vs Avert Moon Dimitri.
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Edelgard Vs Claude
- Thread starter No_Might
- Start date
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That would be a much better matchup. Edelgard actually has counterattack so she could hit him.
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Basically units with counterattack can summon lightning to counterattack from any distance. We don't see it in cutscenes or anything, but it can be used for vs battles.
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Counterattack grants the user the ability to use lightning to counterattack. Doesn't really matter if she has lightning spells or not.
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I think Claude takes this high-diff or the fight is incon. Claude while he is liable to being counterattacked, he can still dodge her counterstrikes while still having the range advantage here, especially with his Combat Arts which make him far more evasive. Overall, while Edelgard has more brute power and is more tanky, she is not so far beyond Claude that his attacks can't deal considerable damage to her. Claude has the overall mobility and range advantage. While counterattack allows her to hit him back, Claude's overall evasion and the fact that he'd more than likely account for that and properly dodge it while also range spamming. Basically, in my eyes, Claude takes this by virtue of just being extremely hard to hit.
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Lets start with Edelgard. She is physically stronger and more durable, is probably quicker combat speed wise via Raging Storm, has slightly more reliable healing, and has Luna, which negates resistance.
Claude is far more mobile/agile due to his Wyvern, is likely faster overall, and can guarantee dodges via Fallen Star.
Any debuffs are negated by both via Commander.
Luna could probably be fatal to Claude, but Claude has Fallen Star, which guarantees he dodges it. He will definitely get the first hit off, since he is faster than Edelgard. Edelgard also has Raging Storm, but Claude can easily get away thanks to better mobility. Sure, Edelgard has more reliable healing thanks to the crest of flames, but in order for it to work, she would need to actually land a hit on Claude, which is pretty unlikely. I think its likely Claude will just spam Fallen Star and call it a day.
In short, I vote for Claude via better mobility, speed, and being able to spam fallen star.
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She probably can't deflect them. Dodging is still a possibility, but I doubt she can dodge that much since Claude is probably faster overall. Claude can definitely use fallen star quite a lot, since relic weapons in terms of lore are very durable.
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Claude really is the strongest of the three discounting Hedgemon Edel
Claude FRA
Claude FRA
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I mean the Immaculate one is like the size of a freaking skyscraper, so it shouldn't be too hard to hit her. It's more of a question of how fast she is. I kind of doubt she can just knock them away seeing how Claude could just tear though Nemesis with a single arrow. Even if she manages to block the attack, the effect of Fallen Star would still happen.
also, I forgot to mention this but Claude has silence to prevent her from using magic.
also, I forgot to mention this but Claude has silence to prevent her from using magic.
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Well, yeah seeing how he can overpower both Sothis-Fused Byleth and Claude. He probably became stronger when he was resurrected, since Sothis-Fused Byleth is probably stronger than Seiros.
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In terms of strength, they should be relatively comparable to each other. Though I think Nemesis may have a slight edge in terms of AP, since Byleth could largely take on a Beserk Immaculate one by themselves, while they got overpowered by Nemesis.
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Yea, SS Byleth is the strongest Byleth. Point is, Resurrected Nemesis and IO should be relatively comparable to each other. We can discuss this somewhere else if you'd like, I don't want to derail the thread.
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The Nemesis example and his buffs from the other 10 Elites are dependent on it being 11 against 1. And in fact, the other 10 Elites are way easier to beat than any of the other end game bosses. Nemesis is the easiest of the end game bosses if you clear every other enemy out first.
Anyway, Raging Storm and Fallen Star both have a limited number of uses, and Edelgard could arguably still be alive before Claude runs out of ammunition. Also, Edelgard can also heal if she manages to hit thanks to the Crest of Flames and possibly Sword of Seiros. Though, she leads with Amyr yes.
But regardless, I think I'd vote inconclusive since Claude is indeed more agile and usually quite lucky despite the massive power advantage Edelgard has.
Anyway, Raging Storm and Fallen Star both have a limited number of uses, and Edelgard could arguably still be alive before Claude runs out of ammunition. Also, Edelgard can also heal if she manages to hit thanks to the Crest of Flames and possibly Sword of Seiros. Though, she leads with Amyr yes.
But regardless, I think I'd vote inconclusive since Claude is indeed more agile and usually quite lucky despite the massive power advantage Edelgard has.
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I doubt they will run out that quickly, since umbra steel/agarthium are among the strongest materials known to exist in their world. (According to the shadow library)
Claude isn't very likely to run out of ammunition very fast, considering that he usually keeps extra arrows just in case. If he just uses Fallen Star every single time, there isn't much Edelgard can do. Even if he does, all is not exactly lost, since he does have the Sword of Begalta. (I will admit however he will be put at a major disadvantage since he loses pretty hard in close quarters)
Edelgard can indeed passively heal with the sword of Seiros, but so can Claude.
