Dreams as a Tier 1 Qualifier?

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

I’ve noticed a recurring portrayal in fiction where “dream worlds” are often framed as transpersonal realms - sometimes analogous to Jung’s Collective Unconscious - that generate archetypes, symbols, and the very frameworks defining existence across multiple layers. In these cases, dreams don’t simply arise within reality - they precede it. They act as foundational layers that produce fictional constructs and influence what counts as “real.” This significantly differs from standard Dream Manipulation, which typically affects only the mind or mental space of individual beings.

What I want to propose is the possibility of a “Type 2” Dream Manipulation - one that explicitly controls a metaphysical dream realm as defined by the verse. It’s worth noting that the current Dream Manipulation wording formula remains vague on this point.

Exhibit A) The last line on the Dream Manipulation page states:

“The greatest users of this power can completely control the world of dreams as another plane of reality, toying with it and altering dreams according to their whims, with some even being capable of dragging others into the world of dreams to kill or imprison them within its boundaries.”

Exhibit B) The Reality-Fiction Transcendence page:

“Potential mediums for viewing a cosmology as fiction include: written media (Books or stories), images (Paintings, comics, or movies), data (Simulations or video games), or mental constructs (thoughts or dreams). All of the above would be considered less ‘real’ than the person who views the cosmology as such, and can directly imply qualitative superiority. Note that the medium is usually a representation or container for the fiction on a higher plane and not necessarily the fiction in itself.”

Given this, a character who manipulates a dream realm that governs or exists above both fiction and reality could also qualify as qualitatively superior in such cases.

What I’m asking is whether it’s possible to formally codify this kind Dream Manipulation as its own secondary type (while also addressing common anti-feats, standard qualifiers, relation to R>F standards/Tier 1, and so forth). If such an addition isn’t feasible, would it be possible to add a note on the Dream Manipulation page to explicitly address this distinction?

 

[Napoleondevious]

that just seems to be some sort of conceptual manipulation ?

 

[SweetDao]

that just seems to be some sort of conceptual manipulation ?

Wank

 

[Napoleondevious]

Wank

sybau

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

that just seems to be some sort of conceptual manipulation ?

I talked about like, 4 different things!

 

[StrymULTRA]

Why do I feel like I know the verse in question...

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Why do I feel like I know the verse in question...

certainly not a surreal indie rpgmaker game

 

[BleedingPeach]

Is it for "Sandman", "Inception", "Nightmare On Elm Street" or about Hypnos from Lovecraft?

 

[Osemere]

Is it for "Sandman", "Inception", "Nightmare On Elm Street" or about Hypnos from Lovecraft?

Yes.

And Sonic the Hedgehog, obviously.

Soon everyone will be 1-A…

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

I’m referring to dream worlds that are qualitatively superior in scope and align with R>F and/or Tier 1 standards. By this, I mean controlling such dream realms via Dream Manipulation on a scale that transcends ordinary mental or subjective experiences and exist as metaphysical layers governing or preceding/encompassing both reality and fiction.

My thoughts are that; an alleged qualitatively superior aspect of any given dream world/realm could be a direct qualifier for Tier 1, whereas the R>F framework helps define these dreams as part of the “fiction” category within the ontological hierarchy. I would like to think that if it's one or the other, then such dream worlds would qualify. Of course it's also a matter of whether controlling such dream worlds via Dream Manipulation in scans/material is what's actually described as occurring.

The question is whether it’s feasible/worthwhile for this kind of Dream Manipulation to qualify as a Tier 1 ability with that in mind - as it's own type or even just noted on the page. It would definitely represent a superior subset of Reality Warping.

Moreover, part of why I’m asking is that Reality Warping often serves as an all-encompassing catch-all, doing much of the heavy lifting for what might be more specific powers. I think it's worth formally clarifying distinctions like this.

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

Is it for "Sandman", "Inception", "Nightmare On Elm Street" or about Hypnos from Lovecraft?

Feel like Freddy is the posterchild for standard dream manipulation as far as it's lethal use goes. I do not know if the dreams he controls are akin to the types of dream worlds I've described above. I also know nothing about Inception.

Sandman and Hypnos though, definitely.

edit: I wonder about Shark Boy and Lava Girl sometimes.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

We’re not accepting Tier 1 Touhou, lil bro.

Jokes aside, sounds like a good idea.

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

We’re not accepting Tier 1 Touhou, lil bro.

It's touhover...

 

[Steve1775]

I feel there's a specific baku that benefits from this change...

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Given this, a character who manipulates a dream realm that governs or exists above both fiction and reality could also qualify as qualitatively superior in such cases.

What I’m asking is whether it’s possible to formally codify this kind of Dream Manipulation as its own secondary type (while also addressing common anti-feats, standard qualifiers, relation to R>F standards/Tier 1, and so forth). If such an addition isn’t feasible, would it be possible to add a note on the Dream Manipulation page to explicitly address this distinction?

This would have to be a staff discussion. On that note, a lot of things fall under a larger broader category. So, insofar, as verses go unless it’s only specific to some sort of dream hierarchy then most of what you're suggesting be whisked away in conceptual manipulation.

There also is another thread going on for a third type of Beyond-Dimensional Existence which if accepted then this topic can work with it.

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

This would have to be a staff discussion. On that note, a lot of things fall under a larger broader category. So, insofar, as verses go unless it’s only specific to some sort of dream hierarchy then most of what you're suggesting be whisked away in conceptual manipulation.

I see. I'll keep this in mind then.

There also is another thread going on for a third type of Beyond-Dimensional Existence which if accepted then this topic can work with it.

Oh wow. This actually covers what I was referring to in a much more general sense.