The power gap is notable, but so much that it makes harming her impossible. (Seeing how he can seriously injure Nemesis) Enough fallen stars will obliterate her shield and leave her even more exposed. I'm sure Claude can find a way to get around her defenses, since he is a master tactician.
Claude isn't very likely to run out of ammunition very fast, considering that he usually keeps extra arrows just in case. If he just uses Fallen Star every single time, there isn't much Edelgard can do. Even if he does, all is not exactly lost, since he does have the Sword of Begalta. (I will admit however he will be put at a major disadvantage since he loses pretty hard in close quarters)
Edelgard can indeed passively heal with the sword of Seiros, but so can Claude.
The power gap is notable, but so much that it makes harming her impossible. (Seeing how he can seriously injure Nemesis) Enough fallen stars will obliterate her shield and leave her even more exposed. I'm sure Claude can find a way to get around her defenses, since he is a master tactician.
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And I thought this was a different thread.
Anyway.
Assuming SBA, they are 20 metres apart from each other. Not enough for Claude to abuse range and well within Edelgard's magic range.
Claude has no prep. Since he is bloodlusted he wont go for the hit and run tactic.
Edelgard is superior in cqc and will rush to axe Claude asap since its her only enemy.
Edelgard takes this 7/10 unless Claude gets lucky shots early on.
Anyway.
Assuming SBA, they are 20 metres apart from each other. Not enough for Claude to abuse range and well within Edelgard's magic range.
Claude has no prep. Since he is bloodlusted he wont go for the hit and run tactic.
Edelgard is superior in cqc and will rush to axe Claude asap since its her only enemy.
Edelgard takes this 7/10 unless Claude gets lucky shots early on.
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@PaChi2
I think Claude is just out of her reach for her to use Magic, since each square ingame has been measured to be around 9.6 meters iirc, and most spells only reach 2 squares. Remember that Claude also has silence which completely prevents her from using magic. It is known in lore to last until the user dispels it. (as seen when Yuri silences Constance and Hapi)
As I have said before, nothing stops Claude from abusing Fallen Star due to his superior speed. Even if Edelgard manages to block it (which is unlikely) the effect will still take place. I didn't say that he will go for the hit and run exactly, I said that he would find a way around her defenses. He doesn't need prep time to come up with schemes/tactics. being bloodlusted in vs debates just means they are free from PIS according to the bloodlust page.
Claude isn't stupid enough to stay still when he knows he stands no chance in cq. He will obviously get out of reach from her axe. Not that it really matters anyway due to Fallen Star.
I think Claude is just out of her reach for her to use Magic, since each square ingame has been measured to be around 9.6 meters iirc, and most spells only reach 2 squares. Remember that Claude also has silence which completely prevents her from using magic. It is known in lore to last until the user dispels it. (as seen when Yuri silences Constance and Hapi)
As I have said before, nothing stops Claude from abusing Fallen Star due to his superior speed. Even if Edelgard manages to block it (which is unlikely) the effect will still take place. I didn't say that he will go for the hit and run exactly, I said that he would find a way around her defenses. He doesn't need prep time to come up with schemes/tactics. being bloodlusted in vs debates just means they are free from PIS according to the bloodlust page.
Claude isn't stupid enough to stay still when he knows he stands no chance in cq. He will obviously get out of reach from her axe. Not that it really matters anyway due to Fallen Star.
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@No Might
its just spatial manipulation. Not to sound rude, but could you ask those types of questions somewhere else? Such as a QNA thread or the main fire emblem discussion thread. (Don't wanna sounds like I'm mini modding, but just letting you know it would be a better place for it)
yea, since he had the crest stone of flames. The profiles show that they don't scale to half the high end of the sword of the creator, but they scale to half of the low end. Though normal relics are probably comparable to the sublime sword of the creator, since we see nemesis fighting Byleth with a Dark SotC powered by two crest stones. But it's likely that Reserructed Nemesis is just that powerful.
its just spatial manipulation. Not to sound rude, but could you ask those types of questions somewhere else? Such as a QNA thread or the main fire emblem discussion thread. (Don't wanna sounds like I'm mini modding, but just letting you know it would be a better place for it)
yea, since he had the crest stone of flames. The profiles show that they don't scale to half the high end of the sword of the creator, but they scale to half of the low end. Though normal relics are probably comparable to the sublime sword of the creator, since we see nemesis fighting Byleth with a Dark SotC powered by two crest stones. But it's likely that Reserructed Nemesis is just that powerful.
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"Because of Fallen Star"
Raging Storm perfectly counters Fallen Star.
If Edelgard's first hit misses she has a second one in store before Claude can react.
Not like Edelgard cant block most of Claude's attacks thanks to that goddam giantic shield she carries.
I think I had her Emperor class confused. She does carry a giant shield as the Flame emprah, though.
Simply put, I believe Edelgard closing the gap and killing Claude more likely than Claude remaining out of her range and killing her from there while avoiding both Counterattack and her magic. If they started more separated I'd give my vote to Claude.
Raging Storm perfectly counters Fallen Star.
If Edelgard's first hit misses she has a second one in store before Claude can react.
I think I had her Emperor class confused. She does carry a giant shield as the Flame emprah, though.
Simply put, I believe Edelgard closing the gap and killing Claude more likely than Claude remaining out of her range and killing her from there while avoiding both Counterattack and her magic. If they started more separated I'd give my vote to Claude.
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- Thread starter
- #69
i forgot about thisRtxthegamer said:
Not neccessarily, people have made things stronger than them all the time in media. The TWSID gave Edelgard a second crest, despite having none, which, by your logic makes the creation stronger than the creator.
There is nothing to say that Sothis didn't make the other crests stronger than hers, she could of used hers as a base and built on it, making the resulting crests more powerful.
However, the lore doesn't support this theory any more than it supports the Crest of Flames being strongest. At this point both theories are headcannon and cannot be stated as fact.
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All Claude has to do is land a single Fallen Star, and that's definitely possible due to his speed, mobility, and range. ((Range is less of a factor since it's 20 meters). Whether or not Edelgard even manages to block it doesn't matter since it's still going to be applied to all attacks for the rest of the phase (or until she stops continuously using raging storm). Claude will just auto dodge all of them. Dodging isn't really gonna be an option for Edelgard since Fallen Star has high accuracy. during this time, it's definitely possible for him to use silence while she is raging storm spamming multiple times in a row.
since counterattack/magic doesn't have insanely high speed like raging storm, Claude can just use Fallen Star here, since he will very likely attack first once again due to his speed.
Anyways, it's not like Claude is incapable of incapping/killing Edelgard since it's implied he fought Edelgard and harmed her during VW. (As seen in his dialogue when he stated he doesn't want to kill her when her health is low).
In short, I'm saying that Claude will get the first hit off which will automatically negate any Raging storm spamming since he will just auto dodge all of them. He also has silence, which completely prevents any magic until he dispels it. From here, he can just keep spamming fallen star.
Edit: also, raging storm isn't so fast in the sense that the opponent can't even react to it. It's just so fast that the opponent can't pull off one of their own attacks. So counterattacking is still an option.
since counterattack/magic doesn't have insanely high speed like raging storm, Claude can just use Fallen Star here, since he will very likely attack first once again due to his speed.
Anyways, it's not like Claude is incapable of incapping/killing Edelgard since it's implied he fought Edelgard and harmed her during VW. (As seen in his dialogue when he stated he doesn't want to kill her when her health is low).
In short, I'm saying that Claude will get the first hit off which will automatically negate any Raging storm spamming since he will just auto dodge all of them. He also has silence, which completely prevents any magic until he dispels it. From here, he can just keep spamming fallen star.
Edit: also, raging storm isn't so fast in the sense that the opponent can't even react to it. It's just so fast that the opponent can't pull off one of their own attacks. So counterattacking is still an option.
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@No Might
since when did I say that the crest(s) you have = how strong you are? There are plenty of examples where crestless individuals are on par with those that have crests. Also, Edelgard had the crest of Seiros naturally.
Good point, it's not stated anywhere in lore as far as I'm concerned.
since when did I say that the crest(s) you have = how strong you are? There are plenty of examples where crestless individuals are on par with those that have crests. Also, Edelgard had the crest of Seiros naturally.
Good point, it's not stated anywhere in lore as far as I'm concerned.
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I am inclined to agree with Rtx here.
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First of a Crests =/= true power, that part is true as even characters with minor crests have shown to be much stronger than those with major crests. And even the likes of Caspar, Leonie, Hubert, and Dedue; despite lacking crests are all portrayed as being incredibly strong. However, plenty of people use the fact that Lysithea has two crests as a reason for why she's considered one of the strongest students. Another thing that's important to note is that Edelgard is always wanting to hide the fact that she has the Crest of Flames because of the fact that she hates the society where people are judged based on their crests. And she also wants to hide how incredibly strong she is.
Also, I agree with PaChi that it appears to be whoever hits first is what's pretty much going to decide the outcome.
Also, I agree with PaChi that it appears to be whoever hits first is what's pretty much going to decide the outcome.
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^ what Medeus said about the crests.
I mean Edelgard actually has to approach to hit Claude, and Claude is quicker so he would probably land the first hit.
I mean Edelgard actually has to approach to hit Claude, and Claude is quicker so he would probably land the first hit.
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It's already been done. resulted in an incon. Don't think this is an incon just yet
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Yea, thats what was done.
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Not really sure what you are asking. Edelgard is her current tier via being able to harm the Immaculate one + being comparable and possibly superior to the other lords.
Idk what this has to do with the incon
Idk what this has to do with the incon
